Posting with Empathy

[donnamaybe]

jthorne,

 

Please don't take things out of context. While it may have been said that during the A, usually at the beginning (and you should know this since you had an A for 20 years), there comes a moment in which the AP (doesn't matter whether OP or MP) says my needs at this time overcome my sense of empathy for whom this A may hurt. No doubt, that happens, just as it happened to you.

 

This thread is not about that though, even though it has been explained as an aside.

 

And usually, said AP will come back to their senses and realize there have been people hurt and they hurt also so they come here to post about their inner-struggle. THAT is what this discussion is about, and that is where empathy should be displayed. Hey, we know we're in a mess, but I can't hear you try to help me if you can't show a level of empathy or compassion or heck, just plain old sympathy. If you can't relate, perhaps you (general you) should get off this thread because I (general I) am looking for help.

 

If all you're going to do is snipe, make fun, and try to spoof my character, well, they have other places to do that. But I came here for SUPPORT, not to be made fun of.

 

I am empathetic on a daily basis in most every area in my life and if I can't be that, I can at least be compassionate or sympathetic.

 

So you can take your last question and focus my entire life based on that one moment I decided to throw caution into the wind, or you can see me for the entire me which is nothing like that at all.

 

And FWIW, I don't judge you for being an OW 4 times longer than I was.

But that's not the situation I believe JT is talking about. She's talking about the blatant "I don't care who I hurt as long as I'm happy" attitude which is a lifelong one for some. You and I BOTH know those people exist as they have been very outspoken on this forum about that stance. They are perfectly welcome to have that attitude, however, don't expect anyone to "empathize" with them as that would be impossible when one cannot wrap their head around that cavalier attitude toward the emotional pain of others.

[jthorne]

But that's not the situation I believe JT is talking about. She's talking about the blatant "I don't care who I hurt as long as I'm happy" attitude which is a lifelong one for some. You and I BOTH know those people exist as they have been very outspoken on this forum about that stance. They are perfectly welcome to have that attitude, however, don't expect anyone to "empathize" with them as that would be impossible when one cannot wrap their head around that cavalier attitude toward the emotional pain of others.

I completely agree with you here, but I don't think that was the real reason for WF's post. I think the real reason was to bring up the 20-year thing. I've stated several times that I overly exaggerated the timeline because someone IRL was reading my posts. So to bring it up over and over again seems rather malicious. Why, I'm not sure. To exploit a perceived weakness, I guess. To me, that is empathy in reverse!

[donnamaybe]

I completely agree with you here, but I don't think that was the real reason for WF's post. I think the real reason was to bring up the 20-year thing. I've stated several times that I overly exaggerated the timeline because someone IRL was reading my posts. So to bring it up over and over again seems rather malicious. Why, I'm not sure. To exploit a perceived weakness, I guess. To me, that is empathy in reverse!

I have noticed a select few posters beat up on you about your history as you've told it. Yeah. That certainly is not posting with empathy.

[skywriter]

I try to post with empathy in all my post. One thing I've always tried to do, is view each poster as a blank slate, meaning, not as a BS, or an AP, OW, OM, all that is not relevant, when I'm reading.

 

More importantly, to me, is the human being typing the post and what they are conveying to me the reader. We're all human at the end of the day.

[Silly_Girl]

:laugh: wow if that is not wearing rose colored glasses. Sorry most people do not see such noble things in the mistresses affair. I think the kid has some really good morals and would think this man is a jerk for not ending is marriage before f$#$ing his mom. I think this kid would seriously wonder why his mom would not wait till he was divorced before jumping in head first. This kid is 14. He knows right from wrong and silly girl has taught him that. He is not going to see an affair through foggy rose colored glasses.

 

Wow gg! Didnt realise you were so passionate. Or invested.

 

This is real life. When he's in a position to understand, he'll know. And I can almost guarantee you he will not think my boyfriend is a jerk. He knows people are for from perfect and good people can falter as well as bad. He understands the world well. He's put up with enough crap from various quarters, I know him better than anyone in the world and cam say with confidence that he is very happy with my choice of boyfriend and that will not change based on him knowing a little more background.

[Silly_Girl]

...and spouse.

 

Thanks for the reminder. Yep! That's the plan.

[Silly_Girl]

By cheating?

 

If that stops him wasting 40 years of her life when they've reached a situatione where neither can bear to even touch the other, and she's only with him in the absence of an alternative, yes, by cheating, if that's what it takes. Better that than the alternative - in MY view.

[greengoddess]

Wow gg! Didnt realise you were so passionate. Or invested.

 

This is real life. When he's in a position to understand, he'll know. And I can almost guarantee you he will not think my boyfriend is a jerk. He knows people are for from perfect and good people can falter as well as bad. He understands the world well. He's put up with enough crap from various quarters, I know him better than anyone in the world and cam say with confidence that he is very happy with my choice of boyfriend and that will not change based on him knowing a little more background.

 

 

so basically he won't care about the fact he was using you for his mistress for so long? So he will not think there is anything wrong with cheating if your marriage is going bad?

 

I thought you were bringing him up with higher standards than that? Don't teach him it is ok to cheat. Don't do that disservice to him and his future wife and family.

[TinaniT]

Have we all agreed yet that it is important to be kind to others even when expressing different view points and that attacking people generally causes more harm than good?

 

I hope.

[Owl]

I would say that the divide may come at: feeling empathy, and empathizing.

 

For instance as an OW, you may feel empathy for the BS, but empathizing would include making actions to lessen her pain, most likely giving up on the MM.

 

(I say this from a purely academic perspective)

 

As Owl's stance on posting goes: he may have feelings of empathy for a poster in question (i.e. he understands that they are happy and perceives it) but by empathizing with them, it could easily be construed as support for their stance and thereby enabling their behaviours that he does not agree with to continue.

 

Call me out if I am wrong, Owl

 

 

This is at least partially correct.

 

I often avoid posting to threads where it appears to me that the "support" being requested is actually a request for validation...for exactly this reason.

 

There are also people that I simply don't get.

 

People who are so firmly wrapped up in what they want to the extent that they don't care who is hurt by their choices or actions, as long as that person isn't a friend or relative.

 

I was raised to believe that living a life at someone else's expense and pain is wrong. Yes, I know we all do it to some extent, and there are tons of spiffy arguments about how evil western civilization is and we live at the expense of others. But the bottom line is that in the things that are directly within my scope of control, it's wrong to do something "for me" if I know that it will cause someone else emotional trauma and distress.

 

That's why there are a couple of OW posters (past and present) that I simply can't "get".

 

Their stance on this is a polar opposite of mine.

 

I try to look at it from their viewpoint, but for me, doing something like that is so far different from my viewpoint that it's extremely difficult for me to even start to do.

 

So maybe I'm the opposite of what I thought I was...I sympathize for those that are in pain...but can't empathize for those that don't care that they're contributing to another's pain to get something for themselves?

 

I dunno.

 

Don't think I can explain much more than I have.

[Owl]

Owl, if I posted and said 'hey, these are the reasons I am happy with my situation...' and listed them all, you would say 'no, I can't understand why, I cannot begin to see how you can be happy; I think your reasons are therefore wrong... unless you want to change your life I cannot understand your reasoning or your feelings'. Even if my reasons were the most convincing and honorable in the world (let's say) would you still say you just 'do not get it'?

 

OK...so tell me...what would really, truly, straight up be your reasoning for doing so?

 

For coming to LS and posting all the reasons your happy...WHY would you do this?

 

What does it change, or do for you?

 

No one does anything for "no reason"...but they often don't ever THINK about why they do something.

 

Personal experience and long time posting here and on other sites has shown me that most of the time when people post something like you described above, they're either trying to convince themselves that everything is wonderful in their world (when it isn't), or they're seeking validation/confirmation from others that everything is wonderful.

 

Again...if it's not for those reasons...I don't "get" it.

[Owl]

When you are happy and in love you want to shout it from the rooftops!

 

Q.E.D. Exactly.

[Silly_Girl]

so basically he won't care about the fact he was using you for his mistress for so long? So he will not think there is anything wrong with cheating if your marriage is going bad?

 

I thought you were bringing him up with higher standards than that? Don't teach him it is ok to cheat. Don't do that disservice to him and his future wife and family.

 

Compassion, wisdom, empathy and his own experiences within his own family unit will lead him to his own conclusion. Not some anonymous posters on a forum who do not appear to have those traits at times, and have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of the individuals in question.

[Owl]

Compassion, wisdom, empathy and his own experiences within his own family unit will lead him to his own conclusion. Not some anonymous posters on a forum who do not appear to have those traits at times, and have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of the individuals in question.

 

I've gotta say that I really don't care for the off hand insult apparent in the bolded statement.

[donnamaybe]

I've gotta say that I really don't care for the off hand insult apparent in the bolded statement.

And just as I was saying I hope the posting style doesn't become such.

[Silly_Girl]

I've gotta say that I really don't care for the off hand insult apparent in the bolded statement.

 

Owl, you surprise me. Don't recall seeing a post like that from you and yet many MANY insulting and provocative posts have emanated from this thread and generated nothing at all from you. That makes me sad.

[Owl]

Owl, you surprise me. Don't recall seeing a post like that from you and yet many MANY insulting and provocative posts have emanated from this thread and generated nothing at all from you. That makes me sad.

 

I'm sorry if that makes you sad.

 

Perhaps yours caught my eye quicker than the others because to some degree I felt included in the "group" you describe. I'm a BS, just like the majority of those that this comment was aimed at.

 

Being peripherally associated with the target of the insult, I wanted to point out that I didn't like the insult.

 

You raise a good point...and I'll tell you that I don't care for any of those other insults thrown around on this forum, aimed at OW or MM/MW or whatever. I dislike those and find them offensive too...but since those weren't "aimed" in my general direction, I tend to stand back and let others fight their own battles...I'm not the forum police.

 

But since it was aimed at the group I'm somewhat associated with...I spoke up in "my" defense.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm sorry if that makes you sad.

 

Perhaps yours caught my eye quicker than the others because to some degree I felt included in the "group" you describe. I'm a BS, just like the majority of those that this comment was aimed at.

 

Being peripherally associated with the target of the insult, I wanted to point out that I didn't like the insult.

 

You raise a good point...and I'll tell you that I don't care for any of those other insults thrown around on this forum, aimed at OW or MM/MW or whatever. I dislike those and find them offensive too...but since those weren't "aimed" in my general direction, I tend to stand back and let others fight their own battles...I'm not the forum police.

 

But since it was aimed at the group I'm somewhat associated with...I spoke up in "my" defense.

 

It wasn't aimed at you, Owl.

[donnamaybe]

It wasn't aimed at you, Owl.

Perhaps you should be more specific then so people you aren't trying to insult aren't insulted. Or perhaps I am included in that little grouping merely because I am unable to empathize with those people who don't care who they stomp on to get what they want.

[donnamaybe]

And, yet, the people who do the relentless stomping over innocent folks get a free pass.

 

Empathy. Yeah, that's it. Empathy.

[jthorne]

Well, color me confused! If we are all just "anonymous posters on a forum" then why do so many OW cry that their feelings are hurt, and post ad nauseum about how (empathetically and otherwise) others should post?

Why take things so personally?

[Silly_Girl]

Perhaps you should be more specific then so people you aren't trying to insult aren't insulted. Or perhaps I am included in that little grouping merely because I am unable to empathize with those people who don't care who they stomp on to get what they want.

 

Donna, you are certainly one who has said things like 'we don't need to specify we all "know" who we're talking about'.

 

So no, I shall take yours and jthorne's lead here. But I think that reading this thread should make it VERY clear (and I can't even quote them, because I've put most of those on Ignore )

[Silly_Girl]

Well, color me confused! If we are all just "anonymous posters on a forum" then why do so many OW cry that their feelings are hurt, and post ad nauseum about how (empathetically and otherwise) others should post?

Why take things so personally?

 

I can assure you I have shed no tears. I may choose to challenge your views because I find them hostile and closed-minded, but that doesn't mean I am taking them personally.

[jthorne]

I can assure you I have shed no tears. I may choose to challenge your views because I find them hostile and closed-minded, but that doesn't mean I am taking them personally.

Then why do you suppose there are all these threads about how people should post?

[Silly_Girl]

Then why do you suppose there are all these threads about how people should post?

 

Why? From my point of view? Because a lot of good stuff is buried. Because people are rude and pepper their posts with thinly-veiled vicious sideswipes. Because we can do better. Because it detracts when posters come here desperate for good support. Because it's an board for "those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." and lots of posters come here to bash, or who don't belong to the group mentioned at the top of the board. And other reasons.

 

I can oppose the bashing even if I don't feel it personally, can't I? Especially seeing as I have empathy for those who do feel ganged up on, or unable to talk straight for fear of generating negative attention.