Do I confess Now?

[SadDazedConfused]

I also gave him all the sordid details about both of the men I was with. Where, when, how, in what position, etc.

 

He promised he wouldn't get angry and throw it back in my face, that he just had to know. He kept his promise and told me he'd tell me whatever I want to know. Right now, I just want to know what emotions he was feeling when he did what he did. What was running through his head when he made the decision to sleep with another woman, and how he felt after. I don't want to know what position, if he orgasmed, etc. He told me that at the time, he enjoyed the sex. That it felt good, and it was what he felt was missing in his life. Passion, being desired, etc. That he didn't feel bad until later.

[Memphis Raines]

I also gave him all the sordid details about both of the men I was with. Where, when, how, in what position, etc.

 

He promised he wouldn't get angry and throw it back in my face, that he just had to know. He kept his promise

 

oh give it time. the longer he has to sit and think about this, the angrier he will get. It isn't a pleasant thought knowing your wife opened up and let another guy in and out of her over and over. sorry about the graphics, but thats how he will play it out in his mind. and he won't bottle it up for long.

 

as a woman, i don't know how you process what he did. but i can tell you as a man, the knowledge he has about what you did, and the humility if anyone else knows, is emasculating. he will look to stop feeling emasculated, whether it be lashing out, or other behaviors.

[ShatteredReality]

I agree with Memphis. He will not lose it until later. Maybe he won't lash out against you...but on the flip side, if he uses it against you it will be because he kinda can't help it. That doesn't mean he gets to walk all over you with it, just be prepared to have that to contend with in the future. Might be best to stash away some reasonable responses for future use so you don't say something on accident to make the situation worse or escalate the argument. It's important to try to stay reasonable...one of you will need to be able to have a cool head, even if you take turns being that person.

[soserious1]

Sad, about the only advice I can offer you is to give him whatever details he asks for in full detail without attempting to filter anything. I would also caution you to avoid playing the "I don't remember" card because that either indicates a lie or.. even worse conveys the idea that you felt so little for your husband that you threw him under the bus for events that were so inconsequential that you can't even remember them.

 

Also, unlike what shatteredreality advises, consider that telling your husband the full details whenever he asks a question is for HIS benefit, to give him the full information he needs to decide the rest of his life and not to help you to "begin to feel a bit better about yourself"

[Memphis Raines]

I agree with Memphis. He will not lose it until later. Maybe he won't lash out against you...but on the flip side, if he uses it against you it will be because he kinda can't help it. That doesn't mean he gets to walk all over you with it, just be prepared to have that to contend with in the future.

 

I agree, he doesn't get to use it against her, especially when he cheated too. Just giving her a little insight into how men think about betrayal. It isn't just being betrayed, we sit there and think of all the things they did, how the wife enjoyed it and what she did to the OM that they wouldn't do for the husband. The visuals eat us up and we WILL get angry.

[ShatteredReality]

I agree, he doesn't get to use it against her, especially when he cheated too. Just giving her a little insight into how men think about betrayal. It isn't just being betrayed, we sit there and think of all the things they did, how the wife enjoyed it and what she did to the OM that they wouldn't do for the husband. The visuals eat us up and we WILL get angry.

 

Completely understood - I think your insight was great. It's best to be prepared...it helps to keep situations from getting out of control. Like I said...when he does blow up about it, it's going to be because he can't help himself.

[ShatteredReality]

Also, unlike what shatteredreality advises, consider that telling your husband the full details whenever he asks a question is for HIS benefit, to give him the full information he needs to decide the rest of his life and not to help you to "begin to feel a bit better about yourself"

 

As of yet they're talking like the marriage won't survive. If that's the case she will eventually need to do SOMETHING to feel better about herself. Being honest with him and with herself will be integral in moving forward. And as I recall, I said "if nothing else" or "at least" or something to that effect...meaning if there is no other positive outcome than her feeling better than herself then so be it. Can we call a truce already? You don't have to pick on me ya know, we can agree to disagree.

[soserious1]

As of yet they're talking like the marriage won't survive. If that's the case she will eventually need to do SOMETHING to feel better about herself. Being honest with him and with herself will be integral in moving forward. And as I recall, I said "if nothing else" or "at least" or something to that effect...meaning if there is no other positive outcome than her feeling better than herself then so be it. Can we call a truce already? You don't have to pick on me ya know, we can agree to disagree.

 

And there it is in a nutshell.. the number 1 reason I feel that divorce is the best outcome when infidelity happens. So many wandering spouses for some reason have great difficulty wrapping their minds around the idea of doing something solely for the benefit of the spouse they cheated on. Nope, there always has to be something in it for them.

 

The OP set off the chain of events leading to the demise of her marriage, she needs to take responsibility by giving her husband full factual details, omitting nothing no matter how badly it makes her look. She started this train wreck, it's the least she can do for him.

[bentnotbroken]

ShatteredReality

 

What I think is really "rude" behavior is cheating on one's spouse.

 

Sorry but your husband didn't get a chance to vote on whether or not he was okay with your choice to step outside your marriage, you now don't get to decide how fast or if he heals from your betrayal. At one point you clearly felt that throwing your husband away for a chance to jump in the sack with another man was a great idea, clearly your husband just wants to have a very vivid picture of exactly what you were so willing to betray him for, gives him a much better understanding of what's important to you after all.

 

And yes, I believe that once a person has shown themselves as willing to throw their spouse under the bus that they'll be all too likely to repeat the same in future.

 

 

So you are saying her husband is going to cheat on her in the future....possibly. Her husband did everything that she has admitted to him doing...what should we say about him? I don't believe in cheating, but she isn't in this mess alone. He is a participant in his own right.

[bentnotbroken]

And there it is in a nutshell.. the number 1 reason I feel that divorce is the best outcome when infidelity happens. So many wandering spouses for some reason have great difficulty wrapping their minds around the idea of doing something solely for the benefit of the spouse they cheated on. Nope, there always has to be something in it for them.

 

The OP set off the chain of events leading to the demise of her marriage, she needs to take responsibility by giving her husband full factual details, omitting nothing no matter how badly it makes her look. She started this train wreck, it's the least she can do for him.

 

 

Does it matter who did what first? Her BS/WS is saying the same thing that so many say...."blah did something first so I retaliated by doing the same mess" Bullcrap!

[ShatteredReality]

And there it is in a nutshell.. the number 1 reason I feel that divorce is the best outcome when infidelity happens. So many wandering spouses for some reason have great difficulty wrapping their minds around the idea of doing something solely for the benefit of the spouse they cheated on. Nope, there always has to be something in it for them.

 

The OP set off the chain of events leading to the demise of her marriage, she needs to take responsibility by giving her husband full factual details, omitting nothing no matter how badly it makes her look. She started this train wreck, it's the least she can do for him.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to find something positive in a negative situation. If she bend over backwards to try to make everything right by him and he still turns away from her then there's nothing wrong with her finding something good out of the work she did FOR HIM.

 

Lest we not forget he also cheated on her. He was not aware of her affair and if he was that suspicious or that unhappy with her treatment of him why didn't he leave her? Why did he cheat on two seperate occasions and then basically say it was her fault he did so? His actions aren't her fault. Her actions aren't his fault - blame shifting doesn't solve the problem. It only makes it worse. They are in this situation now, the best they can do is try to dig out of it or at least find common ground where they can do right by their children.

[bentnotbroken]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to find something positive in a negative situation. If she bend over backwards to try to make everything right by him and he still turns away from her then there's nothing wrong with her finding something good out of the work she did for him.

 

lest we not forget he also cheated on her. He was not aware of her affair and if he was that suspicious or that unhappy with her treatment of him why didn't he leave her? Why did he cheat on two seperate occasions and then basically say it was her fault he did so? His actions aren't her fault. Her actions aren't his fault - blame shifting doesn't solve the problem. It only makes it worse. They are in this situation now, the best they can do is try to dig out of it or at least find common ground where they can do right by their children.

 

 

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ComputerJock]

Thanks for clearing things up, mayeb it was your tone that set me off. YOur one in a millon, too many WW don't make the effort to restore their marriages. A pat on the back, hope it lasts.

[ShatteredReality]

Thanks for clearing things up, mayeb it was your tone that set me off. YOur one in a millon, too many WW don't make the effort to restore their marriages. A pat on the back, hope it lasts.

 

Thanks CJ. I'm sorry if my tone came off offensive/smug/or any of the words currently escaping my brain (haven't had my coffee yet this morning - isn't that pathetic). It can be very easy to misinterpret typed messages and the tones they carry. I have high hopes for us too .

You also - btw - best to you.

Edited March 30, 2011 by ShatteredReality
sp

[SadDazedConfused]

We had a long talk last night and hopefully all the truth and details came out on both sides. I admit, I asked for some details that I truly wish I didn't know in regard to the sex acts. I am having a hard time knowing how intimate he was with her, and he admits that while he was doing it, he didn't feel bad about what he was doing. He did afterward and does now, but at the time of his cheating, he did not. Being with the other women made him feel good and filled the void he felt, and he admits he enjoyed it, and it wasn't until after, later down the road that he felt guilty. He broke off the longer of the two affairs (the other was a one night stand out of town), when he started feeling guilty and realizing the whole thing was wrong.

 

To this point, I was the one who was willing to move forward and try and get over this, no matter what. He kept telling me that once I knew more and had to deal with what he had done, that I might change my mind and it would be harder to get over things. He was right. To this point, he was really the only one who was truly trying to cope with the things I had done. He knew all the details and was trying to deal with whether he could get over them or not. I claimed to be, but I don't think I truly was until now. It isn't going to be easy, and frankly, I don't know if I can, but I am going to try, and he said that he is going to try as well.

 

In our talking, it came out that a few years ago, I was drunk with my friends camping and ended up kissing another man. He approached me and kissed me, and I didn't try to stop him, and admittedly kissed him back for a few moments until my senses came to me and I stopped him. I hadn't told him about it yet, because he hadn't asked. I guess I should have just told him outright, but in the end, he knows now. I think it was shocking for him to hear that that happened. The idea to this point, that all of my cheating had been limited to so many years ago, and now to hear that recently, I had made out with another man, kind of threw things for a loop. I was drunk and I guess I liked the attention and the fact that the guy found me attractive and wanted to kiss me, so I didn't stop him. I know drinking isn't an excuse, but I wouldn't have done it if I was sober.

 

There is so much to deal with at this point though. Infidelity everywhere, trust issues, etc...not to mention all of the other relationship issues we had before the infidelity came up.

[bentnotbroken]

We had a long talk last night and hopefully all the truth and details came out on both sides. I admit, I asked for some details that I truly wish I didn't know in regard to the sex acts. I am having a hard time knowing how intimate he was with her, and he admits that while he was doing it, he didn't feel bad about what he was doing. He did afterward and does now, but at the time of his cheating, he did not. Being with the other women made him feel good and filled the void he felt, and he admits he enjoyed it, and it wasn't until after, later down the road that he felt guilty. He broke off the longer of the two affairs (the other was a one night stand out of town), when he started feeling guilty and realizing the whole thing was wrong.

 

To this point, I was the one who was willing to move forward and try and get over this, no matter what. He kept telling me that once I knew more and had to deal with what he had done, that I might change my mind and it would be harder to get over things. He was right. To this point, he was really the only one who was truly trying to cope with the things I had done. He knew all the details and was trying to deal with whether he could get over them or not. I claimed to be, but I don't think I truly was until now. It isn't going to be easy, and frankly, I don't know if I can, but I am going to try, and he said that he is going to try as well.

 

In our talking, it came out that a few years ago, I was drunk with my friends camping and ended up kissing another man. He approached me and kissed me, and I didn't try to stop him, and admittedly kissed him back for a few moments until my senses came to me and I stopped him. I hadn't told him about it yet, because he hadn't asked. I guess I should have just told him outright, but in the end, he knows now. I think it was shocking for him to hear that that happened. The idea to this point, that all of my cheating had been limited to so many years ago, and now to hear that recently, I had made out with another man, kind of threw things for a loop. I was drunk and I guess I liked the attention and the fact that the guy found me attractive and wanted to kiss me, so I didn't stop him. I know drinking isn't an excuse, but I wouldn't have done it if I was sober.

 

There is so much to deal with at this point though. Infidelity everywhere, trust issues, etc...not to mention all of the other relationship issues we had before the infidelity came up.

 

 

Here's the deal. The marriage that the two of you had before is dead. Why would you want to resurrect that ball of mess? You and he are being honest...this is the beginning of becoming new people(honest people) and therefore there is a possiblilty of these two people forging a new marriage.......IF........

 

 

 

 

1)If you don't revert to old behavior.

 

2)If you continue to be honest even to the point of pain.

 

3)If you continue to hold yourself accountable for your actions(past, present and future. Don't let his actions reduce you a level lower than you want to be or your actions make your children ashamed)

 

4) If you use the past as a learning tool and not a hammer.

 

5) If everyday you strive to be better than the previous day

 

6)If you work toward a healthier you no matter the outcome

 

7)If you see the future temptations and deal with them together and in a healthy manner.

 

8)If you remember that marriage is work 24/7.

 

9) If you remember to make sure to feed those things that build a healthy marriage(respect, honor, love)and starve those things that kill individuals and marriages(selfishness, keeping score, emotional beat downs)

 

10)If you see the two of you together for the long haul.

 

I don't know if your counselor has suggested any books, but there are a few out there that are really good and may add some needed insight.

 

Love Busters

5 Love Languages/5 Languages of an Apology

His Nees/Her Needs

Setting Healthy Boundaries

Love is a Verb

[ShatteredReality]

I had a feeling his lack of remorse during his affair would come up as an issue once it sunk in for you. Also, knowing details is often a road block, even if it satisfies a curiousity...I hope for the best for you. Bent is totally right - you have some big IFs to make it work...but creating an entirely new relationship where the past is what you learned from and not what you use against one another is crucial. Love Busters was a good book - though I didn't read it competely myself - my H did. I was less into the books and more into articles, though I don't recall which ones I read as he found those for me as well. He spent hours on the topics of infidelity and saving a marriage...surviving an affair and such. There was another book he liked, How to Survive an Affair. And there is a website he spent a lot of time on (besides this one - though he spent a ton of time on here reading posts too) www.marriagebuilders.com

I think it's the guy who wrote Love busters as a matter of fact.

[SoulStorm]

We had a long talk last night and hopefully all the truth and details came out on both sides. I admit, I asked for some details that I truly wish I didn't know in regard to the sex acts. I am having a hard time knowing how intimate he was with her, and he admits that while he was doing it, he didn't feel bad about what he was doing. He did afterward and does now, but at the time of his cheating, he did not. Being with the other women made him feel good and filled the void he felt, and he admits he enjoyed it, and it wasn't until after, later down the road that he felt guilty. He broke off the longer of the two affairs (the other was a one night stand out of town), when he started feeling guilty and realizing the whole thing was wrong.

 

To this point, I was the one who was willing to move forward and try and get over this, no matter what. He kept telling me that once I knew more and had to deal with what he had done, that I might change my mind and it would be harder to get over things. He was right. To this point, he was really the only one who was truly trying to cope with the things I had done. He knew all the details and was trying to deal with whether he could get over them or not. I claimed to be, but I don't think I truly was until now. It isn't going to be easy, and frankly, I don't know if I can, but I am going to try, and he said that he is going to try as well.

 

In our talking, it came out that a few years ago, I was drunk with my friends camping and ended up kissing another man. He approached me and kissed me, and I didn't try to stop him, and admittedly kissed him back for a few moments until my senses came to me and I stopped him. I hadn't told him about it yet, because he hadn't asked. I guess I should have just told him outright, but in the end, he knows now. I think it was shocking for him to hear that that happened. The idea to this point, that all of my cheating had been limited to so many years ago, and now to hear that recently, I had made out with another man, kind of threw things for a loop. I was drunk and I guess I liked the attention and the fact that the guy found me attractive and wanted to kiss me, so I didn't stop him. I know drinking isn't an excuse, but I wouldn't have done it if I was sober.

 

There is so much to deal with at this point though. Infidelity everywhere, trust issues, etc...not to mention all of the other relationship issues we had before the infidelity came up.

WOW! what kind of marriage do you both have?

Does either of you respect the other and can either of you limit intimacy to the other?

 

You both act like college roommates instead of husband and wife.

I realized that you are stunned by his actions.

Doesn't feel as good to be on the receiving side as opposed to the giving side of infidelity does it?

 

If you both can't commit, what are you married for?

 

First off..you need to know what you really want to do.

 

Save the marriage or divorce.

 

Once you decide this, then you both need to make a list of boundaries that will show empathy and respect to each other.

Trust is out the window for now.

You both need to take precautions so that trust can be rebuilt

Do you still love each other enough to try?

 

I hate to say this SDC, but your boundaries are way too loose. You need a stronger set of boundaries around men.

 

Alcohol or not..a lady can be defined by her ability to maintain her integrity and honor.

 

How do you think men view you if they possibly know you are married and tries to kiss you anyway?

 

This means either they sense that about you by something you do or someone told them something about you.

 

Start paying attention..how do men view you who know you and think about it..don't just say they respect me..obviously something is telling them not to.

 

Men will be men, but they will respect a woman who makes her boundaries known, especially a married woman.

[SadDazedConfused]

I'm not sure if the guy that kissed me realized I was married or not. I had my wedding ring on, but honestly, it seems like these days, many men don't care.

 

I know alcohol isn't an excuse. There had been other instances in the past when I know a guy wanted to kiss me or would have gone there, but I wasn't that drunk, and it never happened. So I guess my guard was down enough that I didn't stop it.

 

We both do love each other, and have both said that we are willing to try to work through all of this to see if we can get past it. It's just a matter of being able to get past all the horrible things we've done to each other.

[Memphis Raines]

I'm not sure if the guy that kissed me realized I was married or not. I had my wedding ring on, but honestly, it seems like these days, many men don't care.

 

I know alcohol isn't an excuse. There had been other instances in the past when I know a guy wanted to kiss me or would have gone there, but I wasn't that drunk, and it never happened. So I guess my guard was down enough that I didn't stop it.

 

Now I think I see the problem. You put yourself in alot of positions to be kissed. Where was your husband during all these times men had the opportunity to kiss you?

 

Could it be you have a lifestyle condusive to possible cheating?

[SadDazedConfused]

I don't think my or his lifestyles are conducive to cheating necessarily. I go out with my girlfriends maybe once a month or less, and on some of those occasions, our table gets attention from other men. Some of my friends aren't married, and are looking for that attention. Well a guy might show her attention, and then his buddies come over to the table as well. I make it pretty clear that I am married and not interested. I know I have liked the attention before, and I need to want that attention from my husband and not another man, so I try not to put myself into that position. Liking the attention was what made me have the affairs in the first place, or at least one of the reasons.

 

My husband goes out with his buddies about the same amount of the time. They go out and drink too much and watch football or baseball or UFC or whatever. Part of our problems were that we were making time for our friends, but then not making time for each other. We have both realized that now.

 

Some of the other occasions when guys were showing me attention and something could have happened and my husband wasn't around, was when I'd go back home to visit my friends and family. I'd spend the day with my family, and then meet some HS friends at the local bars and we'd hang out and inevitably other old friends (both male and female) would show up and come and talk to us. We'd all hang out, and sometimes go to someone's house after the bar to hang some more and talk. I wouldn't put the vibe out there that I was looking to hook up, I think I put the opposite out there. It was very obvious and known that I am married, so I wouldn't think men would go there.

[Memphis Raines]

I don't think my or his lifestyles are conducive to cheating necessarily. I go out with my girlfriends maybe once a month or less, and on some of those occasions, our table gets attention from other men.

 

thats just it. what table are you talking about? a restaurant or a bar?

 

men just don't flock to a table of women at a restaurant, and if they do its because the behavior of the women invite the attention.

 

if it is at a bar or club, then yes, that is condusive to inviting attention and possible cheating. yes, it can happen anywhere, but its expected at a bar or club. And again, attention like what you are describing is invited by certain behaviors.

 

 

Some of my friends aren't married, and are looking for that attention. Well a guy might show her attention, and then his buddies come over to the table as well. I make it pretty clear that I am married and not interested.

 

again, because of the crowd you run with, or the places you frequent, they probably figure, sure you are married, but you wouldn't be wanting a little attention if you weren't here, and with a bunch of single women.

 

 

I know I have liked the attention before

 

exactly, which is the inviting attention with certain behaviors that I talked about above.

 

 

and I need to want that attention from my husband and not another man, so I try not to put myself into that position. Liking the attention was what made me have the affairs in the first place, or at least one of the reasons.

 

exactly. environment and behavior. lifestyle

 

 

Some of the other occasions when guys were showing me attention and something could have happened and my husband wasn't around, was when I'd go back home to visit my friends and family. I'd spend the day with my family, and then meet some HS friends at the local bars and we'd hang out and inevitably other old friends (both male and female) would show up and come and talk to us. We'd all hang out, and sometimes go to someone's house after the bar to hang some more and talk. I wouldn't put the vibe out there that I was looking to hook up

 

but the very fact you are at a bar, hanging with single women, going to some after hours after closing down the bars sends the vibe out. not saying that bars are solely for hookups, but nobody would go to them if only members of the same sex where there. Like you said, you like the attention, this is why you and your single friends go to bars.

 

 

I think I put the opposite out there. It was very obvious and known that I am married, so I wouldn't think men would go there.

 

but you said yourself, you like the attention, therefore you aren't going to really try to discourage getting it. sure you may mention you are married, but your behavior enjoying the attention tells the men differently.

[SadDazedConfused]

When I generally go out with my friends, it is in a group of anywhere from 4-8 of us. Of those people, maybe 1 or 2 in the group are single, the rest of us are married and like to go out and have a good time. I'd prefer to go to quieter spot, because my main thing I like to do when we are out, is talk to my friends and maybe do some people watching. I don't allow men to buy me drinks, and when they do come to our table, I don't engage them, I generally want them to go away.

 

We like to go out, have a few drinks and have a good time. Men do it all the time with their friends, just because we are women, doesn't mean we can't. Why can't women go out and have a beer together, just like men do? It's not our fault that men come and talk to us. I don't invite it and I certainly don't play it up and lead them on.

 

When I go back home, the guys I am with, are generally people I have known since high school or before. The idea is that we are there to catch up and hang out, not hook up. If they get drunk and amorous and want more than that, I can't help that. I am not looking for them to want to kiss me or sleep with me, simply to socialize and have a fun time catching up.

[What_Next]

SAC I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect of went on. Your posts are almost reading as if you have a chip on your shoulder. I am not trying to pick you apart, only an observation. Going out with the "girls" or the "guys" by either spouse isn't a problem by itself. Healthy boundaries and self control are another issue all together. You or your husband do not seem to posess either in my humble opinion.

 

Your asseration that men will in general back off because of a ring is also largely untrue... Not an absolute of course, just another observation...

[SadDazedConfused]

I don't mean to sound as if I have a chip on my shoulder, I just got defensive because it was made out that the only reason men or women go to bars is to pick-up people. My friends and I like live music, so we would go out and listen to the band, have some drinks, people watch, and have a good time. The single women in the group would do their own thing, and the rest of us would try to listen to the bad and talk. If men get the wrong idea and think we are there to go home with them or have them hit on us, that is their assumption and it is incorrect.