Do women really have that many options?

[Titania22]

None of the LTR's started with a date?

 

BTW I used date in quotation marks because I'm counting anything where I spent time with a girl who wasn't strictly a friend, and we did something together, as a date.

 

For example, something like meeting up with somebody, getting lunch then going clothes shopping qualifies as a date.

 

Now, recalculate your total

 

 

Ok well my first relationship started when I was in this guys apartment for a couple on minutes (no details), and then later ran into him and his friend and he remembered seeing me in his apartment, and he invited me to join tge 2 of them, because we happened to be going to the same place for dinner anyway, I mentioned I needed to find a place to stay and he invited to stay at his place for $10/night (cheaper then the hostel), so while i was staying there things happened.

 

My 2nd relationship started because my daughter and his daughter were frineds and doing play dates back and forth, and we got to talking (like friendship developing), and one weekend I had my kids and he didn't have his, but came over anyway to watch movies (which I thought was weird because he actually had a kid free weekend, he should be out having a life), so after the kids were asleep, i jumped him. It all moved very quickly after that.

 

So I don't know if any of that constitutes having a date or not.

[phineas]

I am a very attractive 27 year old (although I look 21) as are some of my friends. We have the most difficult time in the dating world I can't even imagine how hard it is for older, less attractive women. I am interested in maybe 1 out of every 200 men in my area. I am not picky by choice, I simply "feel it" with very few men. Technically men have more options---If men can go to a club, they have the option of approaching ANY women that they like, they just have to hope that she responds. However if you are going on the basis that women have to wait for guys to approach them, then we only have MAYBE a couple of options every time we go out and usually they are NOT anyone I am interested in. OR mostly no one approaches us and therefore we have ZERO options. So guys essentially have an entire club or bar full of options and women have maybe one or two if shes lucky...yea I dont see how guys think women have more options...

 

so you've had 200 men approach you recently & you were only attracted to one of them?

 

If hot women are standing by themselves in a club & no guys are approaching one of two things is going on.

 

Your not that hot or you all have your bitch faces on.

Sorry, but that's the only time Me & my friends didn't approach a group of "hot" women in a club.

[Els]

OK, lets get this settled once and for all.

 

How many men have you gone on at least one date with?

 

How many relationships have you had?

 

I bet you, that your numbers and those of other women will be higher than 90% of the men here.

 

I've had about nine first "dates" and zero relationships. I'm 29.

 

I think the key word here is '90% of the men HERE'. With all due respect, the majority of men in relationships simply do not post here, whereas women still do. Relationship forums typically attract women more so than men, and the men who do venture on here are usually single men. In other words, not an unbiased sample.

 

IRL, what I have noticed is that my average-looking, geeky and not-very-social male friends tend to have had more relationships than my average-looking, homely and quiet female friends. Considering the fact that both sides are probably in the same 'league', stereotypically speaking (ugh how I hate that word), I would actually think that the men were at less of a disadvantage. Hot, party-animal women probably have more options than hot, party-animal men though.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I wonder what exactly the difference between your average looking and geeky friends, and me, is. Because I haven't had that experience.

 

I've noticed average looking and geeky girls ending up in relationships where the man is very outgoing and very good looking. While the geeky men all sit at home, playing video games and bitching about players and why women don't like nice guys.

[Paradise384]

To clarify I said IF you are going on the basis that men approach women and women do not do the approaching because it seems like that is the scenerio that most people on here are referring to. Although I know that a woman approaching a man usually is not a good idea-men are flattered at first but ultimately if they are not the persuers they get bored- but can occassionally work out.

[Paradise384]

No I have not had 200 men approach me hence why I said not that many guys come up to us at clubs and bars. I am saying if you stuck 200 guys in a room I would probably only be interested in a few. You know what though, you just made me realize maybe we arent getting approached because 95% of the time we are there with our guy friends. Do you think standing alone would be a lot more approachable?

[Els]

I wonder what exactly the difference between your average looking and geeky friends, and me, is. Because I haven't had that experience.

 

I've noticed average looking and geeky girls ending up in relationships where the man is very outgoing and very good looking. While the geeky men all sit at home, playing video games and bitching about players and why women don't like nice guys.

 

Geeky girls do if they get involved in predominantly male activities, as how I do.

 

Homely, shy, average-looking girls who don't stand out in any way don't. In that way, they are the female counterparts of the male geek. I have plenty of female friends who are extremely nice, kind, non-dramatic, shy, and homely girls... and none of them have ever had a bf. I personally think the guys around them are idiots for chasing the 'hot' ones and overlooking them, because I think they would be incredible gfs for a compatible guy.

[somedude81]

Geeky girls do if they get involved in predominantly male activities, as how I do.

 

Homely, shy, average-looking girls who don't stand out in any way don't. In that way, they are the female counterparts of the male geek. I have plenty of female friends who are extremely nice, kind, non-dramatic, shy, and homely girls... and none of them have ever had a bf. I personally think the guys around them are idiots for chasing the 'hot' ones and overlooking them, because I think they would be incredible gfs for a compatible guy.

Being average looking, and shy really is the issue.

 

If a girl doesn't give a guy any signals or flirt, he's going to assume that she isn't interested. I'm not going to spend time trying to figure out if she's just shy. And even then she might still be, not interested.

 

The only people that can have dating success while being shy are the pretty people. Even then a shy pretty girl will have a lot more chances then a shy really good looking dude.

 

An average looking girl that's never had a BF, needs to put herself out there. Flirt, let guys know that it's ok to talk to them. Find ways to let guys know that she is single without seeming desperate.

 

It really isn't hard for girls.

[Titania22]

None of the LTR's started with a date?

 

BTW I used date in quotation marks because I'm counting anything where I spent time with a girl who wasn't strictly a friend, and we did something together, as a date.

 

For example, something like meeting up with somebody, getting lunch then going clothes shopping qualifies as a date.

 

Now, recalculate your total

 

I answered your question and you never responded. What gives?

[Els]

Being average looking, and shy really is the issue.

 

If a girl doesn't give a guy any signals or flirt, he's going to assume that she isn't interested. I'm not going to spend time trying to figure out if she's just shy. And even then she might still be, not interested.

 

The only people that can have dating success while being shy are the pretty people. Even then a shy pretty girl will have a lot more chances then a shy really good looking dude.

 

An average looking girl that's never had a BF, needs to put herself out there. Flirt, let guys know that it's ok to talk to them. Find ways to let guys know that she is single without seeming desperate.

 

It really isn't hard for girls.

 

How does this not apply to guys again? Being average-looking and socially-awkward is also the issue, in most cases.

 

Also, an average-looking guy who's good at the social graces has more chances than an average-looking girl who is. So really, it's the same thing. Stop thinking you're disadvantaged. You're not.

[Eternal Sunshine]

So Titania, both of your LTRs started with sex?

[Titania22]

So Titania, both of your LTRs started with sex?

 

I guess you could say that, but I think the first one started more with 4days of causing intense sexual frustration and then sex. And the 2nd one was started with friendship amd then sex.

[somedude81]

I answered your question and you never responded. What gives?

That's because your answers were "interesting." I'd consider the movie thing a date, the other one, I'm not so sure. But you did go on dates with them later, yes?

 

How does this not apply to guys again? Being average-looking and socially-awkward is also the issue, in most cases.

 

Also, an average-looking guy who's good at the social graces has more chances than an average-looking girl who is. So really, it's the same thing. Stop thinking you're disadvantaged. You're not.

Socially awkward, average looking guys have about a near zero percent chance of going on dates and or sleeping with women. Those are the men who are near 30 or over and are still virgins or may have had sex a handful of times in their life.

 

That simply does not happen to women.

 

Every once in a while, a guy will take interest in a girl as long as she is at least average. It's her choice to accept or not. If she put in a tiny bit of effort into trying to get men to notice her, her odds will increase exponentially.

 

Also, an average-looking guy who's good at the social graces has more chances than an average-looking girl who is.

Do you really believe that?

 

An average looking girl whose good at flirting and chatting up guys can have them jumping through hoops in no time. Oh wait, those guys aren't quality so they don't count.

 

Stop thinking you're disadvantaged. You're not.

I'd love to agree with you but reality doesn't.

 

If you looked at my previous post, I've had about 9 first dates; from 22-29. That averages out to 1.3 dates a year. Out of all those girls, two agreed to a second date. After a couple of weeks, they dropped me. The other girls friendzoned me.

 

If that isn't a sign of being disadvantaged, I don't know what is.

 

If I were a woman with roughly the same level of attractiveness and personality that number would be much higher. Or I might actually be married. Instead of still trying to get my first relationship

[Els]

*shrugs* Evidently, there are no randomized controlled trials on this, so as my experience completely disagrees with yours, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

As I said before, I know several wonderful, but shy and average-looking girls who have never had a relationship. Most of them are in their late 20s. If YOU are disadvantaged, what are they? Sure, they may have something horribly unattractive about them that I'm unaware about, but chances are you do as well.

 

I also know several average-looking, socially awkward and otherwise unremarkable guys who have had relationships or are in them. I am willing to accept that my sample base may just be different from yours, IF you realize that your experiences are not the end all be all either. YOUR experiences do not stand for all of humanity.

 

And stop talking about sex. We're talking relationships here. Of course women have a higher chance of getting sex. We also have a higher chance of getting pregnant from sex and are called sluts if we have lots of it, as opposed to a 'cool stud', so that really balances it out.

[somedude81]

As I said before, I know several wonderful, but shy and average-looking girls who have never had a relationship. Most of them are in their late 20s. If YOU are disadvantaged, what are they?

I'm wondering if they even want to be in a relationship. And then, what have they done to try and get one? How do they react to men that talk to them?

I also know several average-looking, socially awkward and otherwise unremarkable guys who have had relationships or are in them. I am willing to accept that my sample base may just be different from yours, IF you realize that your experiences are not the end all be all either. YOUR experiences do not stand for all of humanity.

Yes our experiences are different. Though the key is, that you are seeing things from a third person perspective so it's not that big of a deal to you.

 

I'm talking about my life events which is of course a huge deal to me. It should be obvious that this is an issue I am very passionate about. To me, my experiences are the only ones that matter. This is my life.

 

And stop talking about sex. We're talking relationships here. Of course women have a higher chance of getting sex. We also have a higher chance of getting pregnant from sex and are called sluts if we have lots of it, as opposed to a 'cool stud', so that really balances it out.

I mentioned sex once.

 

But thank you for that because it just made me realize something. If one doesn't mind the source, it's easier for both women and men to get sex than a relationship.

 

Out of all the women I've slept with, I wouldn't consider having a relationship with any one of them, and I know they all felt the same way about me.

 

And please don't even try to tell me that women don't enjoy sex.

 

One night stands can also turn into relationships.

[spackle]

It is entirely possible to be an attractive, intelligent woman and have zero options, depending on circumstances - e.g. children, health issues, money, support, cultural limitations/stereotypes, and relationship issues and so forth.

 

I speak from experience.

 

I think its very unusal for a man to have a similarly restricted role (unless a man is a single father bringing up children entirely on his own - or in a seriously bad state of health). Most men have lots of options IMO, in term of independence, going out, choosing prospective dates and lovers, being free and socially busy. Whether they take advantage of this, or are interested in this, is another question, some men have poor social skills.

 

E.g. My last boyfriend used to go out all the time and spend busy times in bars with other musicians, amongst other things. There were no women around at all I noticed - it would just seem odd for a woman to hang out by herself in this environment. Less options in other words.

 

However, I do believe if a woman is free, economically secure, healthy and happy, she has a lot of options, more power to her. But I think such a woman is in a relative minority.

 

This is true, If you see a lone woman walk in to a bar or pub won't most of us assume she's meeting someone. If no one shows we think she's been stood-up? Not that she might be thirsty. Guys will just chat to other men they don't know in bars if I do it it looks like I'm trying to pick them up.

[Els]

I'm wondering if they even want to be in a relationship. And then, what have they done to try and get one? How do they react to men that talk to them?

 

Fair enough. I think they would be thrilled to have relationships with similarly average-looking men who are as good, considerate and loving as they are. But I agree that I cannot know every detail of their lives.

 

Yes our experiences are different. Though the key is, that you are seeing things from a third person perspective so it's not that big of a deal to you.

Again, fair enough. I have indeed mentioned that I think I have been rather lucky where relationships were concerned, but even that is debatable - if you, for instance, were willing to wait 2 years long distance for someone as I did, you might find yourself in a fulfilling relationship as well, but I digress. This issue may not concern me personally, but it doesn't make it any less viable a perspective.

 

Anyhow, you are right in that I cannot talk about the girls who do not have an R, but I can certainly talk about the guys I know who do have them. One of them is an overweight guy attending some course in a community college (read: people with less than average grades go there) who spends 8 hours a day in a cybercafe, and goes everywhere in sloppy shorts, huge tee and slippers. He is dating a coursemate of mine (we go to a relatively prestigious university, read: good grades) who is quite pretty (not excessively hot, but spends a good chunk of time with her appearance, dresses well and does her hair, slim, etc), nice, and intelligent.

 

Another one also spends 8 hours a day in a cybercafe, smells funny more often than not and failed his medical course three times. He is with a brilliant girl in the same course who, again, spends time on her appearance, tries to coach him, and otherwise seems like a very good person.

 

It goes on and on. So no, I'm afraid I can't really see how the average or below average guys around me are having much trouble with dating.

 

I'm talking about my life events which is of course a huge deal to me. It should be obvious that this is an issue I am very passionate about. To me, my experiences are the only ones that matter. This is my life.

Indeed. But you are talking as if they should be a fact for everyone else.

 

But thank you for that because it just made me realize something. If one doesn't mind the source, it's easier for both women and men to get sex than a relationship.

 

Out of all the women I've slept with, I wouldn't consider having a relationship with any one of them, and I know they all felt the same way about me.

 

And please don't even try to tell me that women don't enjoy sex.

I agree completely with this but why is it even relevant?

 

One night stands can also turn into relationships.

Probably about as rare as being accepted as an SO after being friendzoned. Edited March 12, 2011 by Elswyth

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

This is true, If you see a lone woman walk in to a bar or pub won't most of us assume she's meeting someone. If no one shows we think she's been stood-up? Not that she might be thirsty. Guys will just chat to other men they don't know in bars if I do it it looks like I'm trying to pick them up.

 

I don't even like bars.

 

Reasons

1. It's crowded
   
2. It's loud
   
3. Women are generally not receptive to the "nerdy, quiet, and introverted" type
   
4. It's expensive (if I wanted to get a beer cheap, I'd drink at home!)
   
5. I never get any interest
   

Those 5 reasons are enough to keep me out of a bar, unless it's attached to a music club where I'm seeing a live band that I enjoy. And even then, when I'm surrounded by fans of the same band, the girls ignore me.

[Titania22]

That's because your answers were "interesting." I'd consider the movie thing a date, the other one, I'm not so sure. But you did go on dates with them later, yes?

 

 

I guess. It's hard for me to think in terms of dates when you are already living with someone.

 

So if my experiences were any indication (not saying they are at all), then you need to convince some girl to move in with you, and then you can take her out on dates.

[EasyHeart]

I just see a lot of whining and self-pity in this thread.

 

For those of you men who think you're "disadvantaged" with respect to women, what exactly do you want? To you want us to feel sorry for you? Do you want the federal government to start a program to get you dates? Or do you just want an excuse to stay home and play video games?

 

If you're not getting any dates, then you're doing something wrong. Figure out what mistakes you're making and FIX THEM, instead of sitting home at your computer whining about how unfair life is.

[EasyHeart]

Women have the power over men as far as dating and relationships are concerned. They are the gatekeepers.

 

I don't know if this equals more options.

Very true. But men have the power of initiation, so I think it balances out.

[spackle]

I don't even like bars.

 

Reasons

 

1. It's crowded
   
2. It's loud
   
3. Women are generally not receptive to the "nerdy, quiet, and introverted" type
   
4. It's expensive (if I wanted to get a beer cheap, I'd drink at home!)
   
5. I never get any interest
   

Those 5 reasons are enough to keep me out of a bar, unless it's attached to a music club where I'm seeing a live band that I enjoy. And even then, when I'm surrounded by fans of the same band, the girls ignore me.

 

depends, I'm not talking those kinds of bars/pubs.

chatting to girls at gigs should be a given...unless she's been dragged there by her bf.

[jane100]

I just see a lot of whining and self-pity in this thread.

 

For those of you men who think you're "disadvantaged" with respect to women, what exactly do you want? To you want us to feel sorry for you? Do you want the federal government to start a program to get you dates? Or do you just want an excuse to stay home and play video games?

 

If you're not getting any dates, then you're doing something wrong. Figure out what mistakes you're making and FIX THEM, instead of sitting home at your computer whining about how unfair life is.

 

 

I honestly couldn't read the whole of this thread as I knew the whining and self-pitying guys who have never had relationships or sex or any experience of real women at all outside their mothers and the internet would start ramping up the volume.

 

So, great post to point this out, thank you.

 

The only problem with the OP is that she asks about women's options but doesn't spell out options for what. I suppose if a woman just wanted to have sex with anybody she could stand on a street corner with a placard saying "free sex" and she would have lots of options for, well "free sex". If it came down to it, would men do this, I dunno?

 

But if we are talking about a "full life" which includes lots of things, not just relationships or dating, then that is a long-standing question that lots of women will be able to relate to, as having more limited choices.

 

For the jocks and adolescent males on LS, they will simply view it as options for sex so when threads like this take off, I just ignore them generally.

[jane100]

Very true. But men have the power of initiation, so I think it balances out.

 

Very true. Not quite sure it balances out though ....

[jane100]

Well there really isn't any power in that

 

I think though what you mean is maybe, since we initiate we have the ability to approach any woman we like and as many as we like.

 

While women who are passive and waits for the guy to make the move, can only choose between the men who approach them.

 

They might not get approached by the guy they want, while we as men can choose to only approach women who we are intrested in.

 

Like for example.

 

A woman might get approached by 20 different men. And all of them are either players, drunks, losers, weirdos or guys just looking for a one night stand.

 

But a man can approach 20 different women, all of whom are of intrest to the him. And 1 of them might say yes. So then the guy has "succeded" better than the woman.

 

Exactly my thoughts and I could not have put it better. Not only that but she has got to go through the process (passively) of differentiating between all these guys and their intentions.