prohibiting gay marriage unjustified - federal brief to canadian supreme court

[wideawake]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

Juggs, how could gay marriage not be based on sex when gay people are trying so hard to convence the rest of the world that they are a minority and deserve civil rights based simply on the fact that they sleep with the same sex?

 

You can't be that simple.

 

based on sex?

 

How about:

 

Based on love

Based on trust

Based on commitment

Based on understanding

 

Basically based on all of the things that all marriages are based on.

 

Like anyone else, sex is just a plus on the side, but it certainly doesn't define the commitment of any two people.

 

Jeez....get over the homophobia already.

[Juggs]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

Juggs, how could gay marriage not be based on sex when gay people are trying so hard to convence the rest of the world that they are a minority and deserve civil rights based simply on the fact that they sleep with the same sex? like I said before gays deserve civil rights too; not "special rights". And passing a law forces me to accept gay marriages, and thus, violates my religous convictions.

 

What "special rights"? You mean the rights everyone else gets? How does that sound fare to you? In a country that is based on freedom of religion, Gays should be denied rights because YOUR God says what they do in the privacy of their own homes is bad?

 

Passing a law making it legal doesn't force you to do anything. Just because it's legal doesn't mean you are forced to like it or accept it...

 

Man.... Whatever happened to "Live and let live"?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

Dyermaker, thats not even funny. How would you like it if your mother was raped and someone made a joke about it?

It wasn't a personal issue at all.

 

I was referring to the story of Soddom and Ghomorra, surely, being so devoted to selective biblical literalism, you're familiar, yes?

 

To quote a previous post:

 

Sodom and Ghomorra, the Angels at Lott's door wanted to come in and be with MEN, but Lott said no, instead, here, rape my daughters. So, where is the protection of children claim? This guy gave his daughters to be raped just so a few angels didn't have sex with a few men.

 

 

Originally posted by sweetbilly

Juggs, how could gay marriage not be based on sex when gay people are trying so hard to convence the rest of the world that they are a minority and deserve civil rights based simply on the fact that they sleep with the same sex?

Dissect that sentence, it's ridiculous. You say, how could gay marriage not be based on sex, which it's not, and then bring up the issue of civil rights? Marriage isn't about sleep, they're ALREADY SLEEPING TOGETHER--Like rabbits! Hot, creamy man love--happens every day. Mmm...gay sex. Don't like it? Too bad, it's part of reality. They're not asking for your approval, your blessing, or a change from you. All they want is their rights.

And passing a law forces me to accept gay marriages, and thus, violates my religous convictions.

You don't have to accept gay marriages. Plenty of people in the south, members of my extended family included, don't accept marriages between white people and black people. NO one is forcing you to abandon your hatred or fear, convictions as you call them.

[Juggs]

You know it's a good debate when I actually hang around my desk after 5pm to see whatr the next post says...

 

You guys/gals ROCK! That includes you, sweetbilly... I admire your consistancy....

[sweetbilly]

actually dyer, if you read the rest of that scripture you'll find that the two angels blinded the people in sodom and escaped before the two girls were raped. So, no God didn't allow it lott in his human wisdom would have allowed a sin to take place. it's so nice that you conveinently quote only what you want to hear.

 

and moi, it does force me to recoginize gay marriages. Any law passed forces the people to adhere to its stipulations under duress. And i've read your take on scripture in another post. You should be careful not to take Gods words out of context.

[sweetbilly]

I agree juggs! I love a good conversation as long as it dosen't get personal.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

it's so nice that you conveinently quote only what you want to hear.

You should be careful not to take Gods words out of context.

In our previous discussion on irony , we left out some great examples. Thanks billy.

[moimeme]

and moi, it does force me to recoginize gay marriages

 

No it does not. But this, clearly, is a pointless discussion and I have sworn off those.

[sweetbilly]

I think you should know dyer. As part of my faith, I am not allowed to be disobedient (the price is simply too high). To be honest, I half heartedly agree with you that homosexuals can be singled out, and are sometimes singled out by cruel, hateful, people (it happens to christains too). However, the message should be, and the one i'm trying to get across, is that human beings are just that,"human" I'm not judging anyone, and saying they're going to hell; I wouldn't hope that on anyone. I prefer to hope that all people will see the error of their ways and embrase Gods will and turn away from the things that destroy man. In my heart,I feel this is the only way to salvation; being a believer must encompass total belief. But being a saved christain also requires an open mind for disceminating between the truth and satans lies. We may never agree with each other on the simantics surrounding scripture, but someday only one side of the arguement will be proven correct: when God shows up and says so; which will not be a good day for many. So for now, lets just agree to disagree and let it go at that, Ok. Frankly, this discussion has been draining me emotionally, and i feel like I keep saying the same things over and over again. So, if you don't mind for now (until i feel better) i'd like to remove myself from this or any other posts concerning religion or god.

[dyermaker]

No one is asking you to be disobedient. I would consider it unconstitutional to force you into a homosexual marriage, just as I find it unconstitutional to deny others the rights to do so.

 

It may not be evident by my open-mindedness, but I'm a catholic, and also believe that sex should be between a man and a woman after marriage. However, I'm also an American, and the thought of legislating my catechism disgusts me.

[sweetbilly]

I understand you don't like the idea of legislating morality. In truth, I don't either, and i don't see it as enforceable anyway. But I'm curious, why then, if you are a christain, would you allow man's desires to come between you and God. True christianity has always suffered to follow Gods commands and takes sides concerning Laws, morality, or any other human delima, and so does God. In my life, I try not to give the devil a foothold. There's no room for a mistake, don't you agree?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by sweetbilly

But I'm curious, why then, if you are a christain, would you allow man's desires to come between you and God.

When you watch the news and see tales of grisly murders, do you feel like killing?

 

The biological predispositions of my fellow man in no way conflict with my relationship with God. I don't take on myself the sins of other people, nor preoccupy myself with judging the gravity of those sins.

In my life, I try not to give the devil a foothold. There's no room for a mistake, don't you agree?

I have no fear of going to hell. I'm not on that path yet, I've asked.

[moimeme]

Satan wants us to hate because that's in clear contravention of Jesus' direct commandment to us. Every ounce of hate you put out towards anyone feeds Satan's lust to win hearts from Jesus.

[sweetbilly]

Please don't take what I meant out of context. I didn't say you were going to hell. What I meant is when Man forces rightousness out of his life the devil moves-in and confounds the mind of man, by making him feel that good is actually bad and vicevera. And if man refuses to condemn certain actions, isn't that in fact, condoning them.

[Juggs]

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!

 

I acknowledge and accept and support 150% sweetbilly's right to feel the way he does. I do not personally agree with him, but, we're in America, I don't have to agree with him... And I love that!

 

Bottom line is, this is about a LAW.... it really has nothing to do with religion. In this country people have the right to believe the way they wish to believe and to pursue happiness without fear of persecution.

 

A LOT of posts ago, someone made the comment comparing inter-racial relationships with gay relationships.... something to the effect of being born black or choosing to be gay.... let's step back a bit further and say rephrase that: choosing to be with someone outside of your race or choosing to be with someone of the same sex.... It should be legal to do either and have the same rights. All involved are consenting adults with their own beliefs and convictions. Should they not be allowed the same freedom that sweetbilly has to believe the way he chooses?

 

Who you love is who you love and no one should have the right to tell you it's illegal based on their own personal beliefs. 2 loving caring people who want to spend the rest of their lives together and support each other through the good and bad is a beautiful thing regardless of gender.

[jenny]

great post, juggs.

 

freedom of speech does not necessitate the right to be listened to.

 

in any debate of noise versus civil rights, i know where i stand. but i'm glad noise is heard, as well.