And now she is depressed...

[giotto]

So, she wouldn't have all the pressures of a failing relationship. I'm not talking about moving out, just a temporary separation. This way she would have time to recover without feeling that "she has to" and the pressures of sex would disappear too... remember: we don't really have an "emotional" bond anymore... actually, we don't have much of a relationship left. What's the point of being in a half marriage? Please don't think I'm trying to escape my responsibilities, but if our marriage is so bad that she got depressed, surely if we remove the marriage she will get better more quickly? Any thoughts?

[LittleTiger]

It's entirely your decision Giotto and I'm sure many will tell you to get out and stay out. However, I'd be fairly certain that a marital separation will makes things worse for your wife not better. As I'm sure you already know, separation and divorce are two of the most stressful and traumatic events that anyone can go through and the S&D section of LS is a testament to how much harder it is for the person who has it forced upon them.

 

You've said she has other 'issues' which brought on the depression and she's been on anti-Ds for a long time, which are apparently no longer working. If she needs new anti-Ds because the chemical imbalance (or whatever it is) has returned, then marital separation is not the answer - at least not for her. From everything you've said it doesn't sound as though your 'bad marriage' was the reason she got depressed in the first place. You're in a better position to judge of course, but from the way I see it, it seems that her depression needs to get better first and then the marriage will improve.

 

That said, you aren't responsible for your wife and if you think separation would be the best thing then you should do what you believe is right. Provided you can 'hand on heart' say that you have done everything in your power to fix your marriage then you can walk away with a clear conscience.

Edited March 28, 2011 by LittleTiger

[giotto]

So, she wouldn't have all the pressures of a failing relationship. I'm not talking about moving out, just a temporary separation. This way she would have time to recover without feeling that "she has to" and the pressures of sex would disappear too... remember: we don't really have an "emotional" bond anymore... actually, we don't have much of a relationship left. What's the point of being in a half marriage? Please don't think I'm trying to escape my responsibilities, but if our marriage is so bad that she got depressed, surely if we remove the marriage she will get better more quickly? Any thoughts?

 

I know... I'm trying to figure out the best course of action. I'm wondering if sex might be a root cause, or not. In the past she's said it was and therefore I'm not entirely convinced when she says it's not now. Lightening the "burden" might an answer, but she probably needs to be with me rather than without me at the moment. Having said that, we would still be married and living under the same roof... not much would change.

[dreamingoftigers]

Having a break may seriously undermine her security and make things worse.

[LittleTiger]

I know... I'm trying to figure out the best course of action. I'm wondering if sex might be a root cause, or not. In the past she's said it was and therefore I'm not entirely convinced when she says it's not now. Lightening the "burden" might an answer, but she probably needs to be with me rather than without me at the moment. Having said that, we would still be married and living under the same roof... not much would change.

 

Except that, on top of everything else, you will also have rejected her. Trust me, feeling rejected is no cure for depression.

 

If you believe sex may be the root cause, then take the sex out of the equation not the marriage (ok, I see the flaw in that but you understand what I'm saying). I think you're right that she needs to be with you rather than without you.

 

If not much would change - what would change? How do you imagine it would be different/better for either of you?

[giotto]

Except that, on top of everything else, you will also have rejected her. Trust me, feeling rejected is no cure for depression.

 

If you believe sex may be the root cause, then take the sex out of the equation not the marriage (ok, I see the flaw in that but you understand what I'm saying). I think you're right that she needs to be with you rather than without you.

 

If not much would change - what would change? How do you imagine it would be different/better for either of you?

 

you are probably right... bad idea!

[LittleTiger]

you are probably right... bad idea!

 

Giotto, I'm just one person and my opinion is undoubtedly biased by my own experience of both depression and separation/divorce.

 

If you've reached the end of the road then be honest about it - to yourself if nobody else. If you've had enough and believe you can do no more then maybe it is time to call it a day.......but don't try to kid yourself that a 'separation' would be for your wife's benefit.

[xxoo]

If you've reached the end of the road then be honest about it - to yourself if nobody else. If you've had enough and believe you can do no more then maybe it is time to call it a day.......but don't try to kid yourself that a 'separation' would be for your wife's benefit.

 

I agree, Giotto.

 

Don't martyr yourself. If you need to get out, get out.

 

But don't leave at this point because you think it will help your wife. It probably will make this worse for her in the short term.

[soserious1]

Giotto, I'm just one person and my opinion is undoubtedly biased by my own experience of both depression and separation/divorce.

 

If you've reached the end of the road then be honest about it - to yourself if nobody else. If you've had enough and believe you can do no more then maybe it is time to call it a day.......but don't try to kid yourself that a 'separation' would be for your wife's benefit.

 

Yeah if Giotto REALLY cared about his wife, if he REALLY understood how depression worked, he'd convert his basement to a little Monk's cell, he could sleep there, coming out only to cook,clean, caretake for kids and of course to continue to go to his job 7 days a week so he can keep handing his wife his wages.

 

 

Marriage is such a joke, I'm sorry I wasted years of my life being a faithful wife & it makes me even sadder to see guys like Giotto wasting their lives in sexless,loveless marriages... nobody seems to care about the level of depression suffered by those of us in sexless marriages though, somehow our needs or the risks to our mental health seem to count for nothing in these discussions.

Edited March 29, 2011 by soserious1

[NoIDidn't]

Yeah if Giotto REALLY cared about his wife, if he REALLY understood how depression worked, he'd convert his basement to a little Monk's cell, he could sleep there, coming out only to cook,clean, caretake for kids and of course to continue to go to his job 7 days a week so he can keep handing his wife his wages.

 

 

Marriage is such a joke, I'm sorry I wasted years of my life being a faithful wife & it makes me even sadder to see guys like Giotto wasting their lives in sexless,loveless marriages... nobody seems to care about the level of depression suffered by those of us in sexless marriages though, somehow our needs or the risks to our mental health seem to count for nothing in these discussions.

 

Well, what do you think would happen if he left his W? Do you think he'd suddenly no longer have those same responsibilities? Is he not going to seek custody of the children and leave them with a mother that's unable to help them?

 

I can read the frustration in his situation, but I don't think leaving at this point is the answer. Yelling at her to get off her butt, isn't going to help. Reminding her that people need her well, isn't going to help. Even getting her to the doctor may not help.

 

Depressed people often try everything they can to get well, only to continue to suffer. She's taking anti-depressants. She's reading a book. Doctors aren't that reliable for the depressed as they often overlook many things they could be doing to help. Maybe she should up her vitamin d3 intake to 5000 a day for three months and see if that helps. Exercising four times a week for one hour helps as much as antiDs for those suffering mildly to moderately from depression.

 

But cynical attitudes only hurt the depressed and make them feel worse. I'm really sorry marriage didn't work out for you, and seems not to be working well for the OP, but that's no reason to be so hard on his W. Her depression keeps her from being able to show him the love and appreciation she feels. Its a very selfish illness.

 

Giotto,

 

I think the trip to the doctor might help, but so would a trip to a gym.

[giotto]

well, I think I do want out of the relationship now. There is no connection, seldom sex, no intimacy. Why should we be together? That's why I suggested a separation. I do not intend to run away. I would stay put, sticking to my responsibilities, but without the upset which comes from trying to fix an unfixable relationship. I do understand, though, that she would probably see it as rejection, especially after she reiterated that I played no part in her depression. I don't really want to make it worse.

[LittleTiger]

Yeah if Giotto REALLY cared about his wife, if he REALLY understood how depression worked, he'd convert his basement to a little Monk's cell, he could sleep there, coming out only to cook,clean, caretake for kids and of course to continue to go to his job 7 days a week so he can keep handing his wife his wages.

 

Marriage is such a joke, I'm sorry I wasted years of my life being a faithful wife & it makes me even sadder to see guys like Giotto wasting their lives in sexless,loveless marriages... nobody seems to care about the level of depression suffered by those of us in sexless marriages though, somehow our needs or the risks to our mental health seem to count for nothing in these discussions.

 

soserious1, I'm very sorry for whatever situation you experienced in your own marriage and for the loss that clearly still hurts you.

 

If you read my posts carefully you will see that I am looking at Giotto's situation from both sides and I won't encourage him to make a decision either way - that choice is his, and his alone.

 

The usual marriage vows state 'in sickness and in health' so, in theory, that means sticking by your spouse if they become depressed. However, if someone believes their own health is being severely damaged by their relationship then sometimes leaving is the only option. What I was saying, though perhaps you misunderstood, is that if he can't take it anymore then maybe it's time to leave. However, he should be very clear in his own mind why he is doing so. To leave for his own sake is one thing (and I make no judgement on his choice), to leave for his wife's sake is quite another - and in this instance misguided as she will likely get worse not better.

 

As Giotto himself said, and as NoIDidn't pointed out, if they separate and stay in the same house there will be little change other than perhaps separate bedrooms so where exactly is the benefit to either of them? I asked that question earlier but, as Giotto didn't reply to it, I'm guessing there isn't one.

 

If gaining a sex life is the ultimate goal then moving out and divorce are the only real option. Unless we're talking about agreed open marriages, ask anyone who has attempted to 'move on' whilst separated and/or still living with their spouse - it's a guaranteed road to more pain and confusion for both partners.

 

I too understand what it's like to be in a sexless marriage and Giotto has my deepest sympathy - it's either a 'Catch 22' or 'Sophie's Choice'. Unfortunately life is never fair and, in the end, we all have to play the hand we're holding - even if we dealt it ourselves.

[LittleTiger]

well, I think I do want out of the relationship now. There is no connection, seldom sex, no intimacy. Why should we be together? That's why I suggested a separation. I do not intend to run away. I would stay put, sticking to my responsibilities, but without the upset which comes from trying to fix an unfixable relationship. I do understand, though, that she would probably see it as rejection, especially after she reiterated that I played no part in her depression. I don't really want to make it worse.

 

Speaking from experience giotto (my exH and I 'separated' - twice - and continued to live together), what you're suggesting may ease the current 'tension' between you but this will be replaced by something else.

 

We both found it very, very difficult because we were in limbo. You live and share major responsibilities with someone who you used to be intimate with but is no longer your partner and, at the same time, you can't move on.

 

This doesn't seem much different from the situation you're already in so how do you believe it will benefit either of you?

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm just asking you to think carefully about your motives. Perhaps the scenario you're currently considering is not the only option you have.

Edited March 29, 2011 by LittleTiger

[giotto]

Speaking from experience giotto (my exH and I 'separated' - twice - and continued to live together), what you're suggesting may ease the current 'tension' between you but this will be replaced by something else.

 

We both found it very, very difficult because we were in limbo. You live and share major responsibilities with someone who you used to be intimate with but is no longer your partner and, at the same time, you can't move on.

 

This doesn't seem much different from the situation you're already in so how do you believe it will benefit either of you?

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm just asking you to think carefully about your motives. Perhaps the scenario you're currently considering is not the only option you have.

 

ok, what's in it for me? I'll answer the question... Not feeling "trapped" in this relationship, which has no advantages for me. It's like being a maid (guess where she is now...). I want a 100% relationship, like it used to be. This doesn't seem possible anymore. I'm quite saddened by this, because I'm the old-fashioned type and I don't want to have a half-baked relationship. So, it seems to me I'm just wasting my time.

 

When we got back together last year, I said I would be easy to live with. The reason we nearly got divorce, from her point of view, was that I became impossible to live with. But I was impossible to live with, because of our pathetic sex life. I felt rejected. And she knew this. We even went to Relate! We then came to an agreement. I would be "tolerable" and maybe then our sex life would get back on tracks. Guess what? I've done my part (it's been months), but our sex life has got worse. So, I've run out of options. There is no connection, no intimacy. We live our separate lives, really.

 

Why I don't divorce her? I've been thinking about this. First the children, I suppose, and second I couldn't stand the guilt. I was raised a catholic, after all...

 

And now she is depressed. I should be depressed!

[LittleTiger]

I understand why you want out of the relationship Giotto. What I'm asking is, very specifically, how will 'separating' and remaining in the same house benefit you? What will be different from the way things are now?

[giotto]

I understand why you want out of the relationship Giotto. What I'm asking is, very specifically, how will 'separating' and remaining in the same house benefit you? What will be different from the way things are now?

 

At least I won't get depressed about our sex life. That pressure will be off. And I won't feel all this responsibility towards her. I would still be there for her, but in a more relaxed way, because I won't be trying to make our relationship better, I won't be obsessed by it. It would be the first step towards actually moving out in the future...

[LittleTiger]

At least I won't get depressed about our sex life. That pressure will be off. And I won't feel all this responsibility towards her. I would still be there for her, but in a more relaxed way, because I won't be trying to make our relationship better, I won't be obsessed by it. It would be the first step towards actually moving out in the future...

 

OK, at least you're clear about who you're doing it for. That's good.

 

So......

 

You won't get depressed about not having a sex life?

 

You won't feel all this responsibility towards her?

 

You won't be obsessed by it?

 

What then do you expect to feel instead of the depression (yours), the responsibility and the obsession?

[giotto]

OK, at least you're clear about who you're doing it for. That's good.

 

So......

 

You won't get depressed about not having a sex life?

 

You won't feel all this responsibility towards her?

 

You won't be obsessed by it?

 

What then do you expect to feel instead of the depression (yours), the responsibility and the obsession?

 

ok, you asked about what was in it for me! I already said that I thought she would benefit for the same reasons... not feeling all the pressures of our failing relationship.

 

What would I feel instead? Relief?

[LittleTiger]

ok, you asked about what was in it for me! I already said that I thought she would benefit for the same reasons... not feeling all the pressures of our failing relationship.

 

What would I feel instead? Relief?

 

I asked what the benefit was for both of you and you seemed to have decided that there probably was none for her. So that means the benefit you've described is going to be for you. Nothing wrong with that as long as you aknowledge it up front.

 

You've had a few of us say that, if she's depressed, a separation will be more difficult for her (even if you're still in the same house), but you know your wife better than we do. So, again being very honest with yourself, how do you really think she will feel if you separate? How do you believe she will react if you even suggest a 'separation'?

[giotto]

I asked what the benefit was for both of you and you seemed to have decided that there probably was none for her. So that means the benefit you've described is going to be for you. Nothing wrong with that as long as you aknowledge it up front.

 

You've had a few of us say that, if she's depressed, a separation will be more difficult for her (even if you're still in the same house), but you know your wife better than we do. So, again being very honest with yourself, how do you really think she will feel if you separate? How do you believe she will react if you even suggest a 'separation'?

 

Do you know why I'm a bit exasperated? Because I've been thinking about a separation for months and now it won't be possible. Selfish? Maybe. But I think all these tears I've been rather un-selfish... of course I can't go now. I'll have to wait. It's not that I don't care about her, but I feel like suffocating now, because even the last way out has been blocked. And yes, I know I could go, but, as almost everyone of you has said, it's not advisable and - to tell the truth - could be dangerous.

[LittleTiger]

Do you know why I'm a bit exasperated? Because I've been thinking about a separation for months and now it won't be possible. Selfish? Maybe. But I think all these tears I've been rather un-selfish... of course I can't go now. I'll have to wait. It's not that I don't care about her, but I feel like suffocating now, because even the last way out has been blocked. And yes, I know I could go, but, as almost everyone of you has said, it's not advisable and - to tell the truth - could be dangerous.

 

I'm really not taking sides here Giotto and I don't believe you're selfish. I'm just trying to help you see things from all angles so you don't make any decision blindly and later regret it.

 

If your reason for 'separating' is to rid yourself of depression, responsibility and obsession and replace those feelings with relief, I think you've probably worked out by now that this isn't what you'll achieve.

 

You know that whatever decision you make you'll be sacrificing at least one person. As I said before 'Sophie's Choice' - I don't envy you.

[giotto]

I'm really not taking sides here Giotto and I don't believe you're selfish. I'm just trying to help you see things from all angles so you don't make any decision blindly and later regret it.

 

If your reason for 'separating' is to rid yourself of depression, responsibility and obsession and replace those feelings with relief, I think you've probably worked out by now that this isn't what you'll achieve.

 

You know that whatever decision you make you'll be sacrificing at least one person. As I said before 'Sophie's Choice' - I don't envy you.

 

It looks like that person will be me... again.

[LittleTiger]

It looks like that person will be me... again.

 

It doesn't have to be you giotto.

 

It can be your wife ....... provided you've carefully considered the consequences and you're prepared to live with them, whatever they may be.

 

You may be married to her but you are not responsible for her health and happiness. We are all responsible for ourselves as individuals.

 

If you believe you've reached the end of the line, maybe you should tell her. Maybe she will take a turn for the worse and end up in hospital - maybe that's what she needs.

 

Think of every option and possible outcome before you make a definite decision.

[giotto]

I will consider the options carefully, but it's just too risky at th moment. And I don't really want to see my wife in hospital. I also have to consider the children as well. So, selfish thoughts will have to be put aside for the moment... or so it seems...

[denise_xo]

Do you know why I'm a bit exasperated? Because I've been thinking about a separation for months and now it won't be possible. Selfish? Maybe. But I think all these tears I've been rather un-selfish... of course I can't go now. I'll have to wait. It's not that I don't care about her, but I feel like suffocating now, because even the last way out has been blocked. And yes, I know I could go, but, as almost everyone of you has said, it's not advisable and - to tell the truth - could be dangerous.

 

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here - a separation might also be the 'shock' that will make her address the situation more constructively. I've suffered from depression at regular intervals during my life and there are times when you need something external to pull you out of the negative cycle. I also don't think giotto that you should put yourself and your own needs completely to the side for her needs, it will just produce resentment and more unhappiness. The fact that you feel you're suffocating is serious, you've suffered from an unhappy marriage for a long time and it might be that you should seriously considering a separation. You can't take the full responsibility for your wife's well being at the expense of your own. Are you really sure that separating will hurt your wife more than not separating at this point? I mean that as an open rather than a rhetorical question.