Does the BS NOT want to know?

[bentnotbroken]

Carrie.....if I were you I'd think less about IF she knows or not but more about what might happen if she DOES without a doubt find out. The usual scenario is that the OW gets thrown under the bus and you are going to have one very, very pissed off wife which is complicated by the fact that she sees you as a friend, and she very well may be out for your blood. It could and probably will get very, very ugly.

 

 

Some BS get very pissy. You may not want to know how pissy. Though at least one new poster unfortunately is finding it out.

[blueroses10]

My mother befriended my father's affair partner without knowing it. She just always thought he would never do that to her. Your BS probably thinks the same.

 

It may be naive. But that's the truth.

 

You are really sucker-punching her. I think you know it too and want to think she is just letting it all go.

 

I agree with this post. She probably has no clue and considers you a friend. If this affair is brought to light, it will destroy her as a person. Finding out that your spouse had an affair with someone you consider a friend or even someone you know is devastating. Not only are you betrayed by your H but you are also betrayed by a friend which makes you question every decision you make.

 

Not to mention, it will be hard for her to trust people after this, especially other females.

[dreamingoftigers]

I agree with this post. She probably has no clue and considers you a friend. If this affair is brought to light, it will destroy her as a person. Finding out that your spouse had an affair with someone you consider a friend or even someone you know is devastating. Not only are you betrayed by your H but you are also betrayed by a friend which makes you question every decision you make.

 

Not to mention, it will be hard for her to trust people after this, especially other females.

 

My god no kidding, I had trouble trusting my husband to give my friend of 10 years a ride to the store!

[confused woman23]

When I first spoke to my H's FOW she was absolutely floored that I didn't know about the affair. She said to me several times "I can't believe you didn't know" and "I thought you were just looking the other way". I also saw this sentiment expressed in some of their correspondence.

 

As far as FOW is concerned based on what I read of their correspondence I am convinced that her belief that I MUST know or suspect was pretty self serving and was a way of alleviating their own guilt. It let them think that I was a somewhat active participant in the affair that my H's was very concerned with keeping a secret.

 

I wish I could say I knew and was just strategically ignoring it until I was ready to deal.

 

Truth is, I was completely blindsided.

 

Truth is, I completely trusted my husband. I absolutely believed he loved me (he does). I completely believed in his expressed and demonstrated values. I believed in his character and integrity. I believed in the man that I thought he was. The man that I had known for most of his adult life.

 

I trusted him not to hurt me.

 

And because I trusted him I made it very easy for him to cheat. I never checked up on him. Never looked at his phone. Never checked the phone bill. Never looked at his emails or checked the computer history.

 

If she reacts to his going out with you the same way she reacted to him going out with his guy friends it probably means she trusts him. She can't imagine that he would ever cheat on her.

 

And if she considers YOU a friend when she doesn't make friends easily, then she probably trusts you too.

PhoenixRise you sound just like me i guess i made it so easy for my H to cheat on me as well cuz i never did any snooping prior to the cheating either so i guess thats why i didnt know or suspected anything cuz nothing had changed with us he was so sweet and caring like he usually was and things between us were always great until the day i found out about other females still never would admit he had sex with them but im over it now...he told me hell never tell me what happened so just stop asking were going through some really messed up **** right now but i guess all was expected with us since my first post "husband cheated too many times" keep me posted

[whichwayisup]

Carrie, does your SO know you're cheating on him? Is he clueless? Do you lie to him, convince him that you love him and everything is okay? That there's no need for him to mistrust you? Would he be shocked to find out that you are having an affair with a MM?

[TinaniT]

In a very real way, it makes it harder for him to leave without either coming clean, or at least having to be completely honest about it being HIS choice, not hers.

 

 

She TRUSTS him completely. It leads a suspicion that at home, things are very good.

 

 

And you do NOT want to be with someone who doesn't leave because of his choice but because he was forced. That would not be good.

 

Good luck.

[Emme]

Interesting POV, Emme, and an excellent example and poignant truth, at that.

 

However, I'm fairly certain her husband is not there to stay, with or without my involvement in his life. If nothing else, I have completely shifted his perspective long before I fell for him or he fell for me. He's very traditional in a deeper sense than I can convey, and his infidelity (more aptly than ME as a person) made him question his marriage and how he ended up where he is. He realized so much about himself and the fact that he married for stability, not love...and that their marriage only provided stability as long as they both never changed or grew in any way. Suffice it to say that while one grew and the other did not, their marriage suffered slowly.

 

Maybe he won't leave. Maybe he'll feel overwhelmed by his responsibility to provide for her in every sense of the word. Maybe he'll reconcile himself to his duty and obligation, and sacrifice his own happiness. But he's started to understand that by doing so all these years, he hasn't helped her, either...he's only allowed her to stagnate and grow more dependent on him, which saddens him. He feels that the very nature of their relationship in their adult lives has stultified her growth, and that the more he has worked to help her grow, the more she's depended on him to tell her what to do next.

 

Maybe MC will help this. She actively resists that and any form of counseling. Who knows? Maybe you're right. Or maybe they'll split up, and he and I will too...only time will tell.

 

The only thing you are certain of is that you are in an affair with this man. Don't think you know anything beyond that. Peope get married and stay in a relationship for all the wrong reasons. Like I said some prefer the way their partner looks on paper.

 

Everyone is brain washed. I swear all those hookers people like to look down on would be the real housewives. Yes I said it! All the prudes would sitting on the side line. People fall for others that they feel are acceptable by societies standards. But trust me if husbands could be with Becky the stripper ... that's who he'd be with.

 

Carrie just remember you know nothing. I am always amazed by people shocking the hell out of me. You never truly know a person.

[half_ofa_heart]

Carrie

 

This all sounds waaaaaay too close for my comfort. And everyone's posts are making me see things all the better. My MM’s wife was not my friend when the affair started. In fact, I had never seen her before in my life. It wasn’t until a year into the relationship when someone sent her an anonymous phone call followed by a letter that she made it a point to meet me. I am not proud of this but we both gaslighted her and convinced her it wasn’t true. She felt horrible for accusing me and subsequently became my friend. I felt and continue to feel like the worst kind of person and am still working on trying to be a better person.

 

Not sure if this was/is her intent but what being her friend has done has made me feel EVEN worse than I did in the beginning. With each endearing email, FB post, text, I can’t stand it. I generally really do like her and keep thinking that I would NEVER, EVER, EVER do this to one of my friends and I do consider her a friend now. I see MM less than I used to and have always been working towards ending it. It wasn’t until she started making a true effort to talk to me more that I realized I’m in WAY over my head

 

Last week, I finally made an appointment to see a therapist. Tomorrow is my Birthday and I’ve come up with an excuse and now am not going to see MM. Honestly… as much as I love MM, I look at both of them and if I knew them both like I know them now, I would choose my relationship with her over my relationship with him hands down

 

I know she still has her doubts as to whether anything happened between us and he tells me she brings it up occasionally but much like me, I think she generally likes me so doesn’t want to think about it. If I had to compare my situation to yours… I’d have to say that she absolutely does not know and trusts both of you. Most of us tend to live under the “innocent until proven guilty” umbrella and as of now, you both are still innocent. I cannot believe that anyone would knowingly allow their spouse to have an affair.

[carrie999]

Carrie, does your SO know you're cheating on him? Is he clueless? Do you lie to him, convince him that you love him and everything is okay? That there's no need for him to mistrust you? Would he be shocked to find out that you are having an affair with a MM?

 

WWIU, you're not the first to ask this question. I'll try to be brief in explaining the status of my relationship with my fiance. Please bear with me.

 

From the time he proposed, nearly two years ago, he has been disinterested in our wedding plans to an extent that caused significant concern to me. At first, I chalked it up to a combination of three things: his own stress with school, pre-wedding jitters, and being male...meaning that some men would prefer to be consulted only about one or two things about the wedding, and would otherwise prefer to have it planned for them and show up. But I was never the typical bride-to-be, and quite honestly wanted his input. If I ever do get married, I'm happy with a simple backyard party with good food, music, drinks, and the people we love. Even my brother-in-law commented about his lack of interest in the most basic aspects of the wedding.

 

Our relationship was on a slow decline long before the A started. It became very apparent to me when I first kissed MM months before we pursued eachother. I spent those months (a relative time of relaxation for my fiance) working on our R. I became frustrated by his unwillingness to see why I was apprehensive and unhappy with him, and eventually detached a little. I focused on my career, my friends, and my family. Shortly thereafter, the A began.

 

It's impossible to paint an accurate picture without going on and on. My fiance is a wonderful man who (despite his distance in certain ways) is treating me better than I deserve...meaning that he's faithful and loving to me. For reasons that would take too long to enumerate, we're still not right for eachother. Maybe he needs a few years to develop his career and be ready to start a marriage and a family, but I'm not in love with him enough to wait it out. We've had conversations that have included these ideas without explicitly stating them.

 

What happens when we talk seriously about us is this: he ends the conversation by saying he just needs to get through school (graduating in May) before he can think about anything else.

 

He once asked me about my relationship with MM. He noticed that he and I interact like we've known eachother forever. I told him that I feel very close to him and that I love him very much, and he ended the conversation pretty much at that moment. I asked him what he thought and what he wanted, and he said he just needed me to be there to get him through the last few months of school, and we'd talk more then.

 

I know that what I'm doing is wrong and that he deserves much better than this. I'm fairly certain he knows exactly that, and that he needs me to support him for now. So I'm respecting his wishes. It's not exactly what I want, but I don't know how else to navigate these murky waters...I'm doing my best.

[carrie999]

Carrie

 

This all sounds waaaaaay too close for my comfort. And everyone's posts are making me see things all the better. My MM’s wife was not my friend when the affair started. In fact, I had never seen her before in my life. It wasn’t until a year into the relationship when someone sent her an anonymous phone call followed by a letter that she made it a point to meet me. I am not proud of this but we both gaslighted her and convinced her it wasn’t true. She felt horrible for accusing me and subsequently became my friend. I felt and continue to feel like the worst kind of person and am still working on trying to be a better person.

 

Not sure if this was/is her intent but what being her friend has done has made me feel EVEN worse than I did in the beginning. With each endearing email, FB post, text, I can’t stand it. I generally really do like her and keep thinking that I would NEVER, EVER, EVER do this to one of my friends and I do consider her a friend now. I see MM less than I used to and have always been working towards ending it. It wasn’t until she started making a true effort to talk to me more that I realized I’m in WAY over my head

 

Last week, I finally made an appointment to see a therapist. Tomorrow is my Birthday and I’ve come up with an excuse and now am not going to see MM. Honestly… as much as I love MM, I look at both of them and if I knew them both like I know them now, I would choose my relationship with her over my relationship with him hands down

 

I know she still has her doubts as to whether anything happened between us and he tells me she brings it up occasionally but much like me, I think she generally likes me so doesn’t want to think about it. If I had to compare my situation to yours… I’d have to say that she absolutely does not know and trusts both of you. Most of us tend to live under the “innocent until proven guilty” umbrella and as of now, you both are still innocent. I cannot believe that anyone would knowingly allow their spouse to have an affair.

 

Oh, Half, I completely understand how you feel, and really appreciate that you understand my point of view.

 

It comes down to this: either she knows something is up but doesn't want to go down that rabbit hole, or she really trusts BOTH of us. Neither option looks good to me. Whether or not the affair is revealed, I feel awful about her position.

 

If she knows, well...ugh. I've been there only once. I never cheated or was betrayed, as far as I know. But I suspected an ex-boyfriend's intentions and started secretly checking his email and phone and internet history. I broke up with him shortly thereafter because I hated being so suspicious and paranoid. I wasn't married to him. It was painful, but at least I could walk away feeling good about my decision.

 

If she trusts us, that's equally awful...for her and (selfishly) for me. I've never deceived anyone. If I've gained someone's trust, whether or not I earned it, it was still at least worth something. I never doubted that anyone could trust me. She clearly cannot. And while I understand how you'd choose your MM's BS's friendship over your A with him, I can't say that given the choice between them as friends (and nothing more), I'd choose her. In an alternate universe where the three of us are friends, his friendship (minus the relationship or promise for a future) is more valuable to me.

 

I suppose I keep wondering because I'm trying to decide if any of this heartache is worth it. Thanks for your insight. I'm sorry for what you are going through, too :-(

[half_ofa_heart]

Oh, Half, I completely understand how you feel, and really appreciate that you understand my point of view.

 

It comes down to this: either she knows something is up but doesn't want to go down that rabbit hole, or she really trusts BOTH of us. Neither option looks good to me. Whether or not the affair is revealed, I feel awful about her position.

 

If she knows, well...ugh. I've been there only once. I never cheated or was betrayed, as far as I know. But I suspected an ex-boyfriend's intentions and started secretly checking his email and phone and internet history. I broke up with him shortly thereafter because I hated being so suspicious and paranoid. I wasn't married to him. It was painful, but at least I could walk away feeling good about my decision.

 

If she trusts us, that's equally awful...for her and (selfishly) for me. I've never deceived anyone. If I've gained someone's trust, whether or not I earned it, it was still at least worth something. I never doubted that anyone could trust me. She clearly cannot. And while I understand how you'd choose your MM's BS's friendship over your A with him, I can't say that given the choice between them as friends (and nothing more), I'd choose her. In an alternate universe where the three of us are friends, his friendship (minus the relationship or promise for a future) is more valuable to me.

 

I suppose I keep wondering because I'm trying to decide if any of this heartache is worth it. Thanks for your insight. I'm sorry for what you are going through, too :-(

 

 

Carrie,

 

I'm not sure how long your affair has gone on but my decision is solely based on how much pain I suffer and continue to suffer because he is married. He is very selfish and cannot let me go. I struggle every day with my love for him and doing what is right!!! He knows this and still can't ease my pain by simply letting me go.

 

She is oblivious to my pain and always is more thann kind to me. They have major problems and perhaps she should concentrate more on mending their marriage then making new friends. But, perhaps HE should put in more effort into their marriage instead putting in the effort to stay with me. Either way, neither of these have to do with me except for the fact that I'm allowing it include me.

 

Knowing very little about your relationship with her or with him, I still think she has no idea and just trusts both of you. I'm sure he leads her to believe that he has no interest in you sexually and he's never given her reason to believe otherwise so again, innocent until proven guilty.

 

I'm soooo confused about my situation that I am hardly a credible source, all I'm saying is I'd hate to see you thrown under the bus like so many other of us have been. Just don't be paranoid and really think about everything.

 

I hope things work out for you one way or the other and hopefully you can see things more clearly... I hope the same for myself someday.

 

Hugs

[NoIDidn't]

I may have missed it in previous threads, but where has Carrie said that MM and his W are sexless?????

 

I am leaning more towards that the W simply doesn't know. I have a good friend and I know more about her H's exploits than I would ever tell her. We all wonder how she could NOT know, but we have settled on the fact that either she really doesn't know or she is even more sinister than he is.

 

I prefer to believe that she doesn't know. She doesn't come across as having a sinister bone in her body. Many of the former OW attend her church and are considered good friends of her, and they consider her a good friend too. Most ended the flings with her H once they befriended her. She's very genuine.

 

And I have to say I know their marriage is not sexless. It may not be as frequent as they would both like, but its nowhere near non-existent. And I second TinaniT that things must be going well for them at home, regardless of what MM tells you, if she really doesn't know. That suggests to me that there is love, sex, some laughter and a good friendship underlying their marriage.

 

Not a good place for an OW hoping for a divorce to free the MM from the W.

[dreamingoftigers]

I may have missed it in previous threads, but where has Carrie said that MM and his W are sexless?????

 

I am leaning more towards that the W simply doesn't know. I have a good friend and I know more about her H's exploits than I would ever tell her. We all wonder how she could NOT know, but we have settled on the fact that either she really doesn't know or she is even more sinister than he is.

 

I prefer to believe that she doesn't know. She doesn't come across as having a sinister bone in her body. Many of the former OW attend her church and are considered good friends of her, and they consider her a good friend too. Most ended the flings with her H once they befriended her. She's very genuine.

 

And I have to say I know their marriage is not sexless. It may not be as frequent as they would both like, but its nowhere near non-existent. And I second TinaniT that things must be going well for them at home, regardless of what MM tells you, if she really doesn't know. That suggests to me that there is love, sex, some laughter and a good friendship underlying their marriage.

 

Not a good place for an OW hoping for a divorce to free the MM from the W.

 

Why doesn't anyone tell her?

[mittens22]

How bad is this?

Before I explain, I know that what I'm about to describe is morally wrong, and would cause major problems if anyone found out about it. The quick version is that I'm married and I've gotten involved with a married friend. We're all part of a large group of friends, which makes it much riskier if anyone finds out. We all get together maybe once a month and usually make it an overnight visit, since we live far apart.

 

When we spend time with this other couple, we're the last ones to go to sleep, and we've always stayed up just hanging out and talking. Recently, this guy and I ended up kissing and were pretty shocked at our behavior. The next time, it went a little further and I felt horrible about it. I'm not "that type," and I've never cheated or even lied to anyone I've ever dated, much less my husband. But as I played it over in my head, flogging myself for my bad behavior, something strange happened: it didn't feel THAT wrong. And it only made me appreciate my husband more.

 

This time, after everyone went to bed, we decided to talk about what happened last time. And we found ourselves on the same page--somehow we didn't hate ourselves, and we were surprised that we could rationalize what happened. We decided to just enjoy hanging out...but ended up intimate again.

 

This is really confusing for me. I have no doubts about my relationship or his. Neither of us would leave our spouses, and we're both really happy. Of course, clearly *something* is "wrong" if we're willing to stray, but I honestly have no gripes about my life and wouldn't change anything about my relationship. Neither would he. But now we're both enjoying this "secret rendezvous" between us.

 

It's stirring up so many questions within me, and shaking my moral framework. If nobody knows but us, and it's not hurting our relationships with our spouses, is it really that awful? That's a rhetorical question--I know dishonesty in a relationship (even in the absence of infidelity) is dangerous. I know the answer to this.

 

But I can't help myself, and I can't help wondering if monogamy is antiquated or not natural for most people.

 

In my line of work, I've learned a lot about people that they wouldn't tell their best friends, or even an anonymous survey. I've found that infidelity is common, and I wonder how terrible this kind of situation really is if both parties are otherwise committed and not planning to leave their spouses or pursue a deeper relationship.

 

We've developed a relationship that (without even physical intimacy) transcends friendship. We finish each other's sentences, and thoughts. We don't need to say much, and we can communicate a lot at length in front of our friends and spouses.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i am confused you said in first post you were married now you say your engaged could you clarify

[Silly_Girl]

I may have missed it in previous threads, but where has Carrie said that MM and his W are sexless?????

 

I am leaning more towards that the W simply doesn't know. I have a good friend and I know more about her H's exploits than I would ever tell her. We all wonder how she could NOT know, but we have settled on the fact that either she really doesn't know or she is even more sinister than he is.

 

I prefer to believe that she doesn't know. She doesn't come across as having a sinister bone in her body. Many of the former OW attend her church and are considered good friends of her, and they consider her a good friend too. Most ended the flings with her H once they befriended her. She's very genuine.

 

SINISTER?

 

What do you mean, NID?

[woinlove]

There is often a lot of rationalization involved in maintaining an affair and much more so when the BS is a friend too. Half_ofa_heart, it sounds like you have come a long way in being honest with yourself about the situation and in seeking help. I hope your therapist is a good one and that you are soon in a happier place, loving yourself and being who and how you want to be.

 

Carrie, it seems to me that you are in a very difficult situation right now, having convinced yourself that everyone is better off without knowing the truth. Under those circumstances, it seems almost impossible to be honest with oneself and without that, I don't think it is ever possible to be the best one can be. Your view of things has changed a lot as your affair has progressed and maybe honesty, with yourself and others, will play a larger role in the future. I hope so, because I believe the alternative takes a significant toll on one's self worth, whether you realize it at the time or not.

[SummersEve]

Honestly from what I've seen, an affair partner almost always overestimates their place. A married guy who wants to cheat is less picky than he'd be for a real relationship. He only wants a need filled, and he has limited chances, and limited partners because most women won't do it. The affair partner doesn't have a clue about his real motives or marriage but often has a distorted view of herself as knowing the "real" him. He is usually someone who would be out of her league on the open market. She is disposable to him. This has surprised me several times with people I've known IRL through the years. I would have expected the affair partner to be a better catch than the spouse but usually not. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just the few I have known? (mostly the man has been married and the woman single). When they get caught, they go to MC and work it out. AP has been immediately dumped all the ones (4) I've known. After all, if he had wanted to leave he'd be having a divorce instead of an affair.

 

I doubt any wife would be this naive to send the two of you off camping overnight together. My guess is the wife has somebody else or else the two of them had decided on it together. She doesn't see you as much of a threat.

 

But whatever her stance, does it change your own actions? That's how I read it too, that you want to view yourself in a better light.

Edited March 30, 2011 by SummersEve

[fooled once]

When I first spoke to my H's FOW she was absolutely floored that I didn't know about the affair. She said to me several times "I can't believe you didn't know" and "I thought you were just looking the other way". I also saw this sentiment expressed in some of their correspondence.

 

As far as FOW is concerned based on what I read of their correspondence I am convinced that her belief that I MUST know or suspect was pretty self serving and was a way of alleviating their own guilt. It let them think that I was a somewhat active participant in the affair that my H's was very concerned with keeping a secret.

 

I wish I could say I knew and was just strategically ignoring it until I was ready to deal.

 

Truth is, I was completely blindsided.

 

Truth is, I completely trusted my husband. I absolutely believed he loved me (he does). I completely believed in his expressed and demonstrated values. I believed in his character and integrity. I believed in the man that I thought he was. The man that I had known for most of his adult life.

 

I trusted him not to hurt me.

 

And because I trusted him I made it very easy for him to cheat. I never checked up on him. Never looked at his phone. Never checked the phone bill. Never looked at his emails or checked the computer history.

 

If she reacts to his going out with you the same way she reacted to him going out with his guy friends it probably means she trusts him. She can't imagine that he would ever cheat on her.

 

And if she considers YOU a friend when she doesn't make friends easily, then she probably trusts you too.

 

Great post Phoenix

 

I may have missed it in previous threads, but where has Carrie said that MM and his W are sexless?????

 

I am leaning more towards that the W simply doesn't know. I have a good friend and I know more about her H's exploits than I would ever tell her. We all wonder how she could NOT know, but we have settled on the fact that either she really doesn't know or she is even more sinister than he is.

 

I prefer to believe that she doesn't know. She doesn't come across as having a sinister bone in her body. Many of the former OW attend her church and are considered good friends of her, and they consider her a good friend too. Most ended the flings with her H once they befriended her. She's very genuine.

 

And I have to say I know their marriage is not sexless. It may not be as frequent as they would both like, but its nowhere near non-existent. And I second TinaniT that things must be going well for them at home, regardless of what MM tells you, if she really doesn't know. That suggests to me that there is love, sex, some laughter and a good friendship underlying their marriage.

 

Not a good place for an OW hoping for a divorce to free the MM from the W.

 

Yeah, I noticed how everyone has decided that the wife has withdrawn sexually or isn't interested in sex so therefore, it is only right that he run out and have an affair.

 

I don't believe the wife knows. I believe the wife trusts her husband (and how stupid do you think she is going to feel when she finds out how you two chose to have an affair and basically rub it in her nose). I mean, that is just low.

 

I think you WANT her to know so she will throw him out because I don't think he is going to leave. You WANT her to end it. You WANT her to know. You WANT her to kick him to the curb so you can pick him up.

 

The fact that you are also justifying the affair by saying you are doing 'right' by your boyfriend to not have a truly decent conversation until HE finishes with school again is all about you being concerned only about you.

 

And comparing a BOYFRIEND cheating on you vs a wife being betrayed by her spouse is ridiculous, IMHO. You didn't build a life with someone and then find out they are a liar and a cheat. You didn't plan a future with someone and find out they have no honor and no respect.

 

If you are so sure of this MM, then out the affair to everyone. But see, I think you know deep down he isn't leaving the marriage - not for you. You know it, which is why you want her to know so she will kick him out. The fact that there is a semi-friendship and you use that to continue to spend time with HER husband is really twisted, IMHO. You have no idea what he tells his wife. You have no idea if he tells her that you are nothing more than a hiking buddy, that he finds you to be unpleasant to the eye, that you have character flaws he can't get past, etc. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what goes on in their home, except for what the liar tells you.

 

Both of you are behaving really poorly. The fact that you basically state you flaunt your 'relationship' in her face is really sad. I pity you because you so desperately want this guy to "pick you" that you are willing to continue to portray yourself as a 'friend' to this woman. This woman who has done NOTHING to you. She married a man a long time ago. She has planned a life with him. She has a past with him. And you knowingly decide you want this guy and you will do whatever it takes to get this guy - even to the point of outing yourself just so she knows you got her man. I think you truly truly hate that he keeps you as a side secret and it infuriates you that he hasn't left for you yet. I would even suspect that you have dropped hints or done something to make sure she knows you are having an affair with him.

 

What happened to HONESTY? Why can't the two of you be HONEST with your partners and stop all this crap? That is what is so pitiful that innocent people are going to be hurt because of selfish actions of others.

 

I guarantee you -- most women would prefer divorce to a cheater. Any day of the week. Notice I said "MOST", not all.

[Carrot2000]

Carrie, this man is telling you and his wife the same thing.

 

He tells you he loves you and has this amazing connection with you. Then he has sex with you.

 

He tells his wife he loves her and has this amazing connection with her. Then he has sex with her.

 

Why would she suspect something is happening between the two of you when her husband is gas lighting her? Clearly he minimizes you, probably tells her that you are nothing more than a friend and that he doesn't even find you all that attractive. He might go as far as to point out your physical imperfections to prove that he would never even consider being with you sexually. I'm sure he also reminds her that you have a fiance, so there's no way anything could possibly be going on between you two.

 

Please give me the wife's email so I can let her know what's going on in her life since neither of you feel it necessary to clue her in. When the $hit hits the fan, you may find that things arent quite the way you see them to be.

[NoIDidn't]

SINISTER?

 

What do you mean, NID?

 

If you check the dictionary, you'll find what you are looking for. I used the word twice in the same context.

[carrie999]

Carrie,

 

I'm not sure how long your affair has gone on but my decision is solely based on how much pain I suffer and continue to suffer because he is married. He is very selfish and cannot let me go. I struggle every day with my love for him and doing what is right!!! He knows this and still can't ease my pain by simply letting me go.

 

She is oblivious to my pain and always is more thann kind to me. They have major problems and perhaps she should concentrate more on mending their marriage then making new friends. But, perhaps HE should put in more effort into their marriage instead putting in the effort to stay with me. Either way, neither of these have to do with me except for the fact that I'm allowing it include me.

 

Knowing very little about your relationship with her or with him, I still think she has no idea and just trusts both of you. I'm sure he leads her to believe that he has no interest in you sexually and he's never given her reason to believe otherwise so again, innocent until proven guilty.

 

I'm soooo confused about my situation that I am hardly a credible source, all I'm saying is I'd hate to see you thrown under the bus like so many other of us have been. Just don't be paranoid and really think about everything.

 

I hope things work out for you one way or the other and hopefully you can see things more clearly... I hope the same for myself someday.

 

Hugs

 

Thanks Half. I really appreciate your insight, and hope to soon be where you are now. (((((Hugs))))) to you too!

[carrie999]

I may have missed it in previous threads' date=' but where has Carrie said that MM and his W are sexless?????[/b']

 

I am leaning more towards that the W simply doesn't know. I have a good friend and I know more about her H's exploits than I would ever tell her. We all wonder how she could NOT know, but we have settled on the fact that either she really doesn't know or she is even more sinister than he is.

 

I prefer to believe that she doesn't know. She doesn't come across as having a sinister bone in her body. Many of the former OW attend her church and are considered good friends of her, and they consider her a good friend too. Most ended the flings with her H once they befriended her. She's very genuine.

 

And I have to say I know their marriage is not sexless. It may not be as frequent as they would both like, but its nowhere near non-existent. And I second TinaniT that things must be going well for them at home, regardless of what MM tells you, if she really doesn't know. That suggests to me that there is love, sex, some laughter and a good friendship underlying their marriage.

 

Not a good place for an OW hoping for a divorce to free the MM from the W.

 

NID, they don't have a sexless marriage. When we finally broached the subject, it was at a time when he still was gaslighting HIMSELF and believed the marriage was happy. He said back then that they had sex about twice a month, and it was always initiated by him. When he admitted that to me, I had ripped the blinders off and made him think about why he cheated. I encouraged him to treat me like a friend first rather than an OW. He took that much more literally than I expected and gave me every detail. I could explain further if you want to know, but suffice it to say that I initiated NC (which was really very LC) for a while.

 

The sex talk came up again, and I told him I wasn't interested in the details of their sex life, and that I thought I made it clear that I had retracted that aspect of our "friends first" agreement. But he wanted to make it clear that he couldn't remember the last time they were intimate now that he has stopped initiating it entirely.

 

I never really needed to know those details. For me, (quoting some old silly movie that got this right) sex is 5% of the relationship when it works, and 95% when it doesn't. So while it matters to them, it's irrelevant to me. IF we end up together someday, I'll be open to talking about our sexual pasts. But since I am the OW, his sex life at present is not something I want to know...as long as it's with his wife. I've taken that risk already. If he's been involved with others, that is relevant to me.

 

I'm not hoping to free him from her. I am definitely hanging on in hopes that it somehow works out, but I know better than to think it will. All of your posts and responses to mine are helping me tremendously in keeping my head straight.

[carrie999]

i am confused you said in first post you were married now you say your engaged could you clarify

 

Mittens, thanks for reposting this, because I haven't looked back on my old posts. It's eerie looking back on my first post (I think?) and seeing how confused and deluded I was. Not that I've ended this or figured things out, but reading this now makes me realize that I have learned a lot from this board.

 

What surprises me is that I posted the exact interaction between us without editing it. Yes, I said I was married...but at that point I had never been on ANY board that dealt with relationships or affairs, and I was afraid I'd give enough away in terms of details that somebody, somewhere would recognize it was ME posting. I also figured that it was easier to call myself married, since I was supposed to be shortly, and it would eliminate another few paragraphs of explanation. I quickly figured out that this board is anonymous enough (at least MY friends don't know it) that I could be completely transparent.

 

So that is my original post here (EEK!) and aside from being engaged and not married, that's where I was last August. And here I am now, still posting...to hear what I need to hear to move on, and to vent about the mess I've created for myself. Thank you, truly, for giving me a glimpse into my where my head was at the beginning.

[carrie999]

There is often a lot of rationalization involved in maintaining an affair and much more so when the BS is a friend too. Half_ofa_heart, it sounds like you have come a long way in being honest with yourself about the situation and in seeking help. I hope your therapist is a good one and that you are soon in a happier place, loving yourself and being who and how you want to be.

 

Carrie, it seems to me that you are in a very difficult situation right now, having convinced yourself that everyone is better off without knowing the truth. Under those circumstances, it seems almost impossible to be honest with oneself and without that, I don't think it is ever possible to be the best one can be. Your view of things has changed a lot as your affair has progressed and maybe honesty, with yourself and others, will play a larger role in the future. I hope so, because I believe the alternative takes a significant toll on one's self worth, whether you realize it at the time or not.

 

Thanks, woinlove. You've been incredibly patient and thoughtful while I have muddled through this mess. Your words are not falling on deaf ears. I need to work through this on my own, to some degree. But your words and insights resound with me, and you are in many ways guiding me to the path that I need to take. I just haven't figured it out, fully.

[carrie999]

Honestly from what I've seen, an affair partner almost always overestimates their place. A married guy who wants to cheat is less picky than he'd be for a real relationship. He only wants a need filled, and he has limited chances, and limited partners because most women won't do it. The affair partner doesn't have a clue about his real motives or marriage but often has a distorted view of herself as knowing the "real" him. He is usually someone who would be out of her league on the open market. She is disposable to him. This has surprised me several times with people I've known IRL through the years. I would have expected the affair partner to be a better catch than the spouse but usually not. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just the few I have known? (mostly the man has been married and the woman single). When they get caught, they go to MC and work it out. AP has been immediately dumped all the ones (4) I've known. After all, if he had wanted to leave he'd be having a divorce instead of an affair.

 

I doubt any wife would be this naive to send the two of you off camping overnight together. My guess is the wife has somebody else or else the two of them had decided on it together. She doesn't see you as much of a threat.

 

But whatever her stance, does it change your own actions? That's how I read it too, that you want to view yourself in a better light.

 

Interesting POV, summerseve. I respectfully disagree. MM chose his wife because he couldn't imagine anyone else wanting to marry him. He never dated, and was very insecure when they married. He never wanted an affair, and struggled with his infidelity. He had a hard time recognizing that he got married very, very young because he needed a safety net. I'm not saying this to denigrate her in any way...I'm merely pointing out that he didn't take the time to learn about himself, or her, or what it takes to make a marriage work beyond sheer tenacity. He never considered whether they'd fulfill eachother, only that they both would "stick with it."

 

I will never get involved with a MM again, and I won't see myself in a better light. This is one of those situations I'll have to work to get past so that I don't think I'm an awful person. We all make mistakes, and we do things we're not proud of doing. Please do not presume that you know me, my intentions, or how I view this affair.