To my MM and his W, my ugly truth...

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Nemo, do you think if you had not turned MM down that his now wife would have become his OW?

 

One thing you can be sure of is that whatever he does, it is because that's what HE wants, what suits him, and he's special enough that everyone else thinks he deserves it as well, even to their own detriment. Love doesn't hurt. You've ended other relationships without spending years pining away, I don't think that the difference here is "love". Why are you punishing yourself like this?

[Silly_Girl]

I don't understand the game playing. Life is so short...it just seems like a waste of time and energy to go this route. Won't it just add to the turmoil that already exists?

 

Excellent post, Bent!

[whichwayisup]

I'm with Owl and Bent on this. Why play games? Don't lower yourself to that standard just to make a point to him or screw him over.

 

Thanks for the hug. I own my need for revenge 100%!! But even that must have a positive outcome. I want MM to live a free and open life being honest with the people he loves

 

The thing is, you can't make someone be honest. He has to decide to do that on his own.

 

I need to read your posts in this thread a few more times before I respond more..

[findingnemo]

Oh..MM loves me AND he loves his W. Of that I'm certain. The problem is that he loves himself a lot more than he loves any of us.

 

Thats ALWAYS it. OW and BS are never competing for anything other than 2nd place because 1st is taken.

 

It sounds like you want him and you want to ruin him. Which is it?

 

I don't want to ruin him. I want to ruin the facade he's put up. I want him physically (no need to deny that) and I am clear that I love him. I am not so sure many times if I even like him though...is that normal??

 

About being #1 or #2...I never had a problem seeing that people love themselves 1st. But as I said in the OP, I need MM to be in a sitch where he is himself, no acting, no hiding his fears, hopes, needs because he is with me for a few hours or days. In that kind of sitch, it is quite possible that I won't like the real him and will find that the man I love doesn't really exist. In essence, that is my goal. My heart needs to see the man for who he really is and digest that. So whether I want him for myself is not clear cut.

 

OK...so I'm at a bit of a loss here.

 

If you love him...and he loves you...why are you looking to use him for business purposes?

 

I get that he's self-centered...don't take me wrong.

 

But are you willing to become the kind of person who would play that game?

 

You seem like a solid person who's made some poor choices over time. Why make a choice like this, with full intent to basically decieve and use him?

 

That's not the kind of person I think you want to be, FN.

 

If you feel this way...if you feel enough anger/angst/whatever to be able to use him like this...then I'd think you'd feel enough emotion to free yourself from the situation and walk away.

 

I think you'll be truer to yourself by removing him from your life than you would by using him in the fashion you've described.

 

Owl,

 

What you say makes absolute sense...for anyone but me. I have walked away from the R, had NC, married and now separated but I never moved on. To be true to myself, I need to balance being with MM, not being an OW and not causing W pain. Impossible.

 

And no...I won't use him in the true sense. I will just use his desires against him. Maybe I can't see it, but how would it make me a bad person if I turned the tables on him? I would love nothing but to forget him and walk away. As time has shown, it won't happen on its own. Another important fact I may not have mentioned is that regardless of my R with MM, he will never quite be out of sight. Same social circles, business ties, etc.

 

I don't understand the game playing. Life is so short...it just seems like a waste of time and energy to go this route. Won't it just add to the turmoil that already exists?

 

Yes, bent. It seems like a lot of work, energy and plotting. It sounds tedious, doesn't it? Is it worth it? I went through a lot of psychological self-torture being an OW. Although I was young and single and could have had any single man I wanted ( ignore the self-conceit), I was in constant fear that people would know about my tryst with a MM. When I broke it off and got married, I thought the fear would disappear. My H discovered how much I loved MM and everytime he got violent (with zero provocation) and had to explain to family why, he cited my attachment to a MM. So even in my M, I lived in fear because I loved MM. I never cheated on my H, mind you. But he held the threat of exposing my A with a MM to the entire world if I ever exposed his violence. Now I'm separated and beginning to rebuild my businesses, and what does MM do? Knowing how I feel about him, knowing that I am probably lonely from almost 2 years of being alone, knowing that I am now a single mom with all the attendant problems and stress, he makes a play for me.

 

Yes, the sh*t will hit the fan in my circles. The turmoil will be a thousand times more than it ever was and my greatest fear will come to pass. But I'm not that girl anymore. I no longer judge things based on rules and regulations I never participated in setting in the first place. I can't deny that I'll be scandalized to some extent. But you know what? I'll be free, I'll be free to admit openly that I love or don't love this man. He will be free too to either love me or leave me. W will know the truth and will be free to choose now. Whether she will appreciate this or not is something I can't control. The scandal shall pass...and the darkness shall come to an end.

 

No, it's not a waste of time. It may be the best use of any of the time I've given this man.

[findingnemo]

Nemo, do you think if you had not turned MM down that his now wife would have become his OW?

 

One thing you can be sure of is that whatever he does, it is because that's what HE wants, what suits him, and he's special enough that everyone else thinks he deserves it as well, even to their own detriment. Love doesn't hurt. You've ended other relationships without spending years pining away, I don't think that the difference here is "love". Why are you punishing yourself like this?

 

Wishes, if I could figure out for sure that this is not "love", I'd be the happiest person in the world. I'm in reality a pretty self-aware person. I can't ever be accused of being too nice although I've not heard that I'm selfish either. So this pining for MM is quite uncharacteristic compared to everything else in my life. I have dumped guys with not a thought as to how they would feel but I'm not sure if it wasn't because my heart was always with MM anyway. The only other person I loved before MM was my H who was my very first crush. Surely I can't be doing this for myself...

[Owl]

You're on a destructive path, my friend. Probably self-destructive more than anything else.

 

Regardless, I wish you well. Not much advice or support that I can offer in this situation, so I'll respectfully bow out and watch to see how this situation plays out. I hope that everything turns out the best possible way it can, for all three of you involved in this situation.

[findingnemo]

I don't think you're "evil" Nemo.

I think you're being very honest.

 

I feel your frustration and your pain.

 

Are you planning on really sending them the letter - or are you writing it here to vent so you don't really send it?

 

I hope you finally find your peace and your happiness

 

Hi Tigercub,

 

I'm not sending her a letter. I was expressing myself, explaining my position to myself. I needed a medium in which to state how I feel and why I feel that way. I have made a decision on what I will do about MM, my EA and this whole lets-do-business-together-thing.

 

Sorry, I missed this post.

[lovingwhatis]

Finding Nemo,

 

When I read only your first post, I could feel your pain and determination to get some resolution in this situation. It's been too long, as you said, and has tormented you for too long. Yes, now is a time for action (on many levels), and you are feeling this urge I suppose unlike any other time in your life.

 

My advice to you is ask for Grace. I am not religious, and had I not experienced a state of Grace in relation to the EA, I would have never known what this means. If you believe in something higher than ourselves, this may be the time when you let this torment be influenced by that higher power. You are completely entrenched now in your pain, love, longing, fear, all Feelings like you mention, and these things are not ruled by the head. Your head is making a diabolical plan, a plan that may very well level you. And it will be of your doing, many intense scenarios may unfold, and this is the point in time when you are actually fully considering the repercussions, so do so, but NOT with your head, with your heart.

 

Sorry for this rather "philosophical" response. I hope you don't barf when you read it. I've written it from my heart.

 

All this is about FEELINGS, not about business or making money. I can make money on my own as I've been doing all along. What pi$$es me off is that he wants to harness my feelings to enrich his business. Analytically, logically and with focus, I have concluded that if I play to the whole business idea and act like I am onboard, I will get him back into a PA and expose him with evidence.

 

I can afford to make and then lose a million dollars - it's just money anyway. What I can't afford is to have my heart broken again.

 

 

 

Thanks for the hug. I own my need for revenge 100%!! But even that must have a positive outcome. I want MM to live a free and open life being honest with the people he loves.

 

 

 

Hear, hear, GG!!!

 

 

 

GG,

 

MM can't lure me in anymore than he already has. I have zero capacity to completely deny him. Oh, I can refuse to sleep with him no problem. But I do love him. My plan is to fly in in the morning and leave the same afternoon. No hanky panky on this trip. The only ace I have (and didn't realize I had all along) is to make sure that MM is completely roped in and the W finds out.

[FightClub]

It's always been my belief that everyone must follow their own path wherever the road takes them, the things we least expect happen and the things we expect somethings never come to fruition.

 

FindingNemo, I say this as a supportive person and as someone who knows what it feels like of not being together with my xMW...Do what you feel in your heart is right.

 

As Owl and Bent have said, it does seem very self-destructive and you could very well be in more pain than you are now but whatever your decision is, let it be for you...and just take pride in knowing that we care.

 

Every man/woman must choose a path for themselves. Take the path and be secure knowing that. Best of luck.

 

-FC

[findingnemo]

Finding Nemo,

 

When I read only your first post, I could feel your pain and determination to get some resolution in this situation. It's been too long, as you said, and has tormented you for too long. Yes, now is a time for action (on many levels), and you are feeling this urge I suppose unlike any other time in your life.

 

My advice to you is ask for Grace. I am not religious, and had I not experienced a state of Grace in relation to the EA, I would have never known what this means. If you believe in something higher than ourselves, this may be the time when you let this torment be influenced by that higher power. You are completely entrenched now in your pain, love, longing, fear, all Feelings like you mention, and these things are not ruled by the head. Your head is making a diabolical plan, a plan that may very well level you. And it will be of your doing, many intense scenarios may unfold, and this is the point in time when you are actually fully considering the repercussions, so do so, but NOT with your head, with your heart.

 

Sorry for this rather "philosophical" response. I hope you don't barf when you read it. I've written it from my heart.

 

 

Hi Loving,

 

I'm not religious either. I guess I'm spiritual in that I pray. I've asked for so many things. Grace was one of them. What I need most is wisdom, courage and most of all mercy.

 

Thanks, Loving.:love:

[lovingwhatis]

I am So glad, Finding nemo. I am envisioning for you the wisdom, courage, and mercy so you can find your way back to Peace.

 

Hi Loving,

 

I'm not religious either. I guess I'm spiritual in that I pray. I've asked for so many things. Grace was one of them. What I need most is wisdom, courage and most of all mercy.

 

Thanks, Loving.:love:

[PorkRinds]

I don't have the time or the energy to kiss 12 frogs before I get to a "prince".

 

 

What if "the frog" is you?

[PorkRinds]

Be good, be moral. That's the ideal, right? Well, being good is killing me. Being moral is making me sick.

 

Your honesty is refreshing.

[PorkRinds]

I think this is your extremely honest feelings and I think you should certfy mail your mm and his wife each their own copy of this letter. It may be painful but it will end this rollercoaster one way or the other. He will either choose to fight for his marriage or he will be relieved she finally knows and he can come to you.

 

 

I don't understand why you let him go before he got married. The man was not married, why didn't you go for it then? Why wait till he's married with a family?

 

 

Lord no don't do this, OP. Venting anonymously on the internet is a good outlet, but if you send what you wrote to the MM and/or his wife you are going to end up with a restraining order filed against you.

[PorkRinds]

Don't you get it? She can't end it. She has tried and tried and tried to end it and she can't. It is time for the final act to play out and for this man to get what he deserves. As far as I am concerned this PIG took nemo's young life from her and wasted years and years playing with her emotions.

 

Since you're encouraging her down a reckless confrontational path why not offer to pay for her legal defense costs as well?

[seren]

Hi Nemo,

 

You know, no one can let someone go, the person goes because they want to, because they let themselves leave. If a person doesn't want to leave, well even though the other ends it, they other is still in the position to make a choice about their next steps. The MM didn't decide to stick around and try to woo you into choosing him, he chose to get married and stay married. He also chose to have an A and you chose to be with him, the BS, of course has no choices. As we all know, D Day provides the BS with a choice, your letter, if sent, would undoubtedly give her a choice, but I would imagine the MM would twist it to show that you were lying - if he wanted to get out, he has had plenty of time to do so. He hasn't left, says he loves his wife, I would say he is unlikely to leave unless pushed out of the door.

 

You have posted very relfective thoughts, it cannot be easy being in business with someone who you love, but who is married to someone else. can you buy him out and go alone? It might make moving along easier, or do you need to ask MM what his intentions are regarding you and he? Would he lie to preserve a profitable business?

 

The truth is never, ever ugly, I would counsel against sending his wife a letter, it can often result in the married people circling the horses against the other person - that would be you in this instance.

 

If my H had chosen to be with the OW, I would, could not have hurt him, I would still have loved him, even though I would have been so hurt. Sometimes we cannot make somene be with us, we can still love them, but we have to just let it go. I should ask what the future holds and go from there. The beauty of LS is that it should allow for exploring feelings and exploring what if's. I hope you find peace.

seren

[xxoo]

Nemo, do you think if you had not turned MM down that his now wife would have become his OW?

 

I had the same question reading the OP. Have empathy for the BS, because it seems you were very close to having the opposite roles....

 

I find it very difficult to understand what you love about this man. He's been cheating since before he was married. When was he a good guy?

 

You seem very intelligent and successful. You admit you don't even like the guy a lot of the time, but feel certain you love him. Him, or an idea of him? The "idealized" man you fell for in your youth? The way you feel when you are with him?

 

Is it love--or a rush? An addiction? A diversion? A fixation?

 

This isn't love as I know it.

 

What I know--you can only control you. You will never control what this MM or his BS do. And he is trouble for you. What are you going to do about it? Stir up drama? Or create peace for yourself? What oats do you want to sow? Choose wisely!

[PorkRinds]

I find it very difficult to understand what you love about this man. He's been cheating since before he was married. When was he a good guy?

 

She wants what she can't have and doesn't want what she can have.

[WorldIsYours]

Lord no don't do this, OP. Venting anonymously on the internet is a good outlet, but if you send what you wrote to the MM and/or his wife you are going to end up with a restraining order filed against you.

 

And that'd be very disrespectful and hypocritical, considering she was messing with her husband.

[Lorelei_Lane]

Restraining order or not, I do feel that the wife needs to know what kind of person she's dealing with. It seems Nemo has actually tried to keep the MM from trying the affair repeatedly, at this point the only way to get any type of peace for all parties is for the wife to be aware of the monster she is actually married to.

 

Although I tend to be more hateful towards OW and OM, I have to say that the MM in this picture is the devil, pure and simple. And the poor BS needs to know what kind of monster her husband actually is. That's really the only way for ANYONE to get any kind of peace in this situation, INCLUDING Nemo. Maybe then everyone can get closure for knowing and realizing who this MM really is.

[WorldIsYours]

Restraining order or not, I do feel that the wife needs to know what kind of person she's dealing with. It seems Nemo has actually tried to keep the MM from trying the affair repeatedly, at this point the only way to get any type of peace for all parties is for the wife to be aware of the monster she is actually married to.

 

Although I tend to be more hateful towards OW and OM, I have to say that the MM in this picture is the devil, pure and simple. And the poor BS needs to know what kind of monster her husband actually is. That's really the only way for ANYONE to get any kind of peace in this situation, INCLUDING Nemo. Maybe then everyone can get closure for knowing and realizing who this MM really is.

 

Sending a letter when one is the OW, no matter what the intentions are, is disrespectful, foolish, contradicting, and counterproductive.

 

"I just wanted you to know you're husband, honey, is a liar and a cheat, even though I was the other woman involved with him. You need to tell him to stay away from me and keep him in check."

 

^^^^^

 

Seriously?

 

She'd just be getting herself in legal trouble and if the BW gets pissed off enough she might come after her for blood. She caused enough damage. Time to leave it alone while ya still got the chance to.

[Lorelei_Lane]

I disagree on not letting the BS know for one reason and one reason alone:

 

No one wants to be lied to. I'm a BS and I'm GLAD I knew and found out. I got to make an informed decision on whether or not to stay with my cheating husband.

 

I didn't say Nemo had to send what she wrote above, but the BS NEEDS TO KNOW what's going on. That's not fair for the BS to stay in the dark. I feel it's only fair for the BS to get to make the decision of staying with a man who may or may not cheat on her again.

 

You mean to tell me you wouldn't want to know if your SO was cheating on you? You wouldn't want to be made aware of the monster you're married to so you could make the decision of whether or not to stay?

[xxoo]

This is ironic to me. You need to see him where he is himself to see if this is a man you can like. BUT you have seen the real him, where he is himself. THIS IS WHO HE IS. I suspect this is something you already intuitively know.

 

Quoted for emphasis!

 

If you are rationalizing that you need to provoke a dramatic event to see who he is, you are reaching. He has shown you who he is. He may have pulled off a "good guy" facade when you were young and naive, but you are no longer young and naive.

 

When someone shows you who they really are--believe them!

[WorldIsYours]

I disagree on not letting the BS know for one reason and one reason alone:

 

No one wants to be lied to. I'm a BS and I'm GLAD I knew and found out. I got to make an informed decision on whether or not to stay with my cheating husband.

 

I didn't say Nemo had to send what she wrote above, but the BS NEEDS TO KNOW what's going on. That's not fair for the BS to stay in the dark. I feel it's only fair for the BS to get to make the decision of staying with a man who may or may not cheat on her again.

 

You mean to tell me you wouldn't want to know if your SO was cheating on you? You wouldn't want to be made aware of the monster you're married to so you could make the decision of whether or not to stay?

 

Didn't say she doesn't have a right to know, just that this OW will get in trouble if she does this.

[Emme]

:bunny:HUG:bunny: Nemo don't know what to say. I am giving you a high five and a hug. The emotions you are feeling are making you burst inside and you can't take it any longer. I remember once telling my mother that she needs to stop saying everything that is on her mind. She has a very free mouth when she's angry or passionate about something. Her response to me was I can't keep it in. If I don't talk it's going to make me go crazy, I have to let it out. If you feel in your heart and soul that this is something you have to do or you'll burst. Just do it. I think what I am learnig here on the forum is everyone's love is different. The intense level of love or passion differs. I wish you the best in whatever road you choose to walk.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Emme