mizliz Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Omg people... support and discussion for those involved with a committed partner. duh? What did i say? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Good post. It comes across as seeking validation when people are accused as lacking empathy for the choice to participate in infidelity. What is the reaction that OW/OM fear from their actual friends? Disgust? Anger? Social Isolation? I think we all seek out "validation" for our choices to some degree. We are social animals, so, of course we feel the need to belong - to be with like-minded people. We will seek that out in many forms - an online discussion board being one of many. With respect to A's - as a previous poster mentioned, most OW/OM know that what they are doing is socially unacceptable. For myself, I stumbled here given the nature of my relationship. It's not as if I could talk to my friends and family about the fact that I was involved/in love with a MM. Why? Because they would have been disgusted by my choices. That's not to say that they would have stopped loving me; but they would have questioned my morals. And, with good reason. Even I know that. If I had been so secure in my choice to love MM (and, it is a choice), I would not have hesitated to declare/defend my love for him. Culturally, assuming most who post here are coming from Jewish/Christian/Muslim...etc upbringings, know that infidelity is objectively wrong. We can justify it's existance all we want, it doesn't change the fact that it is socially unacceptable. The validation comes in when we want to step outside our cultural norms. You'll notice that it isn't widely accepted. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 So disappointed I'm not further forward on this. Read the threads from the perspective of one not looking for support of their affair or looking for ways to further deceive the betrayed and your disappointment might turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Read the threads from the perspective of one not looking for support of their affair or looking for ways to further deceive the betrayed and your disappointment might turn. I read most opening posts on this board.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Good post. It comes across as seeking validation when people are accused as lacking empathy for the choice to participate in infidelity. What is the reaction that OW/OM fear from their actual friends? Disgust? Anger? Social Isolation? Okay NID, so let's try this... I believe SOME posters on this board lack empathy. They claim to have been in a similar situation to others but I don't recall reading something that made me think 'yes! They 'get' it, they know how it feels'. That could just be my perception of course. Because I say there is a lack of empathy, and no understanding of a poster's predicament, YOU see that as asking for approval? You think I am asking for those posters to AGREE with my opinion... Is that what you are seeing? As for your second point, my friends were aware of the background to my relationship, so I did not have those fears. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 why are you disappointed? Why would I bother writing the OP if i wasn't genuinely interested in understanding why these things are being said? I just hoped that those who make the claim might be able to enlighten me, but as you can see from jthorne's post, people are happy to allude to things but not actually have a straight-up exchange of info and opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
mizliz Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Why would I bother writing the OP if i wasn't genuinely interested in understanding why these things are being said? I just hoped that those who make the claim might be able to enlighten me, but as you can see from jthorne's post, people are happy to allude to things but not actually have a straight-up exchange of info and opinions. Gotcha. Sorry for wandering into your thread with my rambling posts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Gotcha. Sorry for wandering into your thread with my rambling posts. No need to apologise Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You've been missed. Thank you. But after browsing a few threads here...its really gone downhill. Tony still around...I distinctly remember him being "not shy" about infractions and bans...and some of what I read, as far as I remember, would have earned timeouts in the past. Kinda shocking tbh. Hang on!.... a large proportion of society finds abortion to be reprehensible. I think if an individual wishes to turn to a forum to discuss abortion-related matters, they should be safe to do so without negative responses online. Oh boy. Yeah, lets just fight this fire with gasoline and bring up abortions why don't we... I do understand what you say however when we discuss <anything> that carries such emotional entanglements passions get out of hand and predictably so does the thread. I too wish for decorum and respect. I also wish to win a zillion dollars in the lottery. Guess which one will happen first I suspect my view is naive and unrealistic. Naive?...no Unrealistic?...no It is simply a byproduct of the format here on LS. It is an open anonymous forum and as such we will get posters with a divergent set of views and an equally varied "style" of posting said opinions. There are venues where only "one side" may speak. I do not find them as helpful or as engaging as the public discourse here. Having said that, posters do need to "dial it down" at times. Anyways...off to read more threads and try and catch up... Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Okay NID, so let's try this... I believe SOME posters on this board lack empathy. They claim to have been in a similar situation to others but I don't recall reading something that made me think 'yes! They 'get' it, they know how it feels'. That could just be my perception of course. Because I say there is a lack of empathy, and no understanding of a poster's predicament, YOU see that as asking for approval? You think I am asking for those posters to AGREE with my opinion... Is that what you are seeing? As for your second point, my friends were aware of the background to my relationship, so I did not have those fears. I realize I did not complete my thought in that post, but I did not say what your filter/perception came up with. When people post here, there is that inevitable post that is negative (not bashing, just not what the OP truly wanted to hear) about their situation. The one that advises NC, or compassion for the BS, or that the OP consider a line of thought not common with those in affairs. The OP, or those that think supporting the OP is best done by taking the post off-topic to argue against that opinion, usually responds by quoting the description of this forum (support and discussion for.....) and accuses the negative posters of lacking empathy for them and the situation their in. Its a cycle I wish would stop, personally. For example: A OW can post that she "loves a man" and someone responds that its not that simple because he's someone's husband. Often the OW responds back that that person is just there to rain on their parade, in so many words. But all they did was state the truth. Its a complicated position that's not helped by ignoring a few details in the minds of some. So that poster didn't validate the OWs feelings and view about her "man" and pointed out that it was a "married man". I mentioned "reality" in another thread and was told I was doing something wrong in saying so. Mentioning the fact that the man is married IS reality. Saying that the MM is just a "man" seems to ignore that reality - even if he is making moves to change that one day. So much is read into what posters say here, when if the posts were just taken at face value their wouldn't be nearly as much arguing about a simple statement. OPs repeatedly post that they "can't talk to friends" about their affairs, or that they have and their friends responded in an unkind manner. But all I did was ask what response they feared their friends would have if they confided to them instead of anonymously here. No one fears that their friends are going to be happy for them. A real friend is going to be concerned and not want the OP to get hurt. So, I want to understand the fear of telling friends about it. Its good that you trusted your friends enough to share your concerns with them. The questions were geared towards those that have said that they can't speak to friends, for whatever reason. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 There seems to be a lot of talk on the forum that if a poster is not seeking support, or being disparaging about those involved in affairs, then their discussion threads should be considered to be 'seeking validation'. Because I don't understand which posts are being referred to, or WHY it's being said, I am genuinely interested in posters showing me. I may not agree as to the reasoning, but at the moment I literally have no clue as to why it's being said. And it would be lovely if responses weren't typical smart-ass one-liners; I'm looking to engage sincerely and widen my horizons here. This isn't a mickey-take. Links to posts, and quotes, would be appreciated. I was curious about this very thing, and I've yet to see links or quotes. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I was curious about this very thing, and I've yet to see links or quotes. Me too. I suspect it's a strategy concocted by a small clique of posters who wish to discredit or undermine the views of others who don't share their views. I've yet to see any evidence to the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I suspect it's a strategy concocted by a small clique of posters who wish to discredit or undermine the views of others who don't share their views. I would agree that this appears to have become a common tactic on this forum. It seems to be happening pretty much daily. It seems that there's a definite intent to "rally the troops" and "create a united front" against those of an opposite viewpoint. Its happening on both "sides" with great frequency. This thread is a prime example of this. Link to post Share on other sites
jthorne Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) This thread is a prime example of this.Indeed. These so-called "discussion" threads support no one, they just perpetuate the derision on the board. (And seem to always be started by one "side.") So I have to ask why they are started in the first place. Why the need for the united front? Are they so insecure in their relationships that they need a outwardly cohesive unit? Perhaps they are simply seeking validation from each other? And why would anyone risk infraction just to satisfy someone else's curiosity? Edited March 29, 2011 by jthorne Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Why would I bother writing the OP if i wasn't genuinely interested in understanding why these things are being said? I just hoped that those who make the claim might be able to enlighten me, but as you can see from jthorne's post, people are happy to allude to things but not actually have a straight-up exchange of info and opinions. When one reads a thread where it is crystal clear that the OP thought they were better than others who don't have two MM, of course we're going to come to a conclusion. Validation seeking, plain and simple. And that's only one example. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I suspect my view is naive and unrealistic. But if people want to make a stand they should join a protest group, arrange marches and mass-communications. Not pick on an individual who is baring their soul on an internet forum that is designed for the use of people in THEIR situation. If a person wants to talk about affairs in a 100% positive and supportive online environment, there are forums just for that purpose. LoveShack is OPEN to all of us. We can weigh in on any thread in any forum, as long as we respect the TOS. I'm not looking for dating; I feel free to frequently contribute to the dating forum. I have experience, opinions and interest there, as I do here. If this is not suitable for an individual, then why would they continue to post here when there are "closed" pro-affair boards available? Why don't YOU go arrange some pro-affair marches and mass communications rather than sitting around posting on an Internet forum? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 I would agree that this appears to have become a common tactic on this forum. It seems to be happening pretty much daily. It seems that there's a definite intent to "rally the troops" and "create a united front" against those of an opposite viewpoint. Its happening on both "sides" with great frequency. This thread is a prime example of this. You are so very wrong here Owl. I genuinely have a desire to bridge the gap, if only for myself. I have had really rewarding discussions in the past with Turnstone, and Snowflower, and Sid, and Herenow and many others. Because instead of scatterbombing with slightly sarcastic remarks which were not pertinent, they engaged. They took time to get in to the subject, to explain their point of view, and to listen to mine. I rate that. And it certainly helped my understanding. My SO of 8 years gave me much experience of infidelity, but it was a different experience compared to what many BSs here have experienced. I would love the blanket insults to cease to be used, and for discussions to be more valuable as a result. There's quite a few posters who have rather a lot to say, until someone actually tries to converse with them politely about their views. I think that's a shame. I may well benefit from their feedback if there was less in the way of 'drive-by' posting and more intelligent contribution. You've actually offended me Owl, genuinely, by suggesting my motivation was not sincere and it was some sort of 'warfare' tactic. Ah well... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 If a person wants to talk about affairs in a 100% positive and supportive online environment, there are forums just for that purpose. LoveShack is OPEN to all of us. We can weigh in on any thread in any forum, as long as we respect the TOS. I'm not looking for dating; I feel free to frequently contribute to the dating forum. I have experience, opinions and interest there, as I do here. If this is not suitable for an individual, then why would they continue to post here when there are "closed" pro-affair boards available? Why don't YOU go arrange some pro-affair marches and mass communications rather than sitting around posting on an Internet forum? The OW board doesn't have to be pro-affair, but it's a bit daft to try and make it anti-OW!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 SG, I apologize sincerely if I've offended you. I will tell you that I do honestly feel that there are concerted, intentional attacks that occur from both sides of the "divide". There have been a number of posts on this particular thread that show what I'm talking about...again...from BOTH sides of the fence. I apologize if what I said offended you personally...that wasn't my intent. What I said about the 'battle lines' that I've seen here on LS is still my opinion based on what I've seen. Hopefully things around here will take a turn for the better soon, and we'll all have a much more positive experience here on LS. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The OW board doesn't have to be pro-affair, but it's a bit daft to try and make it anti-OW!!! So...who here is making it "anti-OW"? Could you post threads/posts that support your view on this? (I don't honestly expect a response to this...but can you see how being "put on the spot" like that is a tactic designed to set someone up?) Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 The OW board doesn't have to be pro-affair, but it's a bit daft to try and make it anti-OW!!! I don't think it's an "anti-OW" thing but more an "anti sneaking around, lying, cheating, deceiving" kind of thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 So in an effort to go back on topic... I'd posted earlier in this thread that I feel that most posters either come here initally seeking "support" (trying to ask for answers to questions, get advice or recommendations, etc...) or they come here to troll. Giving this some thought...I can also see where some come for "validation". They come here with the intent to interact with others "in the same situation"...and truly hoping to get no more out of it than the feeling that "others are doing it so it makes it (ok/acceptable/less bad/insert concept here)". I'm genuinely curious what other motivations people come here with? How deeply have people truly considered what motivated them to come here? Do most posters even truly think through why they came, what they're hoping to gain from posting here? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 So...who here is making it "anti-OW"? Could you post threads/posts that support your view on this? (I don't honestly expect a response to this...but can you see how being "put on the spot" like that is a tactic designed to set someone up?) Oh Owl! Yes... There's the 'lying POS' style posts, and 'you deserve everything you get' type attacks. There's aspersions cast on the entire character of an OW at times, yet I imagine there are some 'terrible' OWs who are WONDERFUL mums, daughters, friends, businesswomen etc. Yes. I find it hard to understand why that's permitted. But I also see the unfairness in an OW board, but not a BS board... Thanks for the sorry, not necessary... but appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Oh Owl! Yes... There's the 'lying POS' style posts, I've only seen this phrase used on conjunction with the MM/MW. and 'you deserve everything you get' type attacks. There's aspersions cast on the entire character of an OW at times, yet I imagine there are some 'terrible' OWs who are WONDERFUL mums, daughters, friends, businesswomen etc. Yes. I find it hard to understand why that's permitted. But I also see the unfairness in an OW board, but not a BS board... Thanks for the sorry, not necessary... but appreciated. But it makes no difference to the people who have been hurt what OTHER things that someone does that does NOT hurt a person. Of course a MM/MW or an OW/OM doesn't go through their day disregarding every single person or thing in their path. To do so would only serve to make THEIR life miserable. However, when one disregards the potential emotional pain they are causing in deference to one's own selfish wants, that paints a pretty vivid picture in the minds of many people. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Oh Owl! Yes... There's the 'lying POS' style posts, and 'you deserve everything you get' type attacksBoth of these are clear violations of TOS...rather than fight them...report them. Its your only 'authorized' method for dealing with them.. There's aspersions cast on the entire character of an OW at times, yet I imagine there are some 'terrible' OWs who are WONDERFUL mums, daughters, friends, businesswomen etc(also violation of TOS...see above). Yes. I find it hard to understand why that's permitted (it's not...but Tony doesn't scan the boards, he relies on posters reporting violations for him to take action...so report them if you want them to stop). But I also see the unfairness in an OW board, but not a BS board... Thanks for the sorry, not necessary... but appreciated. Pretty much straightforward if you think about it. I know people don't like reporting...they feel like tattle tales or something. But it's the ONLY 'authorized' method for dealing with these kinds of issues...anything else just sets yourself up for being moderated (take it from someone who has learned this the hard way!). I agree that no one should have to post here and accept personal attacks because of being an OW/OM/BS/whatever. This doesn't mean that they can expect to post without hearing opinions contrary to their own...at least not here on LS. It does mean that if they're attacked something should be done to stop it. Opposite views/opinions/etc... are all allowed under the TOS. As long as it's done respectfully and within the guidelines of the TOS...which does not permit personal attacks. There's a difference between those two things, as I know you're aware. Link to post Share on other sites
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