denise_xo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 So, selfish thoughts will have to be put aside for the moment... or so it seems... You are not selfish for considering your own well being. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTiger Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Is there any possibility that your wife is/was aware that you've been considering separation for months? Is it possible that her depression is a reaction to that or even a means (albeit maybe unconscious) to prevent it? Just another thought that occured to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Is there any possibility that your wife is/was aware that you've been considering separation for months? Is it possible that her depression is a reaction to that or even a means (albeit maybe unconscious) to prevent it? Just another thought that occured to me. I doubt it... she is so self-centred and self-absorbed that I would be surprised. I think she thinks I'm happy, apart from the sex... it's been 3 weeks now and we are still waiting for the cold sore to heal... She is just a very selfish person... Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Are you really sure that separating will hurt your wife more than not separating at this point? I mean that as an open rather than a rhetorical question. Unfortunately, it's not just "me" and "her"... there are children involved and, at this stage, I think it would be unwise to push for a separation or even divorce. If they can't stay with "mummy", it would make it even more traumatic for them. I'm not prepared to risk this. Also, we separated before, but it didn't work out, meaning that, after things settled down and we decide to get back together, the situation reverted back to its original state after just a few weeks. I mentioned a separation, because I can't stand this situation anymore and I need some peace and quiet... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 . Are you really sure that separating will hurt your wife more than not separating at this point? I mean that as an open rather than a rhetorical question. Is there any possibility that your wife is/was aware that you've been considering separation for months? Is it possible that her depression is a reaction to that or even a means (albeit maybe unconscious) to prevent it?. These are good questions. Of course, the best person to answer them is Giotto's wife. Giotto, what is the state of the communication between you? I understand that she doesn't open up with you, but can you open up with her? Can you lay next to her and tell her your concerns for her...your concerns for yourself...and your concerns for the kids....and ask for her input? I doubt it... she is so self-centred and self-absorbed that I would be surprised. I think she thinks I'm happy, apart from the sex... it's been 3 weeks now and we are still waiting for the cold sore to heal... She is just a very selfish person... Because it is impossible to have any kind of intimacy with a cold sore, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Giotto, what is the state of the communication between you? I understand that she doesn't open up with you, but can you open up with her? Can you lay next to her and tell her your concerns for her...your concerns for yourself...and your concerns for the kids....and ask for her input? We had the "depression" discussion the other day. But I can only push to a certain extent because she is a very private person. She also takes everything very personally. So, I have to be careful not to upset her. Because it is impossible to have any kind of intimacy with a cold sore, right? Apparently... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 We had the "depression" discussion the other day. But I can only push to a certain extent because she is a very private person. She also takes everything very personally. So, I have to be careful not to upset her. I think there is something here, Giotto. How many years have you walked on eggshells around her? If you habitually back off because she gets "upset" (what does that mean? What is your fear? Is it about withheld sex?), you will effectively be manipulated by her emotions. She may intend it to be that way, or not, but that is the result. What horrible thing might happen if she gets upset? Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 What horrible thing might happen if she gets upset? That a horrible tension will be generated and it will affect the whole of the family, for days on end. I'm a very easy going person, but I'm a bit fiery. So, sometimes I get upset and kind of get a bit over the top. But I'm never offensive or violent. I just like a good row! Just get it out, have a little discussion and forget about it! Unfortunately, I've learned that this is not possible with my wife, because she would get upset and give me the silent treatment for days. And yes, with much frustration, I've been walking on eggshells all my life because the silent treatment also meant withholding sex and no intimacy. She has serious issues and I've always been the one compromising, to keep the family together. But I've never been very happy about this. I suppose you can call me a doormat. But I don't think she did that on purpose... it's just her issues. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 That a horrible tension will be generated and it will affect the whole of the family, for days on end. It is understandable that you'd want to avoid that. But at what cost? The whole family will be affected by a separation and divorce--for longer than days. Thinking of the big picture, how can it hurt to try a different approach? Have you ever sought advice on how to deal with a spouse that gives the silent treatment? That would have had me RUNNING to couples therapy (or away from the relationship, if it revealed before marriage) long ago. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 It is understandable that you'd want to avoid that. But at what cost? The whole family will be affected by a separation and divorce--for longer than days. Thinking of the big picture, how can it hurt to try a different approach? Have you ever sought advice on how to deal with a spouse that gives the silent treatment? That would have had me RUNNING to couples therapy (or away from the relationship, if it revealed before marriage) long ago. Women are notorious for the silent treatment I hate to say. Yes they will get angry, but often it is what they DON'T SAY that is at the crux of the issue. When women get really, really angry they stop talking because they think their spouse isn't listening. Take a look at Giotto and HV (me to a lesser extent).... All have a key issue, the spouse hid things from them..... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Women are notorious for the silent treatment I hate to say. Yes they will get angry, but often it is what they DON'T SAY that is at the crux of the issue. When women get really, really angry they stop talking because they think their spouse isn't listening. Take a look at Giotto and HV (me to a lesser extent).... All have a key issue, the spouse hid things from them..... Men do the silent treatment, too. I don't think it is gender specific. Which sex is more like likely to want to "talk about the relationship"? I always thought that was a common gripe about women. (I admit to having some of these tendencies ) I agree that this is a key issue your spouses share, but I disagree that it is "typical woman" behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Women are notorious for the silent treatment I hate to say. Yes they will get angry, but often it is what they DON'T SAY that is at the crux of the issue. When women get really, really angry they stop talking because they think their spouse isn't listening. Is it that she doesn't say it? Or is it that you aren't hearing each other? My H and I are pretty good at working through miscommunications, but it is AMAZING to me how I can think I am being very clear, and he doesn't understand what I'm saying at all. I'm sure he experiences the same with me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Have you ever sought advice on how to deal with a spouse that gives the silent treatment? That would have had me RUNNING to couples therapy (or away from the relationship, if it revealed before marriage) long ago. No, I haven't... bit naive, maybe. We did go to counselling, but my wife didn't like the female counsellor and we stopped going after a few sessions... I suppose the fact that I said that I would never leave, didn't help me, or us... Unfortunately, the silent treatment stems from her issues. The more silent she got, the more I tried to make peace - I hated it - and that reinforced it, I suppose. Total breakdown. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I will consider the options carefully, but it's just too risky at th moment. And I don't really want to see my wife in hospital. I also have to consider the children as well. So, selfish thoughts will have to be put aside for the moment... or so it seems... You have tunnel vision.. you say you've been walking on eggshells to avoid upsetting this mentally ill woman for years. Well if it's this bad for you, guess who else is walking on eggshells? Your 4 children! Your kids are learning that a normal marriage consists of a mother who hides in her bed with a father who scurries to cowtow and placate instead of confronting and insisting that Mom get proper treatment! If your wife enters a hospital as result of you announcing you want a divorce, there is a chance she might get the medication adjustments she so clearly needs.Your children will also get a chance to confront the both of you, to open up about how they feel, the entire family has a chance to heal and to decide to try to rebuild or to negotiate the terms of a divorce and co-parenting plan. Not forcing a change here isn't hurting just you, it's hurting the kids and also hurting your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You have tunnel vision.. you say you've been walking on eggshells to avoid upsetting this mentally ill woman for years. Well if it's this bad for you, guess who else is walking on eggshells? Your 4 children! Your kids are learning that a normal marriage consists of a mother who hides in her bed with a father who scurries to cowtow and placate instead of confronting and insisting that Mom get proper treatment! If your wife enters a hospital as result of you announcing you want a divorce, there is a chance she might get the medication adjustments she so clearly needs.Your children will also get a chance to confront the both of you, to open up about how they feel, the entire family has a chance to heal and to decide to try to rebuild or to negotiate the terms of a divorce and co-parenting plan. Not forcing a change here isn't hurting just you, it's hurting the kids and also hurting your wife. I second this. I was trying to write something similar earlier on but couldn't formulate it right and ended up deleting the post. But I think this is spot on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'm not sure... she is obviously ill and maybe I'm complaining too much. I don't believe the children will be better off without their mother. In normal circumstances, I would agree with you, but they are not normal. She was quite happy today. This is baffling, because her moods go up and down... since our last conversation, she's made an effort. I do believe it's the wrong time to take drastic action. This thread has been very helpful. I do appreciate the more extreme views, because they are correct in general, but the situation is not so black and white. I've come to the conclusion that she needs to change her meds and she need therapy. I will push for this. More radical stuff, I'm not sure of. I'll have to wait and see. You have tunnel vision.. you say you've been walking on eggshells to avoid upsetting this mentally ill woman for years. Well if it's this bad for you, guess who else is walking on eggshells? Your 4 children! Your kids are learning that a normal marriage consists of a mother who hides in her bed with a father who scurries to cowtow and placate instead of confronting and insisting that Mom get proper treatment! If your wife enters a hospital as result of you announcing you want a divorce, there is a chance she might get the medication adjustments she so clearly needs.Your children will also get a chance to confront the both of you, to open up about how they feel, the entire family has a chance to heal and to decide to try to rebuild or to negotiate the terms of a divorce and co-parenting plan. Not forcing a change here isn't hurting just you, it's hurting the kids and also hurting your wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Since my daughter's return from university, my wife has been a completely different person. Happy, happy, happy... I'm dreading the time when she will be gone again. Needless to say, she is still on the same meds. I give up! It's upsetting that she takes no notice of what I say or propose. Like when we compromised. It was supposed to be once a week... now it's 2-3 weeks again. Apparently, I'm not grumpy anymore, though... Yes, because basically I had to accept that we will never have a normal sex life. To stay, I had to emasculate myself. Pretty sad. But, I suppose, it's my choice. Thank you for listening... Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I don't believe the children will be better off without their mother. I think it's not so much an issue of the children not having a mother, but, in the longer term, having a healthier mother. I grew up with a mentally ill mother and it gave me serious issues. Very serious issues. Obviously I don't know what the atmosphere is like in your house, but don't believe that just by staying together, your children will not be affected by your wife's depression. Children are very good at tuning into their parents' moods, even if they don't talk about it or pretend that everything is OK. Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I think it's not so much an issue of the children not having a mother, but, in the longer term, having a healthier mother. I grew up with a mentally ill mother and it gave me serious issues. Very serious issues. Obviously I don't know what the atmosphere is like in your house, but don't believe that just by staying together, your children will not be affected by your wife's depression. Children are very good at tuning into their parents' moods, even if they don't talk about it or pretend that everything is OK. I suppose I'm being selfish, not being able to cope with the guilt... Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I suppose I'm being selfish, not being able to cope with the guilt... Well, based on your threads here (I've read a lot of them even though I have posted much), I don't think you have anything to be guilty for. Why would you feel guilty (genuine question)? Maybe I'm biased because I'm a child of parents who divorced when I was seven, but I don't really think that a divorce is an end all for children, as long as it's managed as amicably as possible and that children don't become a pawn in parents' rivalry (which unfortunately happened somewhat in my case). Link to post Share on other sites
Author giotto Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Why would you feel guilty (genuine question)? I don't know... I was raised a catholic... I have my issues too, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
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