Fat stigma goes global

[dreamingoftigers]

Let's start by defining our terms, shall we:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in the individual pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

The addiction is characterized by impairment in behavioral control, craving, inability to consistently abstain, and diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships.

Like other chronic diseases, addiction can involve cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

 

Addiction is not just, "I like it and it feels nice."

Addiction is: When someone is told they they could die of heart attack, stroke, cancer from what they are doing and their brain tells them "but I like cake." There is something wrong with the circuitry! No one likes cake enough to die for it if they were put in front of a chocolate cake on the inside of a high voltage fence! Your rational, conscious, reasoned thought is hijacked by the more basic, pleasure-seeking part of your brain.

 

If I wanted to, there's a number of "addictions" I could have chosen to claim throughout my life...

• I love the taste/fullness/whatever I get from eating food, and so I eat an excessive amount. Somebody published something about how foot can affect the chemicals in the brain. Therefore, I must be addicted to food.
  

I would say that if you ate an excessive amount of food to the point where it impaired your health, relationships, financial situation and self-worth and still were refusing or felt unable to stop, then yes you might have a dependency. Not because someone wrote an article.

• I love to play video games. In fact, it's practically all I do. There's an article about the chemical effect of video games on the brain - I must be addicted.
  

Can you stop? Do you have withdrawals? Does it interfere with anything else in life that you want to do or is it a conscious rational choice that you have full control over?

• I watch hours upon hours of TV, and there's a similar article about TV. I must be addicted.
  

See above.

• I love the feeling I get from running, and I run a lot. There's a well documented effect from running, termed the "runner's high", which is linked to a chemical change induced by long distance running. I must be addicted.
  

I think if that is the case, that is probably the one healthy addiction. I actually known a former addict that uses runner's high to regulate himself. Addiction is usually caused by faulty wiring in the dopamine regulation systems so it makes sense.

• It makes me feel good to go out for a hike, and I hike for miles upon miles. This is as a result of the release of endorphins into my bloodstream. I must be addicted.
  

See above.

• I drink a lot of water, and if I don't maintain three liters of water a day I feel like crap. I must be addicted.
  

Water does not encourage dopamine release = non-addictive. If anything water helps brain circuitry function more optimally. Thanks for reminding me, I am going to go get a glass.

 

I really do hate the term "addiction". It's so overused - especially as an excuse.

 

These days, yes, by people that do not know how to define their terms.

 

 

And here's a fun little experiment. When you looked through the list of "addictions", did you get to the second half and go "oh that person has a problem" or "oh that's bad to run/hike/drink water".

No. Absolutely not. Even though any single one of those items could be done to an unhealthy degree.

 

Unhealthy does not necessarily equal addict, just like broken leg doesn't equal addict but it isn't "healthy."

 

You can become "addicted" to anything, because anything you do that gives pleasure has a chemical effect on your brain as well as a psychological effect.

 

If you are predisposed to addiction! Not everyone is.

 

The problem lies in whether the activity is done to a self-destructive means, and whether you use it as an EXCUSE for the behavior.

 

I love it when people say this, like now I have an "excuse." "I am an addict, yeah, free ticket to do whatever I want."

 

Hahahahaha. Being an addict means that you get to take more responsibility to do something about a condition that causes shame and destruction with fewer mental and physical resources.

 

Realizing that you are an addict does not give you any more "rights" but it does give you way more responsibility. All of a sudden you have a pratical full-time job to rehabilitate your brain!

 

And it is not easy. And often you get to do it while others are judging you. And perceiving you as weak and of lower character.

 

It means that I am responsible for the rest of my life to my recovery and to full accountability. I can no longer claim ignorance of my state and why I am here. I know exactly whay triggers my brain and that I use sugar to produce a specific chemical reaction in my brain that I find temporarily blissful.

 

So what? What does admitting that particular point get me? Shall I run and hide behind a gigantic donut in shame? I'm not going to. What I am left with is the day-to-day struggle to not only [COLOR=#ff0000]drop[/COLOR] the [COLOR=#ff0000]cupcake[/COLOR] but try to avoid picking it up. It is difficult. Just because something is simple, does not make it easy. Especially when you live with people the enable and encourage your addiction.

Advertisers in specific know exactly how to market cheap carbs. My god (I hate cheeseburgers by the way) have you seen most burger advertisements? They are like food porn. Imagine having to give up your porn. LOL Most guys on here flip at the very mention of it.

 

My recovery as a food addict includes: going to 3 meetings a week (in my case I am working another 12 step program, so I don't have to spend all 3 meetings at FA), phoning my sponsor at 6 a.m. and telling her exactly what I will be eating that day.

 

My food plan is as follows: (all weighed and measured by a food scale!)

 

Breakfast:(between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m.) 6 oz of plain yogurt, 4 oz of berries, 1 oz of rolled oats

 

Lunch (between 11 am and 1 pm) and Dinner (between 5-7 pm)(the same meal twice): 12oz of salad with fresh vegetables, 4 oz of protein (chicken or fish or eggs or 2 oz of cheese or cottage cheese), 6 oz of 1 type of cooked vegetables (cannot include starches like potatoes or corn).

 

I must be sitting down at an appropriate spot to eat (not my car, and not on the run). I cannot mix my food together. I do not get salad dressing. There is no sugar, flour, rice or other refined carbs EVER (including not Christmas, my Birthday etc. Food is not to be part of my celebrating).

 

These are the dictates of my recovery program. If any of the conditions aren't met, including mixing the food, not weighing it exactly, being on the run, missing a meal or having it early etc etc etc. I am considered to have had a "break" and "relapsed."

 

This is not until I reach my goal weight or get some kind of health club certificate. This is for the rest of my life everyday.

 

The program is insanely strict. All because I could not manage my food. I did it for 86 days last time and lost close to 90 lbs. You do have to go off of the program if you are pregnant and it is recommended by a physician. I got pregnant and ate well (very very healthy) throughout the pregnancy but lost interest in the programs strict requirements while being a new mom.

 

Whether you cling to the belief that you have an addiction or not, the end result is the same: if you're not happy with how you look, or feel, or with the consequences of whatever your actions may be...then do something about it.

 

I would so love to see you on my recovery program and not relapse.

[dreamingoftigers]

I completely agree with EyesWide. "addiction" has become a word for something you enjoy doing but you wish you could stop enjoying.

 

Among circles that don't understand the term. Honestly I don't "enjoy" food. I don't feel peace, nourishment or contentment with what I eat. I often eat one thing and then wonder what I will eat next. On and on. You can't be serious that there isn't something wrong with brain circuitry with something like that.

 

You blame "addiction" because you can't blame yourself.

 

And what does that "blame" look like? "I can't stop because I am an addict?" On the contrary, I have to stop because I am an addict and if left unchecked I will be in a grave before 40. No one sits down at a table and asks for this. No one says, I want to be looked upon as weak, pathetic, lazy, immoral and selfish.... and I want some lasagna.

 

Have you ever done anything stupid in your life? What was that experience like? Everyday addiction is feeling like the stupid part of you took over. Guess what? The is exactly what happens.

 

The first thing is to recogonize the cravings and wait them out. Sounds easy, not so much, not until you have tools to deal with it and Plans A B anc C. The early part of treatment is a grind. You feel like crap physically and emotionally and then you get to fight back very uncomfortable cravings. It may not be crack, but it is still a compulsive and chemical dependency.

 

It's the same reason why parents blame video games for their sons violent behavior. Ridiculous.

 

I would say that technology has entered society without prior knowledge and proof of what it does to the human brain. Check out the Amen Clinic findings on technology as well. Video games actually stimulate the same brain centers as cocaine. I know that sounds laughable, it shocked me. We may very well be wearing out the pleasure centers of our brains. Parents should really restrict video games if they are causing anti-social behaviour.

 

You can be addicted to smoking due to the highly addictive nature of nicotine, stop smoking all at once and your body goes through withdrawal. Anti-depressants are the same way, your body gets use to a pill producing serotonin instead of it's natural processes, drop the pill, you become chemically depressed due to the fact your body is producing no serotonin.

 

I went through the anti depressant withdrawal cold turkey and made myself very sick once. Just for everyone out there, don't do that.

 

But sugar and fat? Please. Yes, sugar gives you a nice little jolt to the system, than a brief crash which can make you want more sugar. But that process is maybe 20 minutes. You don't wake up every morning for weeks with a chemical addiction to sugar like you do with nicotine and anti-depressants. The psychological memory of enjoying that candy bar is what makes you go back, not a chemical need.

 

I would love to see your research and evidence to back up your claim of zero chemical dependence. Please feel free to provide an accredited source any time.

 

Someone has never had sugar withdrawal because someone is not addicted to it....

 

Headaches/migraines, moodiness, excess sleep/exhaustion, flu-like symptons sometimes. I always pick a Friday to quit the sugar. That way I have the whole weekend to start.

 

Not the memory of food, not at all. Quite honestly they say that compulsive eaters don't take much time to taste their food. This is true. I have trouble remember what exactly something tasted like. I will remember what it did to me but it is more like the 'idea' of the taste. Sometimes I will go back for the same food and it will taste nothing as good as I remembered it.

[tman666]

dreamingoftigers:

 

Thank you very much for responding to my and others' questions in a thoughtful and insightful way!

 

The example you brought up about that insurance agency's shenanigans really highlighted for me how there is a level of corporate responsibility involved. The supplement industry (specifically "bodybuilding" supplements) is especially fraught with misinformation, dishonesty, and tricky tactics to separate the customer from their dollar, all outside the umbrella of USFDA oversight.

 

While I still think that it boils down to individual lifestyle choices, your post has made me realize that a complete Libertarian stance when it comes to regulating food and supplements may not be all that realistic. While you are informed and aware of the outside influences (read: prevailing attitudes propped up by the corporate machine), a large percentage of people are not, making them all the more at the mercy of entities who could give a half a damn about an individual's health and well-being.

 

I hope that you're able to overcome the challenges that you face. It's a shame to hear those stories how you've been degraded because of your weight.

 

You have to keep fighting! Remember that knowledge is not enough. Applied knowledge is what produces real results.

[pureinheart]

I think my ADDH was kicking in so didn't read all of the responses...in the US they put additives in the fast food to enhance them and to cause the addiction.

 

A lot of money has been put forth concerning fast food and cigs to make them desireable to the "brain"...too bad they didn't spend that money feeding hungry people and children...

 

Sorry if this was brought up already .... I notice when I eat fast food like over 2 days in a row, I crave it....sucks.

[pureinheart]

dreamingoftigers:

 

Thank you very much for responding to my and others' questions in a thoughtful and insightful way!

 

The example you brought up about that insurance agency's shenanigans really highlighted for me how there is a level of corporate responsibility involved. The supplement industry (specifically "bodybuilding" supplements) is especially fraught with misinformation, dishonesty, and tricky tactics to separate the customer from their dollar, all outside the umbrella of USFDA oversight.

 

While I still think that it boils down to individual lifestyle choices, your post has made me realize that a complete Libertarian stance when it comes to regulating food and supplements may not be all that realistic. While you are informed and aware of the outside influences (read: prevailing attitudes propped up by the corporate machine), a large percentage of people are not, making them all the more at the mercy of entities who could give a half a damn about an individual's health and well-being.

 

I hope that you're able to overcome the challenges that you face. It's a shame to hear those stories how you've been degraded because of your weight.

 

You have to keep fighting! Remember that knowledge is not enough. Applied knowledge is what produces real results.

 

It's a fine line I think, the last thing we want (here in the US) is more government control...it would be better for people to educate themselves and not fall for every claim....the government is about two steps away from telling us what to eat.

 

With all the weight loss gimmiks how many REALLY work...the only thing I have found to work is eat right, cutting out uncool fats and if it is packaged, chances are it's not good for you...natural packaging is the best, meaning a bannana peel and such...cut out all obvious sugars like cakes and such.

 

(Bolded) is the key...if you have to start over everyday...do it...right now that is what I feel like I am doing...but I have lost so much weight in my day that I know it is VERY possible and something will kick in eventually and then the weight starts coming off.

[Taramere]

OP...thank God for anonymity, eh? You could be an obese person trying to shame herself into losing weight, or you could be a member of some pro-anorexia website. God knows....but there's usually some personal issue at play when somebody gets all preachy like this.

 

I tend to think any eating disorder - whether over-eating, starving or bulimia - stems from associations between food and control. Attaching so much significance to food that it becomes far more than just body fuel or a treat. Mocking people for having an eating disorder is hardly going to help you or them.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Taramere

[dreamingoftigers]

I am what many would consider 'fat' also. 5'8" 180 to 190 lbs depending how much salt I ate the day before Why am I like this? Because I like food. I eat an extremely healthy diet - and I mean extremely healthy - I just eat too much of it and don't get enough exercise. Some days I am OK with it, some days I yearn for the days when I was 150 lbs after just having my third child.

 

Funny thing is, I was not as healthy then as I am now. I smoked 2 packs a day, ate almost all processed foods, drank pop and Kool Aid constantly. I would drink 2 pots of coffee during the day to suppress my appetite and then eat a half a plate of KD at suppertime. I got winded if I ran after a kid farther than across the room. Skinny DOES NOT = healthy.

 

I do know what I need to do to lose weight if I want to, but I like my beer and rum, and my nice thick juicy Alberta beef steaks, and my full fat raw milk, and my Lara bars and I miss them when I cut down on them. Portion control is key for me if I want to be thinner, but to say I was healthier when I was skinny is a load of crap.

 

:)Love me a good tenderloin!

 

And no skinny is not necessarily healthy, but obesity sure isn't either. (Not saying you are obese, just a general comment)

[dreamingoftigers]

Fat shouldn’t be a stigma. People who are fat are every bit as worthy as some one who is not.

 

Bottom line you should treat yourself with respect whether you weigh 100 or 1000lbs. You should aim to be healthy and happy, and work for the best in your life.

 

I find it interesting that you share that top piece of information especially because the article in question directly addresses the stigma:

 

"A recent study found that the stigma and discrimination associated with being obese may make the [COLOR=#0058a6]health effects of extra weight worse[/COLOR]. In that research, obese people who reported discrimination showed greater physical decline over time."

 

I think that that is horribly sad that people who already have one issue have it compounded by others.

[dreamingoftigers]

At the same time, it's extremely hard to lose. It's easy for people to say that I've caused it, but when you have a food addiction, you have an addiction. It's like a crack addiction. I wonder if these same people are saying, "Just get over it", to crackheads?

 

It simply isn't understood yet. I think in the near future that addiction will be understood more as an overarching brain dysfunction in the circuitry then just seperate isolated addictions.

 

First and the most important ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))). My daughter is a sugar addict and has been since a young child. Her grandparents used to think it was cute to get the kids all hopped up on sugar, and to also gain favor with the kids.

 

My grandmother pushes the sugar heavily but she walks everywhere so she has been able to ward off the diabetes. The whole side of the family has not had a death under 80, her mother lived to be 103.

 

I am very against sugar products and did not keep any in my home when the kids were growing up.

 

This is the task for this week. My kid isn't allowed sugar or flour already though.

 

People give kids sugar, and a little is not bad, but there are those that have serious problems with it...now my grandkids are addicted...my oldest grandson fiends for it...

 

I think that this trend is so detrimental.

 

My heart goes out to you DOT, I have been there and my daughter and grandkids are trying to break their addictions. It is very real BTW.

 

Good luck to you, it is such a bitch when it is everywhere!

 

I never shame them. I do get scared though because I know how it affects us physically.

 

My weight has fluctuated all of my life. Basically when I'm happy and content, I'm thin...let's just say I'm not happy and content right now:rolleyes:

Thought for the day: fruits and veggies rule!

 

 

Have you had your thyroid checked recently?

 

I am aware that I have thyroid issues but have not followed up on it recently.

 

 

dreamingoftigers:

 

Thank you very much for responding to my and others' questions in a thoughtful and insightful way!

 

Your are most welcome, let me know if you have any more.

 

The example you brought up about that insurance agency's shenanigans really highlighted for me how there is a level of corporate responsibility involved. The supplement industry (specifically "bodybuilding" supplements) is especially fraught with misinformation, dishonesty, and tricky tactics to separate the customer from their dollar, all outside the umbrella of USFDA oversight.

 

Health industries in general seem to have some very disturbing agendas.

 

While I still think that it boils down to individual lifestyle choices, your post has made me realize that a complete Libertarian stance when it comes to regulating food and supplements may not be all that realistic. While you are informed and aware of the outside influences (read: prevailing attitudes propped up by the corporate machine), a large percentage of people are not, making them all the more at the mercy of entities who could give a half a damn about an individual's health and well-being.

 

This pretty much applies across the board in business, but playing with people's health and well-being is quite....alarming. The densensitization to be able to do this is disturbing in itself. There seems to be a real disconnect from it. "Just doing my job." "Gotta earn a living." I hired a marketing guy for our business, he suggested adding $50 to an initial quote and then subtracting $50 in front of the customer to present them with a "deal." I was pretty uncomfortable with that, it was a deception. He managed to easily justify it. One thing that business tends to do is almost childish "well everyone else is doing it.....and we are here to make money."

 

I hope that you're able to overcome the challenges that you face. It's a shame to hear those stories how you've been degraded because of your weight.

 

Enh, unfortunately you get desensitized and I did give some of the more biased examples. My day to day life is not filled with 30 people running up to me with pitchforks demanding that I eat pie. But it is a very interesting undercurrent. Gwyneth Paltrow went out in her Shallow Hal fat suit and said that people stopped giving her eye contact.

 

You have to keep fighting! Remember that knowledge is not enough. Applied knowledge is what produces real results.

 

Ack I know. Oddly enough part of addictive tendencies is the brain's ability to avoid. The brain does not like to give up what feels good. The conscious effort is constantly required to tame the beast within.

 

I think my ADDH was kicking in so didn't read all of the responses...in the US they put additives in the fast food to enhance them and to cause the addiction.

 

It would seem that it was.

 

A lot of money has been put forth concerning fast food and cigs to make them desireable to the "brain"...too bad they didn't spend that money feeding hungry people and children...

 

Sorry if this was brought up already .... I notice when I eat fast food like over 2 days in a row, I crave it....sucks.

 

I notice exactly the same thing, I don't even like most of it, it tastes like cardboard.

 

 

it would be better for people to educate themselves and not fall for every claim....

 

if you have to start over everyday...do it...right now that is what I feel like I am doing...but I have lost so much weight in my day that I know it is VERY possible and something will kick in eventually and then the weight starts coming off.

 

Yes yes I hear you. TBH I am not sure if education is enough for many. The whole Taco Bell "meat" thing really struck me as interesting. Literally from the mouth of food addicts: "we don't care what it is, it tastes good." What? That is so messed up. And you know what? Taco Bell does not taste good

 

I describe Taco Bell as "sick in the poo"

[dreamingoftigers]

OP...thank God for anonymity, eh? You could be an obese person trying to shame herself into losing weight, or you could be a member of some pro-anorexia website. God knows....but there's usually some personal issue at play when somebody gets all preachy like this.

 

I tend to think any eating disorder - whether over-eating, starving or bulimia - stems from associations between food and control. Attaching so much significance to food that it becomes far more than just body fuel or a treat. Mocking people for having an eating disorder is hardly going to help you or them.

 

Generally IMHO, most addiction has something to do with control. Subconsciously of course. Even if it is just to try to get control over deferring one's emotions.

 

Often addicts rebel sharply when shamed or people try to get them to quit. You notice quite the conflict when men ask their overweight wives to shed the pounds here in the forum. There is too much shame and conflict attached to it. It must seem that the husband wishes to take away the wife's comfort in the name of his own sexual selfishness in many instances. That is bound to cause a head-butt.

 

At least in my circumstance I can take comfort in knowing that my husband will not ask for my weight loss for sexual reasons.

[dreamingoftigers]

I've taken some therapy training and I found it interesting that the trainer brought up that many of the people he's treated for weight issues have had some trauma whilst younger.

 

People who were overweight tended to take on other peoples problems,

anorexics reject, bulimics appear to be going along with what you say and agree but reject it all later.

 

It is a generalist statement but one of the few that I will agree with on LS.