Using the kids for dinner...

[debtman]

No, we're not eating the children...

 

I've been doing 180 and going NC/LC as much as possible with my stbx and it's certainly helping me deal with everything.

 

Although, I think it's bothering her because she REALLY wants us to be "friends."

 

Almost every time I drop off the kids she asks me to stay and play with them or asks when I think I might be able to come over for dinner. I generally just say I have things to do and head out and don't commit to any dinner plans.

 

Today I'm picking up our son from her house to take him to a Dr. appointment (she has to wait our daughter to get off the bus) and then, she told me that our daughter's class is displaying their artwork at the local gym and asked if I wanted to go over there with them to look at it. I said sure and then she suggested that she could take us all out to dinner after. I sent her an email this morning saying that I would have to take a rain check on the dinner since I have so much to get done at the house and she replied:

"If you can find an hour to go to dinner tonight, I know it would mean a lot to the kids. They really enjoy it when we do these things for/with them. "

 

Not sure how to handle this. She's definitely focused on all of us doing more stuff together and I'd really rather spend my time with the kids with just them. I have more fun that way and so do they.

 

I've been trying very hard to remain "friendly" to her and be as civil as possible since we still haven't signed the separation agreement yet and, she'll have some say in my finances (with child support) for years to come so I have to "figure" what it's worth to remain civil to her...plus, the kids won't benefit from us getting angry with each other.

 

Any ideas?

[What_Next]

IMHO you owe her nothing. I understand being civil, but nowhere does it say that being civil means having dinner and being chummy.

 

Personally considering what she did with you, I'd be inclined to tell her that you have no intentions of "having dinner" or "chatting" or any other nonsense.

 

Or then again I could just be projecting my mood today... Not sure.

[hotgurl]

debtman,

I have been following your threads. I think personally it is BS what she is doing. It seems a lot of wayward wives have thir friend delusion going on.

 

I would tell her. I don't want to have dinner with you and the kids. It sends a confusing message to the kids. It gets thier hopes up that we are in fact not getting a divorce and that is unfair to them.

 

During this transition time it is especially important to keep healthy bourdries to make everything less confusing and stressful for the children.

 

I know you want to keep it civil but it would so tempting to tellh er I am not your friend. Friends don't treat thier friends that way you have teated me.

[UnsureinSeattle]

It absolutely sends a confusing message to your kids. For that alone, I would respectfully decline. Say "no thanks"- if she presses, say exactly that.

[willowthewisp]

debtman,

I have been following your threads. I think personally it is BS what she is doing. It seems a lot of wayward wives have thir friend delusion going on.

 

I would tell her. I don't want to have dinner with you and the kids. It sends a confusing message to the kids. It gets thier hopes up that we are in fact not getting a divorce and that is unfair to them.

 

During this transition time it is especially important to keep healthy bourdries to make everything less confusing and stressful for the children.

 

I know you want to keep it civil but it would so tempting to tellh er I am not your friend. Friends don't treat thier friends that way you have teated me.

 

This, exactly. Once the legals are done then you can tell her what a b!tch she is and to get stuffed!

[Yasuandio]

debtman,

I have been following your threads. I think personally it is BS what she is doing. It seems a lot of wayward wives have thir friend delusion going on.

 

I would tell her. I don't want to have dinner with you and the kids. It sends a confusing message to the kids. It gets thier hopes up that we are in fact not getting a divorce and that is unfair to them.

 

During this transition time it is especially important to keep healthy bourdries to make everything less confusing and stressful for the children.

 

I know you want to keep it civil but it would so tempting to tellh er I am not your friend. Friends don't treat thier friends that way you have teated me.

 

I agree with Willow on this post. It caught my eye too.

 

Pre-Divorce, I would frame these as dumb-assed questions:

 

1. If we attend school functions and go out to eat together, I'm concerned that we may be causing the kids some confusion. What are your thoughts?

 

2. Do you think it's possible that the kids might get confused if we go out to dinner as a family? Can you explain that to me? Tell me more? Why do you feel that way?

 

3. I discussed this with my theripist, and he thought that going out to dinner together as a family would be contraindicated (or some medical word) at this time. I was sort of concerned that the kids might get the wrong idea, about "us," you know. Since I really value your opinion on this, I really want to know what you opinion is. Do you think the kids might get confused? Why would my theripist take that position then? I'm really worried, we sure don't want to do the wrong thing!

 

4. Sue, I certainly would never want to enfringe of your new life, that's why a particlar topic has been on my mind lately. (peak curiousity). I've been concerned about bounderies lately. How am I doing in this area? Do you feel I have crossed any bounderies? (Keep the convo going, continue to express "your concerns" until same topic reverses).

 

5. Maybe, since we'll soon be, or are divorced, we should come up some kinda written outline of our ground rules so we both can always be in our "comfort zones," that may be an exercise. What do you think? But I have know idea where to start. Could you help me out on this project? Should it be like a chart or a list? (then make sure all of your boundery issues get list -- give her a chance to make her laundry list first though).

 

I'd act in such a way that it would appear I was looking to her, for the benifit of her great wisdom (thereby, giving her the opportunitity to state the obvious).

 

Don't puke! SMILE!

 

Who is in control with this method?

 

My first instinct was to be an a__hole. However, on second thought, after reading the last paragraph of your post, I dramatically reversed my position. I decided the "gaslight nice-nice" approach is your best bet. You must be at least very accompdating until the papers are signed. Now I get where, at least, a bit of your cool comes from (I mean, what you are enduring is enough to drive someone, literally, to commit a serious crime. It happens all the time, it's what movies are made of.) By being EXTRA nice, and looking up to her as a "big god-like expert," imagine how surprised she will be later on when you view her as a mere mortal. Smooth it on slowly and carefully with a butterknife. Let each layer of her psyche soak it in the heavenly essense of your aromatic inquiries. Build up a nice, thick, sweet, juicey, layer of totally over-the-top, ego-boosting nonsence. Just like frosting a cake!

 

Which do you like best? Angelfood or Devilfood? Let's Vote!

[starting2wakeup]

I would tell her. I don't want to have dinner with you and the kids. It sends a confusing message to the kids. It gets thier hopes up that we are in fact not getting a divorce and that is unfair to them.

 

Could not have said it better myself.

[trippi1432]

I would have to agree...don't do it if the marriage is over. Divorce Care tied to coach me into it..granted it got him back for a month and into 2 MC sessions. I just started going back to that counselor after almost 2 years..it was noted how much better off I am now, but that is just my situation....do what is right for you. I've admired your threads and know what you are going through. Just do what is right for you.

[lightoftruth83]

I would agree with the previous responses. Both of you, as well as the kids go home a mess...it works for a minute or an hour, but in the long run what kind of damage is it doing to them? What is it doing to you on the inside? And how much more psychosis is it conjuring up inside of her?

 

Here in the middle of nowhere...we (mommy and daddy) exist as a couple only in my son's world. We each keep pictures of when we were a couple hanging in his room at each of our residences. I make sure to tell him "Mommy and Daddy love you," almost as much as saying "I love you." Beyond that, our son is very aware that "this is my mom's house," and "my dad lives in that town over there."

 

We have a few days out of the year that our scheduled as "Family Days" (example Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, and kiddo's B-Day). On these days, and these days only do we come together to share a few hours. All other days we avoid contact except at pickup and dropoff, and the occasional wierdness of bumping into each other at the grocery store.

 

Keep doing what you're doing!

Peace & Love

J

[Tiberius]

Well if she is so civil and all, why are you divorcing in the first place?

[NXS]

Debtman, I really admire your strenght and courage and experienced what you're going through.

 

There was no OM in my case (which must be incredibly difficult) however there was that constant walking on eggshells and feeling I had to plamause her so I didn't get screwed over. This constant fear is going to continue and signing papers is not going to relieve it, but I'm sure you know that already. You have to let go of this fear, just drop it, emotions can be just dropped by a little practise. I remember doing this exercise with a counsellor where I wore a clowns nose and told him everything that was going on, it was incredible, at the end of the session all the emotions and big scenarios going on in my head just left. The sting was no longer there, I still felt emotional about things, just not in that crippling way. There's going to be event after event over the next 10/20 years that will be like a rollercoaster of emotions but with some practise you'll be able to get through them and come out very strong.

 

You've been setting boundaries and must continue for your own sanity. I'd suggest you tell her that you find it very difficult to do these family things and that it's giving the kids a false sense of hope that you'll get back together. Tell her it might be better to wait for a couple of months when the kids are more settled into the routine and it won't be so traumatic for them, just string her along. It really is incredible that this woman is trying to get you to play happy families after what she done.

[denise_xo]

Well if she is so civil and all, why are you divorcing in the first place?

 

Why don't you read his threads if you really want to know?

[debtman]

Thanks to all for the posts & advice. It turned out I was able to just say I had a lot of things to do and she let it go at that.

 

She wrote me an email this morning letting me know that she found my OKC profile about a month ago (I put one up about 2 months ago just looking around, tried one date, decided it was too early and haven't been back) and she had just created one (only looking for friendship, of course, I'm sure OM knows about it and doesn't have a problem with her hanging out with new people she meets online, what could possibly happen, right?...lol). Anyway, she just wanted to write me to let me know that I would probably see her profile up there because we're complete matches and told me she was glad to take it down if it bothered me.

 

She said she doesn't want to date but needs to get out of the house on nights when I have the kids...not sure what's up with OM, but I know he's got his own kids once and a while and he may even have interests outside of her that he's starting to do again, now that it's been 6 months they've been together.

 

WN, I wish I could just "tell her off" but, with the kids, the unresolved agreement, etc. I think it's in my best interest to remain civil...and yes, it may just be your mood.

 

hotgurl, GREAT advice. That's what I was going to tell her if she pushed the issue. She keeps telling me how much the kids would "love it" if we did things together, but I think that would only "muddy the waters."

 

UnsureinSeattle, willowthewisp, starting2wakeup, lightoftruth83, good to see other people agreeing. Always helpful. Duganmiles, trippi1432, even better when someone agrees from experience. Glad I was able to avoid that.

 

Yas, LOVE IT! I think a few pieces of Angel food cake washed down with a big bite of Devil's food cake is the perfect answer. I've just got be careful to not sound patronizing.

 

NXS, good advice. I'm trying to keep the boundaries defined and stay as calm and "removed" as I can when I deal with her. I've been biting my tongue a lot and am looking forward to the day when, either I don't have to bite it so much, or I can just let things go because I don't really care anymore...

 

Thanks to all for the advice and support!

[NXS]

Debtman, glad to hear it worked for you so easily. You're doing great!

 

As for the not caring anymore, a friend got to that stage by deciding to expose himself to as much grief as he could. He spent weeks looking at their photos, listening to music that reminded him of her and thinking about all the things they'd done together. It was the lowest point in his life, he almost went over the edge. He cried constantly and went through emotional turmoil. Then he literally woke up one morning and it was all gone, he didn't care anymore and started to rebuild his life. Now he says he'd never go back with her in a million years, she destroyed any chance of reconciliation. He was married for 20 years.

[debtman]

Wow, hopefully I can find another way to do it. I think I'm going to try focusing on making my life as fulfilling and happy as it was when I was single before, except, now, I've got two awesome kids to help me out with that.

 

I've been spending more time getting back into the hobbies that I loved and spent most of my time doing pre-marriage, kayaking, skydiving, volleyball, rock climbing, etc. and it's been wonderful.

[debtman]

She really seems stuck on this dinner thing. I stopped at her place last night to pick up my daughter and she went into a long story about she and OM are "slowing things down" because his W is being "completely crazy" and is trying to interfere with his visitation, change their agreement (which they haven't signed yet) so she can get more money, etc.

 

Anyway, she told me that her mom is coming up for easter weekend and was wondering if I could either pick up the kids later on Friday night or Sat. morning so they could spend some more time with her mom, which I was fine with. She told me that her mom would also love to see me (which her mom has told me before, her whole family always loved me and still does). I said I'd love to see her too. Then she said, maybe we could all go do something while she's here. I said "maybe." Then it went right to, "maybe we could all go out to that little sushi place that we love so much and, if there's anything good at the movies we could all go to a movie together after that. I know the kids would love it!"

 

I told her we'd have to see...but I'm sure I'll be busy.

 

Jees!!

 

Meanwhile, one of my old army buddies arrived yesterday, we had fun playing with the kids when I had them and we spent the rest of the evening catching up and looking at old pics and video of us from 20 years ago. He was one of the people that has helped me get through this because he got divorced at the beginning of last year and has a daughter the same age as my daughter. He's hanging around for the next few days, so I'm looking forward to having some fun and getting some distraction.

 

NICE!!

[hotgurl]

Debtman,

I understand your hesitation to outright tell her no. But as it stands now you are contirbuting to her continued asking you to go to dinner.

 

you have to tell her no. I don't think it is a good idea. We are getting divorced and it will be confusing to the kids. It will unfairly get thier hopes up.

 

Kids need stability and set bounrdies esp at a time of upheaval in thier lives.

 

You are just going ot have to have a conversation saying maybe and than being busy is not the way to go about this.

[worldgonewrong]

debtman- as always, your level-headed coolness is something I'm learning from.

Not much else to add except, she's nuts if she thinks she can have the family 'benefits' that come with marriage without actually being into the marriage itself. Her requests just make me shake my head.

[debtman]

Debtman,

I understand your hesitation to outright tell her no. But as it stands now you are contirbuting to her continued asking you to go to dinner.

 

you have to tell her no. I don't think it is a good idea. We are getting divorced and it will be confusing to the kids. It will unfairly get thier hopes up.

 

Kids need stability and set bounrdies esp at a time of upheaval in thier lives.

 

You are just going ot have to have a conversation saying maybe and than being busy is not the way to go about this.

 

You may be right. I guess I'm a little conflicted about this because I do want to be able to do some things with her and the kids, there will be events that will come up that we will both be there for and, when her family comes into town, I would like to see them. I'm not sure how much is too much, what sorts of activities are more problematic, etc.

 

I think I would feel less uneasy about going out when her mom is over than if it was just the two of us and the kids, but I'm not sure if that sends a weird message to the kids...plus, if OM is around, I won't go at all...I'm thinking that may change with time and may change after we're separated/divorced...not sure.

 

I dropped my kids off last night and OM was at her house so, when I pulled into the driveway my daughter asked if I was coming inside and when I said no she said "Why don't you ever come in when OM is here?" and I just said that I have lots of things I need to do...

 

I may give her school counselor a call this afternoon to see if she has any advice/input on that...

 

Anyone?

[hotgurl]

You may be right. I guess I'm a little conflicted about this because I do want to be able to do some things with her and the kids, there will be events that will come up that we will both be there for and, when her family comes into town, I would like to see them. I'm not sure how much is too much, what sorts of activities are more problematic, etc.

 

I think I would feel less uneasy about going out when her mom is over than if it was just the two of us and the kids, but I'm not sure if that sends a weird message to the kids...plus, if OM is around, I won't go at all...I'm thinking that may change with time and may change after we're separated/divorced...not sure.

 

I dropped my kids off last night and OM was at her house so, when I pulled into the driveway my daughter asked if I was coming inside and when I said no she said "Why don't you ever come in when OM is here?" and I just said that I have lots of things I need to do...

 

I may give her school counselor a call this afternoon to see if she has any advice/input on that...

 

Anyone?

 

well obvoiusly events, sports games, palys etc.. you tow will be there.

 

And as to visiting while seeing family. If you are close to her mom. Why can't you and the kids' take grammy out to brunch?

 

I think too after a while you may be able to do more but for right now you can't.

 

Why does she think it is ok to ask you to go to dinner as a family. WTH. ANd to tal to you about her and the OM relationship.

 

It is perfectly ok to say I don't want to discuss you and OM relationship.

 

Right now you will have to be firm. After a while you can see.

[NXS]

You may be right. I guess I'm a little conflicted about this because I do want to be able to do some things with her and the kids, there will be events that will come up that we will both be there for and, when her family comes into town, I would like to see them. I'm not sure how much is too much, what sorts of activities are more problematic, etc.

 

I think I would feel less uneasy about going out when her mom is over than if it was just the two of us and the kids, but I'm not sure if that sends a weird message to the kids...plus, if OM is around, I won't go at all...I'm thinking that may change with time and may change after we're separated/divorced...not sure.

 

I dropped my kids off last night and OM was at her house so, when I pulled into the driveway my daughter asked if I was coming inside and when I said no she said "Why don't you ever come in when OM is here?" and I just said that I have lots of things I need to do...

 

I may give her school counselor a call this afternoon to see if she has any advice/input on that...

 

Anyone?

 

I don't think you should go Debtman, she's still trying to have a virtual family with you with none of the benefits. There's really nothing in this for you and you're going to have to sit through the whole thing hurting inside and trying to put on a happy face. What happens when it's all over and you go back to your own house alone? How are you going to cope with that? Also what happens if her mother starts talking about things that bring up memories for you?

 

I think it would be very easy to slip backwards here and lose your boundaries. Also your ex is not going to feel the full effects of her leaving you if you do this. No marriage equals no family events with her family.

 

There's going to be events that you're not going to be able to avoid but this isn't one of them, so don't do it for her.