seren Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hi WhiteFlower I thought I would explain what I meant by the following ... If you are going to stab me (general) in the back, do it in cold blood with no feeling, don't do it all apologetic and trying to understand it, just do it. It is far more honest, lacks empathy of course, but I don't get half assed empathy toward A's at least. I find it very interesting seren that you would prefer your H's OW to act in cold blood. I am not taking issue with it, but find it very interesting. I'm going to dwell on this for a while... I get A's for love, I would prefer that the WS then left the marriage right away, be honest and be with the OP. Brutal? maybe, honest? much. The reason I would prefer the cold blooded A, is that to think that someone had given even a moments thought to how I (general) could/would be hurt by their actions, I would understand better than understanding that I would be hurt - but went ahead with it anyway. This goes to WS as well. Mine compartmentalised so much he was on some far off Astral Plain !!! I might as well have been a ghost. After D Day, the OW said that she was sorry, peed me off no end, don't be sorry for something you know would hurt, because you (general) knew that, did it and now it is all out in the open you are sorry?? For what? for having an A? for hurting me? what exactly are you sorry about? That is why if the OW had said, I wanted your H, I wanted him to leave and I didn't give a toss about you - I would have thought, ah well, finally you are being honest. I get that. I remember when JJ would post (miss JJ) and everyone knocked her, but I admired her stance, her honesty her, dare I say it, unapologeticness. Not so the MM who says he is keeping the status quo by staying until (insert whatever). This to me is false empathy, it is assuming the WS will react in a particular way and assuming that the truth will be the worse thing - lies are worse, believe me. For me, true empathy comes at the moment there is an attraction to the other, the time when the foot is hovering over the A line. It is the, If I do this then people are going to be hurt thought, so I am going to stop, look at why and then make that decision. That to me is empathy. Being sorry after the fact is compassion, which can happen without remorse ... and I have rambled again, should be a Girl Scout all this rambling. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Hi WhiteFlower I thought I would explain what I meant by the following ... If you are going to stab me (general) in the back, do it in cold blood with no feeling, don't do it all apologetic and trying to understand it, just do it. It is far more honest, lacks empathy of course, but I don't get half assed empathy toward A's at least. I find it very interesting seren that you would prefer your H's OW to act in cold blood. I am not taking issue with it, but find it very interesting. I'm going to dwell on this for a while... I get A's for love, I would prefer that the WS then left the marriage right away, be honest and be with the OP. Brutal? maybe, honest? much. The reason I would prefer the cold blooded A, is that to think that someone had given even a moments thought to how I (general) could/would be hurt by their actions, I would understand better than understanding that I would be hurt - but went ahead with it anyway. This goes to WS as well. Mine compartmentalised so much he was on some far off Astral Plain !!! I might as well have been a ghost. After D Day, the OW said that she was sorry, peed me off no end, don't be sorry for something you know would hurt, because you (general) knew that, did it and now it is all out in the open you are sorry?? For what? for having an A? for hurting me? what exactly are you sorry about? That is why if the OW had said, I wanted your H, I wanted him to leave and I didn't give a toss about you - I would have thought, ah well, finally you are being honest. I get that. I remember when JJ would post (miss JJ) and everyone knocked her, but I admired her stance, her honesty her, dare I say it, unapologeticness. Not so the MM who says he is keeping the status quo by staying until (insert whatever). This to me is false empathy, it is assuming the WS will react in a particular way and assuming that the truth will be the worse thing - lies are worse, believe me. For me, true empathy comes at the moment there is an attraction to the other, the time when the foot is hovering over the A line. It is the, If I do this then people are going to be hurt thought, so I am going to stop, look at why and then make that decision. That to me is empathy. Being sorry after the fact is compassion, which can happen without remorse ... and I have rambled again, should be a Girl Scout all this rambling.That's alright by me, I was a Girl Scout:-). Really though, you're just taking the time to help me understand your meaning and I appreciate that. I also find it...empathetic. Interesting you say that one can have compassion after the fact (of committing adultery) because having compassion doesn't require having remorse. That's what I was trying to express on another thread but got blasted on it. I'm glad to get the (x)BW take on this. Thank you Seren, as always, an enlightening conversation. Edited April 2, 2011 by White Flower Typo Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 oh but yet things you do do define you. For an example, let's say I meet you and you are this incredible author that I really respect and I love reading your books and we get into a personal discussion and you mention to me that you are ****ing a married man I would lose all respect for you. It wouldn't matter that I admired your work as an author, I would just see this big flag waving that says your boundaries are lacking and you are willing to compromise yourself. So even though to you being a mistress is just a small part of you to some others it is huge and changes how they feel about you. Am I making sense? Oh and this was all general you stuff. But what you just describe above is YOUR definition of her...a one dimensional perspective...very narrow. It does not necessarily define who she really is-despite the fact that you have pigeon holed her...you choose to define her that-but it does not make it so. That is like saying Michelle Obama is only a housewife(after all she is not employed anywhere)...but we all know she is way more than that..only a stupid person would think she is a "plain" housewife. Of course you are welcome to define her as such ! Do you often judge a poster by one post? I'm wrong because I think it's funny when I see cheaters out, They're scaredy cats,but the cheater isn't wrong? Life is so confusing. They were not "cheaters"-those people you practically stalked and harassed-you just "thought" they are cheaters. You have no proof. Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Does anyone else smell smug? Please. Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Tiger Woods is a wonderful golfer. But he's also a cheater. And that's not my "perspective." It's a fact. There ya go. Link to post Share on other sites
WorldIsYours Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 The cheater's actions speak for themselves, and you can't blame those on someone else's "perspective." You are free to be an apologist for cheating and to discount it, if you like, but others are entitled to their opinions too. Tiger Woods is a wonderful golfer. But he's also a cheater. And that's not my "perspective." It's a fact. Amen. Funny how he says he values family when he didn't do that for his own. Just like any other cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) That is like saying Michelle Obama is only a housewife(after all she is not employed anywhere)...but we all know she is way more than that..only a stupid person would think she is a "plain" housewife. Of course you are welcome to define her as such ! They were not "cheaters"-those people you practically stalked and harassed-you just "thought" they are cheaters. You have no proof. Oh? Is Michelle Obama more than a plain housewife? Please. I wonder how Michelle Obama would react to infedility? Edited April 2, 2011 by mizliz Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Oh? Is Michelle Obama more than a plain housewife? Please. :lmao: so you think she is a "plain housewife"? I wonder how Michelle Obama would react to infedility? Is this a rhetorical question? But I will answer it anyway, I think, like any other wife she will not be happy (and that's an understatement). But I doubt that Barack has the cojones to cheat..."he aint Bill Clinton"..and have you seen Michelle's masculine arms? Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 But what you just describe above is YOUR definition of her...a one dimensional perspective...very narrow. It does not necessarily define who she really is-despite the fact that you have pigeon holed her...you choose to define her that-but it does not make it so. Probably we're known for the roads we take in life - more than how we describe ourselves. That is like saying Michelle Obama is only a housewife(after all she is not employed anywhere)...but we all know she is way more than that..only a stupid person would think she is a "plain" housewife. Of course you are welcome to define her as such ! Boy are you reaching here Tami. How does living off of the White House residency make one a 'housewife'? With servants, cooks .. We're probably even paying for the maintenance of the vegetable garden and Kennedy's dog - not to mention mama. I'm going to say that Michelle slid into the White House in the same manner she came into her jobs.. I'm told that last 'job' was created for her and she was't replaced after she left. Don't know if she was Ever a housewife, or even took care of her own children. Her mother has taken care of the children up till now. Anyway, whether or not Michelle M'Bell was ever a housewife, has nothing to do with the comparison here. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Boy are you reaching here Tami. How does living off of the White House residency make one a 'housewife'? With servants, cooks .. We're probably even paying for the maintenance of the vegetable garden and Kennedy's dog - not to mention mama. I'm going to say that Michelle slid into the White House in the same manner she came into her jobs.. I'm told that last 'job' was created for her and she was't replaced after she left. Don't know if she was Ever a housewife, or even took care of her own children. Her mother has taken care of the children up till now. Anyway, whether or not Michelle M'Bell was ever a housewife, has nothing to do with the comparison here. Well, am I reachin?..you might want to talk to mizliz ! Anyhow,you obviously missed the point..and I am too tired to explain it to you. Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Well, am I reachin?..you might want to talk to mizliz ! Anyhow,you obviously missed the point..and I am too tired to explain it to you. I sure must have missed it .. got me all rebbed up for nothin .. ha Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Probably we're known for the roads we take in life - more than how we describe ourselves. Boy are you reaching here Tami. How does living off of the White House residency make one a 'housewife'? With servants, cooks .. We're probably even paying for the maintenance of the vegetable garden and Kennedy's dog - not to mention mama. I'm going to say that Michelle slid into the White House in the same manner she came into her jobs.. I'm told that last 'job' was created for her and she was't replaced after she left. Don't know if she was Ever a housewife, or even took care of her own children. Her mother has taken care of the children up till now. Anyway, whether or not Michelle M'Bell was ever a housewife, has nothing to do with the comparison here. Lot's of African American families live generational. It isn't something new. It is the same in many collectives cultures. Why is Michelle O'bama part of the topic, with her "well" toned arms, the bobo doll here? Link to post Share on other sites
desertIslandCactus Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) Lot's of African American families live generational. It isn't something new. It is the same in many collectives cultures. Why is Michelle O'bama part of the topic, with her "well" toned arms, the bobo doll here? I have no idea of Why the concept of M. Obama was brought into this either .. When considering "demensional", I would think one looks at the whole picture. Edited April 2, 2011 by desertIslandCactus Link to post Share on other sites
Shocking Pink Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I love Michelle Obama, I have no idea how you all got started talking about her! I admit I have only skimmed parts of this thread. Obviously a lot of you have some real fine-tuned ideas of what you consider empathy, all I can say about posting with empathy is I was prepared to be slammed on a little for being interested in someone who's still married...I was NOT prepared to be told that my dead brother would be disappointed in me as a person! Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Somehow if people criticize a cheater, then by inference (according to tami chan), we're criticizing Michelle Obama, therefore, people who criticize cheaters are racists? That's cheater's logic, I guess. I don't understand it, myself. I don't think Michelle Obama has anything to do with this, either. LOL:lmao::lmao:! now this is what I call reaching....I gave an example that Michelle Obama even though she is not employed, per se...is, obviously, not just a "plain housewife" she is more that just a the wife of the POTUS. The same way anybody who is an OW or a BS, for that matter is more than just that... But I think it would be too much for you and bnb and dic to even grasp that point because you choose to skew that conversation so that you can say what you said above. Edited April 4, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Somehow if people criticize a cheater, then by inference (according to tami chan), we're criticizing Michelle Obama, therefore, people who criticize cheaters are racists? That's cheater's logic, I guess. I don't understand it, myself. I don't think Michelle Obama has anything to do with this, either. Lol. I'm not sure how Mrs Obama became a focus here, myself. In my defense, when I wrote "plain housewife", I was not condenscending. How the heck do I know how she labels herself? My point is: One lives by their values. If you get off track - so what? We all do. But, don't expect people to respect your choices. I know I am more than my affair, but, I do not blame those who would judge me as lacking empathy when I didn't display it. Link to post Share on other sites
SidLyon Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 LOL:lmao::lmao:! now this is what I call reaching....I gave an example that Michelle Obama even though she is not employed, per se...is, obviously, not just a "plain housewife" she is more that just a the wife of the POTUS. The same way anybody who is an OW or a BS, for that matter is more than just that... But I think it would be too much for you and bnb and dic to even grasp that point not because you are a moron or an idiot but because you choose to skew that conversation so that you can say what you said above. I have no idea why Michelle Obama and housewives were introduced into this thread and what relevance they have to the original post and empathy. Was it supposed to be an example of empathic posting? The OP said: Rather than pointing fingers at other posters, it might behove everyone to read that carefully and consider how it might apply to them - either in their behaviour on this board, or elsewhere. While there are a couple of posters here who spring to mind as the incarnation of empathy and compassion, I would suspect that even those members would have the humility to pause and consider their own behaviour anew. Have you got anything to say about this Tami? Did you "read it carefully" and "consider how it might apply to" yourself? I did, and I did. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 LOL:lmao::lmao:! now this is what I call reaching....I gave an example that Michelle Obama even though she is not employed, per se...is, obviously, not just a "plain housewife" she is more that just a the wife of the POTUS. The same way anybody who is an OW or a BS, for that matter is more than just that... But I think it would be too much for you and bnb and dic to even grasp that point not because you are a moron or an idiot but because you choose to skew that conversation so that you can say what you said above. First, all I asked was how she got in the conversation and I responded to a post that you did not make. One that alluded to the fact of her mother living with them for free. I said it is a generational thing in many African American communities. I skewed nothing...not one damn bit. I asked a freaking question. Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 LOL:lmao::lmao:! now this is what I call reaching....I gave an example that Michelle Obama even though she is not employed, per se...is, obviously, not just a "plain housewife" she is more that just a the wife of the POTUS. The same way anybody who is an OW or a BS, for that matter is more than just that... But I think it would be too much for you and bnb and dic to even grasp that point not because you are a moron or an idiot but because you choose to skew that conversation so that you can say what you said above. Tami - you are skewing the conversation to suit your needs. See the irony in that? Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 My point? Accept your choices and be prepared to defend them. Don't ask of others what you are ill-prepared to stand up for. Honesty is a virtue. I have alot to learn. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Well, you guys might want to go back and see why it was mentioned...not because of empathy but because somebody said that a person is defined by an action or choice. Yes to some degree, but that is a one dimensional and narrow view of looking at a person. A whole is a sum total of all of its parts, so to speak. I gave an example of Michelle Obama, she is not just a "plain housewife" or even just the FOTUS...she is so much more than that, we know that. BNB mentioned something about the African-American culture..yes, well...ok, thanks for the input..but that was not the point.. I did not mention anything about her mother, as that was not the point. DIC mentioned the mother and politicized it by mentioned who is paying for what(as if it makes a difference in their budget -now that's reaching)...so I can't possibly take credit for that. OpunRode said something about people criticizing cheaters are racist...some logic there...I tell ya . MizLiz said something about "oh she's (Michelle Obama) is not a plain housewife?" which is weird because I don;t think anybody in his/her right mind would think that of her, at least, in my humble opinion. But then again, maybe her definition of a plain housewife is different from mine (shrug). Sidlyon, it is obvious that you just want to jump onto the fray-a chance to bash me-without doing your reading. Did I point my finger at anyone? But let me just reiterate my position about empathy for YOUR benefit-since you did not bother reading my previous posts( but find it necessary to comment). I have no empathy for those who wallow in pain and destruction-and that nobody is empathetic ALL of the time. etc.etc..... Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Well, you guys might want to go back and see why it was mentioned...not because of empathy but because somebody said that a person is defined by an action or choice. Yes to some degree, but that is a one dimensional and narrow view of looking at a person. A whole is a sum total of all of its parts, so to speak. I gave an example of Michelle Obama, she is not just a "plain housewife" or even just the FOTUS...she is so much more than that, we know that. BNB mentioned something about the African-American culture..yes, well...ok, thanks for the input..but that was not the point.. I did not mention anything about her mother, as that was not the point. DIC mentioned the mother and politicized it by mentioned who is paying for what(as if it makes a difference in their budget -now that's reaching)...so I can't possibly take credit for that. OpunRode said something about people criticizing cheaters are racist...some logic there...I tell ya . MizLiz said something about "oh she's (Michelle Obama) is not a plain housewife?" which is weird because I don;t think anybody in his/her right mind would think that of her, at least, in my humble opinion. But then again, maybe her definition of a plain housewife is different from mine (shrug). Sidlyon, it is obvious that you just want to jump onto the fray-a chance to bash me-without doing your reading. Did I point my finger at anyone? But let me just reiterate my position about empathy for YOUR benefit-since you did not bother reading my previous posts( but find it necessary to comment). I have no empathy for those who wallow in pain and destruction-and that nobody is empathetic ALL of the time. etc.etc..... Hello...I did not respond to your post. It was someone else's post. Sheeesh. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hello...I did not respond to your post. It was someone else's post. Sheeesh. You asked why Michelle Obama was 'part' of the topic. I responded why(since I had originally mentioned her)Unless I misunderstood you? See below: Why is Michelle O'bama part of the topic.... Link to post Share on other sites
SidLyon Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Well, you guys might want to go back and see why it was mentioned...not because of empathy but because somebody said that a person is defined by an action or choice. Yes to some degree, but that is a one dimensional and narrow view of looking at a person. A whole is a sum total of all of its parts, so to speak. I gave an example of Michelle Obama, she is not just a "plain housewife" or even just the FOTUS...she is so much more than that, we know that. BNB mentioned something about the African-American culture..yes, well...ok, thanks for the input..but that was not the point.. I did not mention anything about her mother, as that was not the point. DIC mentioned the mother and politicized it by mentioned who is paying for what(as if it makes a difference in their budget -now that's reaching)...so I can't possibly take credit for that. OpunRode said something about people criticizing cheaters are racist...some logic there...I tell ya . MizLiz said something about "oh she's (Michelle Obama) is not a plain housewife?" which is weird because I don;t think anybody in his/her right mind would think that of her, at least, in my humble opinion. But then again, maybe her definition of a plain housewife is different from mine (shrug). Sidlyon, it is obvious that you just want to jump onto the fray-a chance to bash me-without doing your reading. Did I point my finger at anyone? But let me just reiterate my position about empathy for YOUR benefit-since you did not bother reading my previous posts( but find it necessary to comment). I have no empathy for those who wallow in pain and destruction-and that nobody is empathetic ALL of the time. etc.etc..... No Tami I'm not a basher. It's entirely up to you whether or not you want to consider the OPs suggestions about posting with empathy. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 No Tami I'm not a basher. It's entirely up to you whether or not you want to consider the OPs suggestions about posting with empathy. Of course it is up to me...silly question. Come off it though Sidlyon, you know what you were doing....you were not "just asking a question"-you were passive-aggressively trying to make a point that you were better because you "considered" the OP's point-it is not as if you are actually interested if I did or did not... Again, if you have read my previous posts about my take on empathy you would not have felt the need to ask...but then again...what motivated you to ask was not because you sincerely wanted to know.. Link to post Share on other sites
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