Posting with Empathy

[Silly_Girl]

I think that you are the one who needs to explain your presence certain places, not me.

 

If you are interested, I am happy to explain why I post on this board. No problemo my friend. Just curious as to what brings YOU here. On a thread about Empathy.

[WorldIsYours]

It's one thing to play these kind of mind games with your affair partner; or when posting here; but with your own son??? You set up a completely unrealistic straw man situation (virtually zero burglars nowadays do it to feed their tiny children, and you know that), to prove what? That your level of ethical development is superior to that of a 14 year old child? Guess what, it backfired. You're just trying to rationalize/justify bad (in your example, actually criminal) behavior. That's "thinkin' like a cheater," silly girl. But man....doing it with your own son. Incredible.

 

 

 

 

Why wouldn't he? A typical 14 year old can understand that someone who feels they desperately need money might take desperate measures. There are bad guys in comic books, right?

 

What he grasps, even as a 14 year old, and yet you fail to, as a adult, is that a perception of a supposedly desperate need to commit bad acts does not render those bad acts acceptable. They are still bad acts, no matter what the wrong-doer's rationalization for them. All you are really saying is that you can construct a hypothetical scenario in which "the ends justifies the means." (A true life or death situation, perhaps, but your example was not a true life or death situation.) Maybe. But participating in an extramarital affair, either as the MP or the OP, certainly isn't one of them.

 

 

THAT'S empathy, or pretty close to it. At least, "understading." Right there.

 

 

 

 

THAT'S knowing the difference between "right" and "wrong." Obviously the boy learned it from somewhere, thankfully.

 

Letting the bad guy keep the fruits of his criminality is NOT "empathy." It's mind boggling that you would try to imply that "empathy" is the same thing as "acquiescing in wrongful conduct." Just more evidence showing you have no real grasp of what "empathy" means. A person either gets it, or they don't. Cheaters, by and large, just don't seem to "get it."

 

 

 

 

 

You don't know what "compassion" means. It does NOT mean you let a criminal retain the fruits of their bad behavior. I notice you left out the part where you asked your son, "OK, obviously the bad guy has to return what he stole from you. Now, son, do you think society should still try to help his children? How could we go about doing that?" If your son responded "Nah let 'em starve" then and only then might you have a basis to accuse your son of a lack of empathy or compassion. But I take it, you didn't get that far, because your intention was not to have a genuine discussion of a moral dilemma with your son.

 

The fact that your son would like his property returned does NOT mean he lacks compassion for the robber. The straw man you fabricated was that the children of the robber need food to eat. Yet nothing you asked your son even addressed that specific issue: feeding those kids.

 

Everything you asked was part of a manipulated conversation to try to "prove" that 1) it's OK for a bad person to do something very bad if s/hecan fabricate a guilt-inducing rationalization for it ("robber's children starving; married man so unhappy, his wife is a shrew"); 2) if the victim doesn't acquiesce to being victimized, the victim lacks compassion because the wrong doer's rationalization must be accepted at face value, and there are no possible "less bad" alternative paths the wrong doer could have taken; 3) 14 year olds since they are young are ignorant of compassion, and therefore, the reaction of my 14 year old to such a hypothetical by definition reflects a lack of compassion; 4) anyone who reacts to a similar situation the same way my 14 year old reacted (i.e. not acquiescing to the crime) also lacks compassion.

 

 

 

 

He knows, and apparently accepts, the difference between "right" and "wrong." You, apparently, do not. He is more ethically and morally mature and developed than you are (based on the example you just gave).

 

Obviously you dispense with those pesky "rules" that are an inconvenience to you, because you don't "get it." That's why you can find a justification for being in an EMA and why you have little trouble justifying robbery and even being critical of your own son even though his responses to your questions were perfectly reasonable ones.

 

I take it you have never told your son you are the other person in an EMA? You are having sex with a married man? In effect, you are the "robber" with respect to your MM''s betrayed spouse ("robbing" their relationship)? The "robber" is obviously you, and you didn't just steel an Ipad, did you? Was your 14 year old son starving, therefore, you needed to have an affair with a married man in order to feed him?

 

Why didn't you simply, and honestly, tell your son the truth about your affair, explained whatever your reasons are for having it, and then asked him whether he had compassion for you vs. the betrayed spouse? That would be an interesting conversation actually. Would you accuse your son of a lack of compassion if he criticized you and felt compassion for the betrayed spouse of your affair?

 

 

 

 

Neither of you have empathy for his wife. If either of you had empathy for the wife, you wouldn't be having an affair with each other.

 

 

 

 

That's not "empathy." That's inner conflict on your part, because you know that what you're doing is "wrong," but you are too selfish to do what's "right"--stay out of the affair.

 

 

 

 

That's not true, because by definition, you are in a dysfunctional relationship right now--an extra marital affair with a married person. What you are doing is not "new and good," it's "bad."

 

Cheaters turn "good" into "bad" and "bad" into "good." It's OK to be a robber, it's OK to be a cheater, "right" and "wrong" are just pesky "rules" that we can disregard if they are inconvenient.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what I meant by "walking the walk." Your behavior displays a total lack of empathy towards the betrayed spouse, and your conversation with your son demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of not only empathy, but of the difference between right and wrong, which your son grasps, but you do not.

 

 

 

 

 

Bad is good. Wrong is right. Dysfunctional is healthy. The worst thing that can happen in a relationship (affair of your partner) is the "BEST" thing.

 

 

 

 

 

So your letter of reference as to your empathy, is from your affair partner?

 

Are you kidding? No, of course not. You actually expect people to buy this? The endorsement of the guy you are cheating with is something that is worth a plugged nickel?

 

 

 

 

 

You not only tried them on for size, you ripped them off of her feet, without her consent. Maybe you should go out and get your own pair of shoes. Did that ever occur to you? Wait no--you identify with the Ipad robber. Obtaining something by honest means--shoes, an Ipad, an available boyfriend--just doesn't have any thrill to it, does it?

 

 

 

 

Wow, the problem with your "character reference" is he is decidedly lacking in character himself. You really don't get it, do you? You really can't distinguish right from wrong.

 

 

 

 

No one's lavishing blanket insults against OW here on the board. You have nothing to "resent." Or, stop cheating, and you won't be an OW anymore. Then you don't have to worry about whatever it is that you perceive to be "insults against OW."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having sexual or intense emotional relations with someone else's spouse is what is "nasty." But you don't think it is, you think it's wonderful. "Bad" is "good." "Wrong" is "right."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice, manipulative turn around. But you only talked about your son in terms of his imagined lack of compassion for a criminal. Now somehow you're implying that between the two of you, you have a higher moral or ethical position than he does. Even though you're the cheater who doesn't seem to know right from wrong, and he's an innocent 14 year old who seemingly does.

 

The brilliance of children and their advanced minds. Funny how a teen is more morally developed than his own parent, especially after she tried to manipulate him and use her twisted conversations with him for her selfish behavior! That is why participants of infidelity are not fit to take care of their kids. Lord bless them all.

[tami-chan]

I do have a hard time resolving a plea for empathy from those whose own behavior is so very self-entitled and self-centered.

 

It is a bit nervy to expect it when their whole situation is based on having none themselves. I mean what do the words "cheater" and "betrayed" mean to you? But then "nervy" is kind of just a starting point on that. Nah, not with it, sorry.

 

This is where one has to separate the poster from the emotions that he/she is feeling. According to the TOS, we must respond to the issues presented not to the poster, per se. I admit, it is a difficult thing to do. So that if a person posts something like : "I am an OW and I am devastated because my MM broke up with me...what should I do to move on?"...there are about 3 people(BSs, I believe-owl, wwiu, dot) who would consistently respond with a good advise, disregarding the fact that she is an OW and then there are those who would say "well, you deserve to be dumped, did you really think he will leave his wife for you? "....or something to that effect.

 

The question then is, why would anyone respond to a post like that if one is incapable of empathizing with her pain? I know, it is a public forum and anybody is free to respond .... still...

 

I know when I read a thread and it is about somebody's constant suffering for years and year about the same situation, I just can't even finish reading the post. I am incapable of empathizing with people who do not do anything to change their lives. I just feel like saying, "look, use the remaining brain cells in your head and figure something out to get out of that hell hole you call living".

[dreamingoftigers]

Really I don't think there should even be a board for "support" of cheaters. It legitimizes some really nasty, wrong behavior that people have no right to engage in. Why not a board to support wife beaters or a board to support thieves then? I find it all distasteful, honestly.

 

 

Whether or not you think that there should be one or not does not negate the fact that there is and you are on it.

 

I am not a WS or OW just for the record.

 

There are also boards for other types of behaviours that you consider distasteful, most likely including those with rage problems (now THAT would be an interesting board!) and people who have criminal issues.

 

The board is for support and discussion.

[Silly_Girl]

Wow, aren't you very very very concerned with others being where you believe they have a right to be. This is an open forum, unlike most marriages, princess.

 

Not 'very very very', no. You seemed traumatised. Obviously it's not as distasteful to you as you claimed.

 

Have fun!

[WorldIsYours]

Oh dear, here we go, nice to see you again

 

It's not mind games AT ALL. My son studies religion at school, and is on the debating team for his year. This stuff is good for him. He brings up a lot more in that vein than I ever could think up. I am interested as to why so many people are preaching about definitions they don't understand, and was interested as to whether my 14 yr old son was more evolved than some posters.

 

It wasn't rationalising. Why would you say that? If I was rationalising I'd surely say the burglar was right? And justify bad behaviour?

 

What DOES compassion mean, please? Enlighten me. You're quick to rubbish my views, but not so quick to share... And what does empathy mean?

 

What did he, at 14 yrs old, miss out on then?

 

If you weren;t there, how ON EARTH do you know it was a manipulated conversation? Are you in my dining room???

 

How was I critical of him?

 

I certainly have not spoken to my son about the state of my bf's relationship when we met. It is none of his business. I also didn't talk to him about my previous bf's previous relationships. Not sure why you would expect that.

 

I have never once suggested my bf had empathy for his wife. Another twist on your part.

 

It's funny when someone "confronts" you on your posts you "act" like you don't understand what they're "talking about."

 

I feel sad for you, that you have such feeling about new relationships being tainted.

 

He's actually saying he feels sorry for you that you will lower your self-worth and respect by associating with a married man and hurting an innocent wife in the process, instead of being the mature mother and finding a real boyfriend.

 

Doesn't leave much hope for you finding happiness in the future, does it?

 

If I can find true happiness with someone instead of hurting others and risking my life by cheating, so can he.

 

Why are you so threatened by the fact I am proud of my relationship?

 

No one is threatened by the duration of your fling, which will run out shortly. And you're not proud, you just like the temporary selfish situation you're in.

[tami-chan]

I'm finding the Bitter Argument really old and useless against the cold hard truth. And I'm good by the way Tami, since it's just itching on the back of your throat to know how I'm doing.

 

Oh sweetie, I don't know what you are experiencing-bitterness or what not..but it is evident that you have a lot of negative emotions that is boiling over...it's ok..but like I said...might be a good investment to see a Psychiatrist.

[Silly_Girl]

But you're leaving out the most important part.

 

Did your mom, sister, two bfs tell you they thought your affair was a smart or good or wise choice on your part?

 

Obviously not--if they had told you, you'd be providing their "endorsement" of your behavior to us.

 

None of them wanted to see me be hurt or let down, all of them felt/feel we are a fantastic match and have done entirely the right thing.

 

Sorry - that was the wrong answer wasn't it?!!?

[tami-chan]

Really I don't think there should even be a board for "support" of cheaters. It legitimizes some really nasty, wrong behavior that people have no right to engage in. Why not a board to support wife beaters or a board to support thieves then? I find it all distasteful, honestly.

 

Well, there is a forum for them and it is here on LS. I think you need to take up your personal problem with it to the site owners and see what they would do about it. Until then YOU CAN CHOOSE to either engage or not engage....nobody is forcing you to read what the participants are posting about.

[dreamingoftigers]

I have one question for WIY and SE.

 

I understand and agree with an anti-infidelity stance.

 

I also agree that no one "should" enter into an affair and that there isn't a justification for it.

 

But what does one do when they realize that they have taken the wrong path and caused considerable damage? What do they do five years after that initial point in follow-up and what does the rest of their life look like?

 

Should they ever be in a relationship again if their marriage ended because of it?

 

And are BSs who try to work things out taking the wrong approach in your opinions?

 

What should an MM/MW and OW/OM do after the affair has ended?

 

I am just curious to know what your thoughts and perspectives are.

[dreamingoftigers]

OH yeah, you can PM it to me if you want, or when you get capabilities if you don't have them, really just would like to know.

[BB07]

I have one question for WIY and SE.

 

I understand and agree with an anti-infidelity stance.

 

I also agree that no one "should" enter into an affair and that there isn't a justification for it.

 

But what does one do when they realize that they have taken the wrong path and caused considerable damage? What do they do five years after that initial point in follow-up and what does the rest of their life look like?

 

Should they ever be in a relationship again if their marriage ended because of it?

 

And are BSs who try to work things out taking the wrong approach in your opinions?

 

What should an MM/MW and OW/OM do after the affair has ended?

 

I am just curious to know what your thoughts and perspectives are.

 

Good questions and if they are answered it will shed light on what the one dimensional remarks are about . If not answered then it leads one to conclude it's a personal vendetta/ or act of getting vengeance for some personal wrong.

[dreamingoftigers]

Good questions and if they are answered it will shed light on what the one dimensional remarks are about . If not answered then it leads one to conclude it's a personal vendetta/ or act of getting vengeance for some personal wrong.

 

A lack of evidence does not constitute proof.

[BB07]

A lack of evidence does not constitute proof.

 

 

Well we all have our assumptions.....lol

[dreamingoftigers]

How much empathy when he finds out she's an OW?

 

I think the yard on both sides on the fence needs to be cleaned up.

[WorldIsYours]

Oh sweetie, I don't know what you are experiencing-bitterness or what not..but it is evident that you have a lot of negative emotions that is boiling over...it's ok..but like I said...might be a good investment to see a Psychiatrist.

 

No, it's not evident because there is no negative emotions boiling over. That is just your assumption because you don't agree with the truth.

[dreamingoftigers]

I have one question for WIY and SE.

 

I understand and agree with an anti-infidelity stance.

 

I also agree that no one "should" enter into an affair and that there isn't a justification for it.

 

But what does one do when they realize that they have taken the wrong path and caused considerable damage? What do they do five years after that initial point in follow-up and what does the rest of their life look like?

 

Should they ever be in a relationship again if their marriage ended because of it?

 

And are BSs who try to work things out taking the wrong approach in your opinions?

 

What should an MM/MW and OW/OM do after the affair has ended?

 

I am just curious to know what your thoughts and perspectives are.

 

I guess make that 'some' questions.

[tami-chan]

 

We brag about and publicize that about which we are proud, and we hide that of which we feel shame.

 

Not always true. I hid that fact that I was with an MM from my daughter because I have decided she was too young to process the information( I hid her father's affairs from her, too). I hid the fact that I was with an MM from my H (now ex) -despite the fact, he was a serial cheater waaaayyyy before I ever cheated on him- because he had a temper. Keeping my affair secret was not because of shame, at all...it was because people are intolerant of it and I did not want to deal with the drama it would have created. On the other hand, in my MM's life I was not a secret and his circle accepted me...he and wife were estranged and so there was no drama. Of course, now we are both divorced from our spouses and all is well that ends well.

[Silly_Girl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly_Girl

Oh dear, here we go, nice to see you again

 

Likewise.

 

 

Quote:

It's not mind games AT ALL.

Sorry, but told of us a discussion with your son in which you attempted to imply that he should feel guilt ("the robber's tiny children are starving") to justify allowing himself to be robbed. When he disagreed that the robber should be allowed to keep the stolen item, you accused him of lacking compassion or empathy for the robber (in doing so of course you showed a lack of empathy for your son, the victim of the robber). That's "emotional manipulation" which is "mind games." It has a further mind game aspect that the entire purpose of the discussion was to justify a more generalized argument that cheaters (the "robbers") are entitled to compassion from those they have cheated or participated in cheating on. It had nothing to do with ipads or starving children at all.

 

I didn't imply he should feel guilt. Not once. I asked whether the motivation behind someone's actions should count. It's akin to something he's been studying in drama.

 

I accused him of nothing. Can I just ask - if you have only read in a few sentences, what was about thirty minutes of conversation, how on earth do you think you know - and understand - everything that was said? That's a bit eerie, to me, for you to take such a very aggressive and be so VERY sure of something you can't possibly know. I knew someone like that and he was diagnosed with BPD...

 

At no point did you make a reasoned discussion as to why, or under what circumstances, or with what guidelines, or what standards, might it be sometimes necessary to deviate from ordinarily accepted norms of right and wrong due to extreme, emergency circumstances.

 

And you know this how? And you know what sort of circumstances he raised with me? From his history studies yes? You know all of that???!

 

Dying from snakebite and the doctor's office is locked for the evening? Yes go ahead and throw a rock through the window so you can get the anti-venin. We all understand that. But, you still have to pay for the broken window, and you still have to pay for medication.

 

Your children are starving? OK, why do you need to steal an Ipad? There's no public assistance available? No one you can borrow the money from? As a matter of fact, why not just shoplift the food itself?

 

The iPad was a hot topic because he's not had it long and was talking about wanting to take it to school but being worried it'd get nicked. C'mon!! Do you HAVE kids?

 

And, does the exigency of immediate starvation mean you never have to be held accountable for your theft? You don't have to pay back the victim the value of the loss (which is basically the same thing as returning the stolen item itself?)

 

See, that's why it's a mind game/guilt trip/manipulation by you. Because the entire purpose of the exercise, from your view, was not: "How do we deal with a complicated ethical dilemma in the most fair manner to all involved?" It was: "How can I rationalize bad behavior?" You provided a rationlization (starving children) but you did not address, deal with, or even care about the consequences of your scenario.

Further assumptions. We talked around a lot of different scenarios. Funnily enough, we talked about the obligation (or not) of the starving nations on the western world, and about how someone's portrayal of an issue might be accurate, yet still contradict another accurate version. Tell you what, in one post, tell me EVERYTHING you have done/thought/said today? No? Because it isn't possible.

 

 

Further, you don't go back and look at the roots of the "robber's starving children" problem in the first place. The immediate starvation didn't suddenly happen. It was the consequence of a long period of time and behavior, many bad decisions and irresponsibilities until things got so bad that someone is "forced to steal to provide for his children." So an ethical perspective would look at those things, as well.

 

He's 14, not studying A-level ethics

 

Such as: What can we as moral individuals, try to do, to ensure that we NEVER end up in a place like that robber did? That is, that we never end up in a place where we are "forced to steal" so that our children don't starve? Unless you do that, then your hypothetical is just a waste of time, it's just manipulative.

 

That's exactly what cheaters do NOT do. They don't stop and think about the consequences of their behavior (to themselves, or to others) nor do they stop to think about WHY they got into that position in the first place. How did the cheater get to a point in their lives, where they believe that their best available option for a relationship, is a cheater who is married to someone else? Nope. You can't, and don't want to think about that stuff, because it would require a deep, insightful and most likely very painful self-examination.

 

I have done a lot of that. Feel free to go back and read.

 

Quote:

My son studies religion at school, and is on the debating team for his year. This stuff is good for him.

OK thank you. Now I know where he is learning "right" and "wrong" from.

Maybe a little of "this stuff" (formal education in "right" and "wrong", morality and ethics) would be good for you, too?

 

 

Quote:

He brings up a lot more in that vein than I ever could think up. I am interested as to why so many people are preaching about definitions they don't understand, and was interested as to whether my 14 yr old son was more evolved than some posters.

He is definitely more evolved than at least one poster here.

 

Way more than one.

 

 

 

Quote:

It wasn't rationalising. Why would you say that? If I was rationalising I'd surely say the burglar was right? And justify bad behaviour?

So now you are saying the burglar was wrong? Then your son was right. "Rules are rules." Stealing is wrong. And your son does not lack compassion, not based on what you said before.

 

 

Quote:

What DOES compassion mean, please? Enlighten me. You're quick to rubbish my views, but not so quick to share... And what does empathy mean?

It means the ability of a person to understand (for example) why they should not have an affair with a married person out of consideration for the feelings of the married person's spouse. You know that your cheater's spouse does not think the affair is a good thing, but you do not care, because you believe it is the "BEST" thing for her marriage. Empathy and compassion would mean that you realize her opinion takes precedence over yours.

 

I believe that her affair and his were BOTH for the best. They ought not have been married. But because her MM dumped her, she came back.

 

And why should her opinion take precedence over mine in order for me to have either empathy or compassion? Seems an odd assumption...

 

 

No one can ever explain empathy and compassion to you, because you are incapable of understanding it, at least by what you have posted in this thread.

 

 

Quote:

What did he, at 14 yrs old, miss out on then?

He didn't miss out on anything, nor did I say he did. I clearly said that he "gets it" and it's you who missed out. In fact I stated this so clearly that there is no way you could have misunderstood what I was saying. You are deliberately pretending that I said the opposite of what I actually said in my earlier post. Again not very surprising.

 

 

Quote:

If you weren;t there, how ON EARTH do you know it was a manipulated conversation? Are you in my dining room???

Because you repeated the conversation or its pertinent contents in your prior post. I don't have to personally be there if you are going to post it right here, and you did.

 

You have tried to tell me what WASN'T said, based on my sharing things that WERE said. That doesn't work.

 

Quote:

How was I critical of him?

You either stated or implied that he lacked compassion because he objected to being victimized by a robber. You also mocked him because he believed that "rules are rules." IOW you mocked him for believing that the ability to distinguish right and wrong has a value. But again you know this. Why are you pretending you didn't do exactly that which you did, fully intending to do so?

 

How did I imply he lacked compassion - please quote me. How did I mock him - please point out which words mocked him. He is more black and white than I, he is also an amazing young person. I have no need or inclination to mock him for his views on these matters. I think you are attempting to see things that aren't there, to satisfy yourself.

 

Quote:

I certainly have not spoken to my son about the state of my bf's relationship when we met.

Once again you are deliberately and misleadingly "reframing". I never said that you should talk about that with your son. I asked you if you had discussed your own affair that you were having, with your son. Again you know that is exactly what I asked you. Are you saying your bf is no longer married, in the present (not when you first met him)?

He's separated. They both list themselves on all legal paperwork as separated and neither wear a ring. Where we live that's sufficient to show there is no relationship, except in law.

So we are to take it that your son doesn't know that your bf is a married man? Or you are seeing this guy on the sly and your son doesn't even know of his existence? Healthy relationships don't require you to engage in so much deception.

 

My son doesn't know he was married when we met. He will one day, but it was a long time before I was sure this man would be a permanent fixture and so the details were not my son's concern. My previous SO had an older daughter and my son did not know of her existence for years, for the same reasons, despite him being very close to my ex-SO's younger children.

 

Do you share everything with your children then? Could you possibly expand so I can understand your motivation behind that?

Quote:

It is none of his business.

 

It's not? Are you serious? The man you are spending so much time with--your bf--that's no business of your son? O.K. If you say so. Why is what you and your son discussed any business of yours to display at LS, in the first place? It's not. But you did. The reason you did was to make a point about why critics of cheaters should show empathy for cheaters. Because they are like ipad robbers with starving children to feed. Except they aren't.

 

I chatted to someone in my real life and came back here and discussed it. Could you explain why you feel the need to comment on that? I have seen you display no personal details whatsoever (which I find disconcerting on a board like this in any case). So the fact I choose to is irrelevant, but you and I are different there.

 

 

 

Quote:

I also didn't talk to him about my previous bf's previous relationships. Not sure why you would expect that.

 

I didn't. I asked you if you have been honest with your son (since you are so fond of discussing moral and ethical dilemmas with him) about your real-life moral and ethical dilemma, that is, your affair with a married man.

 

Dilemmas. Exactly. Hypothetical. I didn't ask him for advice. There are other matters he doesn't yet know about, that I will tell him when he is older and less unsettled. Things he actually needs to know (as opposed to this marital status issue, which is just noise, as far as HIS life is concerned).

 

 

That would seem to be a lot more relevant than some conjured up fabrication about an ipad thief with starving children.

 

 

Quote:

I have never once suggested my bf had empathy for his wife. Another twist on your part.

OK now we finally agree on something. Your bf doesn't have empathy for his wife. IOW, he's a pig.

 

Ah, no he's not. But you think that of him, that's fine. I suspect there are those who think the same of you.

 

And that's who you're in a relationship with. It's also the person who you earlier used as your "letter of reference" as to the extent of your empathy for his wife. So the guy who you now say has no empathy for his wife (obviously, he's cheating on her, we didn't need you to tell us that) is a reliable indicator of whether the woman he's cheating with, has the empathy that he lacks? OK think I got it now.

He doesn't because she put him through a lot. Unfairly. And he stuck with it believing that was the done thing. And as a result she has seriously taken advantage of him over the years.

 

Quote:

I feel sad for you, that you have such feeling about new relationships being tainted. Doesn't leave much hope for you finding happiness in the future, does it?

"New relationships" aren't tainted. YOUR relationship is tainted, because you're cheating with a married man who, by your own acknowledgment, lacks any empathy for his betrayed wife. This is a relationship that you are actually so ashamed of that you can't even tell your own son about it, or at least about its true extent (he may know you're seeing this guy but not know the guy has a wife).

 

I can assure you there is nothing shameful about this relationship.

 

Quote:

Why are you so threatened by the fact I am proud of my relationship?

Not threatened, where did you get that?

 

And, you are clearly not "proud," which is why you are keeping it a secret from your son.

 

What could be more obvious?

 

We brag about and publicize that about which we are proud, and we hide that of which we feel shame.

 

Glad you don't feel I am bragging when I post here about how happy I am, that's good.

 

Can I ask - do you feel that you are able to be empathetic towards others? And do you think you can be empathetic towards me even if you can condemn my actions?

[tami-chan]

No, it's not evident because there is no negative emotions boiling over. That is just your assumption because you don't agree with the truth.

 

I am glad you are ok in your world of denial.....carry on...perhaps on a different username?

[Silly_Girl]

Obviously her attitude towards his religious/moral education seemed to be like she thought it wasn't worth too much.

 

Odds are that either the kids' father, or perhaps some other extended family member, went to the mat for this kid to pay for this instruction because they knew his mom wasn't going to teach him stuff like ethics and morality.

 

Would you do me the courtesy of telling me what that second para means, in English?

Thanks

 

As for my son's emotional and moral education, his behaviour is exemplary. He is a mentor at school, he was asked to informally coach a couple of kids in primary school because he has been through a divorce and was very well-adjusted. A boy whose mum took him out of school because he was a victim of bullying was buddied up with my son for his first fortnight back, and he thrived. My son won a role-model award on a recent school trip (only 3 out of 50 boys did) and he kind, considerate and thoughtful. Given that his father pays him little or no attention, I am more than happy to take credit for the wonderful young man I have raised.

 

With respect, you know a lot less than you would like to claim you know.

[Silly_Girl]

There's a handful of attention-seekers and it's such a shame, because it seemed to be a really good thread.

[WorldIsYours]

I have one question for WIY and SE.

 

I understand and agree with an anti-infidelity stance.

 

I also agree that no one "should" enter into an affair and that there isn't a justification for it.

 

Okay.

 

But what does one do when they realize that they have taken the wrong path and caused considerable damage?

 

They get out of it and go into confession for their sins. Exfiltrating the situation, keeping NC, stop trying to rationalize their affair and learn from their destruction is paramount.

 

What do they do five years after that initial point in follow-up and what does the rest of their life look like?

 

The aftermath and the rest of their life depends on them as it has always been. As long as they don't cause trouble by engaging in infidelity, the world will be a better place.

 

Should they ever be in a relationship again if their marriage ended because of it?

 

As long as they aren't participating in infidelity and actually learned from their damage then all should be well.

 

And are BSs who try to work things out taking the wrong approach in your opinions?

 

Hey they're taking their own risk by trying reconciliation, but a lot of BSs who stay think they're higher than other BSs (because they believe the stupid crap their WS feeds them) who wish to leave their WS, and imply or call them bitter (and others who think bad about cheaters. it's almost like they've become wayward spouses themselves because they're so soaked in their deniability). They come on the board telling a BS who just find out he got cheated on "Don't be bitter man, just do it for the kids and accept her sloppy seconds," and it's like what type of advice is that???

 

What should an MM/MW and OW/OM do after the affair has ended?

 

The MM/MW need to tell their spouse and everyone they know, they cheated and divorce them so the BS can find someone who won't cheat on them, and the OW/OM need to back off forever, go NC, own their sh*t 100%, go into confession and continue living their lives without helping in the destruction of relationships.

 

I am just curious to know what your thoughts and perspectives are.

 

Ah well now you have mine.

[WorldIsYours]

Well we all have our assumptions.....lol

 

And you think I'm the one who's "narrow-minded.":rolleyes:

[tami-chan]

The MM/MW need to tell their spouse and everyone they know, they cheated and divorce them so the BS can find someone who won't cheat on them, and the OW/OM need to back off forever, go NC, own their sh*t 100%, go into confession and continue living their lives without helping in the destruction of relationships..

 

Ok so , there is no reconciling or repairing the marriage after there was cheating, right? To you, divorce is the answer. BUT, do you care then if the affair partners end up together, would you encourage that-as, in "they deserve each other" kind of "encouragement? Or you just do not think anybody should end up with anybody at this point?