_For those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

[Floridaman]

I’ve seen many “I’m a shy guy and can’t get any dates!” type of threads by guys in their late 20s, 30s and 40s who need help.

 

Some of these guys have never asked a girl out or only dated sporadically.

 

While I don’t consider myself an expert at dating, and certainly didn’t experience a lot of success when I dated, I have contributed some thoughts in numerous threads. Thought I’d post some questions and my responses.

 

I’ll start listing questions/ points and then let others who need help post questions.

 

I don’t want to dominate this thread, just get the ball rolling.

Guys that need help can post here.

I'll post some points and others can respond.

Perhaps we can all help each other here.

 

The quotes are actual comments inexperienced guys have made in posts.

There’s a lot here but I think it addresses concerns many have.

[Floridaman]

I don't approach because I don't want to be shot down and risk being called a creep.

You gotta take chances, just like when you look for a job. You don't have to apply for a certain job, but you won't get it if you don't apply.

I'm a bit overweight and I have no idea what to do when it comes to clothes. A number of women have said they like how I look. I don't really know where I stand here.

Do you have a sister, cousin or other relative who might be able to give you some advice in the store about clothing that will look well?

 

Speaking of cousins and relatives, ask them if they know a girl that might be interested in you. I met my future wife on a blind date from a married female business colleague who had been setting her best friend up on blind dates. I was the last blind date my wife had...

I've never asked out any woman in my social circle. Why would I want to ruin a friendship, which is what I fear would happen? My social circle is not very big as it is.

 

You're missing out if you don't at least try in your social circle. You already know these women so you're ahead there as you have some things in common already.

 

If they say no, it won't be the end of the world. Just keep pushing and you'll eventually find some success.

 

If you feel nervous about asking out someone you already know, please carefully consider some women you know that you could ask out. It might pay off.

 

I only recently realized I could have asked out a girl I sat next to in college. She was always making conversation with me, but I never picked up on this. I had at least one thing in common with her: that class. My mistake and loss for not considering asking her out.

I don't have much self esteem or confidence. I don't seek out hot women. I really seek out any women. Just one comes along and talks to me and I wish it could go further.

......

i've made the mistake of having been a doormat in the past. i try to take other people's feelings in consideration before my own...

......

i'll be the first to admit i'm not a great looking guy. not great attitude or bright outlook on life, overweight. i'm working on making improvements.

I just feel i'm at the mercy of a woman giving me a chance

Then work on that. You don't want to stay in the same place (rut) that you're in, no?

 

Read some books on how to gain confidence.

 

I wasn't very confident nor conversational in my teens and 20s either.

 

A good book on what to say to almost anyone is How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. If you're not good at starting conversation, that book should help.

I 'm painfully shy and embarrass easily. I can't help but feel that some of this is because of a lack of an intimate connection (don't mean sexual) with someone. I've known others who were more shy than me, but seems once they had a best friend, girlfriend, etc. they opened up, weren't afraid anymore.

Start conversing more with your friends, then make new friends by meeting some of their other friends and friends of friends. Pretty soon, you'll find you have many friends and may make you less inhibited in conversation.

 

Use your friends and the forums as practice for real life conversation, where it really counts.

As you're great at conversation online, are you using Internet dating sites?

Perhaps improving your communication skills could help land you a date.

 

In real life conversation, try to open up and don't get too worried about things.

So you say something wrong or mispronounce a word. Just laugh it off. The other people in the conversation might playfully laugh it off too as you didn't intentionally mean to mix something up like anthrax (the chemical sprayed to kill people) and Amtrak.

[mr.dream merchant]

I'll take a shot at it.

 

How can I stop being the guy women want to date in a serious LTR? (these are women I know have NSA fun, and I want NSA fun from them, not a LTR)

[Floridaman]

my whole life i've been surrounded by women who want nothing but hot guys. i've gotten resentful.

i figure i'm gonna be someone's second (or third choice) once they hit a certain age and their biological clock is ticking. so i didn't get the young vigorous woman, i get the version that kinky sex means twice in a month on a weeknight with the lights on.

Your view may change - or you may need an "attitude adjustment" as you get older.

When you get closer to 30, you'll find you're not attracting those young 20-year-olds and when you do date them, you may find they really don't have that much depth anyway and you may look to women closer to your own age or go for women older than you.

 

I avoided the young girls who didn't seem to have eyes for me and went for the more attainable.

 

During my late 20s and early 30s- I purposefully dated women who were a 3-5 years older than me, figuring I'd have a better chance of finding one of them as a life partner, which is what I was desperately seeking at that lonely time in my life.

Put two women side by side with same personality but one plain, one hot, i'm probably gonna go for the hot one

That's a critical mistake you're making.

The "hot" ones have lots of choices and guys always going after them.

 

In supply & demand, Less supply = more demand = higher prices (more competition).

 

The other woman, the one you may call plain, she likely doesn't have so many opportunities and therefore might be more receptive to you asking her out.

 

These women may be "plain" looking, but I don't think they'd be ugly. Some of them may have trouble dating too.

Who knows, you could form some relationships. Looks aren't everything you know.

 

Recently met again the 27 y.o. daughter of a client during a call on this client's office. This guy is big in the industry I work in.

I think most would consider his daughter rather plain in terms of looks, but she seems to be a sweet, nice quiet girl. Was pleasantly surprised to hear she had married.

 

Don't want to be mean here, but if you consider yourself "average" or "not a great-looking guy," why would you waste your time trying for the so-called "hot" girls?

 

They're not likely to give you the time of day. Why subject yourself to that kind of abuse? Wouldn't that be like hitting a brick wall?

 

I wasn't average or anything near "ugly," so I'm told- even in my 40s - but long had trouble getting women interested in me. My problem may have been more on self-confidence. It happens to all.

 

Adjust your 'specs and look towards the more attainable. There may be more of those available anyway.

 

I didn't date many "hot" girls and truth be told, didn't want to. Many don't have a lot of depth. Many are horrible at relationships and not that loyal, IMHO, and have pasts you may not be interested in.

[fishtaco]

I'll take a shot at it.

 

How can I stop being the guy women want to date in a serious LTR? (these are women I know have NSA fun, and I want NSA fun from them, not a LTR)

 

Be a sexy loser.

[Floridaman]

I’m a virgin. I’m afraid to have to say that.

Don’t bring up the fact that you're a virgin or have very little dating experience early in the relationship.

Just like it wouldn't be appropriate for you to pepper her with questions about her sexual history. Could cause some uncomfortableness.

 

That kind of information should wait until much later when the two of you are talking about dating exclusively or planning to get physically intimate.

Even at the latter stage, I wouldn't bring it up unless you're petrified or something.

If she asks, answer honestly. She may be able to help you.

 

Don't think any woman worth her salt will ridicule you for your lack of "experience."

Many women want men who haven't slept with everything that has legs... and it shows some maturity and restraint on your part to not be a skirt chaser.

My problem is I'm not social, I dont drink, I'm not good at first contacts and I need to get to know people before I get involved. I have made many attempts online but nothing has panned out

Keep at the online dating. Talk as much as you can with women, and use it to get introductions. Once you get to know a woman better through such internet conversations, and if she feels like she could be someone you can relate to, suggest a personal meeting.

 

Ask to go out on a simple date, for something non-formal like going for coffee or lunch.

There, you'll get to personally see what the other person is like and pick up on any chemistry. Your conversation should also be much better too.

 

If it looks promising, suggest dinner the next weekend or an activity like bowling or going to a museum.

 

The key is to get out and date.

 

It's like trying to ride a bike.

So you fall off and scrape your knees? Doesn't feel good I know but did you quit and say you'd never ride a bike again?

 

You got back on it and soon you were more comfortable and felt you could ride that bike to the end of the world...

 

It's the same with dating.

Keep asking girls out. They’re not monsters.

Even if most of them say no, it isn’t the end of the world. You have more to gain than lose.

I can be antisocial. When out somewhere and talking to a woman, I wonder if it is embarrassing to her and are her friends going to make fun of her for having talked to me?

Don't think that. Don't ever worry about what other people think of your actions if your actions are proper. If those women laugh at you for that, they're not the kind of girls you'd want to be dating anyway.

I won't say i'm ugly (although one time I emailed my picture to a girl I was chatting with) she said I was ugly and to leave her alone. That kind of hurt a little and planted a seed of self-doubt.

That girl - noticed I didn't say WOMAN - was the female equivalent of a pr**k.

Even if it were true, that's nothing anyone should say to another living human being. So take things like that with a grain of salt.

 

Sounds like you need to look for some better quality of girls

[mogul]

I'll take a shot at it.

 

How can I stop being the guy women want to date in a serious LTR? (these are women I know have NSA fun, and I want NSA fun from them, not a LTR)

 

Just say whats on your mind. Be blunt, and don't over think things.

[Floridaman]

Many of you are analytical and do a lot of thinking in your work and job searches. Perhaps you could apply a similar strategy to meeting women.

 

Seriously, make a list of the eligible girls in your social circle that might be receptive to you asking them out.

Write down what you know about them that might be similar to (or different from) you.

 

It's assumed these girls are similar in age to you (within 1-5 years).

 

Such a list might look like this (these are your notes, not mine):

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Girl A- Likes poetry (like me). Likes similar music. Often talks with me about ____.

 

Girl B- Likes international people and cultures. Speaks another language (like me).

Similar religious feelings. Have talked about this ____ topic together.

 

Girl C- Very expressive. Likes ___ hobby I like. Likes movies I like.

 

Girl D- From a small town like me.

Not very outgoing. Kind of quiet and shy. (like me)

Doesn't date a lot (like me). Might say yes...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

When making such a list, don't focus on looks as that's not important here.

 

Don't get into sexual history or dating history, as you likely won't know any of that anyway early in dating. (Unless you know that one lived with some guy and has a kid or drinks heavily, is known to be promiscous, etc. and those kind of things may be deal-breakers for you...)

 

The single guys here probably only know things in general about the women they might consider asking out.

This strategy might help focus efforts..

[Floridaman]

Several (women) have asked about previous dating experiences on first dates. It really unnerved me and I tried to avoid the subject.

 

Even if I get past a first date and have something great going, I know I may be asked questions about my dating history and will be fearful that she'll run from me when she finds out about my inexperience.

 

I want to be open yet at the same time I'm afraid to be. I don't have an answer. I think this may be common among late bloomers.

Unless you're acting really nervous and giving off bad vibes, most women aren't going to question your dating experience on a first date, so you shouldn't worry about that.

Besides, there is no need for anyone to disclose their entire life history during a first date.

 

Those kinds of questions don't really belong in first dates and those women were wrong to drill you on that.

 

If you do get such questions, provide only short answers and don't go into specifics.

 

Remember, you're not with her to tell her everything. She doesn't need to know everything so soon. Save the deep stuff for later.

 

Say something general like, "Yes, I've dated before..."

 

You could say "I like dating a number of people (which is true)..."

"I find meeting people is a good way to...." -- also true. You're not lying. You do like meeting people.

 

If you get a personal question about your supposed "inexperience," you could say, "That's kind of personal and I'd rather not talk about it so soon..."

 

Or, conversely, turn the tables and ask her about her experience. See how she reacts to that.

 

^^^^^^

 

You've been in job interviews and have read the books on how to answer the tough Q's and what to say and what not to say.

 

For example, you're asked in a job interview,

"Tell us your biggest weakness..." or "Tell us the biggest mistake you ever made..."

 

This ain't confession!

You'd be a fool to disclose something you really messed up on or call attention to a weakness with you (I'm too shy...etc).

You don't want to talk yourself out of getting the job!

 

Instead, you should say,

"I try to learn from all my experiences. I learn from mistakes and use that knowledge to improve my productivity and help the company do X, Y and Z...." That kind of thing.

 

If a woman keeps pressing, say, "I can't recall right now...” (which could also be true).

[Floridaman]

I'm a writer and interview people for a living, and formerly worked in the broadcast news media in front of microphones and cameras. You'd think I'd be very comfortable asking questions.

 

Get this:

On dates, I flopped often and wasn't always great with conversation, primarly bec. of lack of self confidence and being a late bloomer as well. I think I tried but often your date won't talk much.

 

But that's what dates are all about: conversation and getting to know each other and hopefully attracting the other person.

 

Asking a lot of Q's and keeping the talk focused on your date would be good.

If you get bored, just say so, that usually revs up interest. Or change the topic to something you think she'd be interested in.

 

Ask a lot of open-ended vs. yes & no questions.

 

Instead of asking, "Do you like _____,"

ask

"What's your favorite..." or "Tell me why you like to travel..."

 

You could almost never run out of things to talk about.

[Floridaman]

How do you approach women?

It depends where I'm at but it starts off with "Hi" and a small conversation and toward the end, I ask for her number or I ask would you like to go out.

Try not to ask them a yes-no question like, "Would you like to go out with me?"

That approach sounds kind of weak or unimaginative, like you haven't put much thought into going out with her.

 

Try to be more specific.

Like ask her about going to a play or seeing an exhibit in a museum.

 

Instead of asking a direct question where it's easy to answer yes or no –

like "Would you like to go to a movie with me?" –

try to ask something like,

"I'd like you to join me for dinner Sat. night at this neat restaurant that has a band...."

 

See how it might make it a little harder for a woman to say no to that kind of invitation?

She'd have to work on it a little more than just say "no..."

 

If she says, "That sounds nice, but...." You could interrupt (kindly) and say,.... "But...???"

 

That might force her to think why she's saying no.

 

If she says, "I don’t want to be in a relationship...." ,

You could answer, “Me neither… I’m just looking for friends” (or something). That is true too.

 

In my line of work, I interview people. I want longer responses or quotes I can use, so I try to avoid asking yes or no questions.

 

Use that kind of line to turn around what could be a turn-down into a dating opportunity.

 

Suspect that the "I don't want to be in a relationship" is just an excuse or a way of avoiding saying "no."

Sadly, didn't realize it at the time.

 

If I had turned a woman's initial reluctance around ------ much like a good salesman would have done if a customer walked into the new car lot and expressed nonchalance or disinterest ------ I might have snagged more dates...

[Floridaman]

My first date with my future wife, a blind date set up by her best friend, did not go so well. (Her best friend set her up on dates a lot).

If I had followed my first hunch, I wouldn't have dated her for several years and later married her.

 

She seemed nice and was attractive enough, but didn't express much interest in me and wasn't as conversational as me and the other couple. I tried to bring her into the conversation, but only got short responses.

 

As I was 30 and seriously looking for a life partner, I told myself earlier in the eve., "This isn't gonna work. She's not interested in me. I'll get through this night and try to date someone else..."

 

Her best friend recently told us she sensed it was a "disaster date" so Plan B had us going for a drive around town. At the pier at the lake, she and I found ourselves alone and talked more and she seemed okay.

 

During the next week or two, I kept thinking it might be good to go out with her. So I called her friend and got her telephone number...

 

So don't judge a potential date solely by the way things go on that first date. First impressions aren't always accurate.

 

To think that I almost ruled her out of my life. We've been married 14 years now...

[ivalm]

Hm.. ok, how about this. My problem isn't asking women out, or keeping up conversation, etc... rather, I have pretty much no (well, one, and I'm pretty sure she has a BF) women in my social circle. On all socials I go to women are rare, and those that are there are invariably not single. In fact, in the past month I've had two girls who I chatted up, who gave me their numbers agreed for lunch, and when I looked them up on facebook they had BFs.. it's silly. Last week, I went on a trip to a museum. There were 34 people on the bus, 15 couples, I kid you not. The 4 NOT couples were me, another guy, and two girls who looked a bit older than me (it was a grad student crowd, I'm 2nd year grad but 22, which makes me a bit young). Even on grad mixers at the humanities department (grr.. having to walk across campus to them ) there are still WAY more guys than girls. Yes, I could go to bars/clubs but I just don't feel comfortable looking for an LTR in a bar.. I tried various dance classes and always there were more guys than girls there and the girls were generally quite a bit older than me (which begs to question, we have thousands of undergrad coeds.. what do they do with their time?). So, where should I look for girls? I am seriously incapable of just stopping girls on a street in significant quantity. In undergrad at least there were classmates, so having 4 classes with 300 people each quarter gave me opportunity, as a grad student, I still haven't figured it out.

[Floridaman]

My meeting my future wife on a blind date brings another lesson for those single and getting late in life:

value friends and their connections.

Maybe a relative or one of your friends or business colleagues knows someone you could go out with and arrange for a blind date.

 

On your friends, have a frank discussion with a couple of them, men and women, in private. Having some female acquaintances/friends is good bec. they likely know more women than your male friends.

 

If these people are real friends, they'll understand you need companionship. You shouldn't feel bad about talking with them about that.

After all, they found someone to love. Who wouldn't want others to experience the same happiness?

 

In my mid-20s, I worked a job in the media where my weekends were Mon. and Tue., so that really limited my social interaction. Started going to church singles groups (few churches in that medium-sized town had dedicated or large singles groups).

If I was single now, I would look into church and other singles groups, business networking meetings (ala the Chicago ABC Industry assn.- there may be single women there), etc.

 

The married woman who introduced my wife to me, I met her through another woman I had dated a year or so earlier. She was a friend of this EX's, and I had met this married woman in networking on a job search.

 

She was now working in my field and came to my office. We went on a business lunch. I happened to tell her how at 30, I was finding this town a horrible place to meet women as most were in their early 20s (I couldn't relate) or 40/divorced/kids, which I wasn't interested in.

 

She told me she had a friend in the next big city (an hour's drive away. Think Dallas vs. Denton or West Palm Beach vs. Miami/Ft. Lauderdale) but that she was "shy." Would I be inerested in meeting her?

 

Of course! Said yes but didn't get my hopes up bec. someone else once said they'd set me up but never did. A week later I get a call about them going to be at a certain restaurant....

 

So don't discount the value of "working" your friends and business colleagues. They may know someone who might make for a good date.

[Floridaman]

Hm.. ok, how about this. My problem isn't asking women out, or keeping up conversation, etc... rather, I have pretty much no (well, one, and I'm pretty sure she has a BF) women in my social circle.

 

On all socials I go to women are rare, and those that are there are invariably not single.

In fact, in the past month I've had two girls who I chatted up, who gave me their numbers agreed for lunch, and when I looked them up on facebook they had BFs.. it's silly.

They may have listed having a BF on FB, but perhaps they were just casual dating or not exclusive? Or maybe they had broken up and she hadn't changed her status.

Did you go out with any of them?

 

In the last couple of months of one LTR I was involved with in my late 20s, I sensed it was ending (she didn't seem enthusiastic about me, the writing was on the wall). So I went out with a woman and tried to see if there could be any possibility of this woman and I hitting it off... That didn't work out, so stayed where I was and that relationsihp ended a couple of months later.

Only sayin' this bec. some may be in a relationship but may be looking elsewhere... it happens.

Yes, I could go to bars/clubs but I just don't feel comfortable looking for an LTR in a bar..

Yeah, wouldn't suggest doing the bar scene if you don't like bars or drinking.

When I first moved to one city I lived in, used to meet a woman who worked in my line of work (at a competitor) at a bar. Her other guy friends were there too. I just seemed like one of her many guys. I hated the bar scene, the smoke burned my eyes and I didn't drink. We did go on some dates, but I stopped going to that bar.

Last week, I went on a trip to a museum. There were 34 people on the bus, 15 couples, I kid you not. The 4 NOT couples were me, another guy, and two girls who looked a bit older than me (it was a grad student crowd, I'm 2nd year grad but 22, which makes me a bit young). Even on grad mixers at the humanities department (grr.. having to walk across campus to them ) there are still WAY more guys than girls.

...

I tried various dance classes and always there were more guys than girls there and the girls were generally quite a bit older than me (which begs to question, we have thousands of undergrad coeds.. what do they do with their time?). So, where should I look for girls? I am seriously incapable of just stopping girls on a street in significant quantity. In undergrad at least there were classmates, so having 4 classes with 300 people each quarter gave me opportunity, as a grad student, I still haven't figured it out.

Don't know what to tell you about the college scene. I dated in college but wasn't overly successful. Was involved in student groups, where you would think you could meet women, but circumstances didn't work out.

 

Your problem is meeting a woman your age in the college setting.

 

When I first went to grad school in my late 20s, attended a night class in the summer.

Decided I needed to be more bold and start asking more women out.

 

Saw a woman sitting in the chairs in the hallway before class.

I sat next to her and started a conversation, like on what courses she's taking, what field she's in, etc.

She was a few years older than me.

 

Asked her to a dinner date or something the following weekend. That was the LTR (1.5 years) where I met the married businesswoman who introduced me to my future wife...

 

At 22, you're still young and should have many more opportunities.

Bec. you won't have as many opportunities once you get into the cubicle world, make the most of the opportunities you have now.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Floridaman

[ivalm]

At 22, you're still young and should have many more opportunities.

Bec. you won't have as many opportunities once you get into the cubicle world, make the most of the opportunities you have now.

 

Well, my line of work is not exactly cubicle geared, but agreed, it will be uber-male dominated

 

At any rate, your suggestions, correctly, state to grab all opportunities by the horns.. carpe diem

 

What always made me wonder is this: the uni has a roughly one to one male/female ratio, yet I seem to see significantly more males around me, even when I stray from my department/immediate social circle. It would stand to reason that there must be other social settings in which there is an overabundance of females..

[dreamingoftigers]

Social activist groups for women causes?

 

Not as many guys and the ones that do go are much more attractive because they look like they "get it"

[ivalm]

Social activist groups for women causes?

 

Not as many guys and the ones that do go are much more attractive because they look like they "get it"

 

I'm always a bit scared that they would be filled with man-eating terrestrial piranhas...

 

On a more serious note, are there really no gender neutral activities out there? I really don't think I'd fit in a feminist org; I'm also not sure I would like to date a girl who has in her mentality that men oppress women, as I feel this would definitely play out in any kind of relationship.

 

At any rate, it's not like I'm ugly.. I'm a bit taller than most and have good weight/symmetrical features/etc Apart from being somewhat poor (as all grad students), I think I'm a good catch -- I'm very well educated and knowledgeable in many areas including both arts and sciences, I am kind/caring to people around me, and I have a pretty bright future with my career choice, last guy who gradated from my lab immediately got a $100k+ job, which is actually typical (I'll conceded that getting a PhD will take 3-4 more years though )

Edited March 20, 2011 by ivalm

[Floridaman]

Well, my line of work is not exactly cubicle geared, but agreed, it will be uber-male dominated

 

At any rate, your suggestions, correctly, state to grab all opportunities by the horns.. carpe diem

 

What always made me wonder is this: the uni has a roughly one to one male/female ratio, yet I seem to see significantly more males around me, even when I stray from my department/immediate social circle. It would stand to reason that there must be other social settings in which there is an overabundance of females..

If you will be working in a male-dominated field where the work is in laboratory, it likely could be even harder to find women than in an office environment.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

My problem is mostly tied to Social Anxiety, Florida. How do I get over that?

 

When I fear even walking up to people at the checkout line at the store, male or female, how do I get the guts to do it if it's a woman I'm attracted to?

 

I am not unattractive, although a bit overweight (chubby.) I wear fitting clothes, and put the ones in storage that don't fit, so it's not like I'm walking around wearing clothes that emphasize that I'm fat. However, it's that, plus the idea that I'm nerdy and "not good enough" (compared to other guys my age) that makes me panic when asking out a girl, and as a result, she always says no.

 

I mean, seriously. You always see the "hot guys" as being superior on tv shows and in movies and music. You don't really see any fat or nerdy guys in entertainment. The only one I can think of is the lead singer from The Decemberists, and that's just because he's such a damn good songwriter and singer.

[betterdeal]

I mean, seriously. You always see the "hot guys" as being superior on tv shows and in movies and music. You don't really see any fat or nerdy guys in entertainment. The only one I can think of is the lead singer from The Decemberists, and that's just because he's such a damn good songwriter and singer.

 

If what's on offer is a miserable person who stares at his shoes, mumbles a lot and doesn't say much, what's the appeal, whether they're a fat nerd or a well toned jock?

 

If you are concerned about your weight, if you are uncomfortable about it, lose some weight. You'll feel better for it.

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

If what's on offer is a miserable person who stares at his shoes, mumbles a lot and doesn't say much, what's the appeal, whether they're a fat nerd or a well toned jock?

 

If you are concerned about your weight, if you are uncomfortable about it, lose some weight. You'll feel better for it.

 

That really does make me feel better. I mean, really.

 

If what's on offer is a bunch of stuck up bitches who think that the world shines out their ass, then maybe I'm better off alone? I was born this way, I've always been shy...it's not like I suddenly became shy overnight.

 

And I can't change. I'm on medication for anxiety, and while it has helped with the panic attacks, it hasn't cured me of my shyness. That is a personality trait that won't disappear, ever.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm always a bit scared that they would be filled with man-eating terrestrial piranhas...

 

Um, like Breast Cancer fundraising or something.... not the "Million-Woman March for the removal of Testicles from University Campus." Or a group for the education of girls in starving countries etc.

 

 

 

On a more serious note, are there really no gender neutral activities out there? I really don't think I'd fit in a feminist org; I'm also not sure I would like to date a girl who has in her mentality that men oppress women, as I feel this would definitely play out in any kind of relationship.

 

No one said "Feminist Organization." In fact I wanted to post a thread earlier about how I am sick of seeing some women use Feminism as an excuse to not act sexually responsible and how it is setting us back from being taken seriously and alienating both men and women alike.

 

I think that if you met a girl at one of the healthier places that women meet to do some good in the world, it would show that you are against some of the more crappy things and again that you "get it."

 

I.e.: a health related one: that you have compassion and sense to try to make a difference (that would get a lot of regular girls kind of swooning).

 

a social change one: depending on which one, but if it was a "get girls educated one" then that would look like you are a fair and balanced person.

 

 

At any rate, it's not like I'm ugly.. I'm a bit taller than most and have good weight/symmetrical features/etc Apart from being somewhat poor (as all grad students), I think I'm a good catch -- I'm very well educated and knowledgeable in many areas including both arts and sciences, I am kind/caring to people around me, and I have a pretty bright future with my career choice, last guy who gradated from my lab immediately got a $100k+ job, which is actually typical (I'll conceded that getting a PhD will take 3-4 more years though )

 

That is great that you have all of that going for you, but like any product that wants to sell itself, you need to find your consumer base and market yourself properly.

 

In truth most women out there are going to be less concerned with your dollar value; they will be interested in your intelligence though, proven time and time again). But more often they will be interested in your ability to socialize. Men with verbal acuity do extremely well with women, in fact all of the sexual addicts that I know that did the multiple women thing are all incredibly good at socializing, scarily so. I am not saying become a sexual addict, but that they clearly developed what worked in order to deceive swaths of women into sleeping with them and carrying on pseudo-relationships with them. A lot of that came with how they marketed themselves.

[betterdeal]

That really does make me feel better. I mean, really.

 

It all depends on how you interpret it! If you think, "you're right, I don't want a misery guts, and I can see that most other people probably don't either. Maybe it is personality that matters most, and, anyway, being happy is a goal in itself" then you're progressing. But if you choose to see it as an insult, then you are where you are now. It is your choice.

 

If what's on offer is a bunch of stuck up bitches who think that the world shines out their ass, then maybe I'm better off alone?

 

And with that attitude, why are you here asking about how to get a date?

 

I was born this way, I've always been shy...it's not like I suddenly became shy overnight.

 

Shyness is mostly a learnt behaviour, not a biological one. You became shy over a period of years as you learnt it to be the best way to handle things you were afraid of. There are better ways to handle fear, and you can learn them, if you choose to.

 

And I can't change.

 

Yes you can change. Read up on assertiveness training, if you want to change. It doesn't mean being loud, or arrogant. It means being more sure of yourself, of who you are, what you want, and being able to stand up for those things.

 

I'm on medication for anxiety, and while it has helped with the panic attacks, it hasn't cured me of my shyness. That is a personality trait that won't disappear, ever.

 

So why the merry hell are you here asking about how to date if you know you won't ever make the small leaps to get over your fear, your anxiety?

 

The answer is that you know you want to and you know you can. You're a bright, decent person, and you want to be able to get more out of life. Instead of trying to climb the mountain that is a full-fledged monogamous relationship, start in the foothills. The devil is in the detail. The more you practice being assertive, being confident, the more you become assertive, confident, and with each little victory you become happier. Practice smiling at home. Then practice smiling in the store when you get to the checkout. Then practice saying "hey! thanks a lot!" and do that in the store, and so on and so on. You'll get to the top, if you want to; you just need to do a bit of climbing.

 

Thank your lucky stars you aren't in a relationship because it means you have a lot of time to develop your self, your skills at dealing with people, without being seriously obligated to someone else who may well also have her own issues and quirks to deal with.

 

There's some good books out there that I have read in the past year, and by practising the techniques they teach, you will become more self-confident and more happy. Then at some point you stop wondering what you can do to get a girl and start considering if the girls you find everywhere meet up to your requirements.

 

I recommend these books to start with:

 

• When I Say No, I Feel Guilty: How to Cope, Using the Skills of Systematic Assertive Therapy
  
• Too Nice for Your Own Good: How to Stop Making 9 Self-Sabotaging Mistakes
  

 

We all make mistakes, trip up, fall over, say something silly. What matters is how we deal with those things.

 

Be your own best friend. Give it a go. What have you got to lose?

[dreamingoftigers]

That really does make me feel better. I mean, really.

 

If what's on offer is a bunch of stuck up bitches who think that the world shines out their ass, then maybe I'm better off alone? I was born this way, I've always been shy...it's not like I suddenly became shy overnight.

 

And I can't change. I'm on medication for anxiety, and while it has helped with the panic attacks, it hasn't cured me of my shyness. That is a personality trait that won't disappear, ever.

 

Shyness can be overcome, you only need to fight it for about 2 minutes at a shot.

 

Try a small change first like smiling at every woman you see. Every single one. Young, old, whatever. Smile and wait the two seconds while maintaining eye contact, it isn't rude and no not everyone is going to reciprocate, a lot of women may wonder why you are smiling at them because they will think that they aren't attractive. Seriously. Most will realize that you are being friendly, some will think its creepy (because they are weird).

 

Do it until you get comfortable and then let us know how you are doing with it.

 

I know Social Anxiety is tough and a lot of guys on here have it, BUT you can't change the world and you would need to do your best to increase your odds.

 

Popular media will have you believe a whole bunch of stereotypes to begin with which are true for the people that buy into them. Most of the women who talk about the "hot guy" fall into two groups: 1. bloody undateable anyways, they treat guys like toilet paper or end up with a "hot guy" for a little bit that treats them like toilet paper. 2. The one that goes on about it and then dates the plainest, most ass-ugly guy because she loves him and then tells everyone how "hot" he is. She either believes it or saves face with her own perceived values. Type 2 is more common and it is kind of laughably cute.

 

I have one friend who's love interests seem to have progressively larger penises! This cracks me up because I don't believe it one bit, it's just code for I like this guy "this" much, and "I like this guy way more then the last one." Statistically by now she must be dating stallions on dick-steroids, but it's funny. Just a weird snapshot of her values. Also I think she is full of it.

 

If you think that they are all stuck-up bitches waiting to reject you, then you being that dynamic into a conversation. It is true that probably the majority will reject you, even without the Social Anxiety. Women are varietal and we are not attracted to all of the same things, or want to date the same type of people no matter what guys on here may think. If no women dated any of your male ancestors or married them or found them attractive in any liveable or tolerable way, then you wouldn't be posting here, right?

 

The majority of women will probably turn you down, so what? They aren't who you are looking for then. You want the girl who thinks you are interesting and attractive to her. Not just that you pass some imaginary attractiveness line. Guys tend to get obsessed with this.

 

I'll tell you what, my husband has off and on had a weight problem, when I met him he had some extra weight. By year 3 he looked pregnant. I actually still found him physically attractive to me. No BS. Some women don't operate like that. Most women have physical attraction tie in with the emotional bond that they have with a guy. Your extra weight is most likely not a deal-breaker for a lot of women (especially in the US, my God!)

 

Male burn victims are far more likely to date and find love then female burn victims. There is a pretty big reason for that.

 

If you treat a girl like you are really awkward, shy or embarassed around her, despite the fact that you are asking her out it will make her feel awkward and embarassed too. Moods carry. If she feels awkward and embarassed, odds are you ain't gonna have dinner with her.

 

Try to find a way to make her feel comfortable even if you are not.

 

Generations of women have evolved to the point where how they feel in a guy's presence is going to dictate mateability with that individual. Security plays a major factor in that. If a guy is not emotionally secure enough to ask her for coffee, that's a flag. If you aren't comfortable with it, odds are she won't be either.