Does the BS NOT want to know?

[carrie999]

Great post Phoenix

 

 

 

Yeah, I noticed how everyone has decided that the wife has withdrawn sexually or isn't interested in sex so therefore, it is only right that he run out and have an affair.

 

I don't believe the wife knows. I believe the wife trusts her husband (and how stupid do you think she is going to feel when she finds out how you two chose to have an affair and basically rub it in her nose). I mean, that is just low.

 

I think you WANT her to know so she will throw him out because I don't think he is going to leave. You WANT her to end it. You WANT her to know. You WANT her to kick him to the curb so you can pick him up.

 

The fact that you are also justifying the affair by saying you are doing 'right' by your boyfriend to not have a truly decent conversation until HE finishes with school again is all about you being concerned only about you.

And comparing a BOYFRIEND cheating on you vs a wife being betrayed by her spouse is ridiculous, IMHO. You didn't build a life with someone and then find out they are a liar and a cheat. You didn't plan a future with someone and find out they have no honor and no respect.

 

If you are so sure of this MM, then out the affair to everyone. But see, I think you know deep down he isn't leaving the marriage - not for you. You know it, which is why you want her to know so she will kick him out. The fact that there is a semi-friendship and you use that to continue to spend time with HER husband is really twisted, IMHO. You have no idea what he tells his wife. You have no idea if he tells her that you are nothing more than a hiking buddy, that he finds you to be unpleasant to the eye, that you have character flaws he can't get past, etc. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what goes on in their home, except for what the liar tells you.

Both of you are behaving really poorly. The fact that you basically state you flaunt your 'relationship' in her face is really sad. I pity you because you so desperately want this guy to "pick you" that you are willing to continue to portray yourself as a 'friend' to this woman. This woman who has done NOTHING to you. She married a man a long time ago. She has planned a life with him. She has a past with him. And you knowingly decide you want this guy and you will do whatever it takes to get this guy - even to the point of outing yourself just so she knows you got her man. I think you truly truly hate that he keeps you as a side secret and it infuriates you that he hasn't left for you yet. I would even suspect that you have dropped hints or done something to make sure she knows you are having an affair with him.

 

What happened to HONESTY? Why can't the two of you be HONEST with your partners and stop all this crap? That is what is so pitiful that innocent people are going to be hurt because of selfish actions of others.

 

I guarantee you -- most women would prefer divorce to a cheater. Any day of the week. Notice I said "MOST", not all.

 

First bolded point: no, I don't want him "outed" at all. Second bolded point: wrong. Cheating isn't right or fair, period. What I'm doing to my fiance is not less wrong. We were planning a life together even if we never said our vows in front of others. I'm equally at fault. Third bolded point: yes, we are behaving poorly. You are correct about that.

 

I'm here to talk and hear stories and solutions and some criticism. Your venomous response had zero effect on me or how I feel about myself. The "awful people" like me respond more to people like Seren (and so many I cannot list) who show some degree of empathy and understanding while underlining the effect affairs have on betrayed spouses. That's the type of response that makes me think and try to change my behavior. When someone attacks me or someone else, I tend to move them into the "irrationally angry and vindictive" category, and essentially ignore most of what they have to say. I do, however, read such replies and take something from them, whereas most "awful OW's" probably just ignore them entirely. If you want to make a point rather than scolding, try reconsidering how you phrase things. You probably could influence people if you weren't so venomous.

[dreamingoftigers]

For your own sake:

 

This is incredibly messy for one person and if it were me I would extricate myself immediately.

 

A fiance on one hand, an MM on the other and a BS in tow who is apparently the only one entirely in the dark.

 

With four people in the mix there are at least two that are going to end up very hurt and there are up to four who are going to get explosive.

 

There is nothing about this MM that is so unique, special and irreplacable that would make this investment wise or the risk worth it.

 

I would strongly suggest ending both relationships and the friendship and moving on with your life in an entirely different direction before everyone in the situation moves you towards the exit in an unpleasant way.

[Silly_Girl]

If you check the dictionary' date=' you'll find what you are looking for. I used the word twice in the same context.[/quote']

 

I didn't ask for the dictionary definition. But, as you're in one of 'those' moods let me clarify the question:

 

Why would you suggest that she is acting in a sinister manner if she suspects her H's extra-curricular activity, but YOU see no evidence of a reaction from her?

[greengoddess]

NID, they don't have a sexless marriage. When we finally broached the subject, it was at a time when he still was gaslighting HIMSELF and believed the marriage was happy. He said back then that they had sex about twice a month, and it was always initiated by him. When he admitted that to me, I had ripped the blinders off and made him think about why he cheated. I encouraged him to treat me like a friend first rather than an OW. He took that much more literally than I expected and gave me every detail. I could explain further if you want to know, but suffice it to say that I initiated NC (which was really very LC) for a while.

 

The sex talk came up again, and I told him I wasn't interested in the details of their sex life, and that I thought I made it clear that I had retracted that aspect of our "friends first" agreement. But he wanted to make it clear that he couldn't remember the last time they were intimate now that he has stopped initiating it entirely.

 

I never really needed to know those details. For me, (quoting some old silly movie that got this right) sex is 5% of the relationship when it works, and 95% when it doesn't. So while it matters to them, it's irrelevant to me. IF we end up together someday, I'll be open to talking about our sexual pasts. But since I am the OW, his sex life at present is not something I want to know...as long as it's with his wife. I've taken that risk already. If he's been involved with others, that is relevant to me.

 

I'm not hoping to free him from her. I am definitely hanging on in hopes that it somehow works out, but I know better than to think it will. All of your posts and responses to mine are helping me tremendously in keeping my head straight.

 

Geeeez that's grounds for alienation of affection lawsuit. I hope you are not in such a state for your sake. How sweet of you to teach him his marriage was bad and explain to him that he was not really happy.

[melenkurion]

I agree with this post. She probably has no clue and considers you a friend. If this affair is brought to light, it will destroy her as a person. Finding out that your spouse had an affair with someone you consider a friend or even someone you know is devastating. Not only are you betrayed by your H but you are also betrayed by a friend which makes you question every decision you make.

 

Not to mention, it will be hard for her to trust people after this, especially other females.

 

That's very true. My ex had an affair with someone who was a friend of ours. I really had no idea. Well, at one point I did suspect, and asked outright, and they both told me I was imagining it. I'd heard them talking to each other while I had gone to bed early. They totally convinced me I had misheard it - I ended up feeling dreadfully sorry for the OM for the made-up story they came up with as a coverup for what was really going on. I'm not an idiot, but there are times when the truth is so awful that your brain does not allow you to see it. Besides, she is probably being gaslighted. That seems very typical from WS.

 

When I found out, because the OM was someone I considered a friend, my whole world fell apart. I'd spent time getting to know him, I'd sat up late in the night discussing his relationship troubles. It's six months after I found out, and I still feel like I can't trust anyone, and not just in the sense of a relationship.

[SummersEve]

Please do not presume that you know me, my intentions, or how I view this affair.

 

Nowhere did I presume to know you, your intentions, or your views on your affair. They are not important, it is how it is, not how you think it is. I do not think the presumptious one here is me, sorry.

[greengoddess]

Interesting POV, summerseve. I respectfully disagree. MM chose his wife because he couldn't imagine anyone else wanting to marry him. He never dated, and was very insecure when they married. He never wanted an affair, and struggled with his infidelity. He had a hard time recognizing that he got married very, very young because he needed a safety net. I'm not saying this to denigrate her in any way...I'm merely pointing out that he didn't take the time to learn about himself, or her, or what it takes to make a marriage work beyond sheer tenacity. He never considered whether they'd fulfill eachother, only that they both would "stick with it."

 

I will never get involved with a MM again, and I won't see myself in a better light. This is one of those situations I'll have to work to get past so that I don't think I'm an awful person. We all make mistakes, and we do things we're not proud of doing. Please do not presume that you know me, my intentions, or how I view this affair.

 

and you helped him figure all that out didn't you. Good for you! What a saviour you have been to this man.

[SummersEve]

and you helped him figure all that out didn't you. Good for you! What a saviour you have been to this man.

 

And a man who lies to his wife always tells the truth to his girlfriend. He is unhappy with his wife. He always was. In fact, he's leaving. Oh wait, no he's not. LOL.

 

Honestly, I think the rules are there for a reason. Yanno?

Edited March 31, 2011 by SummersEve

[greengoddess]

And a man who lies to his wife always tells the truth to his girlfriend. He is unhappy with his wife. He always was. In fact, he's leaving. Oh wait, no he's not. LOL.

 

Oh well, at least now he's got a girlfriend who can tell him all about what it takes to make a marriage work. ;o)

 

 

oh yes. I am sure they have a very mature love. Not one based on the only woman who would want to marry him when he was very very very young and insecure.

 

Good for you showing him his worth carrie. I'm sure his wife will aprreciate it.

[SummersEve]

oh yes. I am sure they have a very mature love. Not one based on the only woman who would want to marry him when he was very very very young and insecure.

 

Good for you showing him his worth carrie. I'm sure his wife will aprreciate it.

 

I hope they bring back the old alienation of affection laws more strongly. It is simply not right that a spouse and their gf/bf are free to mess in someone's mind and life behind their back like this. Hell, you go to jail for stealing someone's wallet or slapping their face, you know? I don't know how it should go exactly but this is just nasty. It's not like anybody isn't 100% free to walk out the door anytime they want. This is so unnecessary. These threads make me feel like I'm witnessing a crime. Eek.

Edited March 31, 2011 by SummersEve

[carrie999]

For your own sake:

 

This is incredibly messy for one person and if it were me I would extricate myself immediately.

 

A fiance on one hand, an MM on the other and a BS in tow who is apparently the only one entirely in the dark.

 

With four people in the mix there are at least two that are going to end up very hurt and there are up to four who are going to get explosive.

 

There is nothing about this MM that is so unique, special and irreplacable that would make this investment wise or the risk worth it.

 

I would strongly suggest ending both relationships and the friendship and moving on with your life in an entirely different direction before everyone in the situation moves you towards the exit in an unpleasant way.

 

Thanks, dot. You're right that this is a messy situation that is likely going to end up hurting everyone involved, and that the best move would be to extricate myself from it before it explodes. I don't know what will come of this, but in the long run, I'll probably end up on my own and rebuilding my life.

 

Before this, I never cheated or personally knew anyone who did, and I certainly never considered getting involved with anyone with any other romantic entanglements. One of my ex-boyfriends was separated and living alone when he pursued me, and I wouldn't get involved with him until the divorce went through and he had time to really process it. And even that ended badly, because ultimately he was convinced he'd end up marrying me, and I ended it because I realized that he ended up divorced for very good reasons (not infidelity, to clarify- he was just an emotionally unavailable workaholic).

 

Anyway, at this point I'm just trying to understand my current situation and learn from it. This is the last thing I thought I'd be dealing with, and I need to understand how I ended up in this mess. I certainly won't ever be here again.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks, dot. You're right that this is a messy situation that is likely going to end up hurting everyone involved, and that the best move would be to extricate myself from it before it explodes. I don't know what will come of this, but in the long run, I'll probably end up on my own and rebuilding my life.

 

Before this, I never cheated or personally knew anyone who did, and I certainly never considered getting involved with anyone with any other romantic entanglements. One of my ex-boyfriends was separated and living alone when he pursued me, and I wouldn't get involved with him until the divorce went through and he had time to really process it. And even that ended badly, because ultimately he was convinced he'd end up marrying me, and I ended it because I realized that he ended up divorced for very good reasons (not infidelity, to clarify- he was just an emotionally unavailable workaholic).

 

Anyway, at this point I'm just trying to understand my current situation and learn from it. This is the last thing I thought I'd be dealing with, and I need to understand how I ended up in this mess. I certainly won't ever be here again.

 

Understand that it will look much clearer outside of it and you never know when something is going to give.

 

Honestly if we switched bodies for a day, I would call it quits right now (and I would take your savings over to the casino and send them to me, but that is another thread). It may be hard but the sooner the better because judging by your response you don't see the long-term here and really, a young relationship can't really flourish healthily in these kinds of conditions either, not even referring to the moral arguments one might choose to make.

[carrie999]

I hope they bring back the old alienation of affection laws more strongly. It is simply not right that a spouse and their gf/bf are free to mess in someone's mind and life behind their back like this. Hell, you go to jail for stealing someone's wallet or slapping their face, you know? I don't know how it should go exactly but this is just nasty. It's not like anybody isn't 100% free to walk out the door anytime they want. This is so unnecessary. These threads make me feel like I'm witnessing a crime. Eek.

 

So why would you hang out in a forum that is open for other men and women to discuss their affairs? We're here for support...that is the specific purpose of this forum. It's fine for betrayed spouses and others to opine, but if you're here to vent your anger and disgust, you're really only fueling the fire for other betrayed spouses who are also angry, which isn't really productive.

[SummersEve]

So why would you hang out in a forum that is open for other men and women to discuss their affairs? We're here for support...that is the specific purpose of this forum. It's fine for betrayed spouses and others to opine, but if you're here to vent your anger and disgust, you're really only fueling the fire for other betrayed spouses who are also angry, which isn't really productive.

 

I drop by different forums and don't have anything to "vent" over. I don't think I'm the one who goes where I have no right to be, this is an open forum. If everyone is telling you your behavior is "disgusting" as you put it, and you yourself admit it, maybe you should stop arguing and simply change it. I don't run this board, if others are telling you the same then that is what they think. You will not find much support anywhere for antisocial behavior.

Edited April 1, 2011 by SummersEve

[Carrot2000]

Anyway, at this point I'm just trying to understand my current situation and learn from it. This is the last thing I thought I'd be dealing with, and I need to understand how I ended up in this mess. I certainly won't ever be here again.

 

Rethink this. You're basically using the destruction of the lives of others as a learning experience.

 

You ended up in this mess because you got caught up in the fantasy and the drama of it all.

 

You ended up in the mess because on some level, you think you are better than this man's wife. You get an ego boost from "saving" him from his "awful" marriage. You are helping him re-write the history of his marriage to justify your affair.

 

You ended up in this mess because you were unhappy in your own relationship, but didn't have the courage to end it. You chose, instead, to cheat your way out.

 

Carrie, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take an honest look at what you're doing to yourself and others.

[greengoddess]

Rethink this. You're basically using the destruction of the lives of others as a learning experience.

 

You ended up in this mess because you got caught up in the fantasy and the drama of it all.

 

You ended up in the mess because on some level, you think you are better than this man's wife. You get an ego boost from "saving" him from his "awful" marriage. You are helping him re-write the history of his marriage to justify your affair.

 

You ended up in this mess because you were unhappy in your own relationship, but didn't have the courage to end it. You chose, instead, to cheat your way out.

 

Carrie, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take an honest look at what you're doing to yourself and others.

 

What a great post.

Carrie I really hope you read this and listen and think and consider these words.