Houston, We Have Contact

[TryTryAgain]

Try, but my god- "her intentions"? What "intentions" does a branch floating down the river have?

 

I was speaking of her intentions with regard to a future phone call. Last time she wanted to meet for dinner, but we spent two weeks wondering where her head was at. If she wants to meet up again, find out her intentions so as not to have a repeat of last night. If that conversation happens over the phone instead of in person, then so be it. And I agree 100% that future conversations should be centered around what 1784 wants.

 

TURN THE TABLES! You know how it feels to be on the receiving end of this ridiculousness. Let her feel it. Let her be in your position.

 

1784, I think this is a good approach.

 

But I have a question, robinseggblue...Okay, let's say he does all this "leafy" stuff, should he then reach out to her at some point either way, or is part of this the hope that this "ridiculousness" will get her to come around and ask for a reconciliation?

[robinseggblue]

.Okay, let's say he does all this "leafy" stuff, should he then reach out to her at some point either way, or is part of this the hope that this "ridiculousness" will get her to come around and ask for a reconciliation?

 

 

Well, I think that's up to him. The point is to get to that point in time, where he has a choice. He is "confused" (what he should be telling her) so as far as she knows, he could go either way, which leaves the door open for him to do whatever he likes, whenever he likes, or absolutely nothing at all, and see if she comes round. Sorta like she is doing now-see the similarity?

 

Going out now. Ruminate.

[Country_Girl]

Robinseggblue had some great advice on the previous page, you are only one month in and that's not enough time for her to feel the intensity of losing you.

 

I am 3.5 months post BU, and it took a long time for my dumper to feel anything. For the first month, he straight up told me something similar- he did everything to avoid the breakup. He dove into work and hanging out with his friends, slept a lot- he simply didn't deal with the pain, or feel any pain because he avoided it.

 

By the end of month 2, he started feeling some loss, then came the I love you's and I miss you's. But he was still confused, it's like he wanted to be with me and didn't at the same time. "Maybe some day we will end up together".

 

Month 3.5, close to 4, he is experiencing extreme guilt. It's bad, he sounds so sad in defeated. But he is still experiencing the loss, hence why he keeps breaking contact even though we agreed we shouldn't be talking for at least 6 months to a year from now.

 

Everyone experiences loss at different rates, this time line was just an example of how long it can take a dumper to go through the grieving process. It seems to hit them at a very slow rate. Based on what you described, she is confused and hasn't even dealt with the breakup yet, so my guess is that's why she doesn't even know what she wants. At this rate, I would think it could take up to another 1 or 2 months for her to start missing you.

 

I would maybe do NIC, only contact her if she contacts you. Make it seem like you are moving on.

[1784]

Wow, all great comments thus far today. I really appreciate it. It's just really nice knowing you're all here for me. It makes me feel a lot less alone. The fact that you all take the time to respond with such care is truly amazing.

 

I think the basic assessment here is that while I didn't give much away in terms of letting her know that I wanted to reconcile, I didn't do much to let her know I was moving on without her either. I mean, yeah, she knows I'm keeping busy, hanging out with friends, I started a blog, I've been active at work, etc. From what she said at dinner she seems to think I'm doing alright without her. That's a good start but I suppose it isn't enough. Because at the end of the day I was there when she needed me. It didn't take much prodding from her. I didn't make it difficult. The fact that she said "Jump" and I sorta said "How high" didn't really do me any favors. I don't think it was as extreme as all that but you get the idea.

 

I guess we all fear letting go 100% because we never want to lose that opportunity to get back together. I don't want her moving on from me, ya know? I don't want the door to be totally closed. I guess the trick is being okay with it closing. I dunno. This is the part I'm quasi confused about. Do you think the door is closed? if I had to guess I would say no. She may have not come out and said "I want to reconcile" or even hinted at it. But I'm a firm believe er in actions speaking louder than words. I think if the door was 100% closed then we would never have gone to dinner last night. I'm not trying to be optimistic. I'm trying to be accurate in my assessment. You can all tell me what you really think.

 

I'm all for turning the tables. I think I've already done that to some degree. I did go NC and it did end up with a get together. I'm not saying that I can't or shouldn't do more, of course. I'm just saying that I THINK (hope) I'm on the right road. I've done no begging or pleading or acting pathetic. I may not have scared her enough yet, though. Not let her know what it's really like to lose me. That I agree with.

 

I'm not gonna tell her I feel like a leaf, though. I think I can get across that general message without using those words. If I did use them she'd think I was being a d*ck. She may do selfish things but she's never obviously rude. we definitely have an understanding when it comes to fighting or disagreements. we may argue but we never go into that a**hole zone. Not verbally anyway. But the message you are suggesting I do agree with.

 

I really need to step away from the possibility of reconciliation. I need to make her feel afraid of really losing me forever. I think she feels unsure right now. Like this could or could not work for her. I think she needs to feel like she really may never get me back. Desperate. I think only then will she truly consider the loss for real.

 

We know this:

 

1- she isn't sure of anything right now

2- she feels like she could probably get me back

3- she feels comfortable enough to call on me and NOT have to pine for me

4- she's too comfortable

 

I don't deny that she's hurting. I don't know how I've made it seem in my posts but she's visibly upset. She misses me. She just still isn't sure if getting back together is the best option for her. at least not right now. Fine. That's fair. Then instead of hanging around I'll go elsewhere.

 

You're all right. 1 month is not enough time for much to change. I mean, we broke up in February so it's been more than a month. we initially went NC on 2/28. Then I heard from her a few weeks ago. That's when all of 'this' started.

 

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoys their Saturdays. I'll wait on all of your responses and check back in later.

 

Thanks again. I mean it.

[Country_Girl]

I don't believe the door is closed yet, like you said, otherwise you may not have gone to dinner. But also realize, she may have met with you to relieve some guilt. After all, she said she called the meeting to see if you are okay. Guilt isn't enough to make a person come back. What I think makes them come back, is the good memories. After enough time has passed, you tend to forget the bad times (or they seem minuscule) and they are over-ridden by the good, fun, happy times. I feel like dumpers go through the process in reverse. That's why dumpee's are quick to reconcile, remembering all the good, but then as time goes on they reflect on the not so happy times & by the time the dumper comes around, the dumpee has moved on. Meanwhile, the dumper feels only the effects of bad times/arguing, in an effort to stop the pain they snap and call a breakup. They are content with it at first, maybe even breathe a sigh of relief, but the pain/longing comes later.

 

As long as you left that impression, that life is moving forward without her, then I don't believe this will be the last of her contact with you. After a week or 2 by no contact on your part, I think it might be fair to say she might start questioning her decision. It's human nature to associate your happiness with another person, and she might start wondering why you are so happy without her, that she might just want some of that back.

 

If you do reconcile, expect it to be a long process. I could see it being anywhere from 3 months to a year. I'm basing that off of past experience and stories I have read. The first stage will be the missing you part, I say 2-6 months for that to happen, and intensify as time goes. The next stage will be rejection/comparison. Dumper's ego's get shot too, that's why they sometimes linger in the background, after all, everyone wants to feel desirable. They might start to feel confident again and take a stab at the dating scene. They are going to be rejected, feel hurt, much like we did when they rejected us. Right now I could care less if I asked a guy out and he flat out said no. Know why? Because the pain of my ex rejecting me was so much more since it came from a person I love and trusted. But the dumper was not rejected, they did the rejecting, and they are going to feel it when someone that doesn't even know them turns them down.

 

That's when they start thinking of you, "so & so" never rejected me. "So & so" saw something special in me and gave me a chance. If someone then accepts a date with them, that's when the comparisons are going to come in to play. Maybe the new guy/girl has an annoying laugh, maybe they twirl their hair the wrong way. And that's when it's going to hit the dumper, and you will most likely get some kind of "feeler" contact.

 

Since it's a long process, that's why everyone says to heal and move on. Not what anyone wants to hear, but by the time you let go of the idea and really move on, it will be too late by the time the dumper wants to reconcile. I held on longer than I should have, because I knew about this process & I know he will come back, but it will be too late.

[danrs]

1784,

 

Personally, unless I'm missing something, I think you "smoked" that get together. You did fine. Yes, women are perceptive, and she likely knows you were still hurting a bit and possibly even thinking of reconcilliation with her. SO WHAT? She also saw your self control in not bringing it up, and that will surely manifest itself as doubt within her. Maybe she saw it, but she'll be wondering why you didn't SAY it. And when she did start to open up about it and looking like she was going to get teary eyed, you shut her down in a polite and gentle way and let her know now was not the time for that deep of a discussion.

 

You're a "good guy". A prick, a "bad boy", or a player may have been able to hide everything from her. You're not those things, and I'm assuming those types of guys may not interest her. You're humnan, and it showed a little bit last night. However, SO DID YOUR SELF CONTROL in a tough situation! In fact, I'd argue it is a "plus" for you in her eyes if she did "sense" you still cared, yet were able to remain so in control of your emotions that you did not verbally "put yourself out there" to her.

 

We can all alalyze this to death, and she may very well be herself. But at the end of the day I see nothing you did to hurt your cause. That "long look into her eyes" at the end? She could take that any number of ways. Were it me, I'd be thinking "what was that look for? Was he hurt? Is he confused about what to do? Was there something he wanted to say? Why didn't he say it? Is he unsure about me? Was he thinking this is "goodbye"? Etc., etc.

 

Just like you're analyzing things, so is she. Now give her time to do so, and wonder. Go back to INC and nonchalance. She'll be along shortly. When she does contact, keep doing as you have been. You should be right back into "moving on" mode today.

 

I agree with the sentiment that she needs to feel you continuing to be unsure about her and the situation, and needs to feel you continuing to move on from her.

 

I don't think you hurt yourself in the least bit last night. Let her continue to stew in her bowl of uncertainty, lonliness, and confusion.....while you continue moving on. She'll see it and feel it.

 

I think you're doing just fine personally. Now go back to what you were doing, and remain "unaffected" by her actions. Don't be cold...just remain cool. If she has any thoughts of reconcilliation, you've only increased them after last night, IMO. And if she is NOT thinking of reconcilliation, you did nothing I see that made you lose any self respect, or any respect she's gained for you. If nothing comes from last night, you can still hold your head very high today, and that is the most important thing to come out of last night I think.

 

Good job. Now remain COOL!

[1784]

I'll write more later but danrs, that post really made me feel f'n good. Thank you so much. I think you're spot on.

[1784]

So I've taken some time to think about things and/or not think about them to death. I feel a little better. I have to agree with the danrs here. I didn't lose anything. I didn't give much of anything away. I played it the way I had intended to play it. As far as she knows I'm getting along okay without her. She actually said as much to me during dinner.

 

I may not have gotten what I expected from the evening but that's my own fault. I speculated, got a little excited and probably put too much on this one meeting. At the end of the day I think I handled myself just fine. If I'm wondering about things she must be wondering even more. Like I said, I didn't really give much up. Sure, she may have gotten some vibes from me but vibes aren't a lot to go on. If anything, vibes just beg for more questioning. Does he or doesn't he? I think I felt something. Or did I? What did he mean when he said ...? Why didn't he try to kiss me? Do you think he's seeing someone else?

 

Again, I'm doing what she's doing. I'm analyzing. The difference is that I have more to analyze than she does. She said a lot more. It is what it is. If she's unsure then she's unsure. I know I left her with a really good representation of myself. Someone she would (should) be proud to be with. If she ultimately decides to move on. which I'm pretty damn sure she has not done yet, then that's her choice. I'd say "That's her loss" but that's just silly. If you want to be with someone you are. If you don't then you probably don't.

 

My plan is to go right back to NC. I'll see if she contacts me. If she does I think I'll be a little more difficult this time around. Make it harder on her. Make her think that perhaps the last meeting was enough for me to say goodbye. Why are you still contacting me? I thought we were done? That kind of attitude. You're still here? Why?

 

Honestly, at this point I don't know what else to do or what other attitude to take. I'm not one to get all pathetic over a girl. Sure, I've been sad but if someone doesn't want you then someone doesn't want you. I don't like to stay around places I'm not wanted. Sure I miss her but that's probably more nostalgia than anything else. day by day she is less and less a part of my life. And you know what? That's her own damn fault. Sure, I'm a little bitter but I know I have to be in order to move forward... with or without her. The pride needs to kick in and I believe it has.

 

By the way, I'm still awaiting some responses from people : )

[Graceful]

Hiya 1784,

 

Hope you had a nice day. I did. Sun was shining and it felt good.

 

Now for you.

 

I'm a little dismayed at the level of dramatic responses. There's no reason to be ripping every last word apart here, all you did was have dinner, and a nice quiet one at that. So what's to regret? Nothing. What assumption can be made? None. What's next?

 

Here's my take.

 

Women aren't necessarily all that perceptive. We can't read minds. So your ex can only go by what she experienced at dinner, which was a nice, friendly, experience with the guy she dumped because he had to tend to a very important family matter and had to set priorities in his life that she, unfortunately, was unable to support then, and apparently is not planning to support now.

 

She is who she is. She won't change. She will always be selfish. She can try with all her might to think before she speaks. She can try with all her might to learn to take a step back and be more understanding. She can learn behavior modification. But she can't change her *nature*, no more than you can. No one can. We can change our behavior, and we can learn what sets us off, our triggers, our boundaries, etc., but we cannot change our nature. We can, however, learn to manage our internal emotions.

 

So I have to ask you. Why do you want to be with this girl? She's 30 years old, what you see is what you get. If you were to reconcile, are you in it for the long haul, is she who you want to marry, or have a future with (perhaps just living together, not married) -- have kids with?

 

I mean, what's the bottom line to reconciling with her? Because if you don't really know, and you already know she's really not someone you want a future with, then it's game over right now. Plain and simple.

 

And if she is someone you think you'd want ... can you picture yourself with someone this selfish? Someone who lacks empathy?

 

At the end of the day I think I handled myself just fine. If I'm wondering about things she must be wondering even more. Like I said, I didn't really give much up. Sure, she may have gotten some vibes from me but vibes aren't a lot to go on. If anything, vibes just beg for more questioning. Does he or doesn't he? I think I felt something. Or did I? What did he mean when he said ...? Why didn't he try to kiss me? Do you think he's seeing someone else?

Agreed. Utterly and wholeheartedly. You didn't crack. Not even close. Impeccable.

 

But what's more important to me is that you were yourself. You did what comes naturally to you, you weren't putting on an act. You may have used some self-restraint, but that's part of your intelligence and your well-mannered, masculine built-in radar. So I agree. You gave her absolutely nothing to work from, you were a blank slate before, and as far as I am concerned, still a blank slate to her. A tabula rasa.

 

I'm not into games for myself, and do not advocate they be played by anyone else. You don't need a script to prepare you if she calls, and you don't need a "game plan" -- and you certainly don't need to turn the tables or worry about who has power or any of that other nonsense.

 

When I said you are in the driver's seat, I meant that you are in control of yourself. She's in control of herself, and neither of you control the relationship because you don't have one right now. You don't. There's nothing to control, therefore, other than your own behavior and words.

 

My only advice is to seriously think about what the motivation and incentive would be to get back with her, if she ever comes back and really wants another chance. You may find if you search deep enough, that she really is not the right choice for you anyhow. She had the perfect opportunity to show you who she really was when you needed her the most ... and she told you alright. When the going got rough, your ex got going, didn't she? Did she stay by you? Did she say, let me know what I can do to help. Did she say, "I'm with you 100 percent, darling, and I know if the shoe were on the other foot and it were my mother right now, you'd do the same for me." ?? No she didn't.

 

I'm not saying to hold this against her for the rest of your life, that's silly. I honestly feel she can't help it, as I said, she can't change. It's just her way. Forgive her. Let it go. But honestly, does this represent something to you that is a barrier that cannot be penetrated? Only you can answer that.

 

Make it harder on her. Make her think that perhaps the last meeting was enough for me to say goodbye. Why are you still contacting me? I thought we were done? That kind of attitude. You're still here? Why?

Yes, this is what I was driving at. Put her on the spot, make her own up to her behavior and see that it's not a game to play with your emotions. I think you'd be very smart to prepare yourself in this way.

 

Sure, I've been sad but if someone doesn't want you then someone doesn't want you. I don't like to stay around places I'm not wanted. Sure I miss her but that's probably more nostalgia than anything else. day by day she is less and less a part of my life. And you know what? That's her own damn fault. Sure, I'm a little bitter but I know I have to be in order to move forward... with or without her. The pride needs to kick in and I believe it has.

mmmm. Sounds like you've been getting advice from my Mum! This is exactly what she would say, and in fact what she did say to me during my horrible breakup. If someone doesn't want you, then leave and find someone who does.

 

Your ex made a doozie of a mistake, IMHO. But what's done is done. If she contacts you, stick to your resolve above and get to the bottom of things early in the conversation. Put her on the spot. Let her see her actions had and still have consequences. She's 30 years old, it's about time she learns this.

 

Stay the course. As long as you stay in NC, you cannot go wrong. Hope that feels mighty nice, because it should. Keep going forward. Take care.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Graceful

[Ajax]

1784, I've been pondering your situation quite a bit today, and this is what I've come up with...

 

I think this dinner was good for you. Not, as you may think, to get her back. Rather to help you move on. You now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've done everything in your power (which was considerable) and she's still "confused." You treated her with dignity and respect, and she continues to blow it.

 

I hope that this will help give you even greater clarity, and that it will reinforce the type of person she is. Not someone you can count on.

 

Of course I know as well as anyone that the heart wants what the heart wants, but there does come a point where the mind can balance that out. It seems that your ex has some serious commitment issues, and you said yourself how selfish she is.

 

From the things you've posted, including in my thread, I can tell you're a thoughtful and compassionate guy. There's someone out there who will appreciate that.

[Country_Girl]

Sorry if I jumped the gun on the whole time line for reconciliation, just was trying to give u a gauge on what to expect.

 

I in no way was basing that off of the dinner/date. As far as that goes, another poster mentioned that your expectations probably weren't met because these plans were made so far in advance. We are all human, we play things out in our minds how we want things to go, the ideal situation. I think that's exactly what happened here. Even though you wanted no expectations of how the evening would go, I'm sure somewhere in your mind you thought about a certain outcome or maybe even more definitive action/words on her part.

 

So you're simply feeling off because all those expectations weren't met. Doesn't matter what look you gave her, even if you looked at her with the same loving eyes you always do- you didn't give anything away.

 

As long as you are acting nonchalant, then she will be guessing as much as you do. And will eventually have to come to you and ask how you are feeling about the situation because she won't have any verbal indicators.

 

I really hope I make sense, I had my wisdom teeth pulled and I'm loopy from the pain meds

[1784]

@ Graceful - Thanks for taking the time to write that long response. The effort that people put into other people's dilemmas here really amazes me.

 

I read your response last night and figured I'd give it a little time to sink in so that when I responded I'd have a clear head and be as honest as I can with everyone, including myself.

 

Firstly, I do think we all tend to over-analyze everything a bit. I think that most people, when they're in a situation, aren't as contrived as we make them out to be. People simply respond to the situation at hand. They may have an overall feeling about something but every little thing that comes out of their mouth (or what doesn't) can't be measured. Sure, we're going to make sense of it but I think we are giving them too much credit to think that every response is well thought out.

 

Having said that, I think it's important to realize in my situation that my ex was very nervous. I was too. I think my overall game plan was to remain unaffected and aloof. I think I stuck to that plan and executed it to the best of my abilities. She is a very emotional woman. She goes with what she feels (to a fault). I'm guessing that more than anything right now she knows 2 things. 1- that she misses me immensely and isn't having the easiest time without me. 2- going back to 'our situation', full of arguments and sadness, doesn't seem like the greatest option. So I think she's at a crossroads of sorts. She knows she loves me but give the last time we were still a couple, she's just unsure. I think that's normal. I have many of the same reservations. While I do miss her I can honestly say that if she were back in my life today I don't know how I'd feel about it. There'd be a lot of work involved. And the thing to consider is "would all that work be worth it"?

 

You're right, she won't change. I know she's selfish. She knows she's selfish. This is something that has always weighed on my mind throughout the tenure of our relationship. I guess in the end I accepted this about her. I felt that all of her good qualities afforded her some not so flattering ones. No one is perfect. Sure, I still don't advocate her selfishness but it was something that I did accept. Why? I don't know. This is still something that I'm asking myself. There were a number of times where I needed her to be 100% supportive no matter what and she made the particular situation about her and how it affected her life. When I was unemployed it was about her, 'our' plans, what her friends and family thought about my unemployment ("1784 doesn't have a job YET?"). If i got sick I was somehow ruining her plans that I had to break. Anything that I'd go through seemed to be about her when it was something directly affecting me. I didn't love this and it's always been something that's weighed on my mind. So between my mom's health, my "lack of motivation" in my career (I do just fine but I guess she wants more financial security), and assorted other issues it's safe to say that this has been something very difficult for me to get beyond. So there's that and that's no small potatoes.

 

But then there is everything that I do love about her. I think she has a really good heart. She makes me laugh. She's intelligent. She's motivated. She has very high standards. I find her very attractive. We have the same morals, similar goals, similar religious faith, etc. She shows me a side to herself that not many get to see. I feel like I want to hold her and protect her. I've guarded her heart with my life. She's very precious to me. It's very hard to let that go just because she tends to be selfish. This is what I'm wrestling with.

 

The other thing that bothers me, which you mentioned, has to do with empathy. This can be directly linked to her selfishness. There are times when I just want someone to hear me out, let me know that they're there for me no matter what and tell me it's going to be ok. Now I'm an only child and very independent. I've never really relied on people in my life unless I felt very comfortable doing so. Since we were together for so long she became a person I went to with things. The thing is, she was really good at giving PROACTIVE advice but not as good in the "c'mere, it's gonna be alright" department. She takes a business-like approach to things and doesn't show a lot of love/care in those situations. I know it's her way of caring but sometimes you just need someone to sit with you instead of directing traffic. This was something that always weighed on my mind as well. For her there is a lot more value in the doing. The fixing. For me, while I do like to fix things I also put a lot of stock in the humanity of a situation. After all, as humans, our ability to empathize, sympathize, coddle, etc is a very valuable trait that tends to be undervalued in today's world.

 

God this is getting long. I just want you all to understand as best you can what I'm dealing with.

 

What I've expressed in this thread more than anything else is that I would like the option to see if we could reconcile. I'm sure this has a lot to do with ego than I'd care to admit. If she were to approach me with signs of reconciliation I would definitely consider it. I would. I love her. For her good and her bad I do love her. I feel a connection with her that I can't say I've felt with someone else and I've had many girlfriends over the years. Would I ultimately get back together with her? That would really depend upon the way in which we handled reconciling. There would have to be apologies, explanations and plans for the handling of future conflicts. We always prided ourselves on how we communicated so well with one another. Looking back I think that while we were probably better than a lot of people there were still things that we swept under the rug. And those things never go away. So yes, I would still consider her. If I didn't then I would have never gone to dinner the other night. I would have just said "No, it's still over and that will never change".

 

So this is where I am. I think the door is mostly closed but I've left it open a crack. What can I say, I'm being totally honest here. I still love her. I'm not going to WAIT for her, though. I can't. That's not smart and will do me no good. So my main objective is to heal. To be happy. And if she comes along then I'll deal with that then. You can only make so many plans of how you're gonna handle something. Mostly you're gonna go with your day to day instincts. I'm not into games. I may try to get an idea of what I'd like to do or how to handle myself but when it comes to someone you love, if you start playing all sorts of games then you know it's not worth it. You shouldn't have to play games with someone you want to be totally honest with.

 

So in summary, I'm still trying to figure things out myself. I'm not dead set on taking her back if that situation were to present itself. I would definitely give it serious consideration. I don't plan on waiting for her. If she does contact me I do plan on doing what's best for me instead of trying to figure out what would be nice for her. I think Friday's dinner went fine. Like I said, it wasn't the HOME RUN that some people were hoping for but it did serve a purpose. I can honestly say that I still felt a lot of love for her. I also felt a lot of love from her. It was good to see her. Yes, I'm still sad about the breakup but I don't think I gave much indication of that. But right now as I write this I am kind of sad. I wish I weren't but I am. It hurts. It's not always easy writing all of this out but I think it's good for me and for you all to read.

 

I'm trying so very hard to do the right thing here. Between my mom's health, the situation with my ex, etc, it hasn't been a really easy road. I'm sorry, I don't even know where I'm going with this post anymore. I was just writing.

 

Anyway, thanks for all of the responses. Please keep them coming. They keep me going strong. They mean the world to me. I wish I had some more uplifting things to say today but I guess some days it just weighs a lot heavier than others.

[1784]

I apologize for the War & Peace-esque post. I just really needed to get that all out there. Please don't let the length of it deter you from responding to anything you see above. Thanks as always.

[robinseggblue]

I am really feeling for you now. I really am. I can see that you are starting to feel defeated. Chin up old boy! Seriously. This situation is not as bad as you are feeling it to be right now. You are at a low point, that is all. Nothing more.

 

I should tell you now, that I don't much believe in quitting. I feel despair and sadness when people suggest leaving someone because they have one or two bad qualities. It makes me want to suggest to them, that they might have one or two bad qualities too. We are all human, and not perfect. If the bad quality is truly insurmountable, well that's another story. Sometimes the mountains that would have to be scaled to get over the problem are just too high. (If her selfishness is this mountain, then so be it.) But if the determination is there to surmount something and there is also patience on the other side...what IS insurmountable anyway? However, both parties have to recognize the problem and the need for change, of course.

 

I guess I just hate to hear someone suggest giving up on something. Ever! Is it not usually the person who never gave up on us, that we remember most in life? Or the person that we never gave up on, who then succeeded and proved themselves in ways we didn't think possible, invoking in us a feeling of teary pride? Yes, I understand that you have to watch out for yourself first and foremost. Totally understand that. It's just that, to find true love with someone is just so rare, and these days, it seems like people are just so ready to discard significant others because they are not perfect. We are living in a world where we have so much choice now, that I think it is transferring over to our personal lives.

 

I'm not saying that you might not find someone in a year or two from now (or even this weekend) that you could fall in love with, but that person will not be perfect either. As countrygirl said, maybe the new person that you find will "twirl her hair the wrong way" or flirt to a point that makes you uncomfortable etc. There are so so so many things that have to "line up" when you meet someone for things to lead to "love." You just don't realize it until you are out in the dating world again. You have been in a relationship for 3 years right? Do you remember the hassle of dating? Just finding someone you want to date is hard enough, and then when you actually go out, there are an unlimited number of things that can turn you off. You forget about these things when you are in a relationship and happy (or reasonably happy.) The grass always seems greener on the other side. Always.

 

I am not suggesting that you wait for her. Hell no. But I also don't think you should get so discouraged thinking about it not working out with her either. Worry is a wasted energy. You have no idea what is going to happen in the future. Strange (and good) things happen out of nowhere. Things seem bleak to you right now. "Now" is just a moment in time, things can and do change quite quickly sometimes. Just when you think something is set in stone, "well guess what happened today" you could be saying. I know this all sounds rather vague, but many things have happened to me out of the blue in the last year, that were rather pleasant and totally unexpected. You are feeling down right now because you don't see much hope in the future, but pal, you can't always see what's going to happen in the future. Am I making any sense at all? lol I hope so.

 

Sometimes, people just need others to have a little faith in them, so that they can feel faith in themselves. You are beginning to get discouraged, because she doesn't seem like she has enough faith in you or the relationship right? Well, let's look at this from the opposite viewpoint. If you give up on her, throw up your hands and say "Oh it'll never work" do you think that will make her feel inspired to be who you want her to be. Sometimes, you have to let someone know that the sky's the limit for them to see it themselves. Especially the pessimistic, cynical amongst us. Be an inspiration! Come on! Let's go! People who give up on things are a dime a dozen. Why not be special instead?

 

In answer to a previous posting: I did not mean to say that you should literally tell her that you feel like a leaf. That was my sense of humor clouding things. To be clear, what I meant was that you should pull back a little. For example, if she wants to meet up again, let her know that you are unsure if you want to. (Because you are.) Let her know that you are unsure about her (Because you are.) Let her know that you need time to yourself to figure things out (Because you do.) This all counts as "pulling back."

 

You shouldn't have to play games with someone you want to be totally honest with.

 

 

The truth of the matter is that if you aren't being completely honest with each other and spilling the beans fully, then there is already a "game" involved, and if you aren't playing it the best way possible, you won't have the best chance of it turning out as you hope. I think the word "game" is a bit of a misnomer, and turns people off. Life is a game. We are not fully forthcoming with everyone during the course of a day, with respect to how we feel or what we'd like. Usually, this is because we know that if we withold what we are really feeling, or suppress doing what we'd really like to do, that in end, or the near future, we have a better chance of getting what we'd really like to get. This is game playing to a certain extent. Of course, it would be wonderful if we didn't have to do it, but life is not that easy. Observe what happens to those of us who say and do exactly what they think and feel. Do those types get what they want most of the time?

There is a strategy for almost everything. A "game plan" if that's what we're calling it here. Game plans, scripts... All it really means is a "form of preparation". At the very least, it relaxes you because you know that you are organized and at best, you win, because it is so well thought out and executed.

 

Being prepared is half the battle.

 

Chin up! Is it raining in NY, like it is here? That could be half of it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by robinseggblue

[Ajax]

Chin up! Is it raining in NY, like it is here? That could be half of it.

 

I don't know about NYC, but here in the west it's getting pretty cloudy. I was hoping to spend some time in the park tonight, but that looks unlikely.

 

I liked robinseggblue's upbeat perspective. I also feel that worrying about something that you really can't control is a waste of energy. That being said, I'm quite guilty of it myself.

 

1784, I've been living a bit vicariously throuh you the past couple days. Having my ex come back asking for a meetup would be a dream come true... that could potentially become a nightmare.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think you're going to have to let time do it's thing. It's hard for me to give that advice since I'm still letting it do it's thing on me. But at the moment there's really nothing you can do to bring your ex back and get her to really make an effort at reconciling. It has to come from within her. And maybe it isn't that she doesn't want to... maybe she's genuinely incapable of making that commitment right now. Mayb ever. But That's not your fault.

 

Hopefully you will be able to enjoy the rest of the weekend. I have school planning to do!

[Graceful]

Hi and I hope you had a nice day, 1784. Mine was hectic, but the sun was out again today and that helped. How's it going? Just taking it easy?

 

First, I hang out mostly on the breakup and coping boards. You may not see me very often, but I do write a lot of text! But you are very welcome for anything that I may contribute to your healing or helping you in any way. We're all strangers here, yet bonded in a unique and fascinating, and caring way. It really is amazing, I agree.

 

I have to say that I don't see you as sounding defeated at all, so I want you to know that. This is a breakup board, right? So you sound like a guy who is going through a break up, learning, growing, evolving, and trying to make sense of things that just don't make sense in every day life. Emotions are all tangled up, you have your family issues that are weighing on you, and a host of other issues. That's why you're here.

 

I think you have a good head on your shoulders. What I tried to do in asking you those questions about your ex's MO is to get you to really think about how it worked for you, and if it is something you can live with in a partner. We all make trade offs and while it's a no brainer to say no one is perfect, that doesn't mean that a deal breaker isn't a deal breaker, even if it is "one" thing. One thing can be a pretty darn big thing.

 

There were a number of times where I needed her to be 100% supportive no matter what and she made the particular situation about her and how it affected her life. When I was unemployed it was about her, 'our' plans, what her friends and family thought about my unemployment ("1784 doesn't have a job YET?"). If i got sick I was somehow ruining her plans that I had to break. Anything that I'd go through seemed to be about her when it was something directly affecting me.

You're the only one who can make this judgment, but I have to say the obvious here, and that is that your ex has real narcissistic qualities. The lack of empathy being one and the way everything ultimately doubles back to her is another. If this would be something you could live with in the long run, that is entirely your decision. Just for the sake of discussion, this would kill me, hurt me, and ultimately drive me away. I need and want someone to have my back the same way I will have his. I need to be indulged when I need to be indulged, the same way I know when and how to indulge my guy. This is just my core, and I could not trade it off, as I tried to do so once in the past, and it hurt me and taught me that I cannot settle in this area ever again.

 

I feel like I want to hold her and protect her. I've guarded her heart with my life. She's very precious to me. It's very hard to let that go just because she tends to be selfish. This is what I'm wrestling with.

Nice. And I think this is a good focal point for you as time goes by, whether you get that second chance or not. There is something very noble about wanting to protect a woman, and there isn't enough of that these days, so if she or anyone else brings that out in you, that's not to be taken lightly. Still ... mmmmmm.

I felt very comfortable doing so. Since we were together for so long she became a person I went to with things. The thing is, she was really good at giving PROACTIVE advice but not as good in the "c'mere, it's gonna be alright" department. She takes a business-like approach to things and doesn't show a lot of love/care in those situations.

Ha ha. You do know that's generally what men do, right? Her approach is very masculine, I find that very interesting, but I also think it does have a lot to do with her MO, wanting to solve the problem and get if checked off the list. She does not really indulge you with 'oh, honey, let me give you a back rub" because she just wants the problem to go away by solving it. Interesting.

 

If you were to try again with her, this is something you'd have to talk about, telling her this is what you'd love from her, if she could try to treat you with a little more innocent compassion instead of making your problems into projects.

 

I know it's her way of caring but sometimes you just need someone to sit with you instead of directing traffic. This was something that always weighed on my mind as well. For her there is a lot more value in the doing. The fixing. For me, while I do like to fix things I also put a lot of stock in the humanity of a situation. After all, as humans, our ability to empathize, sympathize, coddle, etc is a very valuable trait that tends to be undervalued in today's world.

Again, this is generally (and stereotypically) what women are good at and where we are coming from, so it has to tell you something that your ex is out in left field some where! And this might be something that could be remedied, if she were to try to address it. But then again, can you imagine meeting someone who does this sort of thing naturally? Someone who justs "gets you" and gets "it" just as a matter of course (like the way I do, for example).

 

I'll cut to the chase. I do appreciate the level of detail you brought to your response to me, and I loved reading it in all its glory. And it's a very good way for you to continue to sort out how you feel. It's complicated. You have only to gain as you go through this process, you know. Nothing to lose. I like that idea you've left the door open a crack. That's enough for you to maintain your healing pathway and keep NC, but it also hasn't ruled out a second chance if she pushes her toe against the door. So I think that's a sweet way to stay for now. Sooner of later, the wind will just blow the door shut, as time goes along, or it will shut gently one day, without you even noticing. It will just feel natural to you to let go. Does that mean she won't pop up some day? Who knows? But the best way to live your life is to look forward to happiness, what ever package it comes in.

 

I don't cry for my ex anymore, but I still cry from the pain and disappointment in what happened. That takes a very long time to get over, much longer than getting over the person. See what I mean?

 

Like I said, it wasn't the HOME RUN that some people were hoping for but it did serve a purpose. I can honestly say that I still felt a lot of love for her. I also felt a lot of love from her. It was good to see her. Yes, I'm still sad about the breakup but I don't think I gave much indication of that.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't put much stock into these first meeting reunion things. I thought it sounded really nice. It was a home run because you both didn't do anything foolish, and say things you weren't prepared to back up just yet. That was respectful.

 

You're dealing with an awful lot. If you're sad, that's perfectly understandable and fine. Just be sad, then try to laugh at yourself a little bit if you get too pathetic, okay? And let us know how you are. We really are here for you, no matter what. Coddle. Coddle. :bunny:Nurture. Nurture. Just say the word. Grace

Edited April 11, 2011 by Graceful

[1784]

@ everyone

 

Firstly, as always, I just want to thank you for the responses. The time and care that you've all put into your posts has really been amazing. I won't stop thanking you so expect it often.

 

Mornings have always been the toughest time for me in regards to thoughts of my ex. I know there are logical reasons for this but it doesn't change the fact that she seems to be more on my mind when I wake up than any other time of the day. So being that it was mid-morning and that we just had an evening together you can understand why I had so much to say in my post earlier today. I mean, I asked for this. I could have easily just stayed NC and rolled right along. It was my choice to go to dinner with her, though, and I can't say that I regret doing so. It was something I wanted to do. Do I feel a little heartache because of it? Sure I do. But that's the risk you have to take. I wouldn't take it back. It's all a learning process.

 

I think the mistake I made, if you can call it a mistake, is that I really built this dinner up into something bigger than it was meant to be. I let my imagination run away with me a little bit too far. I honestly don't know what it "was". Maybe it wasn't anything particularly definable. I think I gave it unjustified meaning. I think that's only natural. Since I've had some time now to think about it, I'm okay with it. If it was a first meeting with more to come then I'm happy with how I went. It was all good things and no negatives (unless I choose to put a negative spin on them from my imagination). If it was just that one meeting and it doesn't lead to another then that's okay too because I know that I put my best foot forward. I know I handled myself with dignity, self respect and control. Nothing to be ashamed of. I lost nothing by going to dinner with her except some peace of mind. But I'd do it again. I know I would. Sometimes you just have to say F it and do what your gut tells you.

 

As for feeling defeated, I can't say that is what I'm feeling. I don't feel as if I've lost anything. I do feel some heartache, yes. I picked at the scab a bit and now it's bleeding a bit. What can I say? It's true. But I'm certainly not back to "square one" as so many people insist happens when you break NC. I've learned far too much to be back there. It's a minor setback. I know I'll be okay.

 

There's also a bit of impatience in me. For all I know that dinner could be the thing that sparks something in a day, a week, a month, etc. Had we not had it maybe all would be lost. Who knows? I sure don't. And what I realize right now is that I have to be okay with not knowing. There really are no guarantees in life. Sure, we can do what we can to better our odds but anything is possible. It's only been two days since we had dinner and I;m sure she must be pondering things just as I have been. Definitely more now than she was 2 weeks ago anyway. So, in a sense, mission accomplished. I gave her some things to think about. That should have been my goal all along. It's a lot more feasible and realistic. One meeting does not a reconcile make.

 

And yeah, things with my mom definitely make this a lot harder. I'm not only feeling abandoned by my ex but I have the constant reminder that my mom's time is limited as well. It's hard enough dealing with one thing. The two of them at the same time is a pretty potent drink to swallow. I have no choice in the matter. I have to drink it. It's reality. I haven't had the easiest life and I don't know exactly why but that's a whole other discussion.

 

Am I giving up on her? Um, not exactly. As I said, I'm not throwing the possibility of reconciliation out the window completely. But I can't wait for it day by day either. That will drive me insane. So I know I can't do that. I think I have to let life happen and stop trying to control it so much. Of course I'll keep an eye on it. Probably less and less as time goes on. But right now that's where I am. I wouldn't call it optimistic. I wouldn't call it pessimistic. I think I'd just call it life. Yin and yang. Balance. That's what I am striving for.

 

I have enough love for her right now to keep her in the background. I haven't given up on that love just yet. It may amount to nothing or it may amount to something. I know that I can't make any decisions for her nor would I ever want to. I want her to WANT to be by my side. The same way I want to WANT to be by hers. I think we just haven't had enough time away to really come to any concrete decisions about that. Maybe we never will. If we don't, though, I know it wasn't mean to be. That really is good enough for me.

 

Oh, and I do think she is a bit narcissistic. I never considered that (as a condition) until after we broke up. When I finally did consider it and looked it up I was actually pretty surprised at how many of the traits she showed. Obviously not a good sign. Those of you who know the story of Narcissus or who may have just seen pictures of him looking at his reflection in the water and falling in love with his beauty should understand what I'm talking about. Or just Google it. Well, her mom basically told her to look in the mirror all the time. She told her that THAT image was the one that mattered most. Stuff like that. It's no wonder she got to be the way she is in regards to her selfishness. Just figured I'd throw that out there.

 

Funny that you should mention her approach to things being very masculine. I've said the same thing myself on numerous occasions. Once again, her mom is the parent who wore the pants in the family. Her dad, while he is a very nice and intelligent man, was not exactly an example of masculinity to his two daughters. They love him but don't have a lot of respect for him. They looked at the mother as the dominant parent and they pretty much modeled themselves after her. I've seen my ex speak to me the way her mom speaks to her dad. I had to point that out to her and let her know that it was something that will not be tolerated. Of course it happened again but I never let it slide. Just another interesting little tidbit for you all to chew on.

 

Anyway, that's what I have for you all tonight. I feel ok. I was kind of upset earlier as you could tell from my post. I've tried to weigh the positives and the negatives alike. In regards to the dinner, it is what it is (or was). I have to be okay with that. I also have to realize that some things just are. We're probably both not in a place to make any real decisions about anything but I do think a pleasant evening together can only help matters and not hurt them. I'm not giving up on her just yet. I mean, I'm not really counting in her either. She was the lead actress in the play. She had the job. Now she doesn't. She's still hanging around the theater, though. It's her decision if she would like to try out for the lead again but it's my decision to give her the part. We bot have a say and that's the way it should ALWAYS be. That's the mistake that I will not ever make again - feeling like it's her role to reclaim whenever she wants it. That's just not the case.

 

All of your responses helped a great deal. I hope I'm addressing most of what you all mentioned. I try to lump it together and write what I'm feeling. I hope we can keep this going because I really feel like I have a support system that I can turn to. I felt very alone this morning as you could probably tell. But knowing that you all are staying with me on this literally brings a tear to my eye. I also hope that some of what I say and do brings you something you can learn from as well.

[1784]

Well it's Monday and I'm still feeling a bit off today. I do feel like I took a few steps back. Not in the sense that I've forgotten what I've learned but more because she's back in or near the spotlight of my mind. I really wish I knew what she was thinking. I guess I won't, though, unless she chooses to tell me. The possibilities range from "Now I can go on without him with a little more peace of mind" to "I really miss him a lot. I don't know if I want this to be the end". Or something in between those two. There's simply no way of knowing.

 

My options are limited here. To be honest, I think the only option really is no contact unless she decided to contact me. When I had 2 weeks to ponder our evening together it was a nice gift (sort of a Trojan horse to be honest). I was able to relax and know that I had something planned in the future with her. Knowing that I had that to hold onto I was able to stop thinking about her. Weird, huh? Just having that little piece of her was enough to get me in a more confident state of mind. Now that the future is blank and undecided I feel a bit more unsure of myself.

 

I really don't know what's gonna happen now. All I can control is my own destiny. Someone asked me a very simple yet smart question recently which really made me think. Here it is:

 

"Can you do without the things you miss more than you can with the things you don't?"

 

This is something that I've been pondering a lot today. It's a fair and valid question. I just haven't gotten to a definite answer.

 

So what words of wisdom do you all have for me today? It's been quiet on this thread. I feel like I need some encouragement.

 

Thanks.

 

1784

[GreenPolicy]

 

So what words of wisdom do you all have for me today? It's been quiet on this thread. I feel like I need some encouragement.

 

Thanks.

 

1784

 

Just stay focused on yourself. Have you thought about going to 12-step meetings or seeing a therapist? I don't know where I'd be without doing those things.

[1784]

No, I haven't considered those things. I'd kind of like to get through this on my own, in my own way.

[GreenPolicy]

No, I haven't considered those things. I'd kind of like to get through this on my own, in my own way.

 

To each his own. It helped me. As far as talk therapy goes, it's not like my therapist even gives me that much great advice, although a lot of times she does...but I think sometimes we just need to be able to express how we feel instead of bottling it up, and at least in my case, my friends tired of the subject after about 3 months.

[TryTryAgain]

1784 -

 

The unknown future is the hardest part. I'm struggling with that myself. At least you can take comfort in the fact that you put your best foot forward, and that is the lasting memory that is seared in her mind.

 

By the way, I have been keeping up with this thread, but have been sort of sitting on the sidelines. More than anything, I have been admiring how well you and the other recent posters express yourselves in writing. I personally am not much of a writer, but I do find that it helps me cope.

 

Keep your head up. We're all in this together.

[1784]

@ TryTryAgain

 

Please don't sit on the sidelines. Others on this thread have been great as far as detailed responses go. Truly great. But your responses have really helped me tremendously. I need you here, chiming in, whenever you have something to say. You've been one of the people I've depended on the most throughout this whole journey. The advice you've given, the comparisons between our exes, meetups we've had with them, etc. Really, it's like we live in parallel universes. Anything you have to offer on my most recent situation would help a great deal.

 

I'm trying to keep my head up, buddy. I really am. One minute I'm pretty okay with everything and then the next I'm sort of down. It's difficult but I'm not giving up. I'm trying to stay on the bright side of life.

Edited April 11, 2011 by 1784

[1784]

One thing I'd really like to ask you all, especially those of you who have been following this thread, is whether or not you thought having dinner with my ex was too soon/too easy/etc?

 

You can tie it in to all that has been said over the last few days if you wish. I still don't think it was a mistake because I think I gave her yet another reason to reconsider her decision to "give up". Had I come off as a pathetic and desperate fool then I would have definitely said that it was a mistake; and that I did damage to my chances of reconciliation. But considering I did a good job, in my honest estimation, I tend to think that such a meeting can only serve as a positive. I could be wrong, though, which is why I'm asking the question. Obviously i do have my doubts.

[GreenPolicy]

One thing I'd really like to ask you all, especially those of you who have been following this thread, is whether or not you thought having dinner with my ex was too soon/too easy/etc?

 

You can tie it in to all that has been said over the last few days if you wish. I still don't think it was a mistake because I think I gave her yet another reason to reconsider her decision to "give up". Had I come off as a pathetic and desperate fool then I would have definitely said that it was a mistake; and that I did damage to my chances of reconciliation. But considering I did a good job, in my honest estimation, I tend to think that such a meeting can only serve as a positive. I could be wrong, though, which is why I'm asking the question. Obviously i do have my doubts.

 

If you hadn't gone to dinner with her and done super strict NC, you'd always wonder if you had blown a chance at reconciliation. It's obvious that reconciliation is something you desire on some level and you're not over her and you still have feelings for her. You had to satisfy your curiosity over whether you were going to get breadcrumbs or she was testing the waters for reconciliation. Now you don't have to play the What If game. I think the biggest regrets in life come from things we don't do, not things we did. Three years from now you can at least have the peace of mind in knowing you did everything you could to make things work (except for abandoning your mom), and not have to wrestle with the doubts of What If.