Do women really have that many options?

[GoodOnPaper]

If options imply a choice, then men have options too, in the beginning--they CHOOSE whether or not to approach a woman, based on whatever criteria they have.

 

My criterion was that the woman show some sign . . . any sign . . . of approachability. Turned out this was extremely rare. When I think of "having options" as a guy, I think of being able to go out on any random evening to a bar/party/other social gathering and having my attention be reciprocated by at least one woman via getting a phone number, having a semi-flirtatious conversion, etc. I was never really able to pull this off.

[Fondue]

What about less attractive women? Do you think they have more options than less attractive men?

 

 

Or, put another way: tell us- when you say women have more options- are you thinking about all women, or just the women you think are hot?

Absolutely all women.

 

Like I said before, if you put two equally attractive (or in this case, unattractive) people and see which gender gets more dates, it'd be women. I think this is absolutely true. But of course this is mostly because many men just want sex and will try to get it from any women possible, but that's a different story...

[jane100]

Absolutely women have more options. I am 23, and women I know between the age of 18-35 who are halfway decent are approached by guys. On the other hand I know guys in that age range who are perpetually single,

 

Are approached by what kind of guys, not just looks, but in terms of character and integrity and intelligence? You left that part out, the most important part out (sigh).

 

You say some men you know that age group are perpetually single but you don't say anything positive about them in any department.

[GoodOnPaper]

Put another way - are these guys who struggle on par with the women who have it easy? Are they in the same category when it comes to confidence, looks, social skills? Are we comparing apples with apples or apples with oranges?

 

My perception is that it's the upper echelon guys and the upper echelon women who are on par with one another. The gap widens dramatically when considering average and below-average looking men and women, with the latter getting much more attention.

[NoMagicBullet]

I feel like when people talk about "Women having many options", the women they have in mind are hot, economically secure, healthy and happy women, not the whole population of women. In other words, it would go something like : "90% of men feel that 10% of women have many options".

 

It's this. It's men who say women have all the options and all the power -- I NEVER hear women talking about having all these options -- but men are only thinking of the hot women who really do have lots of options. 90% of the male population is chasing that 10% of the female population anyway. But given that society -- and I include men & women when I say society -- ties up nearly all of a woman's value in physical attractiveness, it's as if the attractive females are allowed to have the title of "woman" and all the other females might as well be invisible; from that messed up perspective, then the only "real" women are the attractive ones and they have many options.

 

I'll admit I'm biased: my options are usually around zero, and I'm extra cynical today.

[jane100]

But of course this is mostly because many men just want sex and will try to get it from any women possible, but that's a different story...

 

The OP was talking about women's general social, sexual and romantic options, not narrow sexual preferences/options of men of which (since you are speaking as a man and an expert on the subject) you speak with some authority on the narrowness of i.e. any woman will do.

[Kamille]

 

 

 

 

 

While a woman may have to say no no no for a few months... but if she decides to she can say yes and go on a date. Hence she chooses to be dateless while the man is rejected into being dateless.

 

What is missing from this is the attempts these women make to try and ensnare the men they do find attractive. Again - men have more agency in our culture as to who they get to ask out. That also explains why they strike out more often. But a part of me feels like striking out too often is a sign that a guy is a) not reading the signs right and b) not paying enough attention to compatibility.

 

Rejecting someone sucks. Believe me - I put mechanisms in place so that I don't lead guys on.

 

That you all would react this way does not surprise me I have poll data.

http://www.girlsaskguys.com/Dating-Questions/382333-true-or-false--women-have-to-date-a-lot-of-losers.html

True or false

 

Women have to date allot of losers to find a good man.

 

Men have to ask out allot of women just to find a date.

 

Current Poll Results Girls Guys All

A: True 100 86 186 (59%)

B: False 90 41 131 (41%)

 

Not to belittle the problems of women who don't get asked out that often. They have the option of asking a man out. They can be proactive. However a man cannot be passive and get a woman.

 

I couldn't access the data without creating a membership... Let me see if I get this straight: 86 girls feel the statement is true vs 186 guys?

[Mrlonelyone]

How is someone supposed to know character, integrity and intelligence at first sight?

 

One can only know that by going on a date. Only by going on a date can one figure that out. Any woman who says she only accept dates from men who have character and integrity is a liar. Unless they only accept dates from friends or people they know in a non-romantic capacity.

[Mrlonelyone]

What is missing from this is the attempts these women make to try and ensnare the men they do find attractive. Again - men have more agency in our culture as to who they get to ask out. That also explains why they strike out more often. But a part of me feels like striking out too often is a sign that a guy is a) not reading the signs right and b) not paying enough attention to compatibility.

 

Rejecting someone sucks. Believe me - I put mechanisms in place so that I don't lead guys on.

 

 

 

I couldn't access the data without creating a membership... Let me see if I get this straight: 86 girls feel the statement is true vs 186 guys?

Let me reformat the table for you.

 

Current Poll Results Girls Guys All

A: True 100 86 186 (59%)

B: False 90 41 131 (41%)

 

186 total voted true

 

131 total voted false.

 

100 girls voted true

 

90 girls voted false.

 

About half of women see that a man has to ask out allot of women just to get a date...while a woman goes on allot of dates just to find a quality man.

 

 

86 guys voted true

 

41 guys voted false.

 

1/3 of guys disagreed.

 

Understand.

 

It's as the old saying goes "beggars cannot be choosers". Average and below average men who aren't rich are certainly at least asking allot if not begging.

[MarlyStar]

I think it depends what you are looking for. If I'm looking for sex, as a woman I have many more options than most men. If I wanted sex with a different man every night, I could obtain without much trouble at all.

 

If I want a relationship, I'm going to have fewer options than a man. There are more available women at age 30 than men. A higher percentage of men die early, a higher percentage of men are homosexual, a higher percentage of men are addicted, a higher percentage of men are incarcerated, a higher percentage of men just plain don't want a relationship.

 

And it's true a single women with smaller children will have fewer options than a single man with small children. But this is evened out by men who are financially strapped. A financially strapped woman will have more options than a financially strapped man (unless she has children).

 

Unfortunately, unattractive people of both sexes have fewer options. Women care less about looks so men have an edge here, however, some men are so absolutely grubby looking and clueless as to basic physical presentation that more are unattractive than they need to be and if they'd just look as clean as they really are, they'd attract more women. Not everyone can carry off the scruffy unshaven look like Brad Pitt.

 

Shy, bookish, nerdy people have fewer options than extroverts, man or woman.

 

If it's a relationship you are looking for, I'd say men have more options; if it's sex, definitely women.

[Kamille]

How is someone supposed to know character, integrity and intelligence at first sight?

 

One can only know that by going on a date. Only by going on a date can one figure that out. Any woman who says she only accept dates from men who have character and integrity is a liar. Unless they only accept dates from friends or people they know in a non-romantic capacity.

 

I feel like we've had this discussion before. I agree to go out on a date with a guy because I have a "gut" feeling about who he is. Usually it's because I like what I would call is aura, and rarely am I ever wrong. I think many people do this: we read people's personalities really quickly. But as I said in a previous post, usually, I will go on a date with a guy with whom I have at least minimally have had some form of interactions other than: "hey, you're hot, wanna go out some time?". Usually it starts innocuously enough, we'll share a few laugh and end the conversation with: "we should do this again sometime. Could I get your number?" In that interaction, I can assure you that if I was into the guy, I let him know so.

 

That's the issue I have with the number's game. Guys who apply it usually struggle to be in the moment and fail to pay attention to the signs I might be giving out. They're more focused on "scoring" than on figuring if we might actually have a vibe together.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think it's 13 one way, a baker's dozen the other. In other words men and women have equally limited options. But, it's easier to perceive one gender or the other as having more options.

 

I don't like debates over who "chooses" more, the guy who approaches women or the women who wait to be approached. I feel like it's something Socrates or Plato would have had fun with.

[Kamille]

I think it depends what you are looking for. If I'm looking for sex, as a woman I have many more options than most men. If I wanted sex with a different man every night, I could obtain without much trouble at all.

 

If I want a relationship, I'm going to have fewer options than a man. There are more available women at age 30 than men. A higher percentage of men die early, a higher percentage of men are homosexual, a higher percentage of men are addicted, a higher percentage of men are incarcerated, a higher percentage of men just plain don't want a relationship.

 

And it's true a single women with smaller children will have fewer options than a single man with small children. But this is evened out by men who are financially strapped. A financially strapped woman will have more options than a financially strapped man (unless she has children).

 

Unfortunately, unattractive people of both sexes have fewer options. Women care less about looks so men have an edge here, however, some men are so absolutely grubby looking and clueless as to basic physical presentation that more are unattractive than they need to be and if they'd just look as clean as they really are, they'd attract more women. Not everyone can carry off the scruffy unshaven look like Brad Pitt.

 

Shy, bookish, nerdy people have fewer options than extroverts, man or woman.

 

If it's a relationship you are looking for, I'd say men have more options; if it's sex, definitely women.

 

Those are all very good points Marlystar, especially about what one might be looking for.

 

I still have to wonder if it would really be that easy for me to just go out and have sex. Never tried it. Never plan to. I'm way too much of a romantic for that.

[Mrlonelyone]

His "Aura" Aura..

 

I have never discussed Aura's with anyone. I hear someone say what you say and I hear someone who makes assumptions and snap judgements based on stereotypes and is giving it a pretty name.

 

I wonder what Aura Thomas Jefferson saw around Sally Hemmings and all the other people with dark skin that he screwed!

 

I suppose that when I walk by a white woman while getting on an elevator, not even thinking about her, and she clutches her purse she's reading the Aura of a mugger/rapist. (when I have no need for anything she has.) "Aura".

 

I suppose that when I tell someone I am a scientist and they equate me with Sheldon from the big bang theory... they are reading my Aura.

 

Give me a break.

[Kamille]

I think it's 13 one way, a baker's dozen the other. In other words men and women have equally limited options. But, it's easier to perceive one gender or the other as having more options.

 

I don't like debates over who "chooses" more, the guy who approaches women or the women who wait to be approached. I feel like it's something Socrates or Plato would have had fun with.

 

 

The philosophical question of our times. WWSS? (What would Socrates say?)

[TouchedByViolet]

Again, do you think this is true for all women? Do you think all women get approached all the time?

 

Put another way - are these guys who struggle on par with the women who have it easy? Are they in the same category when it comes to confidence, looks, social skills? Are we comparing apples with apples or apples with oranges?

 

No this is not true for all women. I had a wonderful neighbor who had difficulty getting into a relationship. She had a unique personality and rarely felt interested in most men mentally. Physical attraction was not that big of a deal to her. She was sweet, smart, and made lots of tasty food for me and my roomies.

 

I realize there are women who face challenges in meeting a quality man and don't mean to devalue there struggle.

 

Now I speak in generalities when I say this, a half way decent lady who is self sufficient, has a job, doesn't have major baggage, stays in shape, and isn't psycho will have more options than the exact same qualities being present in a man. Essentially holding ALL variables constant except gender women tend to have a slight upper hand.

 

Are approached by what kind of guys, not just looks, but in terms of character and integrity and intelligence? You left that part out, the most important part out (sigh).

 

You say some men you know that age group are perpetually single but you don't say anything positive about them in any department.

 

Well character and integrity don't show their true colors for a long time... most people are either interested or not before absolutely knowing anyones integrity. Intelligence can be a big factor for some women, and it seems being intelligent is becoming more and more socially accepted as Hot. There are different types and most women are attracted to social intelligence (primarily), followed by artistic intelligence and lastly scientific intelligence.

 

I don't mean to get into details about my friends and acquaintances. I just mean to say that the average male 20-30 has fewer options and the same female. All variable being held constant.

[tigressA]

That's the issue I have with the number's game. Guys who apply it usually struggle to be in the moment and fail to pay attention to the signs I might be giving out. They're more focused on "scoring" than on figuring if we might actually have a vibe together.

 

Exactly. I get the vibe that he's approached 20 other women before me, and that if I say "No thanks" he'll approach 20 more women after me.

 

I also agree with what MarlyStar said about what you're looking for. When I was just looking to date around and have casual flings, I had hit the jackpot. When I started stating up-front that I wanted a relationship, my options dwindled down to virtually nothing.

[carhill]

I'll add my anecdote, as I saw my exW today to give her the pink slip to her car so she could sell it. She's 52, 5'1" and about 170 and 'average'. I've seen pictures (from her dead computer which she gave me to recover and sell) of her with two different men and our mutual friends, indicating substantial mutual interest and know for a fact that she's been living with a guy (in the home I helped her buy) since shortly after we divorced, which was about five months ago.

 

Myself, in the nearly two years we've been separated, have approached just short of twenty women. The majority, about a dozen, were married or attached, the rest, save for two, either rejected me outright or 'friendzoned' me, and I dated the two remaining ladies for a month or so.

 

One anecdote from a 50+ average guy who gets around the world a fair amount. YMMV, of course.

 

On a markedly different note, my somewhat well-known LS 'friend', in the two weeks after my visit in December, dated at least four men that I'm aware of, and she showed me her dating profile inbox which had, IIRC, 61 e-mails sitting in it waiting for her to peruse and/or act upon. So, in two weeks, she dated more than I did in two years. That right off a fresh divorce and with two children living with her.

 

I've heard the laments of women for decades about the lack of quality men; IOW, their 'options'. Now I just laugh and am happy they feel the way they do. More time for my cat and my home improvement projects.

 

BTW, my exW checked out the master bath today while here. Guess she was wondering how my 'options' have been going. LOL...

[Kamille]

His "Aura" Aura..

 

I have never discussed Aura's with anyone. I hear someone say what you say and I hear someone who makes assumptions and snap judgements based on stereotypes and is giving it a pretty name.

 

I wonder what Aura Thomas Jefferson saw around Sally Hemmings and all the other people with dark skin that he screwed!

 

I suppose that when I walk by a white woman while getting on an elevator, not even thinking about her, and she clutches her purse she's reading the Aura of a mugger/rapist. (when I have no need for anything she has.) "Aura".

 

I suppose that when I tell someone I am a scientist and they equate me with Sheldon from the big bang theory... they are reading my Aura.

 

Give me a break.

 

Nope - do not confuse aura with stereotype. Aura is something about the feel of a person, not judgements based on set attributes.

 

What drew me to my bf was his smile, the way he seemed confident and comfortable. He seemed to be having a food time. (All this in turn made me confident enough to flash a smile his way - I figured he looked nice and wouldn't act like a jerk if he wasn't into me). We started talking and the whole time he was gentle, attentive, asked questions, paid attention to what I was saying. He made me laugh. Aura. My first impression of him was absolutely right: he is gentle, considerate and attentive. I knew all this about him within 30 minutes of talking to him. (Granted, I think I'm pretty good judge of character. Only been wrong once in my whole dating life).

 

Which makes me wonder --- could people who strike out so often be striking out for the simple reason that they can't read other people? Or is that not even important when approaching a woman?

[GoodOnPaper]

If it's a relationship you are looking for, I'd say men have more options; if it's sex, definitely women.

 

But you have to get through the attraction phase or there will be no relationship. Therefore, "having options" is only meaningful when referring to attraction. To me, it seemed that most women had several potentials to choose from -- that's having options.

[Mrlonelyone]

Carhill sounds like a good normal reasonable man who should not be alone. He asked out 20 women over two years and got two yes's (or the about 1/10 that I cited earlier)

 

He's not a player... but he had to play the numbers game to get those two dates. Do you see what I meant? A man has to ask out allot of women just to find women who are single, and available, and interested in a date with him.

[Mrlonelyone]

"Which makes me wonder --- could people who strike out so often be striking out for the simple reason that they can't read other people? Or is that not even important when approaching a woman?"

 

Unless you are psychic how can you know if a woman will say yes to a date or not?

[Kamille]

"Which makes me wonder --- could people who strike out so often be striking out for the simple reason that they can't read other people? Or is that not even important when approaching a woman?"

 

Unless you are psychic how can you know if a woman will say yes to a date or not?

 

She laughs at your jokes

 

Leans in

 

Flips her hair

 

 

Asks questions

 

Looks at your lips

 

Touches your arms- upper back.

[Mrlonelyone]

She laughs at your jokes

 

Leans in

 

Flips her hair

 

 

Asks questions

 

Looks at your lips

 

Touches your arms- upper back.

Every single woman I have ever asked for a date has done all of that.

 

In fact I asked a young woman at my college for a date just wednesday. Well first I asked for her phone number.. she gave me her email. I asked for the date via email. I have heard nothing back and don't expect to.

 

She did everything on your list.

[tigressA]

What I'm getting from this thread is that men have virtually no standards when it comes to who to approach and are whiny about women (nothing more than interchangeable living dolls ) supposedly having all the power in the world. Perhaps we should, since you guys don't want to do anything to wrestle it away from us.