Posting with Empathy

[jthorne]

We're getting empathy mixed up with being judgmental or condoning something versus encouraging an individual.

Yeah, that seems to happen a lot here.

 

I think that considering this is an OPEN forum, it is reasonable to expect a degree of civility, but expecting all to show empathy for people having affairs is ludicrous at best.

[BB07]

Silly_Girl.........BB, with respect, how does choosing a life that includes EMRs mean that a person cannot demonstrate the skill of empathy?

 

I didn't say someone who has EMR couldn't, it's just not how she comes across to me. That was the point of my post.....that I don't see her as empathetic. I wasn't criticizing, just stating how I see it and how I find it odd that she would post this topic.

 

 

 

I HAVE seen owoman show empathy, I have seen her say things such as 'I can understand that X and Y would leave you feeling like such-and-such, BUT...' for example. Attempting to see things from that person's point of view. Trying to see how and why they would feel like they do. But not VALIDATING those feelings, or condoning them. That is not empathy.

 

We're getting empathy mixed up with being judgmental or condoning something versus encouraging an individual.

 

No I don't believe that I'm mixing things up. Where did I throw out a judgment other than about the specific (empathy) subject matter?

[Brokenlady]

Yeah, that seems to happen a lot here.

 

I think that considering this is an OPEN forum, it is reasonable to expect a degree of civility, but expecting all to show empathy for people having affairs is ludicrous at best.

 

Uh huh. You're right, why bother aspiring for human decency? We should just let this whole thing devolve into forum "survivor". Awesome.

[Brokenlady]

What we seem to have here is a real problem realizing that people are more than their role in affairs. Just because a woman is an ow doesn't mean she kicks puppies, eats babies or ignores her grandmother. Really wonderful people find themselves in affairs. And likewise, a BS is more an just betrayed. She has so much more to life that being a BS doesn't define.

 

The thing is, it's harder to see tht here because were just anonymous posters most of whom aren't even pictured for real. Its very easy to think of people one-dimensionally and so you get people like dex/wiy/Memphis raines going off the rails on some sort of crusade (or implying it's funny that a BS might have killed an OW).

 

Maybe, just maybe, if we could all just remember that we are all people with the emotions and feelings and hurts and insecurities, we could all post in a way that is actually helpful to one another rather than deriding.

[BenThereDunThat]

^^^^^^^^^^

Post of the year, right there.

 

Seriously. It should be stickied at the top of the section.

 

d'oh....those arrows should point to brokenlady's post.

[BB07]

oh but yet things you do do define you. For an example, let's say I meet you and you are this incredible author that I really respect and I love reading your books and we get into a personal discussion and you mention to me that you are ****ing a married man I would lose all respect for you. It wouldn't matter that I admired your work as an author, I would just see this big flag waving that says your boundaries are lacking and you are willing to compromise yourself. So even though to you being a mistress is just a small part of you to some others it is huge and changes how they feel about you. Am I making sense? Oh and this was all general you stuff.

 

And I'd have a lot less respect for someone who goes places and has fun and makes it a game to pick out people who they make themselves judge and jury as to who they might see out who MIGHT be having an affair. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t264034/ So I don't think a person such as yourself should be doling out advice here.

 

Just saying...........

[BB07]

What we seem to have here is a real problem realizing that people are more than their role in affairs. Just because a woman is an ow doesn't mean she kicks puppies, eats babies or ignores her grandmother. Really wonderful people find themselves in affairs. And likewise, a BS is more an just betrayed. She has so much more to life that being a BS doesn't define.

 

The thing is, it's harder to see tht here because were just anonymous posters most of whom aren't even pictured for real. Its very easy to think of people one-dimensionally and so you get people like dex/wiy/Memphis raines going off the rails on some sort of crusade (or implying it's funny that a BS might have killed an OW).

 

Maybe, just maybe, if we could all just remember that we are all people with the emotions and feelings and hurts and insecurities, we could all post in a way that is actually helpful to one another rather than deriding.

 

 

Good post BL!

[Silly_Girl]

This thread has been quite entertaining and yes informative.

 

I'm really don't mean this as a personal attack, I really don't because there are parts of you OWoman that I really like and agree with (your empowerment of women) so when I saw who started this thread, I was quite shocked and I gotta wonder what was the point. I don't see you as empathetic OWoman.......sorry I just don't. You aren't shy about posting about your many affairs with MM and I've never saw you post anything that was empathetic to a BS and/or children and really I can't think of much of anything else that you've posted related to anything that would cause me to see you as a empathic person even to other OW. In regards to other OW you do post in support of them being in a position of strength and not to be passive, but I still don't see you as empathetic. Of course I don't know you in r/l and all I have is the impression that you leave with your posts ......I find it really odd that you would be the person who posts about empathy. So why.........what is the point? Are you hoping for some to get the hint that they should be more empathetic here or ?

 

BB, with respect, how does choosing a life that includes EMRs mean that a person cannot demonstrate the skill of empathy?

 

I HAVE seen owoman show empathy, I have seen her say things such as 'I can understand that X and Y would leave you feeling like such-and-such, BUT...' for example. Attempting to see things from that person's point of view. Trying to see how and why they would feel like they do. But not VALIDATING those feelings, or condoning them. That is not empathy.

 

We're getting empathy mixed up with being judgmental or condoning something versus encouraging an individual.

 

I didn't say someone who has EMR couldn't, it's just not how she comes across to me. That was the point of my post.....that I don't see her as empathetic. I wasn't criticizing, just stating how I see it and how I find it odd that she would post this topic.

 

 

No I don't believe that I'm mixing things up. Where did I throw out a judgment other than about the specific (empathy) subject matter?

 

BB, it felt as though you were making a moral judgment about OWoman's life and saying that as a result of her choices, she was not capable of empathy.

 

I am now going to re-hash something I already said, but in OWoman's posts I have seen her put herself in the posters position, and offer tailored comments, even if she disagrees/disapproves. That's why I felt you weren't distinguishing between the two. But if you don't feel those posts exist, that will be the difference between our views.

[Silly_Girl]

Yeah, that seems to happen a lot here.

 

I think that considering this is an OPEN forum, it is reasonable to expect a degree of civility, but expecting all to show empathy for people having affairs is ludicrous at best.

 

I agree. Having good empathy skills requires a high level of emotional intelligence... and the emotive aspect of the subject matter often precludes that.

 

Many don't seem able to step in to someone else's shoes because they refuse to believe they even hold that viewpoint, let alone give it any thought/credence.

[Silly_Girl]

What we seem to have here is a real problem realizing that people are more than their role in affairs. Just because a woman is an ow doesn't mean she kicks puppies, eats babies or ignores her grandmother. Really wonderful people find themselves in affairs. And likewise, a BS is more an just betrayed. She has so much more to life that being a BS doesn't define.

 

The thing is, it's harder to see tht here because were just anonymous posters most of whom aren't even pictured for real. Its very easy to think of people one-dimensionally and so you get people like dex/wiy/Memphis raines going off the rails on some sort of crusade (or implying it's funny that a BS might have killed an OW).

 

Maybe, just maybe, if we could all just remember that we are all people with the emotions and feelings and hurts and insecurities, we could all post in a way that is actually helpful to one another rather than deriding.

 

Fabulous post!!!

[26pointblue]

Yeah, that seems to happen a lot here.

 

I think that considering this is an OPEN forum, it is reasonable to expect a degree of civility, but expecting all to show empathy for people having affairs is ludicrous at best.

 

Why would anyone come here if they are unable to show empathy for the people this forum is designed to support?? That is just wrong in and of itself, IMHO.

[BB07]

BB, it felt as though you were making a moral judgment about OWoman's life and saying that as a result of her choices, she was not capable of empathy.

 

I am now going to re-hash something I already said, but in OWoman's posts I have seen her put herself in the posters position, and offer tailored comments, even if she disagrees/disapproves. That's why I felt you weren't distinguishing between the two. But if you don't feel those posts exist, that will be the difference between our views.

 

Ahhh SG.....I really don't think that I was saying or thinking that she couldn't be empathetic because of her choices. She just doesn't come across that way to me. Again for the record it was not an attack.

 

However, I will concede that my own beliefs, morals, experiences do have an influence in my thinking or opinions.........I can't help that as I'm human.

[Owl]

I think that perhaps there might be some confusion here between two similar words...empathy and sympathy.

 

I believe that I'm a pretty empathic poster here on LS. I try to see things from the other person's viewpoint, and try to post my advice and support accordingly.

 

But, while I may feel empathy for someone who is hurting, I don't always show sympathy for someone who created their own pain.

 

I would argue that I think that there are many posters on here who post similarly...on all three sides of the triangle.

 

I would also point out that many, many people have trouble putting themselves "in the other person's shoes" when it may force them to have a more critical view of their own actions/morals/etc...

 

Many BS's have trouble feeling empathy (or sympathy) for OW/OM.

 

Many OW/OM here on LS have trouble feeling empathy (or sympathy) for a BS.

 

To do so in either case forces you to realize that your viewpoint may differ radically from theirs. I had to learn that all OW/OM aren't evil. I would also add that it is difficult for OW/OM to do the same towards the BS, because it might also force them to see the impacts of their own actions/morals in a different light...and that is exactly why I believe that some of the OW/OM posting here have such an "issue" with BS's being here.

 

I haven't bothered to take the test in the beginning of this thread...I'm comfortable enough with where I'm at not to care what this kind of test might say about me one way or another.

[Silly_Girl]

Why would anyone come here if they are unable to show empathy for the people this forum is designed to support?? That is just wrong in and of itself, IMHO.

 

Oh, out of the mouths of babes....

 

(I mean, in respect of you being a noob an' all, don't be offended)

[donnamaybe]

BB, with respect, how does choosing a life that includes EMRs mean that a person cannot demonstrate the skill of empathy?

"Demonstrating the skill of empathy" doesn't mean someone HAS empathy. IMO, someone who doesn't care who gets hurt as long as they get what THEY want is NOT a person who possesses empathy.

[26pointblue]

Oh, out of the mouths of babes....

 

(I mean, in respect of you being a noob an' all, don't be offended)

 

No offense taken. But I meant it as a serious question. Are they trying to convert us? Does it make them feel better to come lecture to us or tell us we are 'bad' because of what we are doing?

 

I just don't understand the motivation.

[BB07]

Do you often judge a poster by one post? I'm wrong because I think it's funny when I see cheaters out, They're scaredy cats,but the cheater isn't wrong?

Life is so confusing.

 

One post can say a WHOLE lot about someone's outlook and viewpoints and someone who gets their jollies as you indicated you like to do says a lot about YOU. Even the BS's who responded in your thread didn't see any humor in your little game.

 

I'm not even going to bother engaging with anything else you said.

[pureinheart]

Yesterday's paper had an interesting article on empathy. Posters in this forum on both "sides" accuse each other routinely of lacking empathy. As the author says, APs are accused by some posters here of lacking empathy for the BS, while they in turn accuse those same posters of themselves lacking empathy in how those posters respond to posts on this board.

 

One paragraph in particular struck me as being of particular relevance in this forum:

 

 

 

Rather than pointing fingers at other posters, it might behove everyone to read that carefully and consider how it might apply to them - either in their behaviour on this board, or elsewhere. While there are a couple of posters here who spring to mind as the incarnation of empathy and compassion, I would suspect that even those members would have the humility to pause and consider their own behaviour anew.

 

And for those who are interested, there is even an empathy test...

 

Excellent post OWoman, and I wish I could say the same concerning some of the replies in your thread. I don't get it, what is the problem? This is a good discussion topic...

 

It never hurts to take a self inventory, although based on some of the usual replies, are you saying it's not?

[pureinheart]

oh but yet things you do do define you. For an example, let's say I meet you and you are this incredible author that I really respect and I love reading your books and we get into a personal discussion and you mention to me that you are ****ing a married man I would lose all respect for you. It wouldn't matter that I admired your work as an author, I would just see this big flag waving that says your boundaries are lacking and you are willing to compromise yourself. So even though to you being a mistress is just a small part of you to some others it is huge and changes how they feel about you. Am I making sense? Oh and this was all general you stuff.

 

Also, not "you" in general...commenting on the attitude. Translation: I am better than you because I am not doing x,y or z.

 

I run when I see this attitude in operation, and I think this is why it is good to take a self inventory as the OP suggests.

[Woggle]

How are we supposed to take the UK seriously in anything? Even the newspapers are so estrogen soaked I feel reading one may cause the pitch of my voice to raise. Taking advice from that is like taking advice from Cosmopolitan Magazine.

 

Look... When I post something that hits with brute force strength... it is meant to be that way. I understand how the other person will most likely read and react to it.

 

I don't need some nansy pansy U.K. newspaper to tell me how to be empathetic. Are there men left in that country anyway? Do they have them all locked up in cages? Ugh...

 

I don't want to bash the UK but I agree. I can feel empathy for people who are genuine victims and I always show it but I am not going to sit here and coddle somebody who created their own situation and is blatantly hurting others. I don't set out to insult or pick on people but I call it like I see it. There is a huge difference between a real victim and a person who's self inflicted drama becomes a little too hard to handle.

[Taramere]

I don't want to bash the UK but I agree. I can feel empathy for people who are genuine victims and I always show it but I am not going to sit here and coddle somebody who created their own situation and is blatantly hurting others. I don't set out to insult or pick on people but I call it like I see it. There is a huge difference between a real victim and a person who's self inflicted drama becomes a little too hard to handle.

 

I'd just like to point out that the article OWoman linked doesn't focus on extramarital affairs or on empathy between parties in love triangles.

 

On the other hand, seeing as it was written by the cousin of Sacha Baron Cohen,otherwise known as Ali G, I can understand you yanks wanting to get a few digs in against the UK. Revenge for Borat.

[Silly_Girl]

IMO, someone who doesn't care who gets hurt as long as they get what THEY want is NOT a person who possesses empathy.

 

You're confusing it with compassion.

[Silly_Girl]

I think that perhaps there might be some confusion here between two similar words...empathy and sympathy.

 

I believe that I'm a pretty empathic poster here on LS. I try to see things from the other person's viewpoint, and try to post my advice and support accordingly.

 

But, while I may feel empathy for someone who is hurting, I don't always show sympathy for someone who created their own pain.

 

I would argue that I think that there are many posters on here who post similarly...on all three sides of the triangle.

 

I would also point out that many, many people have trouble putting themselves "in the other person's shoes" when it may force them to have a more critical view of their own actions/morals/etc...

 

Many BS's have trouble feeling empathy (or sympathy) for OW/OM.

 

Many OW/OM here on LS have trouble feeling empathy (or sympathy) for a BS.

 

To do so in either case forces you to realize that your viewpoint may differ radically from theirs. I had to learn that all OW/OM aren't evil. I would also add that it is difficult for OW/OM to do the same towards the BS, because it might also force them to see the impacts of their own actions/morals in a different light...and that is exactly why I believe that some of the OW/OM posting here have such an "issue" with BS's being here.

 

I haven't bothered to take the test in the beginning of this thread...I'm comfortable enough with where I'm at not to care what this kind of test might say about me one way or another.

 

I like this Owl. You get it. We can understand and make rational sense of someone's view/actions, but can still be disgusted by them. That is what makes human interaction so exciting for me.

 

I understand why animal rights protestors do what they do. I feel their anger and see their frustration. But people end up murdered, that's wrong. I am not excusing/encouraging what they have done. I still find their actions abhorrent, but they have reached their decisions on the basis of THEIR views and understandings of the situation.

 

Appreciate your post.

[Woggle]

I'd just like to point out that the article OWoman linked doesn't focus on extramarital affairs or on empathy between parties in love triangles.

 

On the other hand, seeing as it was written by the cousin of Sacha Baron Cohen,otherwise known as Ali G, I can understand you yanks wanting to get a few digs in against the UK. Revenge for Borat.

 

I have nothing against the UK. The same crap that exists over there exists over here as well.

[mizliz]

I'd just like to point out that the article OWoman linked doesn't focus on extramarital affairs or on empathy between parties in love triangles.

 

On the other hand, seeing as it was written by the cousin of Sacha Baron Cohen,otherwise known as Ali G, I can understand you yanks wanting to get a few digs in against the UK. Revenge for Borat.

 

This is an important point.

 

It may be difficult to discuss empathy in the context of extramarital affairs because the underlying assumption is that, in fact, affairs are wrong. So, perhaps arguing for empathy and/or understanding in matters like these seems illogical? That's just the feeling I am getting.

 

Great discussion.