Women & Sex..... Some will think a sexist rant....

[LittleTiger]

I see where I misread the quote.... But what one woman finds amazing can turn someone off completely......:laugh: I was reading from Mrs. Jones pov.....

 

You're nearly there TDP . It was me who said that.

 

What xxoo said was that you, or any other man, could totally rock your woman's world in the bedroom ie to her you're the perfect lover but she STILL won't necessarily want sex all the time.

 

The lack of interest in sex is not about the sex.

 

Forgive me if I've also misunderstood xxoo but I'm pretty sure we're thinking along the same lines here.

[Woggle]

If a man rocks her world and she still does not want sex shouldn't he just give up at that point? If he has done all that he can do and she still does not desire him then it can't be fixed.

 

Also some of the women on her are still in the affair fog which makes a woman see her husband as the worst human being on the planet.

[xxoo]

What xxoo said was that you, or any other man, could totally rock your woman's world in the bedroom ie to her you're the perfect lover but she STILL won't necessarily want sex all the time.

 

The lack of interest in sex is not about the sex.

 

Forgive me if I've also misunderstood xxoo but I'm pretty sure we're thinking along the same lines here.

 

Yes!

 

Also the part about different women having different perceptions of the same man's skills...

 

It does give me pause when a WS attributes the cheating to abuse, but then reconciles the marriage. Abusive spouses usually don't change their stripes. If the marriage is reconcilable, I wonder if there was ever truly abuse? If there was abuse, I wonder if the marriage is truly reconciliable?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You're nearly there TDP . It was me who said that.

 

What xxoo said could totally rock your woman's world in the bedroom ie to her you're the perfect lover but she STILL won't necessarily want sex all the time.

 

Thank god.... I know there is no way I could keep up....

[mem11363]

HV,

I doubt whether you and I have a common understanding of the term "healthy fear".

 

Frankly I would have no trouble at all having my personal life public - if we could blur our faces - as my conduct is fair. Kind and loving most of the time and firm and edgy when she is being difficult/mildly crazy.

 

I give love with boundaries - and am very happy with my result.

 

You basically have given an unconditional commitment. And in my opinion, the result is you have been totally exploited. And frankly your situation is very common. And please don't think that I think "divorce" is a good answer. I don't. But the half dozen plus times I have told my W - "do that and we are done" brought her to her senses.

 

It is easy for you to think of me as a bully. And believe me, it is easy for me to see you as a coward. I don't. I simply think you don't really understand what it means to fully define and enforce boundaries. If you did - there is zero chance your W would ever speak to you as if she is the owner of a industrial age factory and you are one of her employees - with no rights.

 

 

Or: "Somewhere in the overlap between aggression and outright dominance - lies fear." There's a few people that can't be scared into doing what someone else wants, but I would say that 99% of people have a breaking point. If one has to scare a partner into "passion", whether the fear is based on physical, emotional or psychological triggers, what are you getting? The line between using aggression to "arouse" apparent "passion" and eliciting an "I'll do what you want, just don't hurt me" response is narrow and nebulous.

[mem11363]

HV,

If by "do what I want or I will "hurt" you". You mean: Enforce my boundaries and explain the conditions under which I will leave the marriage - then I am guilty as charged.

 

If however by "hurt" you mean something else - you are wrong. The maximum level of hurt I would inflict on my W, is to leave her. And as a free man, I feel no shame for being willing to exercise that right if sufficiently provoked. But I would not harm a hair on her head. Nor would I try to financially harm her if we split.

 

 

HV,

I doubt whether you and I have a common understanding of the term "healthy fear".

 

Frankly I would have no trouble at all having my personal life public - if we could blur our faces - as my conduct is fair. Kind and loving most of the time and firm and edgy when she is being difficult/mildly crazy.

 

I give love with boundaries - and am very happy with my result.

 

You basically have given an unconditional commitment. And in my opinion, the result is you have been totally exploited. And frankly your situation is very common. And please don't think that I think "divorce" is a good answer. I don't. But the half dozen plus times I have told my W - "do that and we are done" brought her to her senses.

 

It is easy for you to think of me as a bully. And believe me, it is easy for me to see you as a coward. I don't. I simply think you don't really understand what it means to fully define and enforce boundaries. If you did - there is zero chance your W would ever speak to you as if she is the owner of a industrial age factory and you are one of her employees - with no rights.

[Mrs. Jones]

Yes!

 

Also the part about different women having different perceptions of the same man's skills...

 

It does give me pause when a WS attributes the cheating to abuse, but then reconciles the marriage. Abusive spouses usually don't change their stripes. If the marriage is reconcilable, I wonder if there was ever truly abuse? If there was abuse, I wonder if the marriage is truly reconciliable?

 

If you are refering to me, my M is not reconciled. He wants me to stay and I am aware he may never change and am on the fence as to where I am going with this…and am preparing for the worst case scenario in the meantime.

 

But back to the original post. Here I am in a marriage that is not ideal to me, but I still wanted sex with my H because I enjoy sex. Where as others here are in marraiges and supposidly in love, but are not having sex. I wish I felt about my H as you do yours xxoo. I am not aware of your story but do enjoy your feedback.

 

And I agreed with you on the different perspecitves on skills. My xMOM’s W may be tired of his game plan as TDP mentioned or did not appreciate what he brought as LT mentioned, who knows. I also think it comes down to compatibilty…in and out of the bedroom. Like they say, it starts with the mind.

[Mrs. Jones]

If a man rocks her world and she still does not want sex shouldn't he just give up at that point? If he has done all that he can do and she still does not desire him then it can't be fixed.

 

Also some of the women on her are still in the affair fog which makes a woman see her husband as the worst human being on the planet.

 

If I am deeply in love with a man and he can rock my world...I would want that connection at all times...he would not be refused. That's why I have a hard time with this topic. I would think if these H's W's loved them deeply they would want to share that love. If they had a medical issue then they should seek help to have that closeness, contact, and intimacy again.

 

Regarding your fog comment...I think if an A lasts for a couple of years and there was love between the AP's, it's safe to say it's an R and gone past the fog stage. I think what you are referring to mourning. My H & M was not good before the A. I have to say he looks better to me right now, but that does not mean I will stay with him. Like xxoo mentioned, a leopard does not change his spots.

[LittleTiger]

If I am deeply in love with a man and he can rock my world...I would want that connection at all times...he would not be refused. That's why I have a hard time with this topic. I would think if these H's W's loved them deeply they would want to share that love. If they had a medical issue then they should seek help to have that closeness, contact, and intimacy again.

 

No offence Mrs. Jones but, from what you've said so far, I get the impression that you've never experienced the kind of relationship you mention here - even with your husband. (My apologies if I'm wrong).

 

If that's the case then surely you're just guessing how you might behave. Perhaps even how you hope you would behave. Until you've actually experienced it I don't see how you can know for sure.

 

I think TDP is referring to women who used to enjoy sex with their partners and then began to lose interest. I don't suppose any of them expected things to change over the years but, for a multitude of reasons it often does.

 

I don't know how old you are, but many women do just start to 'go off' sex as they get older and especially after the menopause - something which is unrelated to their feelings for their spouse.

 

If you've read any of my posts you'll know I'm pretty keen on sex and I have a great relationship, but I still worry that when I hit the menopause things will change. My partner and I have 'ideas and plans' just in case that happens and I hope I will never turn into one of the wives TDP is talking about. Given that I'm already at an age when a lot of women seem to have lost interest I'd say there's a fair chance we'll be ok, but nobody can predict the future.

[giotto]

Man: I love you, I desire you, you are hot, let's have sex...

 

Woman: I love you, I desire you, you are hot, but let's watch a film first... and, yes, bring me the chocolates... and the book... the adverts are annoying... zzzzzz.... :)

[LittleTiger]

Man: I love you, I desire you, you are hot, let's have sex...

 

Woman: I love you, I desire you, you are hot, but let's watch a film first... and, yes, bring me the chocolates... and the book... the adverts are annoying... zzzzzz.... :)

 

 

Not in my house Giotto!

 

Chocolates WITH sex though? Now you're talking!

[Mrs. Jones]

No offence Mrs. Jones but, from what you've said so far, I get the impression that you've never experienced the kind of relationship you mention here - even with your husband. (My apologies if I'm wrong).

 

If that's the case then surely you're just guessing how you might behave. Perhaps even how you hope you would behave. Until you've actually experienced it I don't see how you can know for sure.

 

I think TDP is referring to women who used to enjoy sex with their partners and then began to lose interest. I don't suppose any of them expected things to change over the years but, for a multitude of reasons it often does.

 

I don't know how old you are, but many women do just start to 'go off' sex as they get older and especially after the menopause - something which is unrelated to their feelings for their spouse.

 

If you've read any of my posts you'll know I'm pretty keen on sex and I have a great relationship, but I still worry that when I hit the menopause things will change. My partner and I have 'ideas and plans' just in case that happens and I hope I will never turn into one of the wives TDP is talking about. Given that I'm already at an age when a lot of women seem to have lost interest I'd say there's a fair chance we'll be ok, but nobody can predict the future.

 

Looks like I'm your age give or take a year, and I too am pretty keen on sex. But you're right, I am just guessing because I have not stopped having sex with my husband for the past 20 years.

 

Sex has ebbed and flowed for me too and considering what you have been reading from me and the fact that I still have a healthy sex life with my H, you're right, I can only imagine how much better it would be if I were passionately in love with him like these other W's are with their H's. They are so in love with their H's that they cannot be intimate with them for a variety of reasons. And some just seem to choose not to repair it, thus putting the relationship in jeopardy.

 

Yes, I hope when I hit menopause - which will be soon, I do not lose my desire for sex, but I think because I still have much interest there is a chance I will be okay too.

[LittleTiger]

If I am deeply in love with a man and he can rock my world...I would want that connection at all times...he would not be refused. That's why I have a hard time with this topic. I would think if these H's W's loved them deeply they would want to share that love. If they had a medical issue then they should seek help to have that closeness, contact, and intimacy again.

 

I'm repeating this again, because I think you misunderstood - or perhaps I did. Didn't you say you had an affair?

 

I wasn't questioning whether you were capable of continuing a sexual relationship for a number of years with the same man, I was talking about you being 'deeply in love with a man who can rock your world and wanting that connection at all times'.

 

In my view, a woman who is deeply in love with her husband, a husband who rocks her world, does not have an affair with a married man while she herself is still married. So again, you seem to be admitting that you have not experienced this type of relationship.

 

That said, sex is obviously very important to you and your marriage is apparently not 'sexless' so I'm wondering how your situation relates to this thread.

 

You said initially that women got 'bored', or at least that you did and that's why your husband doesn't excite you and presumably why you had an affair - was it really just about sex? That's pretty rare for a woman - it's usually more about emotions than just sex. Then you say that your husband never excited you and he's far too vanilla in the bedroom. So if you don't passionately love your husband and he doesn't excite you that does raise the question of why you married him in the first place and why you continue to have sex with him.

 

Which is rather different from women who marry a man they are deeply and passionately in love with and continue to be deeply in love with - but then they go off sex.

 

I believe that, in most cases, is it has nothing to do with boredom or an unwillingness to seek help. Nor does it have anything to do with how much a woman loves her husband. It's about hormones, stress, over-tiredness, children, emotional or mental problems, medication, feeling unattractive, a breakdown in communication (despite the love still being present) etc etc etc.

 

I don't 'approve' of women depriving their husbands of sex. Personally, I think it's cruel. However, I do think you are being a little judgemental when you say they 'should' do this, or they 'should' do that. You know nothing about what these women are feeling or experiencing. It takes two to make a relationship work and two to destroy it. I am nearly always on the man's side in these sexless marriage discussions but until I've walked a mile in another woman's shoes I prefer to cut them a bit of slack.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It was dirty.... Tough winter, salt dust, finger prints, mess all over.... She hates it.

 

It got me thinking if I was ever single and going out on a date, I'd make sure the car was washed, detailed and no wires or magazines strewn all over.... If I picked up a date in the car in the state it was in and the date would already be jeopardized.....

 

Unfortunately this is married life w/ kids and I am the messier one (not terrible but an 8, where my wife is a 10). Her car, the kids are seldom allowed in (nor me for the most part).... It is her sanctuary.

 

Point is we are not always at our best for our spouses..... Yes I am always showered, clean, brushed and flossed, but my hair may be unkempt and choice of clothes not matched.....

 

I hope she can look past that and take the good with the bad, but no, we are no longer courting.....

Edited March 20, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[LittleTiger]

I hope she can look past that and take the good with the bad, but no, we are no longer courting.....

 

VERY interesting point TDP.........sexual desire thrives on mystery and you've just shown very clearly how the mystery (and thus desire) can disappear from a LTR.

 

Life sort of gets in the way!

 

As we all know, once we reach the point of 'letting it all hang out' (so to speak ) there is a danger that our partners will start to look at us differently.

 

I bet if you made even a small change, such as wearing matching clothes (what are you thinking TDP?!!! ) you'll notice a small change in how your wife sees you.

 

Bring some mystery back and you just never know .

 

Of course there's also a danger she'll start getting suspicious and wonder what the h*ll you're up to! :laugh:

[giotto]

 

I bet if you made even a small change, such as wearing matching clothes (what are you thinking TDP?!!! ) you'll notice a small change in how your wife sees you.

 

Bring some mystery back and you just never know .

 

gosh, I'll have to start wearing a suit!

[LittleTiger]

gosh, I'll have to start wearing a suit!

 

That's the spirit Giotto - problem solved!!! :laugh:

[giotto]

That's the spirit Giotto - problem solved!!! :laugh:

 

was it so easy?

[LittleTiger]

was it so easy?

 

Sadly, I doubt it - but if it's something you haven't tried before - who knows?! I may be a woman but I'm just as confused about other women as you are.

 

I listen to my friends talking about sex (most married, one or two not) and I just don't get it.

 

I'll keep listening though and if I ever come across a magic forumla, I'll let you know.

[Moanin]

sexual desire thrives on mystery and you've just shown very clearly how the mystery (and thus desire) can disappear from a LTR.

 

Life sort of gets in the way!

 

As we all know, once we reach the point of 'letting it all hang out' there is a danger that our partners will start to look at us differently.

 

Bring some mystery back and you just never know

 

LT these statements are so true and I'm not sure how one would avoid these "pitfalls" once a couple is living together...

 

I know we all can't wake up with great smelling breath, etc. But I think that "letting it all hang out" takes a real bite out of the sexual desire we feel for one another.... we tend to become so comfortable with one another that our feelings turn from thinking our partner is sexy and desirable to seeing them more like a brother/sister or roommate. I think this is mostly true of men who tend to be more visual than woman... that said, women can be just as visual and get turned off just the same.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Moanin

[giotto]

 

I'll keep listening though and if I ever come across a magic forumla, I'll let you know.

 

Thanks... but it looks like that even a magic formula won't suffice in my case... maybe a change of husband would do the trick...

[Mrs. Jones]

I'm repeating this again, because I think you misunderstood - or perhaps I did. Didn't you say you had an affair?

Yes, but that really has nothing to do with the post. I only admitted to this because someone mentioned I was loyal, and I was not.

 

I wasn't questioning whether you were capable of continuing a sexual relationship for a number of years with the same man, I was talking about you being 'deeply in love with a man who can rock your world and wanting that connection at all times'.

 

In my view, a woman who is deeply in love with her husband, a husband who rocks her world, does not have an affair with a married man while she herself is still married. So again, you seem to be admitting that you have not experienced this type of relationship.

 

I have experienced the love I described, and no, it is not with my H. I would have to assume that since I can keep up a sexual relationship with my H feeling the way I described, I would flourish in the type of relationship you and xxoo are in.

 

That said, sex is obviously very important to you and your marriage is apparently not 'sexless' so I'm wondering how your situation relates to this thread.

 

The OP mentioned many reasons for women to lose interest in sex...complicated reasons and some not so complicated. I was giving my point of view and my experience with this. At one point in my M, I was sexless...due to raising babies, but I came back.

 

You said initially that women got 'bored', or at least that you did and that's why your husband doesn't excite you and presumably why you had an affair - was it really just about sex? That's pretty rare for a woman - it's usually more about emotions than just sex. Then you say that your husband never excited you and he's far too vanilla in the bedroom. So if you don't passionately love your husband and he doesn't excite you that does raise the question of why you married him in the first place and why you continue to have sex with him.

 

My A started as and EA and became a PA, so it was not about sex. I never said my H never excited me...there was a lot of excitement in the beginning as with any new relationship. I stated the intimacy is gone, and there is a difference. The sex is still pretty good, but what I miss is the intimacy. I do not think you really understood my posts...I am missing the deep connection during sex with my H that these other W's claim they have, yet do not engage with their H's anymore. I had that with someone else and I know what that feels like. Whether I can get that back with my H remains to be seen, but I have not stopped having sex with him because of it. Also, my affair was very much about the emotional if you saw what my situation was at home. It became physical, and boy was it...

 

Which is rather different from women who marry a man they are deeply and passionately in love with and continue to be deeply in love with - but then they go off sex.

 

Again I do not get this and it's just my opinion. If I was deeply in love, there would be nothing stopping me from making love to my H. I'm not saying it would not ebb and flow for various reasons, but sex is important to me...maybe not so much as important to other women.

 

I believe that, in most cases, is it has nothing to do with boredom or an unwillingness to seek help. Nor does it have anything to do with how much a woman loves her husband. It's about hormones, stress, over-tiredness, children, emotional or mental problems, medication, feeling unattractive, a breakdown in communication (despite the love still being present) etc etc etc.

 

But I do think women get bored just as men do. It’s the responsibility of both partners to keep the heat on. I say this because I know personally couples going through this, and really the women look at these issues as just another reason to not have sex. I think that is sad and so wrong.

 

I don't 'approve' of women depriving their husbands of sex. Personally, I think it's cruel. However, I do think you are being a little judgemental when you say they 'should' do this, or they 'should' do that. You know nothing about what these women are feeling or experiencing. It takes two to make a relationship work and two to destroy it. I am nearly always on the man's side in these sexless marriage discussions but until I've walked a mile in another woman's shoes I prefer to cut them a bit of slack.

 

I agree with you on the above. If I came across as disrespectful to the W’s who are having trouble in this area, that was not my intent.

 

 

Good morning LT...please see bolded.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

from your post above and expanding, because not sure I agree.

 

But I do think women get bored just as men do. It’s the responsibility of both partners to keep the heat on.

 

I think women for the most part get bored far quicker then men when married. A woman remains attractive/sexy (yes sexist) and continues to have sex and enjoy it, a man will not grow bored (unless they are cheaters, have a kinky side or a need for swinging/polyamorous/open relationship), because that makes them happy.....

 

A woman as per my OP, will have many reasons to shut down/off...... and that is what leads to problems

 

For a woman to keep the heat on takes a hand down the pants, awhisper in the ear and if the guy is lucky some sexy lingerie and that's about it.....

[PinkInTheLimo]

I bet if you made even a small change, such as wearing matching clothes (what are you thinking TDP?!!! ) you'll notice a small change in how your wife sees you.

 

I am not sure...

 

In the beginning of this topic he wrote: I'll be more then crass, but my wife had really good sex the other night (at least as far as the orgasm went, and yes it is my responsibility to do the job to get her there;)) and frankly after wards it's no more then a shrug of the shoulders and no need to do it for a while (and certainly not initiate)....

 

It sound more like a profound indifference from her side towards him, I am not sure if new clothes would generate a lot of enthousiasm.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Mem, I missed this! Went away for a couple of days and your reply is buried!

 

HV,

I doubt whether you and I have a common understanding of the term "healthy fear".

I suspect you're right. I think things like never, ever, going into a pen with a bull and letting your attention wander even for a second. You might have known that animal all of its life, but you cannot predict that this isn't that day it decides to try to kill you for no reason whatsoever. Or never, ever assuming that the last person disconnected the 8kv supply from the microscope before you open it up. THAT is healthy fear.

 

Frankly I would have no trouble at all having my personal life public - if we could blur our faces - as my conduct is fair. Kind and loving most of the time and firm and edgy when she is being difficult/mildly crazy.

Not sure I get this - it seems a bit of a non-sequitur.

 

I give love with boundaries - and am very happy with my result.

 

You basically have given an unconditional commitment. And in my opinion, the result is you have been totally exploited. And frankly your situation is very common. And please don't think that I think "divorce" is a good answer. I don't. But the half dozen plus times I have told my W - "do that and we are done" brought her to her senses.

 

It is easy for you to think of me as a bully. And believe me, it is easy for me to see you as a coward. I don't. I simply think you don't really understand what it means to fully define and enforce boundaries. If you did - there is zero chance your W would ever speak to you as if she is the owner of a industrial age factory and you are one of her employees - with no rights.

You don't come over as a bully - but to be honest, the impression given is "I get my own way or I walk", which sounds a bit petulant. I suppose it comes back to a view that in marriage it IS an unconditional relationship. Hence the bits of the oath like "for better or worse" etc - rather than "for better or until you do something I don't like and I take my ball home".