Guys - third date sex makes a girl slutty? Timeline?

[Eeyore79]

If only more people knew how satisfying connecting with someone is, without adding responsibilities to it, life would be perfect for more people.

I feel that you are pushing your own lifestyle onto others for whom it might not be suitable. Your lifestyle works for you, just as my lifestyle works for me, and everyone should be free to do what works for them. I don't require that everyone sees relationships in the same way as I do, I just ask that people are honest about what they want, so that I can identify people who are similar to myself and avoid being deceived by those who are not similar.

[betterdeal]

Co-dependency is often problematic, it has to be said. Works for some tho. There's a couple who I see in the supermarket most weeks. Clearly have learning difficulties and are pretty simple folk, and they adore each other. They have their world and they're happy in it.

[Mr.Cairo]

Love is not "fleeting." Just certain types of it. Devotion is a type of love, and it is anything but fleeting. Some people find the fleeting versions more 'exciting', but I find those to be rather shallow.

 

 

I understand what you mean. There are various types of love. For example, the love that I feel for myself is certain in that, I have a duty to myself to be happy and if that means rejecting what Society expects of me, why not? Why should I abide to archaic roles of having to be in a relationship because that's what many women were taught by birth to go after?

 

How many women do we know having their girlfriends tell them to hold off, don't have sex with a man until the 5th date or whatever timeline? How many men do we know who are told to not spend money on a woman until she puts out?

 

Centuries ago this was viable because women were slaves to man's desires and ambitions. Women were property(and sadly they still are in several Countries), but with the evolution of men, women have finally come to terms that they don't have to be repressed anymore. That lifelong relationships consume too much of her. She can be happy just with herself.

 

why not? Why defy nature when nature itself wired us to seek out new mates every few years? Why deny what makes us human? Why put forth risks and problems when all of that can be avoided?

 

What can a woman offer me in a long term relationship that an intense encounter can't? Stability? I'm stable. Friendship? My friends are abundant and always there. A mother for my children? I'm not interested in having children and if I was, I'd use the services of a surrogate mother. We all know that there are amicable divorces, but a child is part of a person. I wouldn't want to see my child a few times a month.

 

Yes, I know that I can test a woman(her moral values etc) such as a woman can test a man and have him pass the test. The thing is, human beings are volatile. They're always changing. The man a woman marries is not going to be the same guy 10 years from now. Maybe he was loving, made her feel sexy. Now he's addicted to cartoon porn. The divorce forum is filled with stories such as these.

 

Life is so incredible short. That is established. That is the only true law. We will die, and there are already too many risks(health problems, getting ran over by a car etc) to add more situations that can possibly turn bad for a man or a woman.

 

There is nothing more sweet than waking up and knowing that if you die, no one is going to suffer dire consequences. There is such freedom in knowing that when you get back home you are not going to find your SO cuddling with someone else.

 

There is joy in knowing that your girlfriend or boyfriend is not stalking her/his ex because, you have no emotional investment on someone else. Such as you learn to cook because no one is going to cook for you, to have expectations, hopes, and dreams with someone else ends many times in tragedy.

 

You are right about relationships working out. But there are human beings out there whose desire for established consistency, stability and permanence could never allow them to risk something when so aware of how the state is involved in everything dealing with relationship, and aware of human nature.

 

I remember sitting on my grandpa's lap as a kid and seeing how much he had to work to sustain his family. I admired that. But I admire myself even more for rejecting, what the patriarchy wants me to be: a slave.

 

What easier way there is than to have someone in my life whose mind was brainwashed by society to believe that she can't be a real human without having a relationship/being married/having children?

 

That would be an affront to every woman and every man who died so that I could be free. And it would be disrespectful for the woman I was in a relationship with me, knowing that had not society wired her to seek a long term relationship, she would be free to indulge herself on the joys of temporary connection.

 

 

'

'I'm sure that everything worth having also has had it's problems at various times. That doesn't make it not worth having.''

 

 

Not really. Example. College education is worth it. But is it worth it to be in massive debt for several years? No, it's not. So what can a person do? That person can go to an European Country and get a much cheaper education, allowing himself to not be strapped to the economical collapse we're going through.

 

There are several ways of getting what is worth having without having to deal with problems. Another example would be how human beings can have sex without having to deal with unwanted pregnancies. A woman can still be pregnant but there are abortions for that. We can easily take away every problem inherent in what we want and enjoy the reward without having to pay for it.

 

I have no issues with anyone else living any way they like, but to me, that sounds vastly immature and superficial. To me, of course. Everyone walks their own pat''

 

True enough. I can understand your point of view. I also could never be one of those married/in a relationship guys with a 9 to 5pm job, worrying about what everyone was going to have for dinner, picking up a kid from the game, and talking to the wife about the big raise I was waiting for so the family could go hiking or something.

 

Nah, after having my face touched by the waters of Greece, falling asleep under a tree in Spain, meeting exciting people, and having this streak of amazing and perfect freedom(my love for freedom is clear, heh?), I could never go back to the slavery that modern women and men experience - that could be easily avoided.

 

 

I see so many guys being in relationships that they don't want to be in but because they are getting steady sex, they don't see why they should move away from it. I see so many women who aren't into a particular guy but because he treats them well, they are in a relationship with them. Why? Why be in something that is more temporary than a whisper and

 

that can cause so many problems? Afraid of being lonely?Human beings are never lonely. People come together and they grow apart all the time. If people were raised by their parents to take every little smile ,every little kiss as nothing more than a bridge to memories, instead of having to hold on to that man who was so attentive when the relationship began, disrupting the person left behind to suffer emotionally.

 

We're taught that if we have sex, it has to be in an established relationship. That we can't see other people if we're already with someone else. That we have to have children because it's the right thing to do. Or because of our biological clock. Or because if we don't do it 'Mankind dies'.

 

I'm a man of the 21th Century. My ancestors died so that I could make a choice and I did it. I chose to be true to myself. And it saddens me to see women being used by men who aren't into them but are staying with them due to the jail that marriage is(to man and women), or how a condom breaking or the pill failing can lead to 18 years of dealing with an unwanted child.

 

Nah, I wasn't made for that and many human beings are the same way.

 

You speak of different ways of love, but have you thought that loving one self beyond loving any other person is the most natural type of love? That you are going to have to live with yourself regardless of what happens, and that you should have yourself in your thoughts always, the first place? That the devotion you speak of can be directed onto you, assuring you that happiness is always present?

 

I love myself more than I could ever love someone else. I love myself more than any human being can love myself. Through my self- love I become a complete human being, never having to depend on anyone or suffering because of anyone due to my complete independence from the traps of temporary love, the expectations of society and the brainwashing that many women have suffered.

 

 

''Different women want different things. Sexual freedom should not really include the freedom to 'trick' people or lie to them to have sexual encounters they wouldn't really want if they knew the whole truth. I've already said I've no issues with OTHER people having casual sex, if that's what both parties want. I see no value in it, personally.'

 

 

Another chain we have to rid ourselves with is the victim card. How many men and women had casual sex wanting something more, knowing that there would be no relationship afterwards, but went ahead and did it?

 

Many. There are many fools who cross the street without looking both ways and get hit. Does that mean that everyone is a fool?

 

 

I make myself pretty clear with women, even with the girlfriends of my friends. I am not interested in being an item. I'm not interested in children. I'm not interested in living with a woman. They know how I am. Their female friends know how I am. I'm very honest. Always has been. If people are always honest about what they want from each other and what they are willing to give, no one gets used.

 

If people develop feelings after having sex or whatever, well then. That person is not emotionally independent. It's still incomplete. Better to simply avoid human beings like myself. I am not responsible for how people react, I'm only responsible for how I treat them and how I make them feel - always well.

 

'

'Why are you so ardent that everyone be like you? I would imagine it's because, as you get older, few women are. Actually, few men I know think like this, too. I know many men

 

who want devotion (though of course, everyone still wants some passion too---as do I; to me, one does not kill the other, but they enhance each other; I think it very sad those

 

who like beginnings best who find devotion kills their passion).''

 

 

Because people are too comfortable. Is it safe to have a relationship? In many ways it is because it takes courage to be true to oneself, and by going having the relationship thing going, many women and men aren't being truthful to what they really want.

 

How many people would like to quit their jobs but can't? How many people would like to travel but can't? Society tells them that they have to make this cash, have this house, and so on. In several European Countries people mostly rent houses. That makes sense. Why make yourself responsible for bricks and cement? Why spend your life paying that off? Why not make it possible for you to pick up your bag and move away? Because people are told that they have to follow certain paths.

 

If people are given the choice of having intimate connections without having to pay for it in any shape or form, if men and women are given the liberty(by removing societal restraints etc) to fulfill their desires, people can then decide what they want.

 

How do I know if I like to ride bikes or cars if Society tells me that cars are safer(which they are, but nothing beats the passion burning in our blood as we drive an Harley)?

 

Few women are? Not really. I've met African women, I've met European women, Mexicans, North Americans, I've met women from South America. I've met people from all the continents. There are people with different personalities from every Country on this planet and if you aren't stuck, jailed, paying for houses, having to work jobs you don't like, you are free to roam the world and meet people like yourself.

 

I find it very sad that some people don't understand that just because you are aging, you don't have to change or make people stay the same. As I've said before I've met women older than me interested in the same things that I am. True enough that more women in their early 20's are like me than women in their 30's are, but when you have the time to keep your youth up and be able to be one step above the younger men, you can pretty much enjoy your life with the younger women(and with the older women with the same personality).

 

 

''I just think it's shallow, unsatisfying, and boring. Not soul-consuming.''

 

It's fine. I also believe that waking up to the same person everyday is very negative to my well-being. I think that it is shallow to want only one person, that I'm keeping that person(and myself) from a multitude of positive experiences at the hands of another human being.

''If you're honest about it, that's fine. But many women would not bother with you then, and that's for the best for them. As I said, there are different types. This whole "transformed into a memory" sounds like crap to me. You can romanticize casual sex all you like. I still find it the McDonalds of sex. It's cheap and easy and crap.''

 

To me it's not important that many women wouldn't be fine with my lifestyle. I'm not interested in all women. I'm only interested in the right woman for me at that particular moment. If many women don't like it, many do. Even if all women didn't like how I am, I'd rater be celibate than having to betray everything that makes me be what I am.

 

Well, it does seem that you don't like people to have my lifestyle. What I find strange is all the aggression in your words. I don't pick up a person from the street and tell them how shallow etc they are for feeding a society that is more interested in it's own profits than in making people happy.

 

I tell my friends and I tell women about it, but I don't make hard bones. If I find myself deeply attracted to a woman who doesn't share my ideals, I simply move on. No matter how much I find myself attracted to someone - maybe even having feelings for that woman - I know that there are billions of women out there. No one is that special, really.

 

Neither am I. I know that I can spend 20 years with a woman and be replaced. Such as a woman can be easily replaced, so why put stock on something that cannot be changed?

 

Life is ever changing. Go with the flow. Have fun, don't hold out for anyone. What this woman doesn't like in me, the other woman will love in me. What a woman find shallow in me, another will find fulfilling.

 

Isn't it wonderful how an emotional independent person(financially etc) can find joy in everyone and in everything, just by being true to everyone?

 

I think that you are confusing me for a PUA. No. PUA are disgusting creeps, tricking women into having sex with them. I'm a just a guy who loves himself and loves women strongly enough to always reveal what I can give, what I can't give, what I'm willing to be.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Mr.Cairo

[Mr.Cairo]

I feel that you are pushing your own lifestyle onto others for whom it might not be suitable. Your lifestyle works for you, just as my lifestyle works for me, and everyone should be free to do what works for them. I don't require that everyone sees relationships in the same way as I do, I just ask that people are honest about what they want, so that I can identify people who are similar to myself and avoid being deceived by those who are not similar.

 

No. I'm simply presenting a very strong reality. That society expects us to have relationships, to marry and to have children. Society wants women to be like this and men to be like that. Society doesn't really believe that women are as good or any better than men because it makes many women want relationships and babies when the truth is that there are many women who are in relationships and with babies because the patriarchy made them believe that it is their duty to fulfill the roles of women of long ago.

 

I don't want to force people to see the world as I see it. I basically tell my friends how they can have what they want without having to pay for it in any way or shape and some accept it, others due to their societal programming or by their own nature follow up with the 'traditional milestones of being an adult '.

 

Everyone should be free to pick what they want, but with their options known to them.

[EasyHeart]

That's just stupid.

 

It's not "the patriarchy" or "societal programming" that makes women (or men) want children; it's a normal biological urge. It's modern society that allows people to function without a family structure to support them, if they so choose.

[Mr.Cairo]

That's just stupid.

 

It's not "the patriarchy" or "societal programming" that makes women (or men) want children; it's a normal biological urge. It's modern society that allows people to function without a family structure to support them, if they so choose.

 

The evil that men do. Do you think that the thousands of years ago, the young girls marrying the guy in his 40's was doing it because she wanted? Why were these guys going for children? Because to them it was natural. As it was for the patriarchy to control women's sexuality from the time she was born to the time she had to die.

 

How many women(our grandmothers married in their 20's) and soon after had children. How was it natural for her to have children so soon? Because the Patriarchy, that dark regime which must fall down so women and men can be free, decided it was the normal thing to do.

 

If you talk to a conservative man he'll tell you that women should marry as soon as possible because they are more fertile when younger, that it is the normal thing to do.

 

Every year 600.000 American males decide to have a vasectomy. Billions of women are on the pill, and billions of males use the condom.

 

And that's another sick trick of the patriarchy. It counts on the biological impulse to have children. If the world's society really cared about women, it would find a way of satisfying a woman's biological impulse to have children thus allowing her to be free and have her life as she wants it to be.

 

Again, there are plenty of women in loveless marriages/relationships or stuck with kids they thought were going to make her happy, because having them fulfilled her biological 'role'.

 

Or you are saying that the women without children are suffering and can't be happy with being childless?

[zengirl]

Oh, Mr. Cairo with your long posts trying to convert others. I just don't get your non-acceptance of the other POV, so this will be the last I say.

 

First, I agree with these posters:

 

I feel that you are pushing your own lifestyle onto others for whom it might not be suitable. Your lifestyle works for you, just as my lifestyle works for me, and everyone should be free to do what works for them. I don't require that everyone sees relationships in the same way as I do, I just ask that people are honest about what they want, so that I can identify people who are similar to myself and avoid being deceived by those who are not similar.

 

That's just stupid.

 

It's not "the patriarchy" or "societal programming" that makes women (or men) want children; it's a normal biological urge. It's modern society that allows people to function without a family structure to support them, if they so choose.

 

I agree with them totally, especially Eyeore's point that you're trying to convert people.

 

I understand what you mean. There are various types of love. For example, the love that I feel for myself is certain in that, I have a duty to myself to be happy and if that means rejecting what Society expects of me, why not? Why should I abide to archaic roles of having to be in a relationship because that's what many women were taught by birth to go after?

 

Of course, you shouldn't have to be in a relationship if you don't want to. Just don't lie about things to get what you want---go forward in honesty, and I'm cool with that. Society doesn't give two flips if you get married. Maybe your Mom does. Or some girl who likes you. Or whatever. But society has long since stopped being one-size-fits-all in terms of relationships. You can do as you please these days. Why the fuss? However: That doesn't mean everyone else will abandon the idea of relationships and marriage and longevity and devotion just because you do.

 

Another chain we have to rid ourselves with is the victim card. How many men and women had casual sex wanting something more, knowing that there would be no relationship afterwards, but went ahead and did it?

 

Well, if they sincerely knew beforehand and were not lied to in anyway but just lied to themselves, I agree. They should stop being victims. If they were lied to, they were a victim, and that sucks. They should do the best they can to avoid that in future without paralyzing themselves with fear. Victimhood is never something I'll promote.

[Mr.Cairo]

Oh, Mr. Cairo with your long posts trying to convert others. I just don't get your non-acceptance of the other POV, so this will be the last I say.

 

First, I agree with these posters:

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with them totally, especially Eyeore's point that you're trying to convert people.

 

 

 

Of course, you shouldn't have to be in a relationship if you don't want to. Just don't lie about things to get what you want---go forward in honesty, and I'm cool with that. Society doesn't give two flips if you get married. Maybe your Mom does. Or some girl who likes you. Or whatever. But society has long since stopped being one-size-fits-all in terms of relationships. You can do as you please these days. Why the fuss? However: That doesn't mean everyone else will abandon the idea of relationships and marriage and longevity and devotion just because you do.

 

 

 

Well, if they sincerely knew beforehand and were not lied to in anyway but just lied to themselves, I agree. They should stop being victims. If they were lied to, they were a victim, and that sucks. They should do the best they can to avoid that in future without paralyzing themselves with fear. Victimhood is never something I'll promote.

 

Lets imagine that you have a friend wanting to visit France and Germany. He only has enough money to visit one Country. You detail to him what you've seen in those Countries, the people you meet, and from there, your friend will base his future decision on his likes and dislikes.

 

That's what I'm doing. I'm presenting a different reality from the traditional. Why do I do it? Because to many people, they've been taught that there's only one way of living life. And that's very sad.

 

The Pope never knew a woman and he's still human. There's nothing wrong with telling people that they can be like this, instead of of having to be like their fathers and their mothers.

 

Given the chance many people will refuse what I'm saying while many others will open their eyes to their own nature and eagerly go after it.

 

That and the fact that the patriarchy really doesn't have women in high-esteem, such as assuming that the women in their 30's have no options and that the women in their 20's, independently of how good looking they are or how accomplished they are, have low self-esteem.

 

Sure, my mother would like for me to have children. But take into consideration that her too was oppressed by the Patriarchy into, instead of going and enjoying life - as I believe every human being should do - instead of marrying young and having me.

 

The patriarchy makes women feel bad about themselves, it doesn't allow them to fully express their deepest desires and that is so sad in so many levels.

 

But to each it's own, I guess.

[sally4sara]

The simple fact that we are living creatures is what drives both men and women to want children. It may not even be a conscious thought as clear as "I want a baby", but it is at least half of the drive behind "I want to have sex". The other more conscious thought is "I want pleasure".

 

There are good things that can come from having children that have little to do with physical pleasure and the drive to multiply the species. A tribe of your own. Unity and a support network in your older years. Friends (if you're really lucky) and basic companionship. For some of us, the first time we will experience true love from someone of the opposite gender is with our kids. Romantic love can have so many strings attached.

[zengirl]

Lets imagine that you have a friend wanting to visit France and Germany. He only has enough money to visit one Country. You detail to him what you've seen in those Countries, the people you meet, and from there, your friend will base his future decision on his likes and dislikes.

 

That's what I'm doing. I'm presenting a different reality from the traditional. Why do I do it? Because to many people, they've been taught that there's only one way of living life. And that's very sad.

 

The Pope never knew a woman and he's still human. There's nothing wrong with telling people that they can be like this, instead of of having to be like their fathers and their mothers.

 

Given the chance many people will refuse what I'm saying while many others will open their eyes to their own nature and eagerly go after it.

 

That and the fact that the patriarchy really doesn't have women in high-esteem, such as assuming that the women in their 30's have no options and that the women in their 20's, independently of how good looking they are or how accomplished they are, have low self-esteem.

 

Sure, my mother would like for me to have children. But take into consideration that her too was oppressed by the Patriarchy into, instead of going and enjoying life - as I believe every human being should do - instead of marrying young and having me.

 

The patriarchy makes women feel bad about themselves, it doesn't allow them to fully express their deepest desires and that is so sad in so many levels.

 

But to each it's own, I guess.

 

You're not just giving an opinion --- you're on some kind of crusade. You think everyone who wants something different from you has been brainwashed or repressed or given no options, it seems. Very strange indeed.

 

The simple fact that we are living creatures is what drives both men and women to want children. It may not even be a conscious thought as clear as "I want a baby", but it is at least half of the drive behind "I want to have sex". The other more conscious thought is "I want pleasure".

 

There are good things that can come from having children that have little to do with physical pleasure and the drive to multiply the species. A tribe of your own. Unity and a support network in your older years. Friends (if you're really lucky) and basic companionship. For some of us, the first time we will experience true love from someone of the opposite gender is with our kids. Romantic love can have so many strings attached.

 

True. I think romantic love can be lovely as well, though. It often goes awry but I've seen it, when done right, aged well, and devoted, do truly lovely things. I've seen couples who've been together for decades still want to spend as much time together as possible, and partners pull each other through bad times, and help each other in any number of ways. I think on boards like this romantic love (even with all its failings) gets a bad rap.

[Mr.Cairo]

The simple fact that we are living creatures is what drives both men and women to want children. It may not even be a conscious thought as clear as "I want a baby", but it is at least half of the drive behind "I want to have sex". The other more conscious thought is "I want pleasure".

 

There are good things that can come from having children that have little to do with physical pleasure and the drive to multiply the species. A tribe of your own. Unity and a support network in your older years. Friends (if you're really lucky) and basic companionship. For some of us, the first time we will experience true love from someone of the opposite gender is with our kids. Romantic love can have so many strings attached.

 

I remember reading a foreign study that suggested that half of the births every year, in that Country, were caused by the pill failing. From the pill failing to the condom breaking, and the stigma of abortion, yeah, I could see that. Many people with children have them because of technical errors.

 

To assume that people want to have children because they breath and they talk is a little old-fashioned, I think. I'm not interested in boxing. But I'm a guy. Shouldn't I be keen on watching two apes punching their teeth off?

 

If we are going to take the biological road, then having a relationship is impossible because human beings are wired to pair up with the same person until the child is 4 years old or close to it.

 

So it is wise for any man and any woman to not invest time, money, and resources on someone else.

 

Again, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I'm displaying a different lifestyle.

 

That said, I've noticed that every woman as soon as she has a baby in front of her, she turns into sweetness. Oppression can exist in every form. What if women weren't affected by babies like that?

 

To think that human beings put so much importance and change their lives on the account of hormones and chemical reactions sure is funny and depressing at the the same time.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Mr.Cairo

[sally4sara]

To assume that people want to have children because they breath and they talk is a little old-fashioned, I think. I'm not interested in boxing. But I'm a guy. Shouldn't I be keen on watching two apes punching their teeth off?

 

If we are going to take the biological road, then having a relationship is impossible because human beings are wired to pair up with the same person until the child is 4 years old or close to it.

 

I'm not talking about social conditioning or pairing temp or perm. All living things are driven to multiply. From a person to virus/bacteria. Its a basic drive akin to consumption.

 

How else should we react to something harmless and new?

[EasyHeart]

That's what I'm doing. I'm presenting a different reality from the traditional. Why do I do it? Because to many people, they've been taught that there's only one way of living life. And that's very sad.

Are you 80? You seem to be stuck in the 1950s. Who in this day and age has "been taught that there's only one way of living life"?

 

I assume you're just playing with us, right?

[EasyHeart]

By the way, we seem to have veered far off-topic.

 

Can we please get back to discussing how Lemonade is the pushy queen of Slut Town?

[Woggle]

Mr Cairo thinks he is radical and different when in reality it is a cliche these days. People who actually make a relationship and a family work these days are the real radicals if you ask me. To do that in a dog eat dog self centered society these days is damn near revolutionary.

[Mr.Cairo]

Are you 80? You seem to be stuck in the 1950s. Who in this day and age has "been taught that there's only one way of living life"?

 

I assume you're just playing with us, right?

 

I've extensively explained my ideals before. Read them if you will, but I'm not going to explain it all over again.

[Mr.Cairo]

I'm not talking about social conditioning or pairing temp or perm. All living things are driven to multiply. From a person to virus/bacteria. Its a basic drive akin to consumption.

 

How else should we react to something harmless and new?

 

We are driven to have sex. Pregnancy is the result of having unprotected sex(or failed protection) in many, many cases. The desire to have children at least before the biological clock starts to tick in is not there.

 

If we were all driven to have babies wouldn't everyone be having babies as soon as possible? How can there be men having vasectomies done and women abortion and women not having babies at all, if we are so driven to make babies?

 

The Western world is not exactly stable enough to have children, but the easier access to anti conceptions and the more opportunities a man and a woman have, the less babies are made. Many of the more educated women remain childless while the less educated are having lots of kids.

 

Look at Europe. Europe has an average of 1 child per couple. The Muslims have like 5 kids per couple and the Indians have a high number too.

 

What is the difference between the Europeans and the Muslims? The Muslim society is very patriarchal. They treat their dogs better than they treat women.

 

Our western world is still patriarchal but much less so. Given the chance women are going to rather enjoy their freedom, unlike acting like breeding machines driven to do so by the patriarchy.

Abortion rates are still high.

In the United States, about 2% of women get an abortion each year, and more than 20% of total pregnancies end in abortion (Elam-Evans et al., 2002 p. 1, 3; The Alan Guttmacher Institute, 2005). Furthermore, the United States has the highest adolescent birth rate in the industrialized world — about four times the European Union average, and more than 10 times the rate in Japan and Korea. In fact, one in five girls has a child by the time she turns 20 (UNICEF International Child Development Centre, 2001). Nearly one million teenage girls become pregnant in the U.S. each year, and 78% of these pregnancies are unintended (The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, 2001).

 

I don't believe that human beings intend on having children all that much. I think that many, MANY babies are the result of failed contraception or lack of interest in using it.

 

I have to drink water. If I don't drink it I will die. Then it's logical to assume that water is essential to life, but the desire to have a child does not exist in many, many people and I wonder whether there'd be as many human beings as there are, if contraception was 100% effective, if there was no rape, and if so many women weren't brainwashed by society and by their hormones into having babies.

[Mr.Cairo]

Mr Cairo thinks he is radical and different when in reality it is a cliche these days. People who actually make a relationship and a family work these days are the real radicals if you ask me. To do that in a dog eat dog self centered society these days is damn near revolutionary.

 

Self-centered? Let me see. I pay my bills. I have no debt. I have no obligation to anyone and I'm not having children just because I might one day have an hormone inside of me telling me that, it's that time, to have children because thousands of years ago most people didn't survive their infancy.

 

Zengirl, I don't know about that. The couples I see together after a year or two are usually older, in their 40's and up. They are from a time divorce wasn't looked at with good eyes and then again, we also don't know how those people are behind doors. Many people pretend to be happy while they aren't and many are being victims of their husbands and their wives but too afraid of telling about it.

[zengirl]

Self-centered? Let me see. I pay my bills. I have no debt. I have no obligation to anyone and I'm not having children just because I might one day have an hormone inside of me telling me that, it's that time, to have children because thousands of years ago most people didn't survive their infancy.

 

Zengirl, I don't know about that. The couples I see together after a year or two are usually older, in their 40's and up. They are from a time divorce wasn't looked at with good eyes and then again, we also don't know how those people are behind doors. Many people pretend to be happy while they aren't and many are being victims of their husbands and their wives but too afraid of telling about it.

 

I know many happy couples in their 20s (my age) who are married and just starting families. I've also known many happy couples my parentsI' and grandparents ages. I think it's pretty fallacious to assume they aren't happy behind closed doors without any evidence. You seem extremely biased in your views and will accept nothing that is not exactly how your worldview allows it for some reason.

 

And what does having no debt have to do with being self-centered? That's pretty silly. You do sound somewhat self-centered----your life is all about you and you want to keep it that way. Some people choose that. It seems pretty slight to me, but to each their own. It's just silly to act like you are somehow repressed or that everyone who doesn't do things the way you do just hasn't seen the possibilities.

[Woggle]

I do agree with him that the majority of married couples are most likely miserable. When I hear about a man proposing I feel like warning him not to go through with it. I just feel that the few couples who are together and making it truly work are the real radicals in this day and age. When my wife mentions that she is actually happy and has no desire to cheat some people look at her like she has two heads. Sometimes I feel a woman is better off confessing to murder than actually admitting she is happy with her husband.

[Jynxx]

Third date sex doesn't make you look slutty.

Waiting a month or more for sex would drive me crazy. If there isn't any sexual tension and attraction after a month or more, how can you ever stay in a relationship with that person? It would be a guaranteed way into a life of celibacy interrupted by once a month unimaginative missionaryposition sex, and I doubt any quality man or woman wants that

[cutecatch]

You must be new back to the dating game? Wait as long as you can. 5th date? Can you make it? 7th? Seriously, men love being made to wait. Its pathetic, but absolutely true.

 

Men love being made to wait. Where did you get that from? Don't play any games just go for it.

[jane100]

In a way thats true.

 

Don't play games! Sleep with "him" when you want! "Be yourself"! Be confident! All that is true, so I go back on what I said somewhat.

 

HOWEVER, I think what I was alluding to was - if you sleep with someone too soon - as most young women do - they don't see you fully as EMOTIONALLY and INTELLECTUALLy individuals, as they could have if you'd waited. Women see themselves (encouraged by the media) as largely sexual beings. Of course they are that, but so much more. Thats what IMO you need to get into!

 

Good luck Lemonade!

[jane100]

Sex on the first date does not make a girl slutty. If she is a slut than so am I. I judge women on how they treat men and their attitude. Is a single woman having sex on the first date sluttier than a married woman having sex after a year long emotional affair? I think not. Men need to stop approaching dating like a numbers game and instead look at the character and essence of who a woman actually is.

 

 

By the way, like a reformed alcoholic, I must add as a young woman I always used to sleep with men too soon, so perhaps that explains my original wait-for-sex stance.

 

But I was never a slut, that horrible word. I was always into the man, I just couldn't control my impulses. I am actually the faithful, loyal, loving type.

 

So I agree, don't always judge a book by its cover, especially when its the double=standard dished out to women.

[mr.dream merchant]

Over past couple of years I have run into the "I don't usually do this" girls.

 

As I grow older and more mature, starting to learn that how you feel, and the chemistry...they're both factors that cannot be helped. I've slept with some (now I know they're classy) women who put out on the first date. But back then, I was more of a skeptic when it came to honest women, so all I could really see was "If she slept with me this easy, she sleeps with other guys this easy".

 

There's some truth in that, but it's not always the case so ultimately you can't go by that at all.

 

I've been with some women who were KNOWN for their easy and trashy ways (gangbangs, etc.)...but when they met me, they wouldn't put out for a month or so because they really liked me and wanted to make it work.

 

When emotions are running high, and the chemistry is-a-reacting, human beings are liable to do anything.

 

As a general rule of thumb, I wouldn't encourage sex early because it's a riskier choice. But because the subject isn't as black and white as people make it out to be, all you have to go with is what your mind, heart, and body are telling you.

 

I myself have missed out on incredible...incredible women, because they were so into me and so comfortable with me, they were willing to go all the way within a small amount of time of us being involved. Am I kicking myself in the nuts over it now? Eeeehhh, kind of but only because I'm still single but there will always be more women in due time. <-sort of besides the point

 

Point is - do what you feel is right for you, and make sure that he is as well. Make sure to use protection, and if you're both clean, some form of birth control.

 

People are different with varying tastes to boot. Some people will be more skeptical others will not.

 

Cheers though OP, at least someone has some prospects. I'm tired of spanking it to Esperanza Gomez and Lucy Thai - I need a real woman.