giotto Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The marriage had just turned into something different. I'm not saying I am like everyone or that everyone needs to be like me - but I remember one day that feeling like 'wow, I'm not sad about this anymore' - and I was relieved. It's a tremendous burden to want what you can't have and don't have control over. It's indeed a relief! Still a bit sad, though... Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Jones Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 your attitude and comments over the last 4-6 months have always been an interesting read, but what struck me is you really had no desire to FIX anything..... Maybe understand, but not to fix of care. This seems the logical conclusion and I really am sorry for you. You deserve so much more then your wife and she has sucked the life out of you. YES!!! Why do you guys live like this? I just don't understand. There are women out there that actually like sex and have healthy sex lives. A body in motion stays in motion. I see A written all over this. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. Jones Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I had a revelation a couple of days ago. In a way it was like one of the occasional events you get in science, where the facts of the event are totally clear, but what those facts actually mean is hopelessly nebulous. I realised that it's nearly the middle of March, and my w and I haven't had sex all year (or well back into last year, in point of fact). The revelation was that I simply didn't give a damn. I couldn't care less. Once it would have upset me, made me feel hurt, angry, determined to change something. I didn't feel anything, and that in itself was a thing that I was unprepared for. I haven't tried initiating since way back, and I have no expectation that she ever will, and I just don't give a sh*t. I'm doing plenty of stuff I enjoy, and our M is polite, cordial, efficient and without any disagreement. The emotional temperature is low on both sides (neither of us makes any sort of overture) and sex simply doesn't enter the equation. The change is that once this would have felt like a breach, and a huge issue. Now, I don't care. Weird or what? Sorry HV, I wish I could take back my last post. I did not realize you W had a medical condition. I'm glad you are at peace with this, and as it appears, you love her very much and that is what's important. I hope she gets well soon and good luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's not a revalation when you gave up 10 years ago. You could have solved this problem before it even became a problem. The rest of you can coddle him if you'd like but HV played a huge role in letting his W destroy his manhood long ago. I don't feel sorry for anyone that just watches idlely while his W destroys his self worth. I feel sorry for his wife!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's not a revalation when you gave up 10 years ago. You could have solved this problem before it even became a problem. The rest of you can coddle him if you'd like but HV played a huge role in letting his W destroy his manhood long ago. I don't feel sorry for anyone that just watches idlely while his W destroys his self worth. I feel sorry for his wife!!!!!!! Simple question: do YOU understand the term "mental health issue"? All that is permitted is a simple yes or no. No caveats, no spiel about how you did this or that or the other. Do YOU understand the term "mental health issue", YES or NO. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 simple question: Do you understand the term "mental health issue"? All that is permitted is a simple yes or no. No caveats, no spiel about how you did this or that or the other. Do you understand the term "mental health issue", yes or no. yes................... Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 What I don't understand is why you refused to do anything about this earlier in the relationship. You always comment to people on here that their ideas are wrong, or they will never work, and the worst yet you belittle what they say while putting your higher education on a pedistal. I agree you are very smart and have a wonderful vocabulary, and know the way things should be in a perfect world. But dude come on when are you going to wake up and look in the mirror and realize you have done nothing but spectate you entire life. IMO there is still time for you to be a man and stand up to your wife. I understand she has past issues, but that is still no reason to treat you the way she has treated you. She hasn't exhibited a bit of remorse, and if you refuse to stand up for yourself, she never will. Good luck and I truly mean it Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 yes................... Easy, wasn't it? Right. My W has mental health issues. She is dealing with them, with the help of a trained, professional mental health expert. I don't go in and try to derail what she (the expert) is doing because some guy on an internet discussion board told me something he thinks it's a good idea, any more than I'd tell a surgeon performing an operation that he or she was doing it wrong because someone on the internet told me they thought they knew different. My W's mental health issues go back into her childhood and are way, way beyond the help of amateur internet pshrinks, no matter how well-meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
tnttim Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Fair enough Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I get why the therapist is "in theory" way more skilled than we are. That said: 1. Therapists are paid open ended for their time. If her therapist has a LONG waiting list of patients, then the therapist doesn't have a financial incentive to turn this into the "never ending rehash" of childhood and placing blame on everyone else. Otherwise the therapist may have a financial incentive that is cross purpose with a "timely" cure. 2. Comparing a "therapist" to a surgeon is simply ludicrous. There is no universal agreement on therapeutic treatment. Not even close. Therapists fall into a large number of camps who tend to strongly dispute each others effectiveness. 3. Speaking of effectiveness. There are generally accepted measures of effectiveness for surgery. And those measures are fairly objective. Which is why surgery has become rapidly MORE effective over time. There are no objective measures of the effectiveness of therapy. 4. Surgery requires a small amount of patient cooperation pre-op. Don't lie about the drugs you are taking, avoid aspirin and don't eat. And a moderate to high amount of cooperation post-op depending on the procedure. But even that is fairly objective. Walk this amount per day week 1. Etc. Therapy - hah. MOST of the work is on the patient. 5. I would not tolerate open ended therapy about "control" issues that were harmful to my marriage and in some way had a direct bearing on me. No way, no how. Easy, wasn't it? Right. My W has mental health issues. She is dealing with them, with the help of a trained, professional mental health expert. I don't go in and try to derail what she (the expert) is doing because some guy on an internet discussion board told me something he thinks it's a good idea, any more than I'd tell a surgeon performing an operation that he or she was doing it wrong because someone on the internet told me they thought they knew different. My W's mental health issues go back into her childhood and are way, way beyond the help of amateur internet pshrinks, no matter how well-meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
You Go Girl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think Honorable, that you have embraced: Gawd, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Seems to me at this point that you have entered the wise camp. Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Easy, wasn't it? Right. My W has mental health issues. She is dealing with them, with the help of a trained, professional mental health expert. I don't go in and try to derail what she (the expert) is doing because some guy on an internet discussion board told me something he thinks it's a good idea, any more than I'd tell a surgeon performing an operation that he or she was doing it wrong because someone on the internet told me they thought they knew different. My W's mental health issues go back into her childhood and are way, way beyond the help of amateur internet pshrinks, no matter how well-meaning. She doesn't enjoy having sex with you. Why is that a "mental health issue"? I'm not saying she doesn't have "mental health issues" (whatever that means--was she actually ever diagnosed with anything? If so, what?) Plenty of people with some pretty serious "mental health issues" enjoy sex. Edited March 24, 2011 by PorkRinds Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think Honorable, that you have embraced: Gawd, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Seems to me at this point that you have entered the wise camp. I looked back through all his posts starting about a year ago, can't say I read them all, just skimmed. But when he started posting here he WAS having sex with his wife, maybe unsatisfactory, but at least he was having it. So, his "strategy", whatever it is, isn't working very well. Link to post Share on other sites
You Go Girl Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I looked back through all his posts starting about a year ago, can't say I read them all, just skimmed. But when he started posting here he WAS having sex with his wife, maybe unsatisfactory, but at least he was having it. So, his "strategy", whatever it is, isn't working very well. Not any sex is better than no sex. He had to be a superman, and she always acted like it was under duress to have sex. If sex is a battlefield, is it worth it to get your rocks off? I think not. You would have to have followed his story and paid attention. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Meant to say: 5. Would not tolerate open ended therapy like this that "excluded" me. I get why the therapist is "in theory" way more skilled than we are. That said: 1. Therapists are paid open ended for their time. If her therapist has a LONG waiting list of patients, then the therapist doesn't have a financial incentive to turn this into the "never ending rehash" of childhood and placing blame on everyone else. Otherwise the therapist may have a financial incentive that is cross purpose with a "timely" cure. 2. Comparing a "therapist" to a surgeon is simply ludicrous. There is no universal agreement on therapeutic treatment. Not even close. Therapists fall into a large number of camps who tend to strongly dispute each others effectiveness. 3. Speaking of effectiveness. There are generally accepted measures of effectiveness for surgery. And those measures are fairly objective. Which is why surgery has become rapidly MORE effective over time. There are no objective measures of the effectiveness of therapy. 4. Surgery requires a small amount of patient cooperation pre-op. Don't lie about the drugs you are taking, avoid aspirin and don't eat. And a moderate to high amount of cooperation post-op depending on the procedure. But even that is fairly objective. Walk this amount per day week 1. Etc. Therapy - hah. MOST of the work is on the patient. 5. I would not tolerate open ended therapy about "control" issues that were harmful to my marriage and in some way had a direct bearing on me. No way, no how. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 on LS. He came stated a sad sad story and instead of any progress whatsoever, there has been regression, absolutely no respect or inclusion of him in the discussion or a conversation about his feelings it was all about her and issues that only came to the forefront after their marriage and children. Remember they had a open, varied and happy sex life..... But HV has become defensive and has decided he has no say or role in the process, and defends her to the end when anyone posts and considers all he can do is to give her all the distance she requires. Again all I feel is profound sorrow for him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 I get why the therapist is "in theory" way more skilled than we are. That said: 5. I would not tolerate open ended therapy about "control" issues that were harmful to my marriage and in some way had a direct bearing on me. No way, no how. I think this speaks for a lot of people here. One person's wants are more important that their spouse's health. Nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 She doesn't enjoy having sex with you. Why is that a "mental health issue"? I'm not saying she doesn't have "mental health issues" (whatever that means--was she actually ever diagnosed with anything? If so, what?) Plenty of people with some pretty serious "mental health issues" enjoy sex. She has a mental health issue deriving from problems of fear, control and coercion deriving from her childhood. It's all to do with feeling in control and avoiding coercion, and f*ck-all to do with having sex with me. That's the symptom, not the cause. Keep up... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 on LS. He came stated a sad sad story and instead of any progress whatsoever, there has been regression, absolutely no respect or inclusion of him in the discussion or a conversation about his feelings it was all about her and issues that only came to the forefront after their marriage and children. Remember they had a open, varied and happy sex life..... But HV has become defensive and has decided he has no say or role in the process, and defends her to the end when anyone posts and considers all he can do is to give her all the distance she requires. Again all I feel is profound sorrow for him. Like I said to MEM, I'm not sure what my being in on the therapy and telling the psychotherapist: "Look, I'm a man with needs, now get your finger out and fix my wife so I can get some screwing in" will bring to the party. I'm sure if I sit her down and sneer something like "Snap out of it and get back to having sex, all you need is a good seeing-to" it will solve everything:rolleyes: This is a really easy two-solution problem: I stay and help her (by for now giving her the distance she needs); or I leave. Stay or go. It's THAT simple, and I choose to stay. Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 She has a mental health issue deriving from problems of fear, control and coercion deriving from her childhood. That's not a "diagnosis." It's all to do with feeling in control and avoiding coercion, and f*ck-all to do with having sex with me. That's the symptom, not the cause. Keep up... Also not a "diagnosis." Getting nasty with people who post in your threads is not going to help you. Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not any sex is better than no sex. He had to be a superman, and she always acted like it was under duress to have sex. If sex is a battlefield, is it worth it to get your rocks off? I think not. You would have to have followed his story and paid attention. The point is that things have gotten far worse in the year HV has been posting. Therefore his attitude and approach are making things worse, not better. He doesn't seem to realize that. The interesting thing about his posts is that he attributes 100% of the sexual problems to his spouse. But, if you look at how he replies to people who don't provide total agreement with him, he's extremely defensive and nasty. How likely is it that all the marital problems are due to the wife's problems alone, and not his problems, or perhaps joint/relationship problems? After all this time? Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think this speaks for a lot of people here. One person's wants are more important that their spouse's health. Nice. Not having sex for three months with one's spouse is extremely unhealthy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 That's not a "diagnosis." Also not a "diagnosis." Getting nasty with people who post in your threads is not going to help you. PTSD arising from childhood abuse. Hence it isn't a sex problem, in the same way that malaria isn't a fever problem - the fever's a symptom, not the cause. Hence, me browbeating her into having sex doesn't solve the underlying disorder. TBH, and maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing you bringing very much by way of help. So far, you've picked a few holes and been sacastic. What's your solution to PTSD? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Honorable_Venerable Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Not having sex for three months with one's spouse is extremely unhealthy. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, people go with sex for vastly longer without undue severe medical problems. Explain why my need for a shag trumps her dealing with PTSD? Link to post Share on other sites
PorkRinds Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Like I said to MEM, I'm not sure what my being in on the therapy and telling the psychotherapist: "Look, I'm a man with needs, now get your finger out and fix my wife so I can get some screwing in" will bring to the party. I'm sure if I sit her down and sneer something like "Snap out of it and get back to having sex, all you need is a good seeing-to" it will solve everything:rolleyes: Why is it so important for you to keep insisting that "the problem" is ALL your wife's? Why are you so nasty all the time with people who have different viewpoints? Not helpful. This is a really easy two-solution problem: I stay and help her (by for now giving her the distance she needs); or I leave. Stay or go. It's THAT simple, and I choose to stay. You "help" your wife by refusing to participate in her therapy, when "the issue" involves her marital relationship with you? Link to post Share on other sites
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