what's the point really?

[2sure]

I really think some of the "repeat, non remorseful other women" just want to see women go through the same pain as them and that s why they cheer on the affair. It's quite sad.

 

I agree. I would find it easy enough to ignore them...but I care about the women who come here. It concerns me that because manyare new...they will not recognize those that would just like to see them make mistakes or get hurt needlessly. I also think that some here actually validate thier own lack of self worth by encouraging others to join them.

[herenow]

IMO, asking people to "temper" emotion is a dis-service to anyone who really comes here for support.

 

I have read lots of stuff from OW/OM, BW/BH and some who have no experience with infidelity at all. Some posts have been so heartbreaking it's a wonder anyone ever gets involved in an affair. Some are happy with how their situation turned out, others not so much.

 

No matter what the post, I feel it's a valuable addition to the forum. I have been called names, a liar, told I'm miserable, etc. Par for the course. I came here by choice and I stayed because I feel I can contribute based on my own experience.

 

I post on threads like this one because I don't want LS to change. I feel it's good just the way it is. Real life!

 

Had I come here only to find hugs and sympathy, my time would have been wasted. I wanted a view from the other side, and I got it. Like it or not, LS does what it exists for. Please don't try to change it.

[mzdolphin]

Misery loves company.

 

I've been on both sides: BS and OW. Never saw myself in either role. Learned from both experiences. Glad to be in neither situation. Unless you are personally attacked, I don't see the point in attacking people.

[Lorelei_Lane]

I've been on both sides: BS and OW. Never saw myself in either role. Learned from both experiences. Glad to be in neither situation. Unless you are personally attacked, I don't see the point in attacking people.

 

I wasn't attacking anyone, stating what I've experienced time and time again, the age old saying is true; Misery DOES love company.

 

I've seen on other forums, in real life situations and on this forum in lurking for as long as I have people that attack and try to bring down other people.

 

What I said was not mean, and was not attacking anyone specifically. Just stated the cold hard truth, just because it doesn't sound all rosy doesn't mean it's not true. If you go back and read my post, I quoted something someone said and used a saying to pretty much say the same thing. How you get I was being mean out of that, I'm not even sure.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Lorelei_Lane

[findingnemo]

This particular forum has become such a hotbed for (virtual) fighting. Us vs. them. Is there really a point? Or is it just a sport?

 

It all seems to me like a waste of valuable energy.

 

Us vs. them... My observations below:

 

1. There is generally a tendency to follow the OP's particular story and post addressing his/her details.

 

2. Sometimes APs get real defensive. This is supposed to be the support forum for OMs/OWs for one thing. First time posters come here in distress (I did, I still am) and pour out their hearts. It takes only one snide remark and any number of OW/OM will immediately react. I expect it will keep happening. I haven't reacted to posts I don't like yet but one day I will. Knowing first hand what it takes for someone to search for, find and join this board, and then post an intimate and painful story, I get peeved when someone takes a shot at them for amusement:mad:. OMs and OWs are human beings with feelings and heckling one who is in pain will automatically elicit defenders of the underdog no matter whether they are "other" or not.

 

3. BS' also get defensive and reactive here. In one of my first posts I asked what BS' were doing on this forum. I didn't mean them ill, I just thought it was counter-productive for them. I now appreciate them being here:). The minute an OW seems happy that she has got her man, some BS' go on a "deflation" campaign. If an OW repeats (smugly) something nasty that the WS told her about BS, all hell breaks loose.

 

4. Sometimes fOWs who are in LTRs will naturally object to much of the advice given here. Because most APs are in a bind, the advice tends towards NC and the like (SG listed them already). None of this applies to OWs who are now M to the fMM or in LTRs. It must be irritating for them when early in an A or potential A, most of the posts disregard the possibility that it may be true love. Of course they'll object. They are living proof that some As wn up as ...

 

The thing is that all opinions matter, even those that we don't like. There'll always be some disagreement over something as contentious as As. Insulting or offending posts trigger anger but in an effort to "correct" the offender, the line between protecting and censoring is blurred. Is there a point? Yes, there is. I can openly say what I feel and receive constructive criticism, advice and support here. Some things may be tough to hear but they are true. That reminds me...I better go deal with some harsh realities on my thread:sick:.

[WorldIsYours]

What's the point of even creating this whole thread? Someone who starts threads like this does it for one purpose: To start stuff.

[bentnotbroken]

I think it's helpful to get answers from both/all perspectives.....I haven't posted much, but I've been reading along since 2009.

 

I do not find the quick one line statements such as "just get a divorce", "leave him/her" to be helpful at all...they are actually a waste of time...

 

I hope that BentNotBroken doesn't mind me saying this, but I've watched her posts evolve from those of an angry BS (rightfully so) into an extremely helpful BS that is able to give insight into an affair from a BS’s perspective....her posts are fair and do not attack (so-to-speak).

 

When I read a post that is filled with anger and bitterness, the point is lost on me....

 

:)I appreciate the compliment, but I wasn't angry then and I am not angry now. My disgust level is about the same or a little more becaue in the years since I have been here...the same bomb gets tossed into others lives and with the same excuses used for tossing it. Again, thank you for the compliment.

[BB07]

What's the point of even creating this whole thread? Someone who starts threads like this does it for one purpose: To start stuff.

 

One could ask you what is the point of your one liners and your need to keep driving your point over and over again?

 

Some posting styles negate any possible good points that could be made.

 

My 2 cents.....

[26pointblue]

for what it's worth, I like to read the threads in this forum because many of them are very interesting. While I may not agree with some of what is being said, it is also interesting to read the perspectives of others.

 

I agree. If people could post their opinions, perspective, advice, etc., in a mature & helpful way, it creates meaningful dialogue, no matter which 'side' someone is on.

[Moanin]

:)I appreciate the compliment, but I wasn't angry then and I am not angry now. My disgust level is about the same or a little more becaue in the years since I have been here...the same bomb gets tossed into others lives and with the same excuses used for tossing it. Again, thank you for the compliment.

 

I understand (the bolded statement)....

 

And you're welcome....my words are sincere

[whichwayisup]

I went and had a look at some other OW forums on the Net, LS is TAME compared to them. Sure, various members on here have squabbles and set eachother off and there's a handful of sock puppets who "drop in, drop the bomb" then they leave, but the majority of posters here are genuine and do want to help. Both OW/OM and BS, MM/MW..And some also are neither, they just happen to wander into this section.

 

Harsh and respectful advice is much different than rude and mean advice. Sometimes what's meant to be harsh gets read as rude -- All depends on the person reading and their frame of mind. We ALL know what rude and mean advice/words are, it's extreme..I'm talking about giving someone a reality check that could help them..Nothing wrong with that as long as it's respectful.

 

The side bickering between various regular members honestly is what makes this place less desireable (desirable? spelling? Anyone? lol) and (just my 2 cents) is why so much crap happens around here. not the newbies who join and post, get advice, it's the 'pick apart someone else's post because I disagree with how and what you said' crap that goes on. I'm not innocent of this, at times I've done that, though I am making an effort not to do that anymore, even if I disagree with the advice given, it isn't my place to try to persuade or tell the original poster to not take that advice.

[joey66]

What's the point of even creating this whole thread? Someone who starts threads like this does it for one purpose: To start stuff.

 

I wrote before that I have always tried to be respectful and that I asked an honest question. I stand by those statements. I challenge anyone to find an instance in which I tried to start something or in which I disrespected another poster, however I feel about their point of view.

 

Suppose, just for an instant, that we accept that it is the "other guy/girl" who is the trouble maker. Why engage him/her? What is to be gained from it? Even if you are 100% right and he/she is 100% wrong, what could possibly come from the vitriol? I still do not understand.

 

And frankly, I do not feel that I personally have done anything that warrants attack.

[WorldIsYours]

One could ask you what is the point of your one liners and your need to keep driving your point over and over again?

 

The point of my "consistent one liners" is to post on a public forum like you and many others do. To post facts and opinions.

 

Some posting styles negate any possible good points that could be made.

 

Posting styles? You really that technical? You're going into meaningless semantics. I find it laughable that you're all on my tip because I tell the cold truth about infidelity. But then again you're not the first to do it, nor will you be the last.

 

My 2 cents.....

 

Ahh keep the change ma'am.

[NoIDidn't]

4. Sometimes fOWs who are in LTRs will naturally object to much of the advice given here. Because most APs are in a bind, the advice tends towards NC and the like (SG listed them already). None of this applies to OWs who are now M to the fMM or in LTRs. It must be irritating for them when early in an A or potential A, most of the posts disregard the possibility that it may be true love. Of course they'll object. They are living proof that some As wn up as ...

 

I find this one interesting because I don't see the point of former OWs coming here looking for advice on affairs as they are no longer in one. And them being "living proof" that some As wind up as marriages is no reason for them to go ballistic on someone else's advice to a thread, IMO.

 

Where is the #5 for former OWs that are no longer in As and their affair didn't turn into the LTR? Not to dredge up old hurts, but it seems that this kind of advice isn't wanted yet the OWs that aren't OWs at all anymore because they are in legitimate Rs with the fMM, their advice is wanted because its "proof" of something???

 

Not including former OWs shows a "house divided", IMO. Some advice wanted more than others. Some advice appears to be undervalued (the list SG made is often recited by former OW as well) and made to seem like no one wants to hear it.

 

The US vs ThEM seems to be Realism vs Wishful Thinking.

[findingnemo]

I find this one interesting because I don't see the point of former OWs coming here looking for advice on affairs as they are no longer in one. And them being "living proof" that some As wind up as marriages is no reason for them to go ballistic on someone else's advice to a thread' date=' IMO.[/u']

 

Where is the #5 for former OWs that are no longer in As and their affair didn't turn into the LTR? Not to dredge up old hurts, but it seems that this kind of advice isn't wanted yet the OWs that aren't OWs at all anymore because they are in legitimate Rs with the fMM, their advice is wanted because its "proof" of something???

 

Not including former OWs shows a "house divided", IMO. Some advice wanted more than others. Some advice appears to be undervalued (the list SG made is often recited by former OW as well) and made to seem like no one wants to hear it.

 

The US vs ThEM seems to be Realism vs Wishful Thinking.

 

NID,

 

I admit that there is a 5th category and I forgot about it not because I disregard it but because I was posting while half asleep. I'm an fOW (or am I an OW in an EA, or...shucks, forget it:confused:) who thinks that nobody should agree to an A and that one should demand as much, if not more, than they would from a normal R. So if I react a certain way and insist that that As are bad, bad, bad news for one's self-esteem, it'd based on my experience and is fine.

 

The point I'm making is that there are different categories which are determined by individual experience of As. Because the outcomes, sequence of events, reasons and circumstances of As are so different, there is bound to be disagreement on this forum. To make matters worse no matter the label one uses, As are a contentious subject and will elicit strong reactions for, against or...whatever. There'll always be someone disagreeing with any given position. This house was divided from its conception. It was designed with different rooms for different purposes.

 

What most of us are saying is that we are human beings who can apply some thought to each situation. We shouldn't be robots conditioned by our individual experiences to the point that we fail to see differences where they exist and respond the same way every time. Reminds me of Pavlov's dogs (no offense to anyone)...And even so, should the response be "anti" rather than "pro", a polite delivery will ensure an audience.

 

(Aside: Interestingly, the first underlined sentence in your post is NOT an opinion on whether its Us vs. Them or a stand on whether there's a point or not. (The second is..sort of). It is not an attack either because it's polite and a matter of fact - your opinion. However, it is a clear objection to having one particular category here and may (shortly) elicit a reaction from that very category. Just an observation:))

Edited March 25, 2011 by findingnemo
Typos

[Silly_Girl]

 

The US vs ThEM seems to be Realism vs Wishful Thinking.

 

Blimey! This, like something gg posted, makes me wonder if it's worth ever reading your posts... It's clear there's the Right way and the Other way and you are going to struggle to accept that someone with a view polarised to yours may have a point.

 

Which is kind of where I'm coming from.

 

My son is heavily in to debating at school, he and I have some interesting chats as a result. Being able to take on board a POV, and see how it's come about, even when it's not yours... That's how you can get your point across. That's how increased understanding (not agreement) can come about. That's how, if you are trying to increase awareness and assist others (which is what i hear), there is a chance of them listening, and heeding.

 

Otherwise you're just sounding like my dear old departed Gran: 'it's not how I see it, so it's wrong, end of conversation'. The other person then will be offended/disinterested/disengaged and what has been achieved then? Them and Us is further substantiated.

[jthorne]

I find this one interesting because I don't see the point of former OWs coming here looking for advice on affairs as they are no longer in one. And them being "living proof" that some As wind up as marriages is no reason for them to go ballistic on someone else's advice to a thread, IMO.

 

Where is the #5 for former OWs that are no longer in As and their affair didn't turn into the LTR? Not to dredge up old hurts, but it seems that this kind of advice isn't wanted yet the OWs that aren't OWs at all anymore because they are in legitimate Rs with the fMM, their advice is wanted because its "proof" of something???

 

Not including former OWs shows a "house divided", IMO. Some advice wanted more than others. Some advice appears to be undervalued (the list SG made is often recited by former OW as well) and made to seem like no one wants to hear it.

 

The US vs ThEM seems to be Realism vs Wishful Thinking.

I pretty much agree with this, but will add a twist. If one looks at the content of the numerous so-called "discussion" threads that fOW/nowW start versus the posts they make to legitimate new OW's seeking support, you will see that one far outweighs the other.

 

Considering threads like "All's Fair in Love and War," it becomes obvious to me that they are not here to provide support, but to somehow validate their own relationships.

 

I'm certainly not implying that they shouldn't post, but IMO, the constant "validate me because this is what happened in MY relationship" is no more helpful than the constant "go NC" posts.

[whathesaid]

The US vs ThEM seems to be Realism vs Wishful Thinking.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing the OP is talking about.

 

You have highlighted the fact that you discount everyone's truth and realism but your own.

 

Perhaps, friend, you view it that you are the one with a vision of realism, while in fact your views lean more to the slant of "wishful thinking."

 

When a poster says "this is a fact of my R", whether it be an affair or otherwise, and you say "NO, that is not a fact, THIS is the fact" then you are the one who is practicing wishful thinking, because you are unwilling to accept that in the poster's world what you want to be reality, and what actually is reality are diametrically opposed.

 

For example, many times a poster indicates that their married lover no longer has sexual relations with their spouse. Some people vehemently claim that they are being lied to, and that a sexual relationship with the spouse is ongoing. The facts are that in some relationships, the married AP has in fact stopped having sexual relations with their spouse. Just because you don't want it to be so, doesn't mean it ain't so.

 

And I am speaking of a general you, not necessarily you specifically.

[OWoman]

what I meant by that is I just can not imagine anyone not being happier if the person they are in love with was single when they met them. Who would want to purposely fall in love with a married person. That would be insane. I feel most people would prefer that the one they love is fully available to love them back.

 

Available is as available does. My H was always fully available to love me - even before I was available to love him back - despite having the minor inconvenience of a BS somewhere in the background.

 

(And - I would not have fallen in love with him if he was single when I'd met him, as I'd have been unlikely to consider him suitable for a liaison. So, that's one to add to your "unimaginable" list... )

[seren]

Joey, to me, the forum seems a lot more settled lately, far less in fighting and more constructive discussion from all sides. I think that those who come in with pointless one liners perhaps need to remember that this is the OW/OM site and while people may not agree with A's, to take pot shots at people who are using this part of the site for support takes away from any meaningful discussion.

 

I also think that if we (general) cannot post anything constructive or that adds to a discussion, then we (general) should simply ignore. Pain, hurt, happiness are emotions we all feel, no matter who we are, I find it distasteful for someone to kick another when they are already down, or to add to anothers obvious pain just to score points. Very often, things are said on here and the Infidelity site that would never, ever be said IRL, OK it is an anonymous forum, but hiding behind a keyboard is just cowardly.

 

I am well on the road as an XBS, so can look at things from all viewpoints and try to recognise when someone needs support or to contribute to a thread without personal attacks. Treat others as we would like to be treated, especially when it is all to easy to knock or hurt - it is often like watching someone pull the wings off dragonflies, we can all do it, but should sometimes stop and ask why. To constantly come up with the snarky or gloaty comments is a bit like that, it gets repetitive and loses impact. Off my soap box now.

[WorldIsYours]

Considering threads like "All's Fair in Love and War," it becomes obvious to me that they are not here to provide support, but to somehow validate their own relationships.

 

And they think because they're married to their cheater all is happy dandy, rosey panky.

[joey66]

Joey, to me, the forum seems a lot more settled lately, far less in fighting and more constructive discussion from all sides. I think that those who come in with pointless one liners perhaps need to remember that this is the OW/OM site and while people may not agree with A's, to take pot shots at people who are using this part of the site for support takes away from any meaningful discussion.

 

I also think that if we (general) cannot post anything constructive or that adds to a discussion, then we (general) should simply ignore. Pain, hurt, happiness are emotions we all feel, no matter who we are, I find it distasteful for someone to kick another when they are already down, or to add to anothers obvious pain just to score points. Very often, things are said on here and the Infidelity site that would never, ever be said IRL, OK it is an anonymous forum, but hiding behind a keyboard is just cowardly.

 

I am well on the road as an XBS, so can look at things from all viewpoints and try to recognise when someone needs support or to contribute to a thread without personal attacks. Treat others as we would like to be treated, especially when it is all to easy to knock or hurt - it is often like watching someone pull the wings off dragonflies, we can all do it, but should sometimes stop and ask why. To constantly come up with the snarky or gloaty comments is a bit like that, it gets repetitive and loses impact. Off my soap box now.

 

Is that the voice of reason I hear? It's hard to recognize because I hear it so infrequently.

 

Love this post, though I'm not sure I agree that things are more settled now. I have almost given up on LS.

[donnamaybe]

If my opinion is that a MM/MW is lying when they tell their AP they aren't sleeping with their spouse, that is my right. No one can tell someone else what to think and, in turn, what to say or not say.

[tami-chan]

This is exactly the kind of thing the OP is talking about.

 

You have highlighted the fact that you discount everyone's truth and realism but your own.

 

Perhaps, friend, you view it that you are the one with a vision of realism, while in fact your views lean more to the slant of "wishful thinking."

 

When a poster says "this is a fact of my R", whether it be an affair or otherwise, and you say "NO, that is not a fact, THIS is the fact" then you are the one who is practicing wishful thinking, because you are unwilling to accept that in the poster's world what you want to be reality, and what actually is reality are diametrically opposed.

 

.

 

 

I agree with the bolded part. People think that just because they have a "right" to their opinion, then they have a right to change/discredit the poster's story and all in the guise of "trying to help".

[tami-chan]

And they think because they're married to their cheater all is happy dandy, rosey panky.

 

Actually no, all relationships-no matter how you arrived at that point-have issues and constant work is needed. If you think that people who end up marrying their affair partner think that-you are wrong. I believe you are expressing what you fear most-that they could actually be "happy dandy, rosey panky"(that would just be too horrible, wouldn't it?)....you really need to just "live and let live".