I dont know if Im in an abusive relationship or not.

[That_girl]

Hi there,

 

I have been a dating a man for a while now and although I do think Im in love with him. Im unsure whether or not im in a controlling, abusive relationship.

Some of my more recent posts describe the situation im in at the moment. Basically, he cheated at the beginning of our relationship, i broke up with him, he did everything in his power to get me back and eventually I went back.

 

All of my friends say he has issues with control, but I dont see it. I was in a physically abusive relationship when I was about 18. Now that Im 25, Im still having trouble determining if this man has the potential to abuse me at some point.

 

The other day we got into an argument, and he punched the inside of his hand with his fist- HARD. It did startle me, but I dont think that he would actually punch ME. He also got into a physical altercation with some guys at a nightclub on the weekend because one of them ACCIDENTALLY pushed me. It didnt hurt at all, and the guy apologized, but my boyfriend proceeded to start an argument even after I begged him not to. He also hits himself a lot jokingly, but I find it weird more than scary.

 

Also, this is slowing turning into an emotionally abusive relationship on both parts. I often wonder whether he will cheat again, which of course leads to arguments.

 

And he definitely makes it seem like he is dissatisfied with me. I dont want to hang out with his friends enough, I dont love him enough, I dont want to see his family enough, I dont treat him as a priority enough, etc.

 

He does alot for me. Some might say too much. Like if I have to go to the doctor, he will call for me and make the appointment if Im at work or busy. He even cleans my shoes for me or the spot on my dress for example if Im late for work. Apparently, this is a warning sign for future bad behaviour....in that he is tryin gto make me feel totally dependent on him so that Ill be less likely to leave. Its hard to imagine that those are his intentions when he is doing all of these nice things, but I seen him bring up these things later when he is arguing about how little I do for him.

 

I dont know what to do. I love this man. I want things to work out because he is so much fun to be with and is incredibly caring and thoughtful. But alot of the time I feel insecure and I have to wonder if what my friends are saying is true, and that one day he will try to control my every move and may even physically harm me. I dont want to let him go on the assumption that this is going to happen.

[tinktronik]

Sounds like your BF has some anger management issues, and yes that is a sign to a potentially abusive relationship between the two of you.

[kooki]

Hey Girl,

I would say by what you state, definitely some red flags that point to an emotionally abusive relationship. Yes, you are in one!

1. He has violent tendencies, I would watch out.

2. He likes to do those extra nice things for you so that later, when he abuses you and you refuse something, he can MAKE you feel GUILTY! Very manipulative on his end. My ex. used to do that all the time and later would accuse me of not being appreciative when I would voice my concerns about his bad behavior. That's SETTING you UP! Don't fall for it girl.

Please, don't waste time on this man. I wasted a year. I know we all want love, but not at the cost of someone making us feel that we're not good enough! If you are so not good enough, why did he put all that effort into getting you back? Classic abuse case. You deserve better girl. Don't fall for his act.

[That_girl]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Logically, youre making sense. But then when I think about him and us, I cant imagine him being this evil. Is he aware of what he is doing, or doing it on purpose....because it doesnt seem like he would ever intentionally hurt me. Or I could just be blind at this point.

 

He does come from a pretty typical patriarchal family, father was the head of the household. What he says goes....and he did physically abuse my boyfriend when he was younger.

 

My best friend keeps telling me that Im already gone, and that he has completely brainwashed me and I just want to be able to look at this objectively.

[kooki]

Brainwashing and mindgames are their prime ammo! I also keep asking the same questions, and there are many different answers from all the research I've done online to empower me just a bit, because for a long time I thought I was overreacting or being too sensitive. My gut was telling me otherwise, because I wanted to be loved so much, I was willing to be in such major denial about what was happening. This site below is a great read on the subtleties of emotional/mental/verbal abuse.

 

Also, I think abusers fall into categories, those that know exactly what they are doing, to those that are unconscious of their actions because that's what they know - they modelled their behavior on their fathers who emotionally abused their mothers or them, to those that are mentally ill (untreated bipolar, borderline, ADHD etc), those that are addicted to substances but won't admit it, and a combination. Most though that don't have mental illness are aware of their behavior but are in denial about it, facing the fact that they abuse is very difficult to stomach, but necessary if they want to change.

 

http://www.heartlessbitches.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml

[That_girl]

Thanks, really appreciate the info. Was looking through that site and I feel like every guy meets some of the criteria for the "abusive man" profile at some point. While my guy meets more than one of these traits, he doesn't do this stuff all the time. And he isn't mean or nasty.....yet. He doesn't call me names or beat me. But I do feel like a lot of the time, he doesn't get me at all.

 

More recently, I've felt that now that I've taken him back after the cheating...he's just not tryin gto impress me or do thoughtful things for me like he used to. It's like I'm not a challenge anymore. I didn't expect the extreme gestures to go on forever....but now I'm kind of upset that he thought I was going to be so easily appeased by the few months of pleading that he did.

 

What I'm trying to figure out is what I should do next. I don't know if he is the best match for me, but he has already made me feel so dependent on him. So just dump him...just like that??

[kooki]

Girl, same thing happened to me when I took back my ex the second time. He began acting like he's entitled to things, he wouldn't act as thoughtful as he was before, i felt a difference. I think your guy may be becoming more empowered now to abuse you in future. Having said that, the most important sign for me that he has abusive tendencies is that your gut is telling you not to trust him and you are asking on this site if he's abusive. If you suspect he is, he is!!! Listen to your gut, don't listen to your heart because your gut tells you whether this guy has the potential for real love. ultimately it's your decision whether to dump him. If he cheated on you once, he will do it again! I wouldn't trust him at all. I would dump him just like that, you deserve so much more.

[dreamingoftigers]

It's not at this point "is he abusive?" but "does he handle stress and conflict in a constructive way?"

 

Clearly he doesn't and cheating is quite the flag and creating stress and conflict is not the kind of person you want to end up married with kids to. My h would lose his temper and destroy things (sometimes expensive things). I have banged things in frustration too. It only adds fuel to the fire and that will only intensify in a marriage with more stressful things.

 

If you are noticing it now, think of it intensified.

[LittleTiger]

What I'm trying to figure out is what I should do next. I don't know if he is the best match for me, but he has already made me feel so dependent on him. So just dump him...just like that??

 

If you want to stay have a look at www.narcissismcured.com. The husband is a narcissist and the wife used to be co-dependent. He abused her badly, emotionally and physically. She did a lot of work to put things right because she didn't want to leave and now they are happy and he respects her and treats her well.

 

Your guy sounds like he has narcissistic tendancies and you need to take charge of the situation. If you become dependent on him he will lose respect for you and treat you badly. Get back your self-respect, learn to stand on your own two feet emotionally and stop letting him abuse you. Then you don't have to leave.

[freestyle]

and here's another site with a forum where you can discuss and compare notes with other people who've been in similar situations. It might help you.

 

I agree with Little Tiger (somewhat) it could be NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)--but it could also be BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)--both fall into the category of Cluster B's ---and can have tendencies towards violence as well as emotionally abusive behavior.

 

There's a lot a great articles on this site:

 

http://www.relationshiprecoverynetwork.com/

 

Read, read, read, and learn about the dynamics of abuse--it's the best way to learn to keep it out of your life.

[kooki]

I'm sorry but I disagree with one of the statements above that you have the power to " fix" him. You don't. Only he himself has that power. There is no way in hell you can fix someone who is a narcissist, borderline and/ or abusive.

They need to invest time themselves in fixing themselves IF they recognize that they have a problem and acknowledge their mistakes ( take responsibility) . However, if they are borderline, I'm sorry, RUN! I know from talking to professionals about BD.

In your case, I don't know the severity of his problems or issues, but if he's selfish, self- centered, inattentive, inconsiderate, irresponsible and immature (he is some of these things because he cheated on you), then he may be a narcissist, and it may only get worse or stay the same. Better? Not a chance.I say invest time in picking a new and better guy who can treat you right and who is responsible and attentive to your needs and not selfish, and who is normal, he doesn't have to be perfect, but no major anger or flawed character issues. Cheating is lying! Cheating is irresponsible.

[dreamingoftigers]

If you want to stay have a look at www.narcissismcured.com. The husband is a narcissist and the wife used to be co-dependent. He abused her badly, emotionally and physically. She did a lot of work to put things right because she didn't want to leave and now they are happy and he respects her and treats her well.

 

Your guy sounds like he has narcissistic tendancies and you need to take charge of the situation. If you become dependent on him he will lose respect for you and treat you badly. Get back your self-respect, learn to stand on your own two feet emotionally and stop letting him abuse you. Then you don't have to leave.

 

I remember tripping over this site a few weeks ago. Even thought about buying some material. My father is a narcisscist and my husband has sOme if those traits. I'd be curious to know if my H started off that way or if I bring out that dynamic in our relationship because of my own history.

[LittleTiger]

I'm sorry but I disagree with one of the statements above that you have the power to " fix" him. You don't. Only he himself has that power. There is no way in hell you can fix someone who is a narcissist, borderline and/ or abusive.

 

I'm not sure if you're referring to my post but, if you are, I most certainly didn't say she has the power to 'fix' him. What I said was she has the power to change the dynamics of the relationship.

 

The OP has admitted that she is already dependent on him. She didn't say how, but the chances are, if he's being emotionally abusive that it's emotional dependence ie she is co-dependent.

 

Even men with NPD and/or BPD do not abuse people who will not allow themselves to be abused. This is a fact.

 

Now you can argue that you have been in other relationships with 'healthy' men and they haven't abused you so the fault is obviously not with you? I beg to differ. If you're in a relationship with someone and the dynamics work, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact that you still have, at the very least, co-dependency tendancies. Maybe the 'healthy' partner you're with just reacts differently to your co-dependency ie he finds it endearing and wants to protect you, instead of finding it a stressful burden which makes him angry and afraid.

 

Obviously, for somebody who is co-dependent, being with a man who finds you endearing is far better than being with a man who finds you a burden on his emotional resources, so why not just get out and find one of these men? If you're being abused you obviously have the choice to do that (or maybe not if you're co-dependent), but if the man (or woman, because it's not just men who are like this) you are with is otherwise a good person and you love them, maybe you don't want to leave.

 

Besides leaving, the other option you have is to cease being co-dependent so that your partner feels safe around you and doesn't have to cope with your emotions when they're already struggling with their own. The trick is to understand the underlying disorder (assuming we're talking about NPD or BPD, rather than psychosis), become emotionally healthy yourself and stop expecting more from your partner than he's able to give.

 

The way I see it, someone with NPD or BPD needs to be helped not abandoned but you can only help them by making yourself healthy. You may say it's too much work and you'd rather just leave and that's your choice but there are other options. The website I suggested is just one resource where you can get help that's different from everything else you'll read in books or on the internet.

 

Most people will tell you to leave and that's understandable but until you work on your own emotional intelligence and learn to become assertive when faced with abuse there's always a chance you'll get into a similar relationship with someone else. What I'm saying is, if you don't want to leave, change yourself first and the relationship will change too.

[LittleTiger]

I remember tripping over this site a few weeks ago. Even thought about buying some material. My father is a narcisscist and my husband has sOme if those traits. I'd be curious to know if my H started off that way or if I bring out that dynamic in our relationship because of my own history.

 

You are NOT responsible for the way your husband has behaved in your marriage. His behaviour is because of his own history.

 

In addition to his history, there is your history. Your history is responsible for making you into the woman you are now.........and that woman has allowed him to behave a certain way towards you.

 

I think the important thing is to be honest with yourself about your own emotional health and make some changes so that you don't find yourself in an abusive situation again - or if you do, you know how to deal with it.

 

Anyone who feels their partner is treating them badly (ie abusing them) should ask themselves some tough questions:

 

Do you feel you are a strong, independent, assertive person who is in control of your own life and your own emotions?

 

Would you allow another person to shout at you, call you names, make you feel small, cheat on you, lie to you or even physically attack you?

 

If the answer to the first question is 'no' and to the second question (or even just one part of it) is 'yes', then you have some work to do on yourself if you want to be in a healthy relationship in the future.

[kooki]

The way I see it, someone with NPD or BPD needs to be helped not abandoned but you can only help them by making yourself healthy.

 

Well, this is again ludicrous. Again, you can't help them, they can only help themselves if they get to a doctor. If you are healthy, and you are with a partner who has BPD or NPD, they will sack you emotionally, they will drag you down. Trying to get them to proper THERAPY (i.e. a shrink) is practically impossible (they don't admit anything is wrong with them, that is the problem).

 

I know from talking to professionals about this topic and friends who dealt with borderlines. Extremely difficult. Normal people are not robots to just sit there and take the abuse and smile. They feel. The only way to stop the abuse is to either get out, or get the borderline to go to therapy (a long long treatment and even then, it won't necessarily work...) So, working with a borderline, can take years out of your life.

I got out, and I am not sure what my ex had, although he definitely had borderline symptoms (fear of abandonment, etc...), and maybe it wasn't borderline, because I could never get him to go see someone, he was always denying he had a problem and repeating the cycle of abuse.

 

Bottom line, you can't have a healthy relationship if one person is mentally ill, or both. BOTH people have to be mentally stable. Period.

[kooki]

Sorry Little Tiger, but I think mental illness needs to be helped by pros (doctors) not quacks. People who are unstable have to take meds and/or go to psychotherapy and/or go to addiction/substance abuse programs to get better, or a combination. They have a responsibility to do so if they are in a relationship. That is my point of view.

[dreamingoftigers]

You are NOT responsible for the way your husband has behaved in your marriage. His behaviour is because of his own history.

 

Oh I know that, holy cow! People have crappy marriages all of the time but they don't all go hide a laptop and go jerk off at McDonald's!

 

In addition to his history, there is your history. Your history is responsible for making you into the woman you are now.........and that woman has allowed him to behave a certain way towards you.

 

Agreed, this woman also has certain behavioural issues. While reading After the Affair it was pointed out that spouses tend to push each other into the family dynamic though, I somewhat wonder if I played out a bit like his mother and he responded somewhat like my father. Not exactly a stretch. I think that my own responses brought out mroe strife then if I was someone else. But then again if I was just about anyone else I probably would have told him to pick a window.... because he would be leaving through it.

 

I think the important thing is to be honest with yourself about your own emotional health and make some changes so that you don't find yourself in an abusive situation again - or if you do, you know how to deal with it.

 

Up until this last major incident I had been making great improvements with my coping skills etc. and didn't realize the scope of the emotional abuse on top of the cheating that I was dealing with. I noticed afterwards though that I truly felt incapable of just about everything and that seemed odd, because I used to feel capable of much more and I am medicated now. I started listening to my 'inner voice' and found often then when I went to do something it was almost like I could hear the 50,000 slicing to the core things my husband has said to me over the past two years ringing around my head. In fact, now that he has said he is going to treatment a big part of me is quite scared that now he is going to be a 'cured' critical bastard. And I don't want him to come home if he is going to be like that to me. I am not feeling great being mostly by myself, but it is better then hearing stupid **** about how 'I have to sort myself out' and 'you were late for your meeting so you aren't really trying' and 'you can't feed her like that' and 'the place is still messy' (as he leaves an egg salad sandwich on the desk and leaves, followed by tons of kleenex in the bedroom!). Sick of all of that, I don't need someone policing my every move, especially when they were doing NOTHING to help their own situation.

 

Anyone who feels their partner is treating them badly (ie abusing them) should ask themselves some tough questions:

 

Do you feel you are a strong, independent, assertive person who is in control of your own life and your own emotions?

 

I do now and I did just before I kicked him out, everything in between has been a real kick. I hope it is just me stabilizing.

 

Would you allow another person to shout at you, call you names, make you feel small, cheat on you, lie to you or even physically attack you?

 

Never, ever again. Apparently I can live without that!

 

If the answer to the first question is 'no' and to the second question (or even just one part of it) is 'yes', then you have some work to do on yourself if you want to be in a healthy relationship in the future.

 

I think a year of healing would be best either way.

[betterdeal]

kooki, there's a lot of evidence that backs up littletiger's viewpoint.

 

People can and do work through difficult periods in their relationships, and grow as people as a result. Many other people decide to call it a day and end the relationship. Both ways have worked for lots of people.

 

Your insistence that there is only one way to skin this cat says more to me about you than anything else. What didn't work for you might work for others. What matters more - being right or being happy?

 

Lost in the Mirror is a good book on the subject of BPD. As is "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" a good book on dealing with troubled relationships.

[LittleTiger]

Well, this is again ludicrous. Again, you can't help them, they can only help themselves if they get to a doctor. If you are healthy, and you are with a partner who has BPD or NPD, they will sack you emotionally, they will drag you down. Trying to get them to proper THERAPY (i.e. a shrink) is practically impossible (they don't admit anything is wrong with them, that is the problem).

 

I know from talking to professionals about this topic and friends who dealt with borderlines. Extremely difficult. Normal people are not robots to just sit there and take the abuse and smile. They feel. The only way to stop the abuse is to either get out, or get the borderline to go to therapy (a long long treatment and even then, it won't necessarily work...) So, working with a borderline, can take years out of your life.

I got out, and I am not sure what my ex had, although he definitely had borderline symptoms (fear of abandonment, etc...), and maybe it wasn't borderline, because I could never get him to go see someone, he was always denying he had a problem and repeating the cycle of abuse.

 

Bottom line, you can't have a healthy relationship if one person is mentally ill, or both. BOTH people have to be mentally stable. Period.

 

I understand why you might feel as you do kooki, especially if you have been in an abusive relationship and felt you had no choice but to leave. I am merely pointing out that for some people there are other options.

 

In an ideal world everybody would ensure they were 100% emotionally and mentally healthy and stable before entering into a romantic relationship. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and the vast majority of people are not 100% mentally or emotionally healthy. We all have issues, its just that some people are more balanced than others - it's more of a sliding scale than an absolute.

 

Whenever you start a new relationship you are faced with the possibility that the other person will have some kind of mental imbalance or 'disorder'. Depression, anxiety, OCD, addictions (including smoking, porn, drugs, gambling), aspergers syndrome, ADHD, eating disorders, phobias, PTSD are all mental disorders which 'normal', apparently healthy, balanced people can suffer from. These are all common human ailments. Then you also have all the emotional 'baggage' from childhood and past relationships which won't be immediately apparent.

 

NPD and BPD may be more difficult to deal with in their extreme forms than some of the disorders in the list above, but abusive people aren't always narcissistic or borderline - they may just have tendancies or display certain aspects of the disorders.

 

The very fact that mentally ill people will often refuse to seek professional help is one good reason to stand by them if you love them. I don't know if you have any children but maybe you can at least imagine having a child who is diagnosed with BPD, for example. If your child displayed a fear of abandonment what would be the worst thing imaginable that you could do to them? Yes, abandon them. If you genuinely love a man or woman who has BPD you will probably do whatever you can to stand by them - just as you would if they were your child. That's what love is.

 

In order to stand by them, you need to learn to deal with your own emotions. Of course people aren't robots but emotionally healthy people are in charge of their own emotions - it's called emotional intelligence. The truly healthy, well balanced people you mention in your post are both emotionally intelligent and assertive and they do not get abused by others. It is therefore possible for such a person to have a relationship with someone with NPD or BPD tendancies without being abused, emotionally sacked, or dragged down.

 

People with NPD and BPD are difficult to deal with, there's no question of that but they're not impossible. They are also capable of acting like decent, loving, caring human beings. The vast majority will not even appear to have abusive tendancies until you have known them for months. So if they are capable of being good people for a few months, they are capable of being good people indefinitely. They just need to learn how. They also need to be in a relationship where they feel safe, which means being with a person of high emotional intelligence.

 

I am not, for one minute, suggesting that if a person needs psychiatric or psychological help, they shouldn't get it. Of course they should....but no amount of 'treatment' will help if the person they are living with is emotionally needy. This is why people say NPD and BPD are incurable.....because the world is full of emotionally unhealthy people. Co-dependents and abusers thrive off one other.

 

So again, my point is, if you want to stay (and IF is a big word) you do have options. Becoming assertive and emotionally intelligent is no mean feat - in fact it is extremely hard work and can take years. It's no wonder most people never bother. The vast majority of people are passive or aggressive (sometimes both) and emotionally unavailable or needy. There is also a huge range in between both poles but very, very few people are assertive and emotionally intelligent and these are the only people who can live happily with someone who is NPD/BPD or similar.

 

I realise that to many people my views will seem 'ludicrous' as they go against current professional thinking on this subject, but sometimes 'thinking outside the box' is the only way to make progress. The medical profession hasn't yet found a way to cure NPD or BPD but that doesn't mean sufferers should have to spend their lives feeling abandoned and alone. They will never get well unless someone, somewhere down the line, will stand by them.