Ladies: Prefer the "good guy" or the "bad boy" boyfriend?

[Lilmisus]

So, with the last post that I made, I was reminded of an issue that my ex and I had about how we viewed relationships. Not only him and I, but many people chipped in and gave their two cents. Some agreed with him, some agreed with me, and some believed something completely different, so I just wanted to see how you guys felt about it.

 

According to him, he thought that all girls just like that "bad boy" guy. The type of guy who wont shower her in "I love you's" or who wont blow up her phone by calling her all the time (he never called), or asking what she's doing, or always treating her to romantic dates. He said that girls would much prefer it if a guy who wanted to have sex with her, came up to her, put her up against the wall and just did it right then and there, rather than try to make it romantic by using candles, rose petals, and aromas. The kind of guy who wasn't walked all over, but made the girl wonder more about who she was dating. He said that he had dated many girls, and they each preferred that, and he was convinced that all girls just wanted a guy like that.

 

A friend of ours was trying to tell him that guys need to treat a girl with love and respect. That girls want to be told that they are loved and want and need to be treated to romantic dates, at least every now and then. He said that guys should do little things for their girlfriends, call them when they can, text them when they can't call them, and try spending a good amount of time with them. Try to be their "prince in shining armor" type boyfriend. My ex said that this will be okay for a certain amount of time, but that these are the type of guy that are always getting cheated on or left after so long because they're too boring and not full of excitement and wonder. He said that relationships will last longer for the "bad boy" type rather than the "good guy" type. An example he used was the love triangle in the movie "How do you Know."

 

I said that there needs to be a middle ground. No girl wants a pushover, nor does she want a complete jerk for a boyfriend who never shows her any affection and who seems to only be interested in her for sex. Those who treat their girls like crap wont even get the chance to have them for a couple of years (like the good guy would), because she'll most likely have the brains to leave them before that. He didn't think this would happen. Too many girls convinced him otherwise.

 

So, thoughts?

[tigressA]

I've had more than enough of the bad boys--really, one was enough. He was an ******* who made me feel like everything wrong was my fault. I have a good man now and I am not letting him go. He listens to me, makes me feel understood, loved, desired--while not being a pushover. He challenges me and excites me without coming across like a d*ck.

[Darren Taylor]

He has major issues. The type of guy he described would never be able to keep a girl long term.

[Lilmisus]

He has major issues. The type of guy he described would never be able to keep a girl long term.

 

He kept one girlfriend (off and on) for four years where he was more of the good guy in the relationship, until when he last broke up with her. She really screwed him up by telling him she loved him, then telling him a couple years later that she just wanted to have sex with other guys and broke up with him because of that..then sleeping with six guys in the next week (a few of which were his friends), and for the past couple of years, just screwing many guys. This was after being cheated on by his first girlfriend of about five months when he was like 15-16. After that, he had only one girlfriend, and about six random hookups who he treated like crap and described as whores, but who couldn't get enough of him and just confirmed his thinking process.

 

He stopped dating for a while until me, and apparently he treated me the best he has since the girl who messed him up a few years ago. But he still treated me poorly. I tried to get him to change his thinking, and he did for the most part and treated me better after this conversation took place. But old relationships can really hurt and change you for the worse.

 

I'm still just curious if anyone thinks that he was right when he said this though. Or if there's an ounce of truth in what he was saying, since he used many Hollywood movies and scenarios as examples.

[Darren Taylor]

She really screwed him up by telling him she loved him, then telling him a couple years later that she just wanted to have sex with other guys and broke up with him because of that..then sleeping with six guys in the next week (a few of which were his friends), and for the past couple of years, just screwing many guys. This was after being cheated on by his first girlfriend of about five months when he was like 15-16. After that, he had only one girlfriend, and about six random hookups who he treated like crap and described as whores, but who couldn't get enough of him and just confirmed his thinking process.

 

 

Just as I predicted.

[Knittress]

Is it that 'nice guys' are so out of touch with their masculinity that they can only base their opinions on what women want from what they are able observe from afar? It's 100% true that a masculine loudmouth jerk will get more women than them, because they're sexually neutral at best. What they're not noticing is that there are plenty of decent-hearted masculine men that have women swooning all over the place - this is the sort of man that has it all, but since it's not so in-your-face I don't think the 'nice guys' figure this sort of man into their worldview.

[sel111]

Unfortunately the "bad guy" :-))

[orangelady]

He has major issues. The type of guy he described would never be able to keep a girl long term.

 

I agree. I know a guy like that. He's a typical badboy and he says that he is one because it gets him a lot of girls. However, the relationship never lasts and he's always with someone different. Maybe that's how they like it.

[Eeyore79]

I would want a guy who said he loved me, took me on romantic dates, called me regularly, etc. If a guy didn't show me appropriate affection and commitment, we wouldn't be dating for very long. The "bad guy" would be dumped within a matter of months.

 

I agree that in the short term women will often be sucked in by the excitement which a bad guy provides, but they will eventually dump him for not treating them right, and will probably look back on the relationship with regret. Such a guy will probably find it fairly easy to sleep around and have short relationships, but nobody wants him in the long term. When a woman is looking for a lasting relationship she wants a guy to treat her with respect and affection.

 

The ideal is a guy who is decent and loving and respectful, but who is still confident and a little exciting, and who sometimes pushes you up against a wall as well as doing the romantic thing in bed. Essentially, women want the nice guy with a bit of an edge.

[Mrlonelyone]

Is it that 'nice guys' are so out of touch with their masculinity that they can only base their opinions on what women want from what they are able observe from afar? It's 100% true that a masculine loudmouth jerk will get more women than them, because they're sexually neutral at best. What they're not noticing is that there are plenty of decent-hearted masculine men that have women swooning all over the place - this is the sort of man that has it all, but since it's not so in-your-face I don't think the 'nice guys' figure this sort of man into their worldview.

 

The guys who harp on the nice guy vs bad boy thing are young and lack experience. The women they are after are also young and lack experience.

 

Young inexperienced men see young inexperienced women making bad choices. i.e. a guy who has a job or is getting an education but can't get a date, seeing say... a known drug dealer with a different woman every week.

 

If such a man never gets picked and never sees anyone like him get picked they become frustrated. The repeated pain of rejection makes them averse to those which have caused them pain. It's a vicious cycle.

 

Does any of this justify their rants and hatred of women no. However it doesn't do any good to perpetuate the cycle by denigrating those men for having not had success yet.

 

As hard as it may be, show them mercy.

[thatdog]

I have to agree. most girls say they want the nice guy but are never actually initially attracted to them. The always fall for the jerk then get disillusioned quickly when they get treated so badly. nice gys just get placed in the 'friend zone' too fast to have a chance.

 

I'm definitely the nice guy type and looking back I have noticed a trend in the girls I have dated. Almost all of them I have initially met when I am either in an environment where I felt completely at home and would not be even thinking about girls (and therefore pay them no attention), or so supremely drunk that I don;t know what i'm doing.

 

For example my first serious gf I met for the first time when some friends and I gatecrashed her house party. I was so drunk when I got there that when she came up to us to kick us out I mistook her for my mate's gf and started teasing her about her 'new' hairstyle. I stayed all night and made a complete dick of myself.

about 2-3 weeks later I bump into her again, see a flicker of recognition in her eyes but have no clue where I knew her from. I felt embarrassed and assumed she was a friend of a friend so I just walked up and said hi and started chatting like we were good mates. it threw her off so much she said yes when I asked her out. Later on she said she liked mea t first because she was so stunned such an obvious bastard would be so nice and pay attention to her so she felt special. Then when I turned out to be a nice guy she then decided to stay a few years.

[persevere]

I have to agree. most girls say they want the nice guy but are never actually initially attracted to them. The always fall for the jerk then get disillusioned quickly when they get treated so badly. nice gys just get placed in the 'friend zone' too fast to have a chance.

 

I think the age of a woman is inversely proportionate to their "bad boy" desires. Women in their 20's, in general, seem to date total losers far more. As they get older, they realize he's the one who will bolt on them asap after he gets what he wants. They'll cheat, treat them badly. You can't take them home to mom, but for some reason he's attractive. Why? Because they have this deluded dream that he can be "fixed". He's a challenge. He'll play with their minds and keep them guessing. It fits the game.

Meanwhile, the nice guy who is working his butt off to improve himself is seen as "boring". He's not argumentative. He's not controversial. He doesn't need to be "fixed". No challenge.

As women get older they seem to finally realize that nice guys are better. Perhaps after seeing themselves or their friends get abused by the loser, turning into single moms, etc.

It also depends on the self esteem of the woman. If daddy was a jerk to them, they seek out jerks.

Edited March 31, 2011 by persevere

[kiss_andmakeup]

The notion that there are only "nice guys" and "bad boys" and that women are exclusively attracted to the latter is pretty ridiculous. Sure there are women who seem to gravitate towards crappy men who treat them poorly...but they typically have issues.

 

I like that my boyfriend shows me plenty of love and affection but he's not afraid to tell me when he thinks I'm wrong. He's loving and caring but he doesn't put up with crap. I think that's the kind of man most women want.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Is it that 'nice guys' are so out of touch with their masculinity that they can only base their opinions on what women want from what they are able observe from afar?

 

What they're not noticing is that there are plenty of decent-hearted masculine men that have women swooning all over the place - this is the sort of man that has it all, but since it's not so in-your-face I don't think the 'nice guys' figure this sort of man into their worldview.

 

That isn't it at all. Boys are taught to be a certain way as they grow up by parents, the media, and society. For many guys there is a learning curve that takes place... and when young very black and white thinking is common.

 

I remember it being a huge shock when I realized in highschool that the girls actually responded better the more selfishly I acted. I would say my first GF and my first marriage both suffered greatly because I was willing to bend over backwards.

 

I also remember my best friend, who is without a doubt the most romantic guy I know... had his GF cheat on him with the schools biggest dirtbag.

 

I believe it's at those times when your previous worldview simply fails to make sense that guys really latch onto this Bad Boy, Nice Guy theory. Which is Ok, because it teaches those guys to stand up for themselves in a relationship. I remember after my divorce at 23... I was hard as iron. It took years for me to discover a balance.

 

He kept one girlfriend (off and on) for four years .... She really screwed him up by telling him she loved him, then telling him a couple years later that she just wanted to have sex with other guys and broke up with him because of that..then sleeping with six guys in the next week (a few of which were his friends), and for the past couple of years, just screwing many guys. This was after being cheated on by his first girlfriend of about five months when he was like 15-16. After that, he had only one girlfriend, and about six random hookups who he treated like crap and described as whores, but who couldn't get enough of him and just confirmed his thinking process.

 

This is the real problem.

 

A huge number of people... both men and women, make new lovers pay for the sins of the previous ones.

 

I have noticed that if a woman was cheated on by her last BF... she is much more likely to cheat on her current BF. I assume the trend is the same for men.

[Lilmisus]

That isn't it at all. Boys are taught to be a certain way as they grow up by parents, the media, and society. For many guys there is a learning curve that takes place... and when young very black and white thinking is common.

 

I remember it being a huge shock when I realized in highschool that the girls actually responded better the more selfishly I acted. I would say my first GF and my first marriage both suffered greatly because I was willing to bend over backwards.

 

I also remember my best friend, who is without a doubt the most romantic guy I know... had his GF cheat on him with the schools biggest dirtbag.

 

I believe it's at those times when your previous worldview simply fails to make sense that guys really latch onto this Bad Boy, Nice Guy theory. Which is Ok, because it teaches those guys to stand up for themselves in a relationship. I remember after my divorce at 23... I was hard as iron. It took years for me to discover a balance.

 

 

 

This is the real problem.

 

A huge number of people... both men and women, make new lovers pay for the sins of the previous ones.

 

I have noticed that if a woman was cheated on by her last BF... she is much more likely to cheat on her current BF. I assume the trend is the same for men.

 

I agree, too many people react to new people poorly because of past partner's mistakes. I was a victim of this, obviously, in our relationship, and I think it shows that they're not truly over that person regardless of how many times they say they are.

 

And though I do think that those who are cheated on have a higher chance of cheating in their next relationship, I'm 90% positive that I wasn't a victim of it in our relationship. I say only 90% because back in February I hit a rough time where I thought for sure that he was cheating on me or planning on doing so, and those feelings never went completely away, even though I realized that they were silly feelings to believe. He told me countless times how strongly he feels against cheating, and wouldn't do it. He's more straightforward than anything, so I know that if he wanted to be with other girls, he would just come out and tell me - which he said he doesn't want right now at all. He also reassured me after we broke up that he definitely didn't cheat on me and would never have . He said that he'd be an idiot to do that to a good girl like me, or choose to waste it with a "bad girl", and that he just, wouldn't.

 

It just amazes me though how someone can screw someone up that much to the point where they treat everyone like crap and don't let anyone else in. If I ever see the chick that did that hurt him so severely (he hurt her too though, I realize that), then I seriously would have to be kept back from saying or doing something I'd regret.

[Ruby Slippers]

They say men want a woman who's a lady in the streets and a bad girl in the sheets.

 

I think most women want the male counterpart: a man who's a gentleman in the streets and a bad boy in the sheets.

[Woggle]

They say men want a woman who's a lady in the streets and a bad girl in the sheets.

 

I think most women want the male counterpart: a man who's a gentleman in the streets and a bad boy in the sheets.

 

This I agree with and it is far different than somebody who has an addiction to being mistreated. People like that have tons of issues that make less than ideal partners.

[mr.dream merchant]

Don't be either. Be the guy who's rather quick to tell a woman what the deal is when the time comes.

 

You don't have to pamper her (if you really like the girl, you probably will though, I know I do because I get a certain thrill out of doing nice things for a woman I'm feeling for), and you don't have to be a jerk to her.

 

Just keep it real with her. Anybody can and will respect that, men and women alike.

[Shocking Pink]

So, with the last post that I made, I was reminded of an issue that my ex and I had about how we viewed relationships. Not only him and I, but many people chipped in and gave their two cents. Some agreed with him, some agreed with me, and some believed something completely different, so I just wanted to see how you guys felt about it.

 

According to him, he thought that all girls just like that "bad boy" guy. The type of guy who wont shower her in "I love you's" or who wont blow up her phone by calling her all the time (he never called), or asking what she's doing, or always treating her to romantic dates. He said that girls would much prefer it if a guy who wanted to have sex with her, came up to her, put her up against the wall and just did it right then and there, rather than try to make it romantic by using candles, rose petals, and aromas. The kind of guy who wasn't walked all over, but made the girl wonder more about who she was dating. He said that he had dated many girls, and they each preferred that, and he was convinced that all girls just wanted a guy like that.

 

A friend of ours was trying to tell him that guys need to treat a girl with love and respect. That girls want to be told that they are loved and want and need to be treated to romantic dates, at least every now and then. He said that guys should do little things for their girlfriends, call them when they can, text them when they can't call them, and try spending a good amount of time with them. Try to be their "prince in shining armor" type boyfriend. My ex said that this will be okay for a certain amount of time, but that these are the type of guy that are always getting cheated on or left after so long because they're too boring and not full of excitement and wonder. He said that relationships will last longer for the "bad boy" type rather than the "good guy" type. An example he used was the love triangle in the movie "How do you Know."

 

I said that there needs to be a middle ground. No girl wants a pushover, nor does she want a complete jerk for a boyfriend who never shows her any affection and who seems to only be interested in her for sex. Those who treat their girls like crap wont even get the chance to have them for a couple of years (like the good guy would), because she'll most likely have the brains to leave them before that. He didn't think this would happen. Too many girls convinced him otherwise.

 

So, thoughts?

 

I totally agree with you about the middle ground! I have been with both types, the nice guy and the bad boy, and I want the good guy, the guy in the middle. I'm not much into flower petals and candles, and I'm down with the passionate sex against the wall, but I DEFINITELY want a guy who calls me every day and lets me know he's really into me, who is my best friend and who I can talk to about anything. I wouldn't settle for anything less, not anymore.

[Chicago_Guy]

He kept one girlfriend (off and on) for four years where he was more of the good guy in the relationship, until when he last broke up with her. She really screwed him up by telling him she loved him, then telling him a couple years later that she just wanted to have sex with other guys and broke up with him because of that..then sleeping with six guys in the next week (a few of which were his friends), and for the past couple of years, just screwing many guys. This was after being cheated on by his first girlfriend of about five months when he was like 15-16. After that, he had only one girlfriend, and about six random hookups who he treated like crap and described as whores, but who couldn't get enough of him and just confirmed his thinking process.

 

Your friend's ex appears to be a total slut - maybe he is better off without her.

 

Some women do like to be treated like total crap, but those are often the women who are already totally messed up to begin with. If a particular woman needs to be treated like crap to keep her satisfied, then she isn't even worth the effort.

[Olivia1966]

Most women who put up with being treated badly haven't been treated badly all the time. What happens is that the guys who treat women badly occasionally are very sweet and sometimes let on that they've been deeply wounded themselves. And probably more often than not, they're telling the truth on that score.

 

The women tend to be captivated by the feeling that the sweet side they sometimes see is the "real him" and that if he can only get over his emotional wounds, that "real him" will be all that's left. And they believe that love can heal him. But it can't. The only thing that can heal him, if anything can, is intensive counseling and a lot of hard work, and overall, very few people, of either sex, are up to that kind of work.

 

FWIW, I was a "nice guy" girl until I got badly, badly burned by one and looked back and saw the pattern that the "nice guys" I attracted tended to be kind of selfish jerks, too. But far from switching to "bad boys," I'm now on the lookout for the elusive "good man." Does anyone know where to find one?

[Lilmisus]

Your friend's ex appears to be a total slut - maybe he is better off without her.

 

Some women do like to be treated like total crap, but those are often the women who are already totally messed up to begin with. If a particular woman needs to be treated like crap to keep her satisfied, then she isn't even worth the effort.

 

He's much better without her, and better off with me She was a total whore though..and I'm sure that her number is in the teens or twenties by now, being that it's a couple years later.

 

Being a person who was treated like crap in my last relationship, I can say that I wasn't in it because I enjoyed being treated like crap, I stayed in it because I was in love, and because he was slowly but surely improving and moving forward in how he treated me. He said that he could have easily just had sex with me and then did me like he did every other girl by dumping her and calling her a whore, or something else along those lines, but he chose not to, and chose to treat me much better. I'm just hoping that if he got nothing else, that he will at least continue to treat girls better, and learn that not all of us are like that chick (who by the way, kept going back to him, multiple times, and was willing to cheat on her boyfriend with him..yet she still wanted to sleep with others...?) One can only hope.

[ChessPieceFace]

My answer: I don't care. I'm not ever going to be a "bad boy" because my personal standards of ethics forbid it. I would be a caring, attentive boyfriend. If she cheated on me because of it, good riddance to her. I can generalize and be negative about SO many things in life, and I would be correct, and it doesn't help me. All I can do is believe that if I work on myself and the things I want to improve, and be the best person I can be, then I may eventually find a girl who doesn't fall into the negative stereotypes that I hate. A girl that actually understands her nature to the point that she doesn't fall into the traps of chasing the alpha male and getting walked on and loving it.

 

And if I'm wrong and there are no women out there who are better than their nature, then the human race wasn't worthy of my seed anyway, so good riddance to it?

[fortyninethousand322]

In my experience, the guys who had "bad guy" characteristics but were good guys at heart had much better success than the "nice guys" who were also good guys at heart. Maybe that fits into the whole "balanced" thing though.

[johan]

Women don't prefer the "bad boy", necessarily. But it's in how he acts that their insecurities get triggered, and then a need to get validation from him. So it looks like she really digs him, when in reality she's come to believe he's the only source of something she really needs: respect. Some women take that bait, and then spend years struggling to get him to reel them in. It's not healthy, but that's how it goes.

 

A bitter guy would see that and think, "wow that looks great. I'd rather have that kind of relationship than the crappy loneliness I feel now." And they assume that the love and affection the woman is expressing are real and not just a reaction that can't be helped.

 

I'd rather learn how to be strong in my life and know that the woman who is with me is there for the same reasons I'm with her: because I love and respect her and it's fun. I'd never want to get someone through manipulation.