Do I confess Now?

[Memphis Raines]

We like to go out, have a few drinks and have a good time. Men do it all the time with their friends, just because we are women, doesn't mean we can't. Why can't women go out and have a beer together, just like men do?

 

I'm not saying you can't. But we are addressing your situation. If a man told this story, i'd tell him the same thing.

 

 

It's not our fault that men come and talk to us.

 

i disagree. The very fact you are out at places where people go to mingle with the opposite sex gives off those vibes, whether you mean to or not.

 

 

I don't invite it and I certainly don't play it up and lead them on.

 

 

but you already admitted to liking the attention, and the places you go are condusive for that attention. and you may not directly invite it, but given your own posts, you aren't really discouraging it either. because you enjoyed it and did step over the line.

 

 

When I go back home, the guys I am with, are generally people I have known since high school or before. The idea is that we are there to catch up and hang out, not hook up.

 

but again, you admitted to liking this attention and DID, even if very briefly, "hook up".

 

 

If they get drunk and amorous and want more than that, I can't help that.

 

but one DID get more than that.

[Memphis Raines]

I don't mean to sound as if I have a chip on my shoulder, I just got defensive because it was made out that the only reason men or women go to bars is to pick-up people.

 

 

not the only reason, but one of the biggest reasons.

 

 

My friends and I like live music, so we would go out and listen to the band, have some drinks, people watch, and have a good time. The single women in the group would do their own thing, and the rest of us would try to listen to the bad and talk. If men get the wrong idea and think we are there to go home with them or have them hit on us, that is their assumption and it is incorrect.

 

if that assumption is incorrect, then why did you say you like the attention and why did you kiss another guy, or in your words, make out?

 

and you did try to say that its to hang out with people you went to school with. well, you did say that one of the guys you went to school with you had sex with. thats a bit more than just hanging out

Edited March 31, 2011 by Memphis Raines

[SadDazedConfused]

Well we had another session with the marriage counselor, and it went okay. He is really hurt and having a hard time moving forward and trusting me. There have been some more situations that he has brought up from the past, that he questioned at the time, but never brought up to me. Nothing really happened during those times, but he doesn't believe me. I told him that I swear that nothing happened, and he says that I told him just that a number of times in the past and recently, and admittedly was lying, so why should he believe me? He feels like he was stupid and naive to believe me before, so why now should he believe what I am saying is the truth.

 

The two occasions he brought up, were admittedly situations that I should have acted differently. Nothing happened, but it could very well have. He says that I acted in a way that was inappropriate, because I would have not acted as I did if he was there. He's right. At the time though, I admit that I didn't feel that I was being inappropriate, so I really need to look more closely at the situations that I put myself in.

 

Assuming we do push forward, we will have to be very clear what the groundrules are and what is not appropriate.

[WorldIsYours]

Well we had another session with the marriage counselor, and it went okay. He is really hurt and having a hard time moving forward and trusting me. There have been some more situations that he has brought up from the past, that he questioned at the time, but never brought up to me. Nothing really happened during those times, but he doesn't believe me. I told him that I swear that nothing happened, and he says that I told him just that a number of times in the past and recently, and admittedly was lying, so why should he believe me? He feels like he was stupid and naive to believe me before, so why now should he believe what I am saying is the truth.

 

The two occasions he brought up, were admittedly situations that I should have acted differently. Nothing happened, but it could very well have. He says that I acted in a way that was inappropriate, because I would have not acted as I did if he was there. He's right. At the time though, I admit that I didn't feel that I was being inappropriate, so I really need to look more closely at the situations that I put myself in.

 

Assuming we do push forward, we will have to be very clear what the groundrules are and what is not appropriate.

 

He needs to know he's not innocent either.

[SadDazedConfused]

He knows he's not innocent. He has fully disclosed to me everything that he did, whatever details I wanted to know. He has apologized and given me the right to be as angry as I need to be with him for what he has done. My being able to forgive him and move on is all well and good, but it's his being able to do that, that is the sticking point. I understand that his feelings and ease in getting past our indiscretions are not the same as mine. Everyone is different and I am trying to be patient and hope he can forgive what I did to him and he can move forward to building a new relationship.

[What_Next]

I'd suggest that you not expect any miracles right away. You are in the VERY VERY early stages. It's good that it appears that you BOTH are starting to open up, in so far as apologizing for your actions. You will BOTH have to own those actions and atone for them. Now of course you can never change the past, but you can use that experience to change the present and the future.

 

Trust, well, umm, considering what you BOTH have done, then that is simply out the window. There is no trust, it's gone. Forget it for now. Don't worry that he doesn't trust you and and you don't trust him. That's normal. You cannot will it back into existence. It'll take an awful long time to get any degree of trust.

 

Keep going with opening up, if either of you wants details, then ask and for GOD'S SAKES be honest. It'll p__s you off something fierce if you are indeed being 100% honest and he says he doesn't believe you, but realize what you have done to destroy his trust. I know I believed virtually NOTHING whatsoever that my wife told me post D-day for a long long time. In fact there are still massive trust issues. For reference after my d-day I went out and had a revenge affair right in her face. Therefore our trust is also destroyed on both sides.

 

Small steps is all you can ask for at this point. If anger comes (and it will) learn to deal with it, not supress it, but deal with it.

[Memphis Raines]

Assuming we do push forward, we will have to be very clear what the groundrules are and what is not appropriate.

 

sounds like a good idea.

 

maybe one of the groundrules is, no going out to bars or clubs without each other.

[SoulStorm]

The two occasions he brought up, were admittedly situations that I should have acted differently. Nothing happened, but it could very well have. He says that I acted in a way that was inappropriate, because I would have not acted as I did if he was there. He's right. At the time though, I admit that I didn't feel that I was being inappropriate, so I really need to look more closely at the situations that I put myself in.

 

 

This is why I said you have a problem with boundaries.

You say you thought it wasn't inappropriate, yet at the same time you say something could have happened. To me this yells out..I have a problem with boundaries.

[SadDazedConfused]

I am seeing an IC as well as the MC to try to work on my intimacy issues. I also have a long history (pre and post-marriage) of seeking attention from men to try to validate myself. I know that needs to change, or at least to seek that validation from my husband and not other men. I know that over the course of my marriage, that I have not been able to completely give myself to my husband. I have held back because of lacking the trust that my husband will love me for who I am, and what I have done. I have feared intimacy because I didn't know if he'd truly be able to accept what I had done prior to us getting married. Who I used to be. I felt like I wasn't worthy of him.

[SoulStorm]

I am seeing an IC as well as the MC to try to work on my intimacy issues. I also have a long history (pre and post-marriage) of seeking attention from men to try to validate myself. I know that needs to change, or at least to seek that validation from my husband and not other men. I know that over the course of my marriage, that I have not been able to completely give myself to my husband. I have held back because of lacking the trust that my husband will love me for who I am, and what I have done. I have feared intimacy because I didn't know if he'd truly be able to accept what I had done prior to us getting married. Who I used to be. I felt like I wasn't worthy of him.

Did you have both father and mother and was your father attentive positively to you?

From your response, it appears you were a little wild and had a lot of male companionship in your early years.

Edited April 4, 2011 by SoulStorm

[SadDazedConfused]

My parents were and are still together, but their relationship was/is far from ideal. There was very little intimacy, and they rarely showed affection to one another. My dad would attempt to be affectionate with my mom, and she would bat him away or give him an elbow to the ribs. My dad is an alcoholic, and I found out later on that he had an affair with a woman when I was in elementary school. I blocked out abuse that I suffered as a little girl via a family member until I was in college, and I believe that did lead to some promisicuity issues I had in my late teens that I didn't know were tied to that until I remembered the abuse. I did go to counseling for about 6 months or so, after I recalled the abuse, and thought I had properly dealt with the issues, but in hindsight, I don't think I did.

[SoulStorm]

My parents were and are still together, but their relationship was/is far from ideal. There was very little intimacy, and they rarely showed affection to one another. My dad would attempt to be affectionate with my mom, and she would bat him away or give him an elbow to the ribs. My dad is an alcoholic, and I found out later on that he had an affair with a woman when I was in elementary school. I blocked out abuse that I suffered as a little girl via a family member until I was in college, and I believe that did lead to some promisicuity issues I had in my late teens that I didn't know were tied to that until I remembered the abuse. I did go to counseling for about 6 months or so, after I recalled the abuse, and thought I had properly dealt with the issues, but in hindsight, I don't think I did.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I can see why you have trouble with boundaries..even recently. However it seems your eyes are opening because you stand to lose a lot. You have been seeking affection that you should have gotten positively from your parents. It appears they had their own issues and you were robbed of that needed affection..so it came about in the wrong way because you were abused by a family member. It was wrong..very wrong..but it gave you a feeling of being close to a person in your conscience and that is what you sought from other men subconciously in your teen years.

 

Which also led to you not seeing where the line should be drawn between appropriate and inappropriate with men. Especially when alcohol is included..further lowering your inhibitions.

[SadDazedConfused]

I am working on myself in IC, and I hope to really work out all of my issues. My husband seems to bounce back and forth between seeming to want to work things out, to questioning if he does or not. He will have a good day and we will seem to be working toward him moving home, and then the next day, he'll revert back to being angry or questioning why he'd want to move back. He keeps asking questions about my motives and what would I have done if...or why didn't I do this?

 

He said last night that we need to learn from our past. I agreed. He said one of the things he has learned is that when I am in a tight spot, that I will lie no matter what to protect myself. That as he questions me about these other incidents, that he doesn't believe me when I tell him that I swear nothing happened. That I have told him that in the past, and his gut told him otherwise, and his gut is telling him otherwise now. He still doesn't believe me that the one night there were pictures of me having taken my wedding ring off on a night out at the bar, that it was innocent. That I don't honestly remember why I took it off, but it must have been to put lotion on my hands, and just forgot to put it back on. Little things like that, he makes into a big issue.

 

He says that right now, he doesn't think he can make a long term commitment to working on things and to moving back home. He doesn't believe that he can ever get over the infidelity. That just because I can, doesn't mean that he can. He keeps asking me how I can want to move forward, knowing what he has done. I told him that I don't honestly know if I can, but I at least want to try.

[Memphis Raines]

He says that right now, he doesn't think he can make a long term commitment to working on things and to moving back home. He doesn't believe that he can ever get over the infidelity. That just because I can, doesn't mean that he can. He keeps asking me how I can want to move forward, knowing what he has done. I told him that I don't honestly know if I can, but I at least want to try.

 

well women I do believe process things differently.

 

As a man, and this is my opinion of how most men, not all, how we would process a betrayal and why he is a ping pong ball on this. now this is going to be graphic, but its exactly what I believe most men have running through their minds.

 

He sits there and imagines what happened. He is pulling up in his head images of the other man's, as delicately as I can put it, private part sliding in and out of you.

 

he is imagining you on top of him riding up and down and the pleasure you are feeling. He is imagining the orgasms, he is imagining blowjobs, he is imagining things you probably did with OM that you don't, rarely, or don't care to do with him.

 

This is why he is back and forth. The images are just too powerful. Not sure what can be done about that, but you need to know, these are the things that are running through his head. He is watching a porn movie in his head starring you and the OM.

[SadDazedConfused]

I visualize him with the other women too. I asked for details, and honestly wish I hadn't heard some of them. The idea of his hands on them and theirs on him, makes me sick. Listening to him talk about getting her off, sends shivers up my spine. Still though, I think I can get past it and repair things if we just try.

 

He said that he can't just package all of this up and put it in a box that he can stow away in the attic, that things will always remind him of what happened.

[ComputerJock]

[sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]Memphis Raines[/COLOR][/sIZE] states the images he has of you pleasureing another man will bew in his mind for years and decades to come. Sometime he will look at you that says her hates you and you will know he seeing you in the arms of another man again. That's why men have a hard time and sometimes impossible time to forget and never forgive. The rocky road is only starting and few survive the trip in a marriage. Maybe you should call it quits and go on your way with the knowlege of what you both are capable.

[ComputerJock]

Sorry for the mis-spellings, but writing this even after years gone bye, images still cross my mind and tear at my heart.

[SadDazedConfused]

Well my husband and I have continued attending MC once a week. Things have gotten better between us, there is less anger and hurt and more of an effort and hope of working through this. There are good days and bad days, about 60/40. We are trying to work through the intimacy issues, trying to spend more quality time together, and working on the love and passion toward each other.

 

My husband admits that he can see that I am trying, and I can see that he is trying as well. He admits though, that he has a hard time ever thinking that he won't feel anger and hurt whenever he thinks of the infidelity. I told him that I have read up on the subject, and the object of things isn't to forget what happened or block it out, but to deal with it and hopefully eventually you will not feel the pain when the memories do come up. Once you get over the terrible feelings, you will be able to move past the anger and sadness that you feel now. He doesn't think he will ever feel that way, and questions how I think I will be able to. He spoke with our counselor about it, and she referred him to the book, "My Husband's Affair Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to My Marriage". He replied to that, that he can't imagine ever being able to say that. The fact that our other problems came up and are being dealt with, is a good thing, but how can finding out that your partner cheated on you multiple times possibly be a good thing? He likened it to his father dying, and when that happens, it will make him have to grow and adapt, but those benefits would never make him look at it as a good experience that he benefits from.

 

He also asked me how I would feel and if I could get past it, if he were to cheat on me right now. AFTER I have found out about him cheating, and AFTER he has seen how much it has hurt me. It's essentially what happened to him from what I did. I cheated on him a few weeks after he found out about my first affair, and while we were in counseling. I told him I don't know how I would deal with it, that it would be very difficult.

 

He has committed to trying to make this work for the next 3 months. We are continuing MC every other week, and I am doing IC in between to work on my own issues that I have from my childhood and adolescence. He said he will try to make things work, but his biggest roadblock is getting over the infidelity.

[SadDazedConfused]

Updated:

 

Things are actually much better for me and my husband. If you would have told me two months ago that we'd be where we are, I would have never believed you. We are continuing with MC twice a month, and working through things on our own in between. Our communication is much better than it ever has been. We are both trying to move past the infidelity and to rebuild the trust between us.

 

We still have our tough days, but they are much more seldom than they were in the past. We are both trying to get to a place where we can box up the cheating and put it on the shelf and move forward. To not get stuck dwelling in the sadness and anger. We have both been 100% honest with each other (at least I think) as far as details and events, so everything is out on the table and there are no secrets.

 

Taking it day by day, but things seem to continue to get better, and our relationship continues to grow stronger.

[ShatteredReality]

Great to hear!! I'll bet this second time around, once you wade through the muck (and it takes time and energy to do it) you guys will have a great marriage and will appreciate eachother more....