Women & Sex..... Some will think a sexist rant....

[dreamingoftigers]

I'll give just a few examples; we have been married a little more than 10 years. I swear to you that I am not exaggerating....about 1 month ago he called me at work and asked me how to start our dishwasher....and it dawned on me that he had never used it before. He has also never used our washing machine or dryer...but yet, he complains if he's out of white t-shirts to wear under his dress-shirts.

 

He's very good at directing everyone while sitting on the sofa with remote in hand..

 

He has this fear of getting his hands dirty....I'm serious. He won't touch dirty dishes, change diapers (unless home alone with the kids for a long period of time), etc...

 

I manage all of the bills along with the timing of payments.....he has no idea where we are financially....he doesn't ask because he just doesn't have to think about it.

 

He is a good father and is very involved with our children and he is stable in his career....so there are some positives.

 

If he were not a good father, there would be no question about me leaving and

that decision would be made easy for me......If I were to leave and split up our home, I would still be responsible for all of the stuff I listed above (there's much more I could have listed), I just wouldn't be doing it for him anymore..

 

When I got married I had hoped that we would be a team, instead I feel as if I have a 3rd child to care for.....and for me, that isn't very sexy...

 

Anytime you want to trade marital issues, you let me know right away! I'll do some damn dishes, you can go through the recovery process for a spouse of a sexual addict. You can have the financial issues too. When do we start?

[dreamingoftigers]

Actually I think I have the answer to your problems right there: you see if you want sexy, then you can go down to the wireless connection at the local McDonald's with my husband. He'll look up some sexy stuff I am sure. And he is not the type of guy who I'd afraid to get His hands dirty, so you are in luck!

 

Don't worry about having a 3rd kid to look after or bills to organize payments for, because simply you will only have to worry about looking after a two year old when he randomly disappears, and with your income cut exactly in half when he does disappear, you won't have money to pay the bills anyways! The fun part will be planning what utility to go without when. Sometimes it's the phone, sometimes electric, sometimes hear in the summer (no hot water). Freedom of choice, it's great!

 

I'll make some beds and do some laundry. If you get here on a month where they cut the electric, you don't even have to worry about laundry because you won't be able to do it! On the bright side you get a brand new laptop about twice a year because you will catch him with it, intentional or not. Upgrade!

 

My husband won't direct you with a remote in his hand. We don't have cable! And it wouldn't be a remote in his hand anyways.

 

When can you start?

[dreamingoftigers]

From what you say your husband is addicted to porn even though you are more than willing to be intimate with him. Men who would rather wack off to porn than have sex with a good woman who is willing are out of their mind. I enjoyed my nudie mags while I was single but now I no longer need them.

 

I agree, it us actually and emotional (relating) and brain function issue. Many have recovered and there is actually a laser treatment for it, it costs about $2000.00. I will be happy to post the results on LS after the treament is complete.

 

(not to make it sound like they zap the porn out of a guy's head lol, just if there is an addictive feed-back loop, porn and gambling affect the same areas of the brain, they can curb the addictive edge off of it with an 85% success rate, the rate of success goes higher with the recovery follow-up.)

 

The core of the addiction is not actually the porn itself, but masturbation to relieve anxiety. In my H's case sexual intimacy causes huge anxiety so the only way to get the release is through masturbation (it's "safer"). Let's just say his home life was pretty screwed growing up.

[Honorable_Venerable]

Somewhere in the overlap of respect and fear and excitement - lies passion.

 

Somewhere in the overlap between love and aggression and outright dominance - lies passion.

 

My W never liked flowers or jewelry or expensive clothing. But scare her or overpower her and - Wow. But scaring or overpowering her just the right way - without being mean - requires skill that comes from years of practice.

 

Or: "Somewhere in the overlap between aggression and outright dominance - lies fear." There's a few people that can't be scared into doing what someone else wants, but I would say that 99% of people have a breaking point. If one has to scare a partner into "passion", whether the fear is based on physical, emotional or psychological triggers, what are you getting? The line between using aggression to "arouse" apparent "passion" and eliciting an "I'll do what you want, just don't hurt me" response is narrow and nebulous.

[giotto]

TDP, I think you should accept that your wife's desire for sex is not the same as yours. Sure, she enjoys it when you have it, but obviously she gets more pleasure from reading a book or watching her favourite TV programme. I had to learn to accept that, although my wife has more issues on top of it. It's a bit sad and surely frustrating, but I believe you are just wasting your time trying to understand. And I don't believe it's your fault... she is probably at a different stage in her life.

 

I found your situation devastating when it happened to me, because I'm the romantic type and maybe a bit naïve and it's taken me years to accept it. Enjoy your wife the way she is, especially if sex is the only less than satisfactory aspect of your relationship. If you don't do that, you will end up resenting her and eventually falling out of love with her, like me, with my wife...

 

 

Well not so much a rant but an observation

 

We read from some women about their sexless husbands and it is usually very simple to diagnose (not including serial cheaters here)..... Porn addiction, not attracted to spouse (ie. put on weight, stopped trying to be sexual.....), or never were overtly sexual to begin with, may be homosexual or the dreaded mother issues.... Really very straightforward and not difficult to figure out....

 

Women though we know there is no simple answer..... Past abuse, emotional disconnect, the mother years, work stress, overwhelmed at home, spouse doesn't help at home, menopause, medication...... Yes I will add the caveat that every man on here always state they still look the same (i.e. aged, but no significant weight gain)

 

These are within marriages that were sexual and "normal" and then have dwindled to barely a trickle. When a man tries to get to the root and every "rock is overturned" yet another roadblock is put up (sorry mixing metaphors).......

 

BTW where is JamesM????

 

Oh yea and as I always say, once you do have sex, everything works perfectly well.......:laugh:

 

So what is it????? She's just not that into you as we've had some jaded women tell us????

[tommyr]

I suffer in silence for the most part.

 

The ironic thing is that your husband is also suffering in silence, yet neither of you cares enough to do something about it. Why not see a good MC?

I have been in a mutually resentful (and, therefore, sexless) marriage so I have seen that MC can work.

Had I not been the one to force the issue 3+ years ago, no doubt we would both still be suffering in silence.

[tommyr]

Most (and I say that as opposed to MANY) women are pretty content to have children, immerse themselves in family, work, activities and sex can dwindle or disappear.....

 

I have to agree with this statement.

I say this based on my own marriage, and MANY of my friends.

 

I have come to accept the fact that one of my roles in the marriage is to keep the sexual fire burning. Now that I no longer resent that role, we actually have a great sex life.

[giotto]

I have to agree with this statement.

I say this based on my own marriage, and MANY of my friends.

 

I have come to accept the fact that one of my roles in the marriage is to keep the sexual fire burning. Now that I no longer resent that role, we actually have a great sex life.

 

 

all of my friends always make "jokey" remarks about their infrequent sex life, especially after their first child (not immediately, of course)... ALL of them. In fact, one of my closest friend asked me once whether they should have a kid and I replied: well, children are the best thing in the world and you'll love it, but you can say bye bye to your sex life, or at least as it was before...

 

Funnily enough, he is very frustrated about sex now (even if the child is over two now and sleep through).... and I can believe him... his wife is gorgeous!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

TDP, I think you should accept that your wife's desire for sex is not the same as yours. Sure, she enjoys it when you have it, but obviously she gets more pleasure from reading a book or watching her favourite TV programme. I had to learn to accept that, although my wife has more issues on top of it. It's a bit sad and surely frustrating, but I believe you are just wasting your time trying to understand. And I don't believe it's your fault... she is probably at a different stage in her life.

 

I found your situation devastating when it happened to me, because I'm the romantic type and maybe a bit naïve and it's taken me years to accept it. Enjoy your wife the way she is, especially if sex is the only less than satisfactory aspect of your relationship. If you don't do that, you will end up resenting her and eventually falling out of love with her, like me, with my wife...

 

Though I did have to point out that sex works and we are doing okay for the most part (some health issues on her side, making her unable to exercise as she wants, which makes up her career and her activities notwithstanding). I was pointing out what issues a woman has and the triggers that are much more difficult to get to the root of. When you clear one hurdle (i.e. motherhood and children) another may present themselves (menopause, abuse)..... As said men who are/go sexless are really much simpler to understand.

 

Moanin has said some of her story and it is simply she resents her husband and feels she is raising another child, while also being much more successful in her career and earnings. Now the question to her is if he looked in to the mirror, grew up, faced his phobias and pulled his weight, would sex return or something else stand in the way (i.e. the years of resentment)?

[giotto]

Though I did have to point out that sex works and we are doing okay for the most part (some health issues on her side, making her unable to exercise as she wants, which makes up her career and her activities notwithstanding). I was pointing out what issues a woman has and the triggers that are much more difficult to get to the root of. When you clear one hurdle (i.e. motherhood and children) another may present themselves (menopause, abuse)..... As said men who are/go sexless are really much simpler to understand.

 

Moanin has said some of her story and it is simply she resents her husband and feels she is raising another child, while also being much more successful in her career and earnings. Now the question to her is if he looked in to the mirror, grew up, faced his phobias and pulled his weight, would sex return or something else stand in the way (i.e. the years of resentment)?

 

so, what you really mean is that women are much more psychologically advanced and hence more complicated? We - men - are simplistic and straightforward? There' s always a reason for a woman not to have sex... you know that well... it has to be perfect. I think what we resent is sometimes the unflexibility of this all, even when we are obviously making a big effort for "it" to be perfect. To be honest, I gave up trying to understand many moons ago...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

so, what you really mean is that women are much more psychologically advanced and hence more complicated? We - men - are simplistic and straightforward? There' s always a reason for a woman not to have sex... you know that well... it has to be perfect. I think what we resent is sometimes the unflexibility of this all, even when we are obviously making a big effort for "it" to be perfect. To be honest, I gave up trying to understand many moons ago...

 

When sex dwindles for a man, as said I stated in the OP it is pretty simple...... He never was sexual and the woman ignored it, he is a closeted homosexual (read many threads on LS where it is painfully clear that is the case and the woman denies it over and over), a porn addiction, they have mother madonna/whore (i.e. you have had children) issues or the sad cruelty that the woman has let herself go (put on weight, unkempt.....).

 

For women the reasons/issues are ten fold and then as Giotto points out, you may have set the mood, done all right and all is going well, but something sets her off or her mind is elsewhere (i.e. the petty fight at the office that she's still stressed about;):D).....

[giotto]

When sex dwindles for a man, as said I stated in the OP it is pretty simple...... He never was sexual and the woman ignored it, he is a closeted homosexual (read many threads on LS where it is painfully clear that is the case and the woman denies it over and over), a porn addiction, they have mother madonna/whore (i.e. you have had children) issues or the sad cruelty that the woman has let herself go (put on weight, unkempt.....).

 

For women the reasons/issues are ten fold and then as Giotto points out, you may have set the mood, done all right and all is going well, but something sets her off or her mind is elsewhere (i.e. the petty fight at the office that she's still stressed about;):D).....

 

well, I would like to know if, great women like xxoo or LittleTiger , get upset over little things too, far more than their husbands/partners... and if it has to be absolutely "right" to have sex or if they can get over these little "disturbances" easily to get in the mood...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

well, I would like to know if, great women like xxoo or LittleTiger , get upset over little things too, far more than their husbands/partners... and if it has to be absolutely "right" to have sex or if they can get over these little "disturbances" easily to get in the mood...

 

are actually men posting as women to drive US males nuts......

 

Can you imagine a male turning down sex because something did not go absolutely right???? That is just so laughable.....

 

One last thing in my post above I forgot a comma between mother and madonna/whore. There are men who forever have mother issues that affect relationships and sex with their spouses.

[TigerCub]

That's the $1,000,000 question.... we have 2 small children and at least for now it's "easier" (I dislike using that word) to have the children under one roof with 2 parents than to split up their home and our resources.

 

We have recently hired a nanny to help with the children, cook and do light cleaning... but this seems to have given my H the idea that he's totally off the hook now...

 

The resentment has been building for 5 - 7 years now and I think the damage is permanent. I may be able to grow to like my husband again someday, but I doubt very much that I will ever feel passion for him again or look at him as being sexy....

 

I need to be in this for the long haul....I have children who are relying on me and I can't just think about my needs anymore. We can't always walk away from our "mistakes" (unhappy marriages)...

 

We do not have a lot of shouting or arguing going on in front of the children, so please no lectures on the damage being done to the children.... I suffer in silence for the most part...I do not want to make this the children's problem as well..

 

Thanks for answering Moanin.

No lectures! - you're already aware of everything and dealing with it the best you can.

[TigerCub]

Most probably economic/social security.

It`s why most women continue to pretend.

They can`t make it on their own and know it.

 

OUCH!!

I thought most women worked these days - and are quite self sufficient.

 

I dunno, maybe some decide to stay at home after the kids and never go back and by then just get used to having some provide everything - I personally think that's a mistake. I'd never want to be in a position where I'm dependent on someone.

 

...but still, ouch!

[LittleTiger]

well, I would like to know if, great women like xxoo or LittleTiger , get upset over little things too, far more than their husbands/partners... and if it has to be absolutely "right" to have sex or if they can get over these little "disturbances" easily to get in the mood...

 

Thanks for the compliment Giotto. :D

 

Yes I get upset over 'little' things but not enough to put me off sex. Actually, I find sex is a great way to make me forget about the 'little' things - assuming, of course, that the 'thing' isn't something my partner has done.

 

I think what makes it work so well for us is that we know how to get each other in the mood - we're very 'in tune' sexually. My partner finds me sexually 'easy' () because I'm a 'touch freak'. I can't get enough physical contact and he knows it. So, even if I'm not feeling great or there's a lot of stuff on my mind, all he has to do is 'touch' me - it's like lighting a firework.

 

It was the same with my exH, even after 15 years together......but he rarely seemed interested in fireworks - despite the fact that I'm just as 'hot' as I was in my 20s and 30s (with a few more wrinkles of course! )

 

I will have sex, even I don't particularly want an orgasm, because I like touching and being physically intimate with my partner. If my mind keeps wondering to those annoying 'little things' it means I might not have an orgasm but I'm still going to have a great time.

[LittleTiger]

Actually littleTiger & xxoo....

are actually men posting as women to drive US males nuts......

 

 

Damn.....dude!!! Who grassed on us? :laugh:

[xxoo]

Thanks for the compliment Giotto. :D

 

Yes I get upset over 'little' things but not enough to put me off sex. Actually, I find sex is a great way to make me forget about the 'little' things - assuming, of course, that the 'thing' isn't something my partner has done.

 

I think what makes it work so well for us is that we know how to get each other in the mood - we're very 'in tune' sexually. My partner finds me sexually 'easy' () because I'm a 'touch freak'. I can't get enough physical contact and he knows it. So, even if I'm not feeling great or there's a lot of stuff on my mind, all he has to do is 'touch' me - it's like lighting a firework.

 

It was the same with my exH, even after 15 years together......but he rarely seemed interested in fireworks - despite the fact that I'm just as 'hot' as I was in my 20s and 30s (with a few more wrinkles of course! )

 

I will have sex, even I don't particularly want an orgasm, because I like touching and being physically intimate with my partner. If my mind keeps wondering to those annoying 'little things' it means I might not have an orgasm but I'm still going to have a great time.

 

Ditto ALL of this!

 

Esp the part about "little things" keeping me from having an orgasm, but not keeping me from craving sex (craving the touch and the connection--it makes me feel "whole").

 

The exception is, of course, if I am upset with H. If there is an unresolved issue between us, I can't shove it aside and have sex anyway (maybe because sex is SO intimate for me?). That ends up meaning that we stay with an issue and really work it out, instead of pushing them aside, which I believe has been really good for our relationship.

[Moanin]

Call divorcebusters or a marriage counselor or something. God, try not doing the dishes.

 

This is serious serious conflict avoidance. It will affect every facet of your life if you don't solve it!

 

Anytime you want to trade marital issues, you let me know right away! I'll do some damn dishes, you can go through the recovery process for a spouse of a sexual addict. You can have the financial issues too. When do we start?

 

We have tried MC and the results were positive but short lived.... I at least felt "heard" for the first time as I was able to get my frustrations out without being interrupted. I do not avoid conflict.....I have tried for years to make changes. I have fought, cried, screamed, threatened divorce, etc to no avail.... I had to stop the "conflict" after I saw the fear in my children's faces one day while we were arguing loudly....it broke my heart.

 

My husband truly doesn't think we have a problem. In the beginning, I was the one with the higher sex drive and since my desire for him has all but disappeared, the lack of sex hasn't been an issue for either of us.. I'm not sure what he does for "relief" and honestly I don't really care.

 

I understand your marital issues as well. And I agree with you that on a scale, yours probably rate much higher in severity....I'm not sure what the answers are. Joining LS has helped me to realize that each marriage has its own issues and that marriage overall is an extremely difficult venture. I have become so jaded about marriage, and the notion of happily-ever-after just doesn't exist for me any longer.... When I attend weddings now, sadly I find it difficult to be happy for the couple getting married and I think to myself...."if they only knew what they are getting themselves into"….

 

My boys are happy and healthy and loved. I am trying to raise them differently than their father was raised. I want them to respect women as a partner and not treat them as if they are subservient....

[Moanin]

Moanin has said some of her story and it is simply she resents her husband and feels she is raising another child, while also being much more successful in her career and earnings. Now the question to her is if he looked in to the mirror, grew up, faced his phobias and pulled his weight, would sex return or something else stand in the way (i.e. the years of resentment)?

 

In any of my past relationships of dating, I have never been able to regain the attraction, passion, etc. once it's gone. So I don't think it's possible for me to ever feel that intense sexual desire for H again.

 

I hope I can at least get to the point were I like him enough to want to have sex with him again.... but I'm not sure that's possible without extreme changes on his part.

 

H was raised catholic and had very little experience prior to being with me. He is very vanilla in his approach to sex... I found this to be refreshing at first, but now since I've had children, he seems to view me as a mother and not as a wife.... same old, same old....I've read it on here (as well as other places) many times.... I'm a professional and take great care of myself and he's proud to "show" me off as his wife....but that's the extent of his interest in me..

[LittleTiger]

The exception is, of course, if I am upset with H. If there is an unresolved issue between us, I can't shove it aside and have sex anyway (maybe because sex is SO intimate for me?). That ends up meaning that we stay with an issue and really work it out, instead of pushing them aside, which I believe has been really good for our relationship.

 

Ditto from me too - that's what I meant by:

assuming the 'thing' isn't something my partner has done

 

An unresolved issue between us is probably the only thing that stops me from wanting sex with him and I think it's very similar for him too. We're not into 'make up' sex. Whatever it is has to be sorted before we have sex again because the whole point of sex is physical and emotional intimacy...........and how can you be truly intimate with someone when there are unresolved 'issues' between you?

[sally4sara]

I can promise you as someone who works in the Insurance Industry not a single client or carrier I know covers Viagra (may be written in some very unique cases) and not a single carrier excludes birth control.....

 

As for a female viagra, I am 100% convinced that it would not be a resounding success and few males would worry their spouse would take it and turn into a raving sex addict....... That's very funny.....

 

The insurance carriers I've had, when it comes to prescriptions, always have it so that the out of pocket amount you have to cover before they chip in leaves nothing left they need to cover. And if there is a generic version - you must take the generic version or not be covered at all. Same thing they do with the deduct you have to cover before they kick in always being just a bit more than the amount for your yearly pap and lab costs. Not really the point but...

 

Current FIL and ex FIL both pay nothing for their penis pills. Perhaps chummy with their Docs? I do remember MIL curious after hearing it worked for women too but she said she couldn't get a prescript when she inquired about it with her GP (same doc her husband gets them from) let alone any freebies.

 

Thing is, while it works for women with physical impediments to sexual function it doesn't make a woman want to have sex with just anyone. It was upon that discovery that they shelved further research into a female version. I find that funny - don't you? If it wouldn't make her want sex with just anyone around then wouldn't it be an excellent way to help couples where the woman is dealing with sexual function issues? But that wasn't enough of a reason to continue or complete research on it. So it has remained a situation where the husband has to get it for her or get it online.

 

And dear, I too would find it funny that some men would worry about their wife being more easily aroused and what that would mean if he wasn't around if I had never ran into men who expressed this concern. Its the whole "good girls don't like sex/just a wifely duty" attitude. Its good you don't share that attitude on the matter but it is still one in the mix of things.

 

As to when it isn't a physical impediment for why she isn't wanting it with her partner anymore - reasons vary. I make no assumptions about those reasons as I've been there before in my last marriage and the reasons were neither little or petty. I'm sure calling those reasons "petty" or "little" don't help the situation. If they truly were little and petty then perhaps it is a different problem entirely such as ADD or other focus hindering disorder.

[Woggle]

are actually men posting as women to drive US males nuts......

 

Can you imagine a male turning down sex because something did not go absolutely right???? That is just so laughable.....

 

One last thing in my post above I forgot a comma between mother and madonna/whore. There are men who forever have mother issues that affect relationships and sex with their spouses.

 

I am not saying it is all or even most women but I truly believe there are women who have their own version of the Madonna/Whore complex. They just can't feel sexual with a faithful and reliable man. They associate bad boys and unavailable men with sexuality. I really do believe some women are like this.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The insurance carriers I've had, when it comes to prescriptions, always have it so that the out of pocket amount you have to cover before they chip in leaves nothing left they need to cover. And if there is a generic version - you must take the generic version or not be covered at all. Same thing they do with the deduct you have to cover before they kick in always being just a bit more than the amount for your yearly pap and lab costs. Not really the point but...

 

Current FIL and ex FIL both pay nothing for their penis pills. Perhaps chummy with their Docs? I do remember MIL curious after hearing it worked for women too but she said she couldn't get a prescript when she inquired about it with her GP (same doc her husband gets them from) let alone any freebies.

 

Thing is, while it works for women with physical impediments to sexual function it doesn't make a woman want to have sex with just anyone. It was upon that discovery that they shelved further research into a female version. I find that funny - don't you? If it wouldn't make her want sex with just anyone around then wouldn't it be an excellent way to help couples where the woman is dealing with sexual function issues? But that wasn't enough of a reason to continue or complete research on it. So it has remained a situation where the husband has to get it for her or get it online.

 

And dear, I too would find it funny that some men would worry about their wife being more easily aroused and what that would mean if he wasn't around if I had never ran into men who expressed this concern. Its the whole "good girls don't like sex/just a wifely duty" attitude. Its good you don't share that attitude on the matter but it is still one in the mix of things.

 

As to when it isn't a physical impediment for why she isn't wanting it with her partner anymore - reasons vary. I make no assumptions about those reasons as I've been there before in my last marriage and the reasons were neither little or petty. I'm sure calling those reasons "petty" or "little" don't help the situation. If they truly were little and petty then perhaps it is a different problem entirely such as ADD or other focus hindering disorder.

 

Orgasm Inc. (google it), that discusses the "myth" of a female viagra. You have two sides firmly entrenched as to whether the actual term "sexual dysfunction" and a pill to "cure" it exists or not.

 

Men look down and simply see a "hard on" or not..... What Viagra/Cialis/Levitra provides is the ability to get one when aroused. How you use it is up to you.

 

So the question is whether a female pill arouses a female and what it's value is. Women will say they are not interested in sex (will not prioritize it in my opinion). I have stated over and over that the spouses we read of in LS, all are aroused, lubricated and enjoy sex when they have it, just don't care enough about it.

 

My view is if the pill will make it better, which many say viagra/cialis/levitra does as well and makes them want it (and that is the key), then why wouldn't they take it?

 

Now let's look at specific cases, the departed JamesM, Giotto, HV and me (though I have to keep saying my issues are no where near the others;)). Our wives acknowledge the problem (and chide us for being childish for our preoccupation/obsession with sex), but would not go as far as to take a pill say once a week that ensures arousal and better sex..... Just not in them.

[giotto]

 

Now let's look at specific cases, the departed JamesM,

 

well, I'm sure he is still with us, in "spirit"...

 

Our wives acknowledge the problem (and chide us for being childish for our preoccupation/obsession with sex), but would not go as far as to take a pill say once a week that ensures arousal and better sex..... Just not in them.

 

Not only that, my wife is taking a pill which does exactly the opposite...