_For those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

[somedude81]

Yeah, I'm getting better at conversation, but that isn't the witty banter Duckduckgoose was talking about.

 

How do I start learning how to do that?

[Disillusioned]

There's a guy on enotalone who posted how he went to a social event for singles. Got there, saw the men and women, but wimpered in the corner bec. he was afraid to go up and talk with people.

 

I was talking about places were men and women interact, like social functions, a get-together after work at a restaurant or bar, a pool party at a friend's home -- one of his friends brings a single female you could talk with - that's how I met a woman I once dated for 2-3 mos. ....

 

I used to go to those in my early 20s, but the alcohol always turned me off. Educated people are no different, they get just as drunk and shallow as everyone else when that hooch starts to kick in. Maybe some people enjoy the whole beer goggles BS, but I'm not one of 'em.

 

If i'd have been afraid, I wouldn't have gone in the first place.

[dreamingoftigers]

Something that I have noticed about sexually addicted men is that they seem to be very comfortable conversationalists esp. around women

 

(But get them into an SA meeting and they clam right up.)

 

This would lead me to think that conversing is very central to women because they are hoping to generate those numbers and get a "hit."

 

If they weren't able to do that chances are they wouldn't have been able to reinforce the sexual addiction.

 

My husband for instance is an excellent conversationalist. It served him well in getting new sexual partners.

 

Knowing what to say to a girl that seems vulnerable gets a guy far. Of course adapting that principle in a healthy way would be crucial.

 

By the way, these are generally not attractive guys.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by Floridaman

There's a guy on enotalone who posted how he went to a social event for singles. Got there, saw the men and women, but wimpered in the corner bec. he was afraid to go up and talk with people.

 

I was talking about places were men and women interact, like social functions, a get-together after work at a restaurant or bar, a pool party at a friend's home -- one of his friends brings a single female you could talk with - that's how I met a woman I once dated for 2-3 mos. ....

I used to go to those in my early 20s, but the alcohol always turned me off. Educated people are no different, they get just as drunk and shallow as everyone else when that hooch starts to kick in. Maybe some people enjoy the whole beer goggles BS, but I'm not one of 'em.

 

If i'd have been afraid, I wouldn't have gone in the first place.

Go to the functions, but drink water or a fruit juice. No one's gonna think less of you for not drinking...

Most bartenders will serve you a nonalcoholic drink like pineapple juice. Just ask what he has... He'll understand (tell him alcohol makes you sleepy, like wine does to me...).

 

Not recommending getting all drunk... I don't drink, actually. Though I do like wine (at business receptions, etc.) I have never been intoxicated nor had a hangover. Guess I'm still a "virgin" in that area.... but at near-50, doesn't look like I'll ever gain the taste for beer or alcohol... (Nothing wrong with those that enjoy those diversions).

 

I mentioned after work get-togethers at restaurants or bars bec. that's where people go. I personally wouldn't recommend "the bar scene" bec. of the strong smoke, the alcohol and type of women that frequent those places.

Did (try to) date a woman who was into that scene, but realized it wasn't gonna work as I hate that scene...

Edited April 14, 2011 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

Something that I have noticed about sexually addicted men is that they seem to be very comfortable conversationalists esp. around women

 

(But get them into an SA meeting and they clam right up.)

 

This would lead me to think that conversing is very central to women because they are hoping to generate those numbers and get a "hit."

 

If they weren't able to do that chances are they wouldn't have been able to reinforce the sexual addiction.

 

My husband for instance is an excellent conversationalist. It served him well in getting new sexual partners.

 

Knowing what to say to a girl that seems vulnerable gets a guy far. Of course adapting that principle in a healthy way would be crucial.

 

By the way, these are generally not attractive guys.

Agreed, some (maybe many) guys try to take advantage of women.

I wasn't one of those.

 

Like SomeDude, I wasn't very good at conversation either through college. Remember in HS, my dad and I met a girl my age at the country club. I hardly had anything to say. Recall telling dad, "I'm not really good at conversation...."

 

He said, "No kidding..." Great motivation there. But it did motivate me to try to improve things.

 

It does get better, however, with practice. The key is you need to feel comfortable with yourself so you don't give off vibes that you're all worked up.

 

Important to not think of these women as monsters or people that would laugh at you or hurt you. Just talk with them like you would with friends.

 

And if nothing comes out of the conversation, say the woman ends the conversation early, don't take it personally. Not everyone is attracted to everyone. Just take it in stride and move on to the next one....

 

When dating my future wife ( a long-distance relationship), maybe a year or two into our dating, I found myself in a deep conversation with a woman at an industry convention.

Was thinking to myself during the conversation, "If I wasn't committed to the other woman I was seeing, I could prob. get this girl to go out with me..."

Judging solely by the conversation, she seemed very interested in me.

I ended the talk prematurely bec. I was afraid I could be distracted and had a good thing back home that I didn't want to lose.

 

That woman's parents a year or two later told me (unsolicited) she met some guy and were talking engagement, so I have to think she told her parents she was attracted to me...

 

Was good to have that attention...

Edited April 14, 2011 by Floridaman

[fortyninethousand322]

Something that I have noticed about sexually addicted men is that they seem to be very comfortable conversationalists esp. around women

 

(But get them into an SA meeting and they clam right up.)

 

This would lead me to think that conversing is very central to women because they are hoping to generate those numbers and get a "hit."

 

If they weren't able to do that chances are they wouldn't have been able to reinforce the sexual addiction.

 

My husband for instance is an excellent conversationalist. It served him well in getting new sexual partners.

 

Knowing what to say to a girl that seems vulnerable gets a guy far. Of course adapting that principle in a healthy way would be crucial.

 

By the way, these are generally not attractive guys.

 

What kind of conversing does the job though? I find that I'm great at conversing when the subject is sports, current events, foreign policy, classic rock, the debt to GDP ratio of random countries, etc. I have found that many girls my age find those things to be boring even college educated girls.

[Floridaman]

What kind of conversing does the job though? I find that I'm great at conversing when the subject is sports, current events, foreign policy, classic rock, the debt to GDP ratio of random countries, etc. I have found that many girls my age find those things to be boring even college educated girls.

 

What age are the women you talk to?

How old are you?

 

Those sound like decent topics.

 

Am not into "celebrity news" or the like, but you could throw that into the mix, just to get conversation going.

[fortyninethousand322]

What age are the women you talk to?

How old are you?

 

Those sound like decent topics.

 

Am not into "celebrity news" or the like, but you could throw that into the mix, just to get conversation going.

 

I'm 23. The girls I talk to range from 20-26 or so. Yeah I guess I could try to know at least one thing going on with a celebrity, even though I too don't like celebrity news.

[Floridaman]

I'm 23. The girls I talk to range from 20-26 or so. Yeah I guess I could try to know at least one thing going on with a celebrity, even though I too don't like celebrity news.

All it takes is someone "really big" like the pathetic Charlie Sheen or Mel Gibson or Tiger Woods.

 

Girls that age, though, seem "less mature," more superficial and into that kind of stuff...

 

I also could care less about celebrity news and quickly change the ch. when celebrity gossip stories like Entertainment Tonight come on.. But news of those aforementioned often makes the mainstream radio and TV news, so I know enough about them to discuss it.

 

On music, classic rock is great, but girls that age may not know much about The Beatles, Tom Petty, Kansas, Chicago, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Huey Lewis & News, Hall & Oates, Boston, Queen, U-2, etc., and are likely more into contemporary music, which I (at 49) could care less about.

 

Try to learn about a couple of the "better" current rock groups. I know a few of them as I hear them in doctors' offices and at restaurants and there are some I could listen to if I was interested...

 

On the celebs. and music, get "just enough" so you know what you're talking about and can relate on those topics...

 

On age, as you're in your mid-20s, I'd focus more on women your age or a little older. You may find them to be more mature and interested in relationships...

Those young ones still in college likely have more opportunities and have guys all over them. At least to me when I was 25, it seemed like it was hard to get an "opening" in that area....

Edited April 14, 2011 by Floridaman

[fortyninethousand322]

All it takes is someone "really big" like the pathetic Charlie Sheen or Mel Gibson or Tiger Woods.

 

Girls that age, though, seem "less mature," more superficial and into that kind of stuff...

 

I also could care less about celebrity news and quickly change the ch. when celebrity gossip stories like Entertainment Tonight come on.. But news of those aforementioned often makes the mainstream radio and TV news, so I know enough about them to discuss it.

 

On music, classic rock is great, but girls that age may not know much about The Beatles, Tom Petty, Kansas, Chicago, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Huey Lewis & News, Hall & Oates, Boston, Queen, U-2, etc., and are likely more into contemporary music, which I (at 49) could care less about.

 

Try to learn about a couple of the "better" current rock groups. I know a few of them as I hear them in doctors' offices and at restaurants and there are some I could listen to if I was interested...

 

On the celebs. and music, get "just enough" so you know what you're talking about and can relate on those topics...

 

On age, as you're in your mid-20s, I'd focus more on women your age or a little older. You may find them to be more mature and interested in relationships...

Those young ones still in college likely have more opportunities and have guys all over them. At least to me when I was 25, it seemed like it was hard to get an "opening" in that area....

 

Well I'm in my last semester in college, so I still do interact with a few college age girls that's why I included them in the age range that I would be interested in. But yeah you're right on the larger point.

 

I sometimes feel intimidated by older women though. Not always but often enough. A lot of the ones that I meet have jobs/careers and their own place. I have a part time job that typical college kids have and I don't even have my own room (I share with my brother) let alone my own place. Is that just a minor inconvenience, or is it something that would be a turnoff to older women?

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by somedude81

But I think the real trick is flirting with my words, and that's something that I have a really hard time with

Flirting with your words... hmm... banter, or wit I think it's called. If a guy can master banter and wit without being a douchbag he's got me hooked bad. I might not want to date him (if he has dealbreaker issues), but its gonna give me fits to not do it.

That's a good "inside" perspective, DuckDuck.

That should help a lot of guys... just master the chit-chat...

Well I'm in my last semester in college, so I still do interact with a few college age girls that's why I included them in the age range that I would be interested in. But yeah you're right on the larger point.

That makes sense, work your audience.

I sometimes feel intimidated by older women though. Not always but often enough.

A lot of the ones that I meet have jobs/careers and their own place. I have a part time job that typical college kids have and I don't even have my own room (I share with my brother) let alone my own place.

Is that just a minor inconvenience, or is it something that would be a turnoff to older women?

As you're still in college and just starting your career, I can see how that could be a concern.

 

At 25, when I was out of college, that 's when I started looking more toward the "older" gals.

 

For some reason, I couldn't hit it off with the women my age or a few years younger, the ones still in college.

Somehow, I felt I might have a better chance with the ones a little older than me, maybe 1-5 years older.

 

But maybe it would be better for you to look towards them once you're getting established in your career, have a place of your own, etc.

[Floridaman]

For some reason, I couldn't hit it off with the women my age or a few years younger, the ones still in college.

Somehow, I felt I might have a better chance with the ones a little older than me, maybe 1-5 years older.

 

But maybe it would be better for you to look towards them once you're getting established in your career, have a place of your own, etc.

As my pic shows, I wasn't unattractive, but considered myself an average-looking guy.

 

Never was very smart about women and knew nothing of being "non-chalant," etc. I wasn't attracting women my age or a little younger. Was tired of getting frustrated bec. they weren't on the same page as me.

 

All I know is I desperately wanted a relationship (to end the loneliness), and something inside me told me to try for the woman a little older than me.

[hellrazaa]

I have to say that i've really meet some good single people here at http://www.shazoob.com this is def a diamond in the rough...and its cheap

[Floridaman]

*** bumping to keep thread alive ***

[Floridaman]

more *** bumping to keep thread alive ***

[zengirl]

I like that this thread is actual problem-solving. Nice. Wanted to chime in real quick on somedude's woes here. . .

 

How do I show sexual interest so that girls don't think I just want to be friends?

 

I kind of can understand where this is a difficult thing if you don't already have it down because there's a danger of being too subtle (she doesn't even know you're interested) and a danger of coming on too strong (she thinks you're some jerk who's just trying to sleep with you) and I've had guys miss out on going out with me, who I'd otherwise go out with (though I have no evidence any of the "too strong" guys weren't jerks so maybe they all were, as I'll cut off all contact at "too strong"), because of these things.

 

But honestly, though I know it sounds corny, the best way to show interest is to show it directly but mix it into other things. For instance, I met my current BF online, but his profile said he was only looking for Friends. (I messaged him because he seemed awesome and really unique and I'd totally be his friend if that's all he was into, though I thought he was cute too.) I wouldn't have assumed he was into me just because he wrote back, since his profile didn't list any kind of dating, but he conveyed it well by saying I was "(cute too)" -- after a list of other things he'd liked about me -- in parenthesis, buried in a message that wasn't really about attraction at all. I think that's a good metaphor for how you have to note sexual attraction in a girl.

 

Mentioning it outright will often be kind of creepy, but not if you do it in a parenthetical way. Honestly, telling a girl WHY you like her is a powerful thing. "Hey, you seem really cool, it's awesome that you're into scuba diving -- I wanted to look into getting certified myself -- and you're also really cute. We should go out sometime!" She's either going to get the hint or she's a complete idiot and why are you interested?!?!? ETA: By a parenthetical way, I mean don't make asking her out ALL about her being cute, as many women (myself included) will take umbrage to that and be offended. Find something else, anything else, as a reason you're into her as well but feel free to mention she's cute. If that sounds overly complicated, it's because in this particular instance, women are crazy. I admit it.

 

The issue is that leaves you wide open for rejection. I understand that. But the truth is that being clear in your interest always does. It must be hard after so many rejections (I've certainly been rejected, but a mix of rejection and success is of course different; you learn that the rejections are just jolts on the way to success), but I find most constantly rejected people really do reject themselves in their own minds before they ever give the other person the chance to do so. I was like that with friends (dates were always easier than friends for me when I was young) for a long time before I grew out of it.

 

And what Floridaman says sounds true to me, particularly

 

As for "she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet." I absolutely hate that concept. During the first few minutes I meet a girl I don't have a clue what I want from her. I'm also most likely focused on making myself not scared of her so I can talk.

 

Women absolutely do this. But it doesn't mean it's a irreversible thing. I've known tons of guys I've changed that initial opinion about, for better or worse. And I'm probably one of the less changeable women. So don't get all psyched out about it.

 

And there's totally nothing to be scared of. I'm sure plenty of women are scared of you. If I actually think a guy is cute or BF material, I totally get a little shy and scared too for all my bravado. And if I think a guy likes me and I'd never go out with him, I'm terrified! Human interactions are scary from all sides.

[fortyninethousand322]

I like that this thread is actual problem-solving. Nice. Wanted to chime in real quick on somedude's woes here. . .

 

I don't know. I guess it's the thought that counts on this thread. If you notice, none of the guys who needed help solving their problems have actually solved them in the 4 months since this thread appeared. I think luck or arranged marriages might be the only things that would work at this point.

 

All I got out of this thread is that I should date younger girls who would be more accepting of my inexperience, but that I should also date older women who are more mature and looking for relationships. At this point I think I'd date whoever would have me.

[zengirl]

I don't know. I guess it's the thought that counts on this thread. If you notice, none of the guys who needed help solving their problems have actually solved them in the 4 months since this thread appeared. I think luck or arranged marriages might be the only things that would work at this point.

 

All I got out of this thread is that I should date younger girls who would be more accepting of my inexperience, but that I should also date older women who are more mature and looking for relationships. At this point I think I'd date whoever would have me.

 

Well, it seems like they have deeper problems that aren't going to be solved in a few months. I meant more "the spirit of problem solving" though than its effects. I understand it's hard, but everything in life is easier if you can at least try to approach it productively rather than retreat into bitterness.

 

People with a long track record of rejection and failure in any area likely need more than a message board can provide.

[Floridaman]

I don't know. I guess it's the thought that counts on this thread.

 

If you notice, none of the guys who needed help solving their problems have actually solved them in the 4 months since this thread appeared.

Dating is a pain and something that's not easy for most.

Me wasn't one of those who "got all the breaks" like a college scholarship, lots of interest from women in college (though I did date, just not well), finding my fiance in college, a successful career right out of college, wealth, etc.

 

As for those still in ruts, 4 mos. isn't a lot of time.

Some of them haven't responded here and updated their situations. Maybe some of them are in dating relationships or are busy asking women out.

 

Like ZenGirl said, a lot of that could be on them, esp. if they're shy and scared to ask women out or won't put themselves out in places where they'll meet more people and in turn, meet potential dating partners. This applies to men AND women.

 

At 30, I was lonely and desperate ( my last LTR over 6 mos. was 28 ) but thankfully was wise enough not to wear my bitterness/ disappointment on my sleeve so that everyone who came across me didn't view me as some guy with a chip on his shoulder who felt "overlooked" and abused by women -- the kind of person no one wanted to be around.

All I got out of this thread is that I should date younger girls who would be more accepting of my inexperience, but that I should also date older women who are more mature and looking for relationships.

Younger girls seem more immature and generally seem to have guys asking them out all the time.

I'd aim for women your age and older.

 

On dating older women, if you're wanting a relationship (not just another skirt to nail), does it not make sense to "invest" the marketing of your product (yourself) to the appropriate customers (older women looking for relationships)?

 

At this point I think I'd date whoever would have me.

Date whomever you like.

The advice here is worth what it costs....

 

I think luck or arranged marriages might be the only things that would work at this point.

Luck did play a part in ending my dating at 30, when a couple of months after I hit that disastrous age I met my future wife through a blind date set up by one of her friends. She was 33 and as it worked out, was looking for a relationship too. BINGO.

 

Arranged marriages did serve a purpose.

My posts are to encourage single people to get out and make more friends because in expanding your social circle, you may meet potential dating partners..... a female friend of a male friend, a cousin of a male friend, etc.

[Floridaman]

more *** bumping to keep thread alive ***

Threads lock-up after 30-60 days, so want to keep this current so others can post.

 

Have read that the OP can re-open threads the poster started, but not sure if that will open the thread to others...

Edited July 21, 2011 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

Adding this as I can't edit the prev. posting:

At this point I think I'd date whoever would have me.

Trust me, I know where you're coming from and felt the same way.

 

Would have been delighted to have someone interested in dating me for more than 1-2 dates.

 

That's one reason I was so glad I found someone who not only wanted to date me in a LTR, but later, marry me as well..... had long wanted a fiance.

[fortyninethousand322]

Younger girls seem more immature and generally seem to have guys asking them out all the time.

I'd aim for women your age and older.

 

On dating older women, if you're wanting a relationship (not just another skirt to nail), does it not make sense to "invest" the marketing of your product (yourself) to the appropriate customers (older women looking for relationships)?

 

Sure. I was merely pointing out that older women might not like that I'm inexperienced. Sure some women (on here and elsewhere) say wouldn't mind an inexperienced guy, but an even greater number say it would be a deal breaker. Older women are looking for relationships, but with guys who have actually had one before. I mean I've never even kissed a girl before.

 

Date whomever you like.

The advice here is worth what it costs....

 

 

I'm not trying to knock your thread, and I do appreciate the help you have tried to give. I've just been real frustrated lately. I'd like to be able to give up on women and dating (since it's obvious it's not going to happen), but I find them attractive and (sometimes) fun to be around. So I guess just take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

 

My posts are to encourage single people to get out and make more friends because in expanding your social circle, you may meet potential dating partners..... a female friend of a male friend, a cousin of a male friend, etc.

 

That's good advice.

[Floridaman]

I'm not trying to knock your thread, and I do appreciate the help you have tried to give.

I know. Am not thin-skinned. I didn't take it personally.

Admit I'm no dating expert...

 

At least the kind of advice I and others here are offering isn't

"Oh... you'll meet someone..."

or

"Just give it time...."

 

Am trying to provide practical and workable advice that will help those guys/ gals who've never dated or not been too successfull in dating -- like I was (the latter).

 

Want them to do proactive things other than just falsely believe they will forever remain in their situation or will one day wake up and "find love..."

 

I've just been real frustrated lately. I'd like to be able to give up on women and dating (since it's obvious it's not going to happen), but I find them attractive and (sometimes) fun to be around. So I guess just take my comments with a grain of salt.

Totally understand.

The younger women still in college I dated at 25, they seemed very ambivalent. Couldn't seem to spark any interest.

When I picked one up one Fri. night at her home before going to a movie, she had to remain to watch the last few minutes of a TV show !!!! ("Dallas").

 

 

Wasn't a virgin (though I sometimes wished I was:() and had kissed women -- had sex at 17 3-4X with same girl (wayyyyyyyyyy too early-- my biggest life regret) but lived like a semi-virgin through most of my 20s (only 2 sep. sexual encounters from 19-30 @25-26).

 

Funny. Had more "luck" dating in HS when I wasn't so intent on pursuing a relationship (liked the feeling/ "status" of having a GF) than in college and beyond when I really wanted a relationship, a fiance, marriage, etc.

So I know where you type of guys/gals are coming from.

 

 

49, one thing you've got going over some others in their mid-late 20s who've never dated nor kissed a girl... you're still in college.

College is a great dating pool.

 

Make the most of it while you can as you likely won't find such a great pool of potential dates once you get in the corporate world, where many women are either married or hard to find... (if you work in a male-dominated career) so you'll need to network more with friends and through business and personal activities and single groups, etc.

 

You don't want to work, go home, eat, remain in your apt. during evenings, etc., like many of us did..... Kind of isolating that way compared to college when there are so many activities you could be doing to meet people...

Edited July 21, 2011 by Floridaman

[fortyninethousand322]

I just graduated college in May, so I'm not longer in school. Although I might go back for grad school. Right now I'm looking to get into the intelligence/foreign relations/analysis field. I have a few applications floating around but as many know, the federal hiring process can take forever.

 

I hope I don't become socially isolated. I have a good amount of friends now so hopefully that won't change.

[Floridaman]

I just graduated college in May, so I'm not longer in school. Although I might go back for grad school. Right now I'm looking to get into the intelligence/foreign relations/analysis field. I have a few applications floating around but as many know, the federal hiring process can take forever.

 

I hope I don't become socially isolated. I have a good amount of friends now so hopefully that won't change.

Read you were still in college... but that was months ago.

 

Grad school is a great idea... That's where I got into that LTR at 27-28....

 

Just "cold-called" on a woman I spotted sitting in the chairs between summer night classes.

"Here's my chance," I thought. "Gotta take it..." as I approached the high diving board...

 

Got to talking with her.

What field is she studying?

Why?

How difficult are the classes? etc.

 

Wasn't in sales so being forward can be a little intimidating.

Just simple conversation like that.

 

Or... if she was reading a book, ask her about the book. What's it about? Enjoy it? Like reading? What do you like most to read? etc.

 

Next thing you know, lined up a dinner date with her the next weekend and snagged a relationship that lasted 1.5 years before she ended it all.... but that's another story and am glad it didn't work out as my REAL love was just around the corner....

 

Hadn't really done "cold calls" before (or had just started asking out women I just met) but getting lonely and realizing I couldn't just "expect" love to find me without some work, became a little more daring or forward... and decided I needed to do some things to find a relationship....

 

You can read online those "pick up" lines or strategies from pick-up artists, but I wasn't ever a "player" and don't necessarily think much of that advice is so great... though you can likely gain some good tips....

 

 

Methinks it all involves good conversation and not just immediately launching into "Do you wanna go out with me?"

Engage in some good conversation to get her "comfortable" with you first then suggest some activity.

 

Say she tells you she likes art. Tell her you read a certain art genre is on display at this museum, or if she likes a certain type of music or academic field, you know about this concert or lecture that is scheduled... and would like to invite her to enjoy it with you after dinner or something...

 

Try to build some rapport and see if there's interest through the small talk that maybe can develop into something deeper.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Floridaman