Bullied after DDay

[Spark1111]

Look, I haven't said I pine away. You seem to infer that because what happened meant something to me and I am unwilling/unable to rescind.

 

Anything I write here is as much an unknown to you as my compassion.

 

Personally, I find right and wrong essentially difficult. There is cultural right, religious, and the endless philosophical search for what it actually is. I am in pretty distinguished company in finding the issue complex.

 

There is freedom, honesty, beauty, not causing pain, integrity, caring, duty, courage, kindness, faith.

 

But the point at when each or any of these are tested should create tension. Otherwise we do not really evaluate any of them.

 

In my A I valued some of the above more than others. And we all do that all the time.

 

WW....sometimes when we are overwhelmed with feelings and thoughts, we become paralyzed to the point of inertia.

 

I get this.

 

It comes from fear of making the wrong decision for ourself and our loved ones!

 

I have asked this before, because I am a walking bill board for mental health after my childhood.

 

Have you as yet, gone to IC?

 

Because if we are still battling our childhood demons, if we have not slayed them and gave them a proper burial at sea ablaze, nothing is easy to figure out.

 

I see how hard your are trying to do this; I see how your thoughts keep circling; I want you to find some inner peace in your life and to know the joy of having the courage of your convictions.

 

It is liberating!

 

But it is hard to do alone.

[wheelwright]

Wheelwright,

 

I just have to take the time here and give you a huge warm hug. I'd offer you a cup of coffee, yes, all the way across the pond, and have you sit at my table so I could tell you that you are handling the mean, hateful Hell, fire, and brimstone posters with so much grace, dignity, and intelligence.

 

Sometimes it is so very obvious why some get cheated on, but you are not that kind Wheelwright. You don't appear to me as someone who is vindictive or shallow. You put your story out there, risking the bashers you knew would possibly invade your thread but you exposed yourself anyway. The only reason someone does that is because they seek the truth and need to clarify what is right for themselves and those they love. I have always recognized that in you even though we have differing opinions on many issues.

 

You don't seem to have black and white reasoning but then again you weren't raised with that kind of reasoning growing up. If someone can point your torrid past out to you surely they can't fault you for the example set before you can they? Yet they condemn you anyway. Interesting.

 

And though you had that difficult upbringing you turned out perfectly stunning with your graciousness and intellect. These are the qualities that inspire your H to beg to keep you, yet some posters refuse to see that! All they want to do is punish you and if this were my forum I'd delete their accounts because they are offering no support. They only come to bash, probably because they have no one left to bash at home.

 

I feel sorry for them as do you. And I admire the way you handle them.

 

Let me know when you're ready for another cup.

 

Thanks WF.

 

This touched me, and I am happy that at least to someone the fact I put my heart out there is seen as a search for clarity.

 

Wishing you well,

 

WW

[wheelwright]

WW....sometimes when we are overwhelmed with feelings and thoughts, we become paralyzed to the point of inertia.

 

I get this.

 

It comes from fear of making the wrong decision for ourself and our loved ones!

 

I have asked this before, because I am a walking bill board for mental health after my childhood.

 

Have you as yet, gone to IC?

 

Because if we are still battling our childhood demons, if we have not slayed them and gave them a proper burial at sea ablaze, nothing is easy to figure out.

 

I see how hard your are trying to do this; I see how your thoughts keep circling; I want you to find some inner peace in your life and to know the joy of having the courage of your convictions.

 

It is liberating!

 

But it is hard to do alone.

 

I feel a fool because I haven't worked it out.

 

I agree I have hit a point where I need someone else, a counsellor, to help.

 

And you hit the nail on the head when you infer that I need the joy of owning my convictions instead of agonising over them.

 

I read your thread about your 'wobble'. I am sure you will be fine.

 

And I wish you well with that.

[mizliz]

I feel a fool because I haven't worked it out.

 

I agree I have hit a point where I need someone else, a counsellor, to help.

 

And you hit the nail on the head when you infer that I need the joy of owning my convictions instead of agonising over them.

 

I read your thread about your 'wobble'. I am sure you will be fine.

 

And I wish you well with that.

 

Abandonment issues will kill you - take yourself to a counselor. You won't move forward until you slay the dragons.

 

Deal with the ****, first -you owe that to yourself. Love you and move forward.

[wheelwright]

I have to ask, and I ask with respect. Because the lines are not clear for you, the right and wrong thing..How do you teach this to your kids? Kids need clear boundries of what is right and what is wrong. What's acceptable and what isn't.

 

Very good question!

 

I teach them it is wrong to hurt others, and that is understandable and forgivable to do so if it is a reaction to feeling hurt.

 

I have explained that the child in my daughter's class who lost her mother while said mother gave birth to a younger sibling is sad inside and although she is horrible, they are never to be mean to her because she has a sadness deep inside which can make people horrible through no fault.

 

I have explained it is never a good thing to be mean, but that we must overcome our own meanness and that in others.

 

And still find the good in people.

 

I explain that if people are consistently mean, it may not be because they are bad inside, but it may mean you have to avoid them.

 

If my children are mean to one another, I discuss that and tell them it is unacceptable.

 

My children are not mean to others as far as I observe.

 

I try to understand them, because I would want to be understood.

 

I guess I do have my right and wrong inside.

 

I feel in my A I have not worked it out fully. The context has foxed me. The overwhelming emotions have quite put me out.

 

But I recognise from what I said above about kids, that I am not very different here.

[whichwayisup]

Thank you for answering WW and also not for feeling offended by my question.

 

I do hope you make peace with everything with the help of counselling.

[tami-chan]

Beliefs or attempts to justify destructive behavior?

 

No..her attempts to understand herself, her husband, her marriage in light of of her past and/or recent decisions she has made. She is allowed that, you know....just in case in your world you don't know that...well now you do. Perhaps..if/when she gets a breakthrough, then she can live a truer life-more fulfilling and joyful-in her marriage or out of it.

[Star_Bright]

and is her husband not also allowed to put his foot down to someone that apparently still is thinking about being with the OM, cheating again, or leaving?

 

again, as far as the abandoning his children thing, I am wondering if this was just her perception. for example, he drew the line in the sand and said he'd leave if he finds out she is cheating again, or isn't making up her mind whether to stay in the marriage, or leave for the OM. And she interprets this as he will abandon his kids.

 

Because I just can't see it. I'd tell someone I'm leaving them, but I'd never abandon my kids. Everything I do is for them.

 

Exactly, you didn't and no one should. But WW has told us that her husband said this. So either she is lying, which I doubt, because she seems to be pretty honest about her feelings and the events, even when she's being perhaps understandably raked over the coals for them, or he said it.

 

I am with the crowd that thinks it was terribly wrong of him to say he would abandon his kids. No excuse. I also think it would be so wrong to tell the kids he is dead. WTF?! This whole thread amazes me because of the things people think it is acceptable to say to or about their own children.

 

WW I'm glad you're seeking therapy. It has helped me a lot and I hope it helps you. Best wishes.

[WorldIsYours]

No..her attempts to understand herself, her husband, her marriage in light of of her past and/or recent decisions she has made.

 

She understands loud and clear what she's doing and the amount of damage her actions have caused.

 

She is allowed that, you know....just in case in your world you don't know that...well now you do.

 

Allowed what? To cheat and be continually abusive? Sure go right ahead.

 

Perhaps..if/when she gets a breakthrough, then she can live a truer life-more fulfilling and joyful-in her marriage or out of it.

 

She could've had those things if she hadn't done all the cheating and other abuse, and own her faults.

[WorldIsYours]

so her husband came right out and said, "I'm abandoning my kids if you hook up with the OM again!"

 

or did he say "I'm leaving you", or even "I'm leaving you and the kids" ?

 

because the latter i would be skeptical as to his real intentions.

 

you have to remember being f'd over in a way as WW's husband was, emotions run rampant. BS's sometimes say things out of anger not really thinking about what it is we said (although I meant the things I said because it didn't involve saying i would abandon my kids).

 

So I'd dare to guess that the man wouldn't really abandon his kids (they are his right? because she used the word "mine" a couple of times), but rather he is very emotional and is saying things without thinking clearly.

 

to me, infidelity is tantamount to emotional abuse, especially when the abuser is still abusing. And with what WW is posting, that seems to be the case.

 

Otherwise, if she has no intentions of hooking up with OM or leaving for him, whats the problem? Anything he has said would be moot. Even if he shouldn't have said it.

 

 

 

 

what did I miss? tell the kids WHO is dead?

 

 

 

 

what amazes me is that he'd feel the need to say anything like that at all. Why would he say it? Because WW is still betraying him in some way.

 

again, if he truly said he would abandon his kids and meant it, its unacceptable to me as a father who love his kids more than anything. i just cant imagine it.

 

but he wouldn't be saying anything at all if WW wasn't the way she was. her H has been put under emotional distress, isn't thinking clearly, and is pissed. and rightfully so. being betrayed does things to a person.

 

what I really take exception with is the notion that WW is the one being "bullied" here. sorry, not so.

 

Agreed. Her husband is in no way wrong for saying what he said. Period. And he hasn't even left his kids so it's a moot point altogether. Can't predict a betrayed spouse's reaction to a cheater's affair.

[whichwayisup]

Agreed. Her husband is in no way wrong for saying what he said. Period. And he hasn't even left his kids so it's a moot point altogether. Can't predict a betrayed spouse's reaction to a cheater's affair.

 

The thing is, and after reading this thread a bunch of times, WW has alot of unresolved issues from her past and her upbringing, past hurts etc.. Right or wrong, she feels the fact her H threatened to leave her and leave the kids too is a big thing. OF COURSE he wasn't going to follow through on what he said,,out of anger, out of hurt, out of desparation, most would recognize that, but with WW's way of processing she felt abandoned. So this isn't a moot point, infact it's affecting how she feels about her H now. Messed up? Yes, considering she caused alot of the damage that's going on in the marriage by cheating and only staying because exMM chose to stay married.. I just hope she gets some counselling in to fix what's broken inside of her.

 

Whatever the outcome, I just hope both her and her H can put the kids first and co-parent together with respect and not let other stuff get in the way.

[wheelwright]

No..her attempts to understand herself, her husband, her marriage in light of of her past and/or recent decisions she has made. She is allowed that, you know....just in case in your world you don't know that...well now you do. Perhaps..if/when she gets a breakthrough, then she can live a truer life-more fulfilling and joyful-in her marriage or out of it.

 

I have found this thread a healing process.

 

Thank you for the above Tami Chan. It is true as I see things - and I realise you have not always been patient with my difficulty in finding resolution.

 

And thank you to all who have responded and helped me move another step forward.

 

I have found it helpful when people who would naturally condemn my stance have managed empathy and concern.

 

Not because it makes me right, but because it acknowledges my humanity.

 

And that has created a space for some healing in me. Just as voicing my concerns has.

[PorkRinds]

Agreed. Her husband is in no way wrong for saying what he said. Period. And he hasn't even left his kids so it's a moot point altogether. Can't predict a betrayed spouse's reaction to a cheater's affair.

 

I don't see how what the OP's H said to her can be considered "bullying" because she's not supposed to be having an affair in the first place, right?

[tami-chan]

and is her husband not also allowed to put his foot down to someone that apparently still is thinking about being with the OM, cheating again, or leaving?

 

Sure, why not? A WS has no control on the BS's reaction to the cheating. BUT to include , nay, use the kids to hurt the other is a reflection of the kind of person he is...it is a form of betrayal -to the children,,,,so which is worse?

 

again, as far as the abandoning his children thing, I am wondering if this was just her perception. for example, he drew the line in the sand and said he'd leave if he finds out she is cheating again, or isn't making up her mind whether to stay in the marriage, or leave for the OM. And she interprets this as he will abandon his kids.

Ok, first of all..you questioned if the kids were theirs-if you read the OP (original post of this thread) you would have already saved yourself the trouble of wondering if the kids were theirs. I say, while I understand not reading all of the responses, you must "never again" post a response without reading the OP. Second, Wheelwright also posted about how her H said it to her many times---so I do not really know how it can be a matter of 'wrong perception"- because- and this brings us to the third point, they (WW and her H) have discussed separating amicably UNTIL he found out there was an OM. So, check this out, he was ok about ending the marriage but not ok about ending the marriage if there was an OM... interesting, is it not?

 

Because I just can't see it. I'd tell someone I'm leaving them, but I'd never abandon my kids. Everything I do is for them.

Obviously, there is a difference, you are not wheelwright's H and wheelwright is more like you....she would rather stay and work through her issues so that her kids will not have an absent father.

[tami-chan]

She understands loud and clear what she's doing and the amount of damage her actions have caused.

 

 

 

Allowed what? To cheat and be continually abusive? Sure go right ahead.

 

 

 

She could've had those things if she hadn't done all the cheating and other abuse, and own her faults.

 

LOL...oh I get..you can read her mind...As a matter of fact, I do not even know why wheelwright has to post here, when you are making up things about her...If she says this, you say-no, she means this...what in the heck?

 

Not sure what your purpose here on this thread....are you just here to negate everything she says? or make up your version of her story? What is your purpose here? To disparage her?

 

I know I am here because YOU are bullying her-all lies and all designed to cut her down to pieces...and for what reasons? could it be because you are incapable of channeling your anger to the right person who found you unworthy of her fidelity?

[woinlove]

I know I am here because YOU are bullying her-all lies and all designed to cut her down to pieces...and for what reasons? could it be because you are incapable of channeling your anger to the right person who found you unworthy of her fidelity?

 

Unworthy of fidelity? What a mean, nasty way to look at deceiving others. Where does that come from? Report anything you find bullying as it is against the TOS.

[greengoddess]

I know I am here because YOU are bullying her-all lies and all designed to cut her down to pieces...and for what reasons? could it be because you are incapable of channeling your anger to the right person who found you unworthy of her fidelity?

 

 

wow:mad: talk about nasty...

 

I hope no one reports these nasty words and this is allowed to stay up for all to read your true colors.

 

WW seems to be having a nice discussion and really exploring her feelings and has thanked everyone for this thread and there comments. If she has done this why to you feel it is necessary to be so nasty and attacking?

[PorkRinds]

Sure, why not? A WS has no control on the BS's reaction to the cheating. BUT to include , nay, use the kids to hurt the other is a reflection of the kind of person he is...it is a form of betrayal -to the children,,,,so which is worse?

 

He didn't use the kids. He used words. Just words.

[PorkRinds]

I know I am here because YOU are bullying her-all lies and all designed to cut her down to pieces

 

So at least we can all agree, that lying is a bad thing to do.

 

Think about what you just said, and how it applies to wheelwrights relationship with her husband.

[PorkRinds]

Unworthy of fidelity? What a mean, nasty way to look at deceiving others. Where does that come from? Report anything you find bullying as it is against the TOS.

 

Very illuminating. Tami chan perceives "fidelity" as simply a bargaining chip to be given or taken away in a relationship, rather than a fundamental part of someone's character.

[Lorelei_Lane]

I know I am here because YOU are bullying her-all lies and all designed to cut her down to pieces...and for what reasons? could it be because you are incapable of channeling your anger to the right person who found you unworthy of her fidelity?

 

THIS is what I was talking about in my original post. That is TOTALLY uncalled for and very judgmental! Let me guess, you cheated on someone that you deemed unworthy of your fidelity too? Wow, just... wow.

 

I'm glad I'm not the one asking for advice or help on this forum from BS, WS or OM/W, because if this is the type of person that gives advice...

[donnamaybe]

Very illuminating. Tami chan perceives "fidelity" as simply a bargaining chip to be given or taken away in a relationship, rather than a fundamental part of someone's character.

Are you surprised? Really?

 

WW, you've gotten some good advice in this thread. I'm glad you recognize the issues you need to address. I'm not saying the issues are all yours - we ALL have issues. But to be able to have a satisfying life, we have to at least confront if not conquer our inner demons.

 

Good luck to you!

[whichwayisup]

...As a matter of fact, I do not even know why wheelwright has to post here,

 

Tami, CHILL OUT. She can post here if she wants to. OMG, you are arguing with the one person who isn't truly helping her, and advising her more or less to stop posting because you don't like how afew others come across. WHAT about the GOOD advice she's getting? She's a grown woman and can decipher what advice to take and what to ignore. This thread HAS been helpful and she appreciates it. Why not just ignore other replies that are upsetting and bothering you Tami? All it's doing is taking away from her thread, when actually most are getting along, giving her great advice and heartfelt answers. The side bickering is ridiculous and dramatic.

[Ms. Red]

Are you surprised? Really?

 

WW, you've gotten some good advice in this thread. I'm glad you recognize the issues you need to address. I'm not saying the issues are all yours - we ALL have issues. But to be able to have a satisfying life, we have to at least confront if not conquer our inner demons.

Good luck to you!

 

Good Advice! I agree!

[WorldIsYours]

The thing is, and after reading this thread a bunch of times, WW has alot of unresolved issues from her past and her upbringing, past hurts etc.. Right or wrong, she feels the fact her H threatened to leave her and leave the kids too is a big thing. OF COURSE he wasn't going to follow through on what he said,,out of anger, out of hurt, out of desparation, most would recognize that, but with WW's way of processing she felt abandoned. So this isn't a moot point, infact it's affecting how she feels about her H now. Messed up? Yes, considering she caused alot of the damage that's going on in the marriage by cheating and only staying because exMM chose to stay married.. I just hope she gets some counselling in to fix what's broken inside of her.

 

It's irrelevant. Her husband was angry about her cheating and selfishness, and she's trying to use his words to rationalize her behavior so it's wrong. Making a big deal out of nothing. If anyone was abandoned it was him and those kids, not her, because she was about to leave until OM played her.

 

Whatever the outcome, I just hope both her and her H can put the kids first and co-parent together with respect and not let other stuff get in the way.

 

Nothing wrong with taking care of the kids, but that doesn't take over everything else. That doesn't take over the fact that her husband is the victim here.