Posting with Empathy

[BB07]

snip, snip, snip, snip

 

You never did tell me what you thought I should have done AFTER the fact, you just took another opportunity to berate me some more with the same old, same old that you spout off to everyone. You just enjoy picking apart everything I say to try to prove that I'm an evil cheating baitch.

 

Oh and I hope the BS's who reconciled see your little comments about what you really think of them. I'm sure that will score you some points.

 

Who are you going to preach to when everyone puts you on ignore? Oh I forgot, you'll just create another identify but wait......maybe next time you'll be blocked in other ways. Maybe Tami was right in suggesting you get yourself a checkup.

[WorldIsYours]

You never did tell me what you thought I should have done AFTER the fact, you just took another opportunity to berate me some more with the same old, same old that you spout off to everyone.

 

Didn't you read my last reply to you? I said what you should've done!

 

You just enjoy picking apart everything I say to try to prove that I'm an evil cheating baitch.

 

I'm not even going to say what I really feel about this.

 

Oh and I hope the BS's who reconciled see your little comments about what you really think of them. I'm sure that will score you some points.

 

Oh my god! I'm so scared for my life! They're going to respond to my "little" comments! Help me!

 

Who are you going to preach to when everyone puts you on ignore?

 

I don't care who puts me on ignore. Everyone's not going to do that anyway. I'm pretty sure with your comments you're on people's ignore list already.

 

Oh I forgot, you'll just create another identify but wait......maybe next time you'll be blocked in other ways.

 

Your assumptions are out of this world. Maybe you need to be on my ignore list, but then again I like schooling a middle-aged woman.

 

Maybe Tami was right in suggesting you get yourself a checkup.

 

I already got myself checked when I found out my ex cheated. I have a clean bill of health. Ask these folks on here who are currently participating in a nasty affair I'll bet at least one of them has something that's currently eating up their vagina, while thinking the "love" they feel is "so real." So much for love, eh?

[dreamingoftigers]

I already got myself checked when I found out my ex cheated. I have a clean bill of health. Ask these folks on here who are currently participating in a nasty affair I'll bet at least one of them has something that's currently eating up their vagina, while thinking the "love" they feel is "so real." So much for love, eh?

 

That's pretty gross.

[WorldIsYours]

That's pretty gross.

 

But it's the cold hard truth, and that is why affairs are never a good thing. Folks don't want to listen past their selfishness but when it starts to sting when they pee, all of sudden it's a problem to them now.

[BB07]

So WIY.....I took some parts of a couple of your posts because I wanted to make a point.

 

Hey're taking their own risk by trying reconciliation, but a lot of BSs who stay think they're higher than other BSs (because they believe the stupid crap their WS feeds them) who wish to leave their WS, and imply or call them bitter (and others who think bad about cheaters. it's almost like they've become wayward spouses themselves because they're so soaked in their deniability). They come on the board telling a BS who just find out he got cheated on "Don't be bitter man, just do it for the kids and accept her sloppy seconds," and it's like what type of advice is that???

So you not only have a case of it for the OW's, you also voice your disgust at the BS who reconciles.

 

 

 

Your assumptions are out of this world. Maybe you need to be on my ignore list, but then again I like schooling a middle-aged woman.

Nice try on the attempt at the little insult about my age.

 

 

I already got myself checked when I found out my ex cheated. I have a clean bill of health. Ask these folks on here who are currently participating in a nasty affair I'll bet at least one of them has something that's currently eating up their vagina, while thinking the "love" they feel is "so real." So much for love, eh?

Maybe while you were there you should have considered some counseling as you seem to have some issues with women in particular.

[tami-chan]

 

Maybe while you were there you should have considered some counseling as you seem to have some issues with women in particular.

 

 

Oh..so I was right, he is a man after all? I actually couldn't believe that a "decent' woman would use words like he does

[desertIslandCactus]

Whatever your reasons for hiding it from your daughter--shame, shamelessness, deception, not wanting your own child to be exposed to bad behavior--the explanation you provided is self-contradictory and therefore can't be correct.

 

If she's too young to process the information about your affair, that means she wouldn't understand it. If she doesn't understand it, it can't have any effect on her one way or the other if you did disclose it to her.

 

Now what you may really mean is, she would have understood what an affair is, and that it is bad behavior; and the part that she would not have been able to process is your rationalizations for engaging in it. "Process" meaing: "buy into." Sounds like about the same justification Silly has for not telling her son, either.

 

 

OK, but I can't see that that's better than at least having a healthy sense of shame.

 

OK it sounds like you just didn't want to expose your child either to your or your ex's bad behavior. That's fine, but it's the effective equivalent of "shame" even if you don't want to call it that. You didn't tell your kid because she would have thought less of you (and of your ex for his a's). That's "shame" right there.

 

 

Silly Girl never said she was worried that her son might abuse her if she told him about her affair, so this is not relevant.

 

 

OK first you tried to justify hiding it to protect your kid (which is understandable but still not contradicting "shame"), now it's "people" who are intolerant. Yup. That's "shame." "Shame" is the feeling you have due to other people looking down upon your conduct. ("Guilt" is what you feel internally but is not dependent on anyone else knowing about what you did.) "Shame" is the social aspect. When you don't publicize your bad conduct because you are afraid of what other people will think or how they will react in response, that is about as pretty close to a definition of "shame" as there is going to be.

 

 

Right. His social circle was not your social circle, so you had no sense of shame when your affair was exposed to his circle. (You were, literally, the "shameless" OW.)

 

By the way have you ever told your child about your affair? If not when do you think she will be old enough to "process"?

 

Or, if a parent's lifestyle lacks the simplicity to be explained to a five year old, it is perhaps - unsuitable behavior.

[BB07]

Oh..so I was right, he is a man after all? I actually couldn't believe that a "decent' woman would use words like he does

 

Well I'm not positive but it seems to be a pretty safe assumption. Women don't talk like that, nor would a woman say things like this example "while your wife was riding the OM" to a hurting BS would they? I mean........who the hell needs a picture painted like that?

[tami-chan]

Or, if a parent's lifestyle lacks the simplicity to be explained to a five year old, it is perhaps - unsuitable behavior.

 

Perhaps, but it was more than that. It is appropriateness- after all a child's belief system/values...etc...is formed not only by the parents, but by society as a whole...thus, if the child is told that there must only be one dad and one mom and that dad should only kiss mom- to introduce a third person is perhaps a lot to ask from a child to understand and accept especially if the norm is inconsistent to that.

 

Maybe you are one of those people who do not care about telling your kids how bad your WS is(and maybe he was)...but that is not me. Maybe you are one of those who cannot go beyond your anger and disgust no matter if your child would understand it or not but that is not me. I am an adult, I am able to deal with adult issues. My child is well...a child-she lacked the maturity to understand adult issues.

 

My xH and I were (still are) united in our desire to separate our daughter from our issues. Difficult choices and commitments were made in reference to raising her- in the end, we both are happy with her and she with us...

[desertIslandCactus]

Perhaps, but it was more than that. It is appropriateness- after all a child's belief system/values...etc...is formed not only by the parents, but by society as a whole...thus, if the child is told that there must only be one dad and one mom and that dad should only kiss mom- to introduce a third person is perhaps a lot to ask from a child to understand and accept especially if the norm is inconsistent to that.

 

This is actually the way it should be, and to be a pretty simple world.

 

Maybe you are one of those people who do not care about telling your kids how bad your WS is(and maybe he was)...but that is not me.

 

No, he did it himself. He was a great father during the formative years - then blew it with the help of the jealous OW/turned W. Hurt his sons directly, all by himself.

 

Maybe you are one of those who cannot go beyond your anger and disgust no matter if your child would understand it or not but that is not me.

 

Replace "anger and digust" with 'Opression' - at the time.

 

I am an adult

 

As another poster said, responsible adults don't replace their BS lifestyle for that of the OW - without at some point, turning away from it.

 

I am able to deal with adult issues

.

 

Doesn't look like it so far.

 

 

My child is well...a child-she lacked the maturity to understand adult issues.

 

The present circumstances don't have anything to do with 'adult' issues.

[Silly_Girl]

Of course you did. That was the whole point of telling us of your little scenario. The robber's robbing was justified by the fact that his tiny children are starving. (You know just like the Sally Struthers commercials. Show us pictures of starving children to play on our vicarious guilt.) Your son should have willingly agreed to give up the ipad. He didn't, because "rules are rules," that's just "HIS" viewpoint.

 

I have no clue who Sally Struthers is. I never once thought he should have agreed to anything - point out where I said that please?

 

If laying a guilt trip wasn't your intent, then you wouldn't have used the "tiny starving children" angle. But you did.

 

I was asking if the motivation made any difference to his view. You having trouble seeing that?

 

No, you didn't say that. Not here, anyway.

 

I am sorry to find this so very funny, but are you insinuating that if something isn't reported here on LS, then it didn't happen? Because that would make life very interesting indeed

 

You didn't talk about his drama studies, either.

 

As mentioned previously, it was not possible (or my intention) to convey an entire, in-depth exchange.... in three or four sentences. Are you offended that I do not share every detail of my life with you?

 

Good. I guess I misunderstood you, and you actually agree that everything your son said was the correct position to take on it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Didn't say that either. You seem very controlling. You remind me of my ex... If I do not commit to X, then it MUST be Y. Because you say so.

 

So now you are saying that what you posted here in the thread was not sufficient to provide an understanding of your conversation with your son?

 

 

1. Why didn't you, and if you weren't going to, why did you post the anecdote at all?

 

2. Why is that anyone's fault but your own?

 

The gist is there, but do not TELL me the contents of our conversation, when you were not a party to it.

 

Wow, you even gaslight in a discussion thread. Interesting. You're literally engaging in gaslighting, right here, right now. Classic cheater behavior, btw.

 

Hhmmmm. Okay. Perhaps, instead of avoiding my comment, you could substantiate why you think you are NOT being aggressive, and why I am mistaken and you are NOT acting as though you know things that you could not possibly know....?

 

You provided what you now say was incomplete information about your anecdote with your son; then claim I misunderstood what you meant, blaming me for not knowing what you chose not to post; then admit that you are actually concealing relevant, but undisclosed info (what I "can't possibly know" because you chose not to disclose it, obviously, although "it" might not even exist); then actually accuse me of a psychological disorder.

 

No. I blamed you for dictating to me what had (and hadn't) been said. When you know and I know that you have no way of being in receipt of that knowledge. That's all.

 

That's "gaslighting" honey, straight from the movie, actually.

 

What fillm? Have I missed something?

 

I know it because you haven't denied it. (and you never claimed it occurred in your first posts about it, so there's no reason to believe it happened).

 

This is a theme. If I didn't run something past you, it didn't happen. Don't be daft.

 

What does an ipad have to do with cheaters? Nothing. You simply injected this anecdote into a thread about sympathy for cheaters to analogize an ipad thief with starving children to a cheater, in terms of how deserving of the victim's sympathy either one might be.

 

My son and I did not have a conversation about infidelity and I never claimed we did. I also explained how the mention of his new toy came up, so there's no issue there. I also wasn't the least bit interested in generating sympathy, I was merely interested in demonstrating how the majority of posts on the thread didn't seem to understand what empathy actually is, in a thread all about empathy.

 

Irrelevant to this discussion, since you didn't mention any other scenarios.

 

You made them relevant, by making sweeping (inaccurate) assumptions.

 

If I am trying to make a point, using an anecdote,

 

Oh come on, that's unlikely. You're here to bash. We're not going to see anything real from you.

 

I will include as much as might be needed to try to make the point in a concise manner. I assume that's what you were trying to do as well, and therefore, you didn't include anything that you thought wasn't relevant.

 

You assume. There's a lot of that in most of your posts to me.

 

The point you were trying to make was why cheaters should be given empathy

 

I wasn't saying cheaters should be given anything. My interest was in the definition. And the line between empathy (feeling/thinking) and compassion (altering one's actions accordingly, with others in mind).

 

(because they're like an ipad thief with starving children, a justifiable excuse for theft). You didn't think any of the above other things, if you did discuss them, were relevant to the point you were trying to make.

 

True. Because I was not debating whether empathy should exist, or from/for whom.

 

I pointed out that they are relevant. That's the difference between having an ethical/moral perspective and not having one.

 

They were relevant TO YOU because you are not interested in discussing the content of my post, and its motivation. You are interested in twisting words, bolstering your own arguments, and bashing.

 

Ethics isn't just something to be studied in school.

 

I didn't say it was. I said that I was having a conversation, in the middle of a Sunday, whilst doing something with my son. If it didn't go the direction you wanted, or to the depth you desire, it's because there was no need, not at all.

 

Bottom line is either you think cheating is ethical, or you don't.

 

Incorrect. I do not have a blanket view. You might, but you can stop right there if you want to impose your approach on me. There are times I have seen infidelity and felt it very much ethical. And many other times I haven't.

 

You think it's ethical, yet you don't want to put that on the table and discuss it with your son, even though you will waste lots of time talking about meaningless hypotheticals. Seems like a contradiction to me.

 

 

No you haven't. Why do you think being in a relationship with a married man who cheated on his wife (and has no empathy for her) is an appropriate relationship for you to be in,

 

It would be a total threadjack for me to go in to that here, but please do feel free to go back and read my posts (as I already suggested). If you are capable of empathy you will see why/how I made the choices I did. Regardless of whether you agree, of course.

 

and one that you do not feel you can freely discuss with your son?

 

My adult issues are not his. Especially as things are not particularly rosy for him right now. As his parent, who has done a great job by him, I make that call.

 

You post a lot of words but I haven't seen an answer to this question. You can spout off to LS all you want about your affair but you can't tell your own son about it.

 

As I stated, I also didn't tell me son the history of my previous relationship, how we got together, issues we encountered etc. He is my son, not my relationship mentor. I have asked before but let me ask again - do you have children? Are you a single parent? How are are they? I believe this would help me greatly in terms of your interesting stance about what children require to be told about their parents lives.

 

See it's easy for someone who doesn't cheat. We just teach our kids, or try to: "Don't cheat, lie or steal. Don't hurt other people for your own pleasure or convenience. Don't try to rationalize your own bad conduct because you think it's the path of least resistance." And we also teach them: "If you screw up or make a mistake, make amends for it, make it right, don't do it again."

 

You CAN'T teach your kid that. Because you don't live it, yourself. That's why you can't hold up your illicit relationship as a "good example" to your child, to emulate. Because it's not a good example, and you know that.

 

How my son sees my relationship is a good example is how he sees us interact, how much we care for each other, how we spend our time. Our behaviour in front of him is what is important, and he is getting a very positive example of a relationship, possibly the best he's had in his life so far (apart from my grandparents who both have now passed, sadly).

 

So you believe lying and cheating, by both partners, is the "best" way to handle marital difficulties? (Rather than say counseling, or just getting divorced.) OK fine, but that means you endorse lying and cheating. Another thing you aren't able to tell your own kid about. Lying and cheating. That's what you think is "BEST."

 

I said it was best FOR THEM. You might like to go back and re-read. When my previus R was in trouble I went for counselling with him, twice. Was a total waste of time, but still. He cheated on me, I never cheated on him, and there were some extentuating circumstances which means I would have forgiven myself fairly quickly if I had stepped outside of my moral boundaries.

 

His wife is intensely private, and wouldn't speak to the counsellor she selected regarding her issues relating to sex. There was no way that couple in particular were going to address things. So, with no kids involved, buggering off and having an affair and dealing with things in that context, yes, it allowed them both to see how things could be, and how messed up their dysfunctional set-up is. That does not make me pro-cheating. It means I have a view on their situation. If it were someone else, with different factors, I may feel differently.

 

But remember.... I have tapped away briefly here, please refrain from your trick of asserting things which aren't true, just because I haven't already eliminated the possibility here. Not sure there's room for the full history of a 10 year marriage...

 

Again that's fine, but why would you feel so entitled that you would think a betrayed spouse should have empathy or sympathy for lying and cheating? Doesn't make any sense.

 

I think the human race in general should have EMPATHY (not sympathy - fancy quoting where I said that?!) for one another. I am learning that there are some for whom that is more difficult. This thread is the first time I have really thought about it to such an extent.

 

Your boyfriend didn't have to take her back, did he?

 

No I know. What an eejit.

 

So if one cheats and lies, it's cool with you if the other cheats and lies?

 

Again, my views were only in this scenario, give me another and I can comment on THAT one. Her affair continued, and still does to this day. He wasn't happy with that, but she wouldn't relent. So it was a contributing factor in him leaving.

 

Again fine with me. But if it's fine with you, then full disclosure to your kid.

 

Why? Why tell him? I don't talk over my choice of contraceptive with him, or which mortgage product to take. Why are you obsessed with him knowing everything about my relationships?

 

I have absolutely NO SHAME on the other matter I need to tell him, either, none whatsoever, it just wouldn't be possible, but I still am choosing not to tell him at this point.

 

The proof's in the pudding. There are some things I did when I was younger (before marriage) that I am NOT proud of. So I DON'T tell my kids of those things.

 

Ah, so you have kids. How old are they? Why not tell them? As your kids, why is it not their business? You are their parent, are you not? You seem to think that anything pertaining to me is my son's business. So same should apply.

 

But I wouldn't parade around on the internet expecting to be congratulated for the mistakes I made in the past!

 

Is that how you perceive my actions?

 

Why is it cheaters want everyone to applaud them for lying and cheating? Yet they don't even want to tell their own flesh and blood about that which they want to be applauded for, by strangers?

 

I have never expected to be applauded. But if you can find somewhere where I say that, please pop it up here.

 

LOL because that's what empathy means. I told you you aren't capable of understanding it. You put the other person's feelings ahead of your own. You don't put your feelings ahead of theirs (which is what you have done).

 

Finally, we have it. You think that one has to put the other's feelings first to show empathy. How do you do this in your real life? Do you feel empathy for those who find themselves homeless through no fault of their own? Do you then invite them in to your home? I am intrigued and what love to see some more about how your actions change based on your 'empathy'. Does this mean you have never been able to say ' I understand your point of view, but I disagree with it'?

 

[/i]I assume that if you didn't post it, it wasn't said. Or is not relevant to your post. Sorry that doesn't work for you. Don't play the game of claiming that I don't understand the whole picture when you didn't bother telling us about the whole picture. That's totally on you.

 

The whole picture is far too big to paint in an internet forum. And it is wider than just that particular conversation. So there is no game. It's how it goes on these forums. More information clarifies the situation further. There will be an OP, and someone asks questions to further understand the issue and formulate a considered opinion. Another style of poster would just blurt something and mix it up with a load of assumptions.

 

I'm not going to quote you. Now you're saying he doesn't lack compassion. O.K. Fine. Then your posting of the anecdote was entirely pointless. Because NOW (apparently) it's O.K. with you not to feel compassion for the ipad robber, even if he has starving tiny children.

 

When did I say it's okay to not feel compassion?

 

You also just mocked him again by saying he see things in "black and white", a back handed way of saying he's overly simplistic in his ethical views. No he's not, at least not according to anything you've posted that he actually said, or did.

 

Hang on, I said he sees things more in black and white than I do. I did NOT say 'he's overly simplistic in his ethical views'. You ought to stop trying to tell me what I have said and actually read what I said.

 

And I am not mocking him. There are times I wish I saw things as more B&W than I do.

 

It's a shame that your disgust for me and my actions prevents you from having a valuable exchange where you don't have to resort to twisting words and making things up.

 

"No relationship, except in law". Well a "legal" relationship (i.e. they are still married!) is a relationship. And, if what you are saying is true--that at this point, there marriage (wherever you are) is just viewed as a legal technicality--then you have absolutely no reason not to disclose the full details to your son.

 

If it's just viewed as a legal technicality, why the need to tell him?

 

Why not? You and your bf are lying to him or withholding info. from him. It's to protect yourselves from embarrassment. Also, he's STILL MARRIED! Does your son know he's still married, or not? Does your son know his wife still wants to stay married to him, or not?

 

Oh hang on, let me think hard about this. If my son doesn't know my bf is married, how on earth would he know how the wife feels? You're confusing me now!! I feel as though I've missed something, a point you're trying to make.

 

But now since you ARE "sure" those details ARE your son's concern. Unless you're not sure? Which is it? Are you sure he is a permanent fixture, in which case, no reason not to tell your son; or, are you not sure?

 

Yes he is a permanent fixture, again, I have no clue why it's my son's business. Should he also be reading my bf's CV? Checking his bank statements? Calling up friends and family for references? How far does this requisite disclosure need to go? Since when must parents lay out the details of their personal relationships to their children? How much of MY life should my son know about? Should I talk to him about all my previous relationships?

 

How could it be for the same reasons? What is the big deal about your son knowing that an SO has an additional child?

Because we were a family unit, at weekends, The 5 of us. Then a much older girl, a teenager living a very different life to the others, pops up. It would confuse and unsettle him. The other kids didn't know they had an older sister (their mum's choice) so we decided to not have her to the house when my son was there. It's additional noise a kid doesn't need to deal with.

 

Again, you wouldn't have these problems if you just decided to be an honest person. All you have to do then, is tell the truth. (Yikes frightening, isn't it? Once you start telling the truth to other people, you might actually start telling it to yourself.)

 

I have been telling the truth. I never once lied to my friends or parents about his marital status. Not once.

 

I did it explain it and the explanation is obvious. I don't share things with my children that I don't want them to know about; but I don't go on the internet bragging about anything I think I need to conceal from my children. I'm not going to tell my kids about drunken one night stands I might have had in my 20's (maybe when they are a lot older I might). On the other hand I'm not on the internet endorsing drunken one night stands as a desirable relationship pattern, either

.

See the difference? No, you don't, do you.

 

So your children know everything about you, provided it's not something you're ashamed of, is that what you're saying? (asking, not telling)

 

How are my personal details relevant to YOUR anecdotal experience that YOU chose to provide in a thread about empathy towards other persons, but which you now are saying has no real relevance to this thread? Don't post about your personal life if you don't want to receive commentary on it.

 

It's relevant because you are criticising me for relaying the content of my conversation. You choose not to, I choose to. A non-issue.

 

Look. It sounds like you are living in a "bubble." (The "affair fog" perhaps?) On the internet you can say whatever you want and you will find support for it; and you can easily reject other opinions since they have no real effect on your life.

 

Erm, actually there's very little 'support' here. And I am not posting in this thread for that. Far from it. Think I am missing your point again here

 

Then there is your real life with people you actually interact with. One is your son. You can keep him in the dark like a mushroom for your own convenience, but it's really not fair to him. At some point he's going to find out what's going on, either from you or from someone else, and he might not like the version he gets from someone else.

 

ONE is my son. One is. Exactly. Firstly, he's the only one. Secondly he's MY SON. And I am the best judge of what and when he should be told things. My bf's marriage IS BY NO MEANS the defining factor in our R. And much less so, to my son. There are many more important things.

 

You mentioned your mom, sis, and 2 bfs. I specifically asked if these women, the people who know you best, endorsed your affair with your married person. You didn't answer.

 

Yes I did! They knew he was married. They knew they were living in the same house. They knew there were joint obligations, holidays booked etc. They knew all of that. When you asked me previously, I said: None of them wanted to see me be hurt or let down, all of them felt/feel we are a fantastic match and have done entirely the right thing.

 

You can ignore me, but you can't ignore them. You can blow them off all you want, but I assure you, they are talking about you, and they have opinions about you, and they will discuss this stuff. And you will not be able to b.s. them out of their opinions, and you will not be able to put them on "ignore." They know you better than anyone else. And most likely if they love you and have their own heads on straight, and are not cheaters themselves, they are absolutely horrified at what you are doing with your life.

 

Well there you go. They do love me. They are not cheaters (to my knowledge) yet they are not horrified. Does that scare you? Oh, I think I know what will come now. You can't handle that fact, so you will claim either that I am lying, or they are.

 

If not, tell us otherwise. If you don't know, go tell them the truth about your affair and ask them what they REALLY think. Most likely they will tell you you are foolish to continue an affair with a married man who cheated on his wife. They will tell you "If he cheated on her, he will cheat on you. Why are you wasting your life on this pig?" But I don't know, because you haven't said. So tell us what they think.

 

They have all met him, on numerous occasions over the last year or more. A couple have talked to him about his previous relationship, and his actions. They are happy that I am happy, and they like him. And they like how he is with my son and I.

 

Stop playing these games and go ask your mom, sis, and best friends. Ask your son. Go to whoever is teaching your son ethics at school, and ask that person what they think (objective person). Print this thread out. I don't take kindly to you implying that I have the same morals of a low down cheater like your b.f. and therefore I am calling you out. I never cheated on anyone.

 

Hello? I said what? When?

 

So, Print the thread out. Show it to the people you know best.

 

Show the world how wonderful your tawdry little affair really is. Be proud. Then get back to us and tell us about all the people you know in real life who think you are such a empathic and compassionate person.

 

Er yes, that is my point. Thank you. I can be involved in a situation of infidelity, yet be a fantastic, loyal, kind friend. I can be a great mum to my son, who is doing well at school, and socially and emotionally, mostly thanks to me. I can be a good daughter. I am not defined by one relationship, the same as you are not defined by slutty behaviour you displayed. (although not sure if that was a hypothetical situation)

 

 

Great. Why aren't they divorced? Just tell him you will go NC with him until the divorce is final and she is out of his life. Very simple.

 

That's okay. I don't have an issue with the status of legally married. I was married for 4 or so years whilst living with my ex-SO. I'm cool with it.

 

Fine. Discuss with your mom, sis, 2 best friends, and son, and tell us what they think about it. But you have to be truthful and include all of it, like that he was married and not separated when you started your affair with him.

 

Yes. Done that. They were fully aware back then, 18 months ago.

 

Why do you think I care if you are happy or not?

 

Did I ask that? I said I was glad you didn't see my posting about happiness as bragging. I certainly didn't suggest that you cared whether I was happy.

 

Absolutely.

 

Not only am I empathetic for you, I feel a great deal of pity for you, for this harm is self-inflicted by you on yourself.

 

Firstly, what is the pity FOR? Secondly why pity someone if you perceive they've only brought it on themselves?

 

If you feel empathy, does that mean you have read my posts about my relationship and understand why I felt it was the right thing to do, to pursue this relationship?

 

I am glad we managed to end it on the subject of empathy, given the title of the thread.

[SidLyon]

Err umm - there seem to be some posters on this thread who all post in similar vein. For goodness sake don't engage with them if you don't like what they say.

 

[This is only my suggestion while acknowledging everyones' right to be here and continue posting if they really want.]

 

I have received some private e-mails that these posters are actually the OP stirring the pot. I don't believe this, but I really don't think anyone left in this race is demonstrating any empathy.

 

Ironic really.

[WorldIsYours]

Maybe while you were there you should have considered some counseling as you seem to have some issues with women in particular.

 

Women in particular? Nah.

[WorldIsYours]

Well I'm not positive but it seems to be a pretty safe assumption. Women don't talk like that, nor would a woman say things like this example "while your wife was riding the OM" to a hurting BS would they? I mean........who the hell needs a picture painted like that?

 

That's so biased. So no woman on this earth has the exact same viewpoints as me.

[desertIslandCactus]

Err umm - there seem to be some posters on this thread who all post in similar vein. For goodness sake don't engage with them if you don't like what they say.

 

[This is only my suggestion while acknowledging everyones' right to be here and continue posting if they really want.]

 

I have received some private e-mails that these posters are actually the OP stirring the pot. I don't believe this, but I really don't think anyone left in this race is demonstrating any empathy.

 

Ironic really.

 

Anyone "left in this race" ?

 

The thread was hot from the Beginning due to the OP starting a thread about 'empathy'.

 

I would expect the same heat from others, had I started the thread.

 

Nevertheless, WorldIsYours and OpunRoad have raised some valid points IMO (posts 268 on) .. Taking responsibility - and the effects of our decisons/lifestyle, on others.

[donnamaybe]

Oh Donna!!! You've done it again.

 

I said:

 

If one changes their actions due to their empathy and understanding, surely they're then showing compassion? What's compassion in your book?

 

You said:

 

If they are changing their actions only to give someone the impression that empathy exists, then they only do it when it suits them or is somehow advantageous to them. That isn't empathy. That is acting

 

You seem obsessed with empathy = being disingenuous. I wasn't talking about faking - in any way.

 

What's compassion, by your definition?

I haven't "done it again."

 

Certain folks seem to want this thread to evolve a certain way. You, nor I, can have that. We all have different opinions.

 

This thread, by the way, is about posting with empathy. We're not talking about compassion.

 

Merriam-Webster defines empathy, at least as we're talking about it in this thread, thusly: "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another"

 

If people are to "post with empathy," there has to be the ability to comprehend each other's views. As has been stated in the past by a few people, "I don't know that person, so why should I care if they are hurt by cheating? As long as I'm happy, that's all that matters."

 

If empathy means, in part, "being sensitive to... the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another," how can a person whose philosophy is "as long as I'm happy, no one else matters" post with empathy?

[jthorne]

Nevertheless, WorldIsYours and OpunRoad have raised some valid points IMO (posts 268 on) .. Taking responsibility - and the effects of our decisons/lifestyle, on others.

Actually, I find this entire thread quite ironic.

 

Most will agree that having an affair is not empathetic. Yet here are some this thread, who have openly admitted not having empathy, suggesting to the rest of us how to post.

 

This is a long thread and I may have missed something, but did these people post somewhere that they would follow their own suggestion?

 

And could someone please explain to me how posting with empathy here on an anonymous internet board means anything if you don't live your life the same way?

Edited April 4, 2011 by jthorne

[greengoddess]

That was some reading. :laugh:Some people obviously did not have any real life to play this weekend.

 

Who has time for all that quoting he said she said stuff.

 

Sillygirl take it all as a compliment that you raised your son well. Keep him in the dark and keep him well adjusted. He doesn't need to know about his parents sex life and who was doing whom.

 

I am sure we all have some behaviors we aren't always proud of and we don't go running to tell our kids. Oh honey mommy's bad she had one too many glasses of wine last night or what have you.

[donnamaybe]

That was some reading. :laugh:Some people obviously did not have any real life to play this weekend.

 

Who has time for all that quoting he said she said stuff.

 

Sillygirl take it all as a compliment that you raised your son well. Keep him in the dark and keep him well adjusted. He doesn't need to know about his parents sex life and who was doing whom.

 

I am sure we all have some behaviors we aren't always proud of and we don't go running to tell our kids. Oh honey mommy's bad she had one too many glasses of wine last night or what have you.

I agree with this entire post 100%!

 

How's that for empathy?

[jthorne]

That was some reading. :laugh:Some people obviously did not have any real life to play this weekend.

 

Who has time for all that quoting he said she said stuff.

 

Sillygirl take it all as a compliment that you raised your son well. Keep him in the dark and keep him well adjusted. He doesn't need to know about his parents sex life and who was doing whom.

 

I am sure we all have some behaviors we aren't always proud of and we don't go running to tell our kids. Oh honey mommy's bad she had one too many glasses of wine last night or what have you.

If he's as bright as she says he is, he will most likely figure it out on his own.

 

Sure, parents do things they aren't proud of, but they usually find ways to make them teachable moments, and continue to be positive role models. I'm having trouble figuring out where obtaining a man by having an affair is a teachable moment for positive behavior.

[greengoddess]

If he's as bright as she says he is, he will most likely figure it out on his own.

 

Sure, parents do things they aren't proud of, but they usually find ways to make them teachable moments, and continue to be positive role models. I'm having trouble figuring out where obtaining a man by having an affair is a teachable moment for positive behavior.

 

It's not. that's why he really does not have to know. There is no reason to tell him mommy's boyfriend was married when they got together. no reason at all. Keep the kid well adjusted and from thinking poorly of his mom.

[greengoddess]

Rationalizations are tiresome. He needs to be kept "well adjusted and think well of his mom" through lies, yeah good idea. He will most likely find out. Better not to be a liar and a cheater maybe? But truly the empathy in it all is underwhelming, another casualty of sneaky, selfish collusion to take away the rights and power of a trusting third party. Wow, that's hot. Ick.

 

what would be the purpose of her telling her son her boyfriend was married when they got together?

[silktricks]

And how many of them are still married to their WS? Almost all of them right? That explains why they are so "nice" to the folks on this forum.

 

This is without a doubt some of the most idiotic "logic" I've ever read.

 

Because a fBS chose to forgive their fWS, that explains why the fBS are nice to current and fOW?

 

You have shown your circular logic with that statement. If anything - according to your own assumptions that a marriage can never truly recover from an affair, and that you will forever have bad memories and thoughts - the fBS who chose to stay married would have less reason to be "nice" to folks on this forum.

 

What I don't understand is how so many people who have chosen to leave their WS simply cannot seem to ever move past that one incident. I can understand staying angry with the spouse who hurt you, but even that seems like it should fade with time. To be angry with every person who has ever had an affair, and to be angry with everyone who has chosen to forgive their partner - that seems to show a serious anger issue.

 

Is it that you simply dislike everyone who doesn't agree with you and share your anger?

 

Some people actually can forgive. They really can move past a bad situation. And (back to the crux of this thread) they can show empathy. They can understand what happened in their own marriage - from both their own and their spouses perspectives. The can see the viewpoint of others - even while disagreeing with that viewpoint. That doesn't make them better people, though. Not in any way. It just makes them different.

[Woggle]

I do think he has issues with women and quite honestly so do I even though I am working on them. I think it comes from how some women will excuse anything another woman does no matter how wrong it is. Not all women are like this but I notice how some guys get called misogynists on here for telling it like it is about blatantly wrong behavior.

[silktricks]

Obviously, the point is not and never was that anyone said she should announce it to her son. That in no way addressed my post and you know it. Twisting the issue into something that attempts to put the ones who have not done anything wrong on the defensive.. Expected, all things considered. Right, we are the ones who need to defend our attempts to scar the child. LOL! I can't talk to people who don't deal honestly. Oh yeah, well then...

 

Then what was your point?