Control and Sexless Marriages

[threebyfate]

I've yet to see a sexless marriage where they don't fall in the following pattern.

 

Dominant and controlling partner takes charge of relationship, whether overtly or covertly. Sooner or later, the more passive partner starts to rebel but due to pattern set throughout the relationship, finds that doing it overtly causes too much conflict. So then, they shut down in the attraction department, a deliberate or not deliberate way to passive-aggressively resist.

[LittleTiger]

There are way too many variables amongst individuals and relationships for this to be true.

 

Not wanting/having sex with your partner can be due to many different reasons - low libido, depression or other mental/emotional problems, babies or young children requiring attention, feeling unattractive, being tired and overworked, painful intercourse, general marital disharmony, alcoholism, substance abuse, porn addiction.......the list goes on.

 

I'm also wondering how you could presume to know the intimate details of other peoples sexless marriages. Most of the time even the two people concerned don't have a clue what's going on, so for an 'outsider' to assume intimate knowledge of anyone else's marriage rather surprises me - unless perhaps you're a marriage counsellor with several decades of experience?

[threebyfate]

My observations are posted for individuals to agree or disagree with.

 

But I will say you're getting lost in detail. Take a look at the bigger, more long-term picture.

[LittleTiger]

My observations are posted for individuals to agree or disagree with.

 

But I will say you're getting lost in detail. Take a look at the bigger, more long-term picture.

 

You can't look at the 'bigger picture' when it comes to people's marriages - that's my whole point.

 

The way I see it, you've made a vast generalisation - based on what exactly?

 

Lack of sex, dominance, passivity, control, passive-aggressive behaviours, relationship patterns, conflict, rebellion, resistance and attraction are all details. You can't just group them together and say x causes y causes z in all cases.

 

Especially when you have no empirical evidence to back it up.

[threebyfate]

Take a look at the sexless marriage threads on LS. There's a definitive pattern to them.

[WorldIsYours]

Especially when you have no empirical evidence to back it up.

 

Neither do you. And he didn't make a vast generalization. Just look at the threads. Heck look at every single thread on LS! They're all the same.

[sally4sara]

No I see what you're saying TBF. While it does manifest in many different ways it still boils down to an inequity of dealing in the relationship.

 

One doesn't see what they are doing and because they are the more outspoken (or dominant) one of the pair, they resort to the whole "you're reading into/twisting me words, seeing my actions in a more negative light that is fact" stance.

 

The other more introverted one only feels more invalidation and shuts down further for getting nowhere and it spills out in the only ways left to them.

[threebyfate]

Yup, inequity and devaluation.

 

Edit - To expand on this, notice it's "how do I make him/her..."? Sex is no longer something viewed as two consenting adults engaging in an awesome way to connect, it's become an entitled tenet of marriage. "He/she owes me sex".

 

If there's no freedom of choice with your own body, what other freedoms have you lost? How else have you been devalued?

Edited March 17, 2011 by threebyfate

[WorldIsYours]

Yup, inequity and devaluation.

 

Edit - To expand on this, notice it's "how do I make him/her..."? Sex is no longer something viewed as two consenting adults engaging in an awesome way to connect, it's become an entitled tenet of marriage. "He/she owes me sex".

 

If there's no freedom of choice with your own body, what other freedoms have you lost? How else have you been devalued?

 

Many folks in this generation don't care about marriage or relationships. It's all about how good someone can thrust or ride his pole.

[threebyfate]

Many folks in this generation don't care about marriage or relationships. It's all about how good someone can thrust or ride his pole.

Not sure how this is applicable to sexless marriages considering it's an older generation where sexless marriages are more prevalent.

[Floridaman]

Yup, inequity and devaluation.

 

Edit - To expand on this, notice it's "how do I make him/her..."? Sex is no longer something viewed as two consenting adults engaging in an awesome way to connect, it's become an entitled tenet of marriage. "He/she owes me sex".

 

If there's no freedom of choice with your own body, what other freedoms have you lost? How else have you been devalued?

I'd think the onus would be on the refusing partner.

Why all the sudden he/she shuts down with no discussion?

Just a unilateral decision to not engage or rarely engage in intimacy again.

Seems kind of unfair to the other.

 

Yes, it happens with both sexes.

[threebyfate]

I'd think the onus would be on the refusing partner.

Why all the sudden he/she shuts down with no discussion?

Just a unilateral decision to not engage or rarely engage in intimacy again.

Seems kind of unfair to the other.

 

Yes, it happens with both sexes.

Did you read the opening post? Do you expect that the passive partner can withstand the dominant partner in a conflict? Notice it's not about the sex?

[Floridaman]

I've yet to see a sexless marriage where they don't fall in the following pattern.

 

Dominant and controlling partner takes charge of relationship, whether overtly or covertly. Sooner or later, the more passive partner starts to rebel but due to pattern set throughout the relationship, finds that doing it overtly causes too much conflict. So then, they shut down in the attraction department, a deliberate or not deliberate way to passive-aggressively resist.

Which one is the refuser? The dominant one?

[threebyfate]

Which one is the refuser? The dominant one?

I see. So you're saying to the passive one, get tougher with the dominant one who most often controls the finances?

[Woggle]

This might be true in some cases but in many cases the guy does everything in his power to please her and in no way tries to control her yet they barely get a kiss. In most of these marriages the guy seems to be the controlled one.

[Floridaman]

I see. So you're saying to the passive one, get tougher with the dominant one who most often controls the finances?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm asking who the players are and what are their roles.

Do we have a playbill for this production?

[threebyfate]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm asking who the players are and what are their roles.

Do we have a playbill for this production?

The passive one is the one who displays passive-aggressiveness actions aka sex refusal. The dominant one is the one that devalues the passive one until the passive one gets fed up.

[angie2443]

 

Dominant and controlling partner takes charge of relationship, whether overtly or covertly.

 

This would be an abusive relationship. Anytime one partner consistantly controls or attempts to control the other partner, there will be abuse. The control methods can be so subtle that the target partner senses that something is going on, but can't quite put a finger on it. From what I've seen many times, it causes the abused partner to develop a sense of unexplained disgust or fear of the controlling partner. I say unexplained here because I'm thinking more of the subtle cases in which it's hard to tell that something's going on. If someone punches you in the face, you know they were trying to harm you. If someone constantly offers you "constructive" criticisim over minor things, you might think they are just trying to be helpful when infact they are trying to make you feel incompetent (makes it more simple to control you).

 

I got off track. Anyways, while I think there might be some women who refuse sex as a way to "get back" or "get even" with their partner, I think it's more likely that they don't want sex with their partner because their partner makes their skin crawl.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[LittleTiger]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm asking who the players are and what are their roles.

Do we have a playbill for this production?

 

That's my point too Floridaman........and once you start to define the characters you're getting into individual detail.

 

What I think TBF is suggesting is that you, and others in a similar situation, are controlling your wives/partners. Then, being the passive creatures they are, they can't stand up for themselves in any other way, so they 'fight back' through refusing sex in an attempt to take back some control.

 

As angie2443 says, that sounds like an abusive relationship to me and I don't get the impression that any of the guys on here in sexless marriages are in abusive relationships. If there is any form of abuse going on it's against the partner who is being deprived of sex.

 

From what I've read on LS I'd say that the most outspoken males on this subject (with the exception of one) have, metaphorically, been 'beaten in to submission' themselves by their wives. They have given up the fight to maintain any hope or pretence of a normal sex life and are passively 'waiting' for the time when they can set themselves free.

 

In my view, if anybody is in control, it's the partner refusing sex (more often the woman), whether that's passive-aggressive or not and their reason for behaving that way depends on the individual and the marriage.

 

FTR, I do believe that married people have a 'right' to expect sex from their spouse. Even if there is nothing written into the vows, everyone knows that getting married involves a sexual relationship - it's even written into marital law ie you can get your marriage annulled if no sex takes place because the marriage isn't valid.

 

How often a couple has sex should be a matter of negotiation, of course, but to stop doing it in a long term relationship just because you no longer feel like it (if that's the reason), especially when you started off being keen is, in my view, cruel.

 

So, if you insist on generalising, I'm going to side with the partner who isn't getting sex. The 'passive-aggressive' partner who refuses sex is the one who's being controlling.

[giotto]

I've always had the impression it was exactly the opposite... the stronger partner uses sex to dominate the weaker, until the weaker rebels in some form. Of course, some women have other issues and they don't try and dominate, only they don't feel like sex. But it's an interesting POV... can't agree with the fact that all sexless marriage thread on LS are like the one TBF describes... I would say - again - the opposite.

[Floridaman]

This might be true in some cases but in many cases the guy does everything in his power to please her and in no way tries to control her yet they barely get a kiss. In most of these marriages the guy seems to be the controlled one.

That sounds right. Yes, I could do more to please her but it's easy to give up as efforts aren't rewarded or show fruit.

I've always had the impression it was exactly the opposite... the stronger partner uses sex to dominate the weaker, until the weaker rebels in some form. Of course, some women have other issues and they don't try and dominate, only they don't feel like sex. But it's an interesting POV... can't agree with the fact that all sexless marriage thread on LS are like the one TBF describes... I would say - again - the opposite.

I'd describe my wife as the "stronger partner." She's the one who makes the most money, is 3 yrs. older than me, and really is smarter than me. I think I married up.

 

This doesn't mean I consider myself the "weaker" one, though.

However, she does control the sexual frequency, and it drives me nuts...

Edited March 18, 2011 by Floridaman

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I've always had the impression it was exactly the opposite... the stronger partner uses sex to dominate the weaker, until the weaker rebels in some form. Of course, some women have other issues and they don't try and dominate, only they don't feel like sex. But it's an interesting POV... can't agree with the fact that all sexless marriage thread on LS are like the one TBF describes... I would say - again - the opposite.

 

TBF does not like the premise of my previous thread and also has implied that I am the aggressive one, control the finances and laud it over my spouse who withdraws and uses sex in her passive position.

 

I find it sad and laughable that she has made these assumptions and agree with you.

 

In many cases it is the exact opposite or can be just two pigheaded people butting heads.

 

The aggressive partner eventually controls all aspects of the relationship and the passive one is left to post on LS about their sad lot in life.....

 

Actually back in the 50/60's with more defined roles in a family there may have been much less issues concerning sex based on TBF's view of Passive/Aggressive dynamics that existed.

[sally4sara]

I've seen the dynamic she is talking about; it isn't always a male = dominant female = passive scenario either. Its not even always about sex. Just one steam rolling the other. Or one letting themselves get steam rolled depending on how you look at it.

 

At some point though, the passive one has to take responsibility for resorting to passive aggressive tactics rather than growing a spine and speaking their mind. I wonder if one being so dominant and the other being so passive is just down to a lack of compatibility. I know many think a dominant person works best with a passive one to avoid a power struggle, but I usually see this as one of the worst blends.

[Alma Mobley]

I have no idea why the OP would make such a thread -- she is conspicuously absent and contributed nothing to her 'theory.'

 

I read this area of LS on a consistent basis, and I have never gotten the idea the sexless men here are 'controlling.' That's kind of offensive, no?

 

I was once in a sexless relationship too. It wasn't a marriage but a long-term relationship. It certainly didn't follow the pattern the OP listed. In fact, I have lived that life, and what she posted does not apply at all.

[threebyfate]

Okay, that's a weird observation considering how I've been participating in this thread.

 

Alma, were you the withholder or being withheld?