Spouse is being greedy, is lying and is acting like a 5 year old.

[Gerhard]

I have been with my wife for about two years. She's from the Philippines and is about 20 years younger than me. For the most part, things are going very good. She is very loving, we have a lot of things we like to do together, she's good in the kitchen and does nice things for me, etc.

 

She's been greedy, asking me for sums of money to send to her family that we cannot afford. When I send smaller sums, she still tells me I'm stingy.

 

She has contributed very little to the household budget; I have sent her family in the Philippines lots of money; I have let her keep almost all of her income (when we're on a very tight cash flow) so she can send it to her family. Yet she calls me stingy.

 

She had opportunities to go to work, but after submitting an online application, refused to follow up and later said that they were not hiring.

 

She acts like a child when we go off on vacations or on day trips. (doing things like throwing food crumbs & trash around the car or sulking when we make a stop to see a site). Before we go, it's made clear to that these are sightseeing/scenery trips. And all she'll want to do is go shopping. So I remind her that we're out to do some sightseeing and if she wants to go shopping, we can go another time.

 

She claims to be a Christian, yet she has lied, stolen, been greedy, etc. She even said that being a Christian gave her a "license" to behave that way.

 

She admitted she lied to me about a few things prior to coming to the USA so she could get here.

 

She incessantly teased me about my first wife during the first year of our marriage.

 

She's constantly blackmailing me. For example, she might say if I don't go to church with her, then she'll destroy some of my property. Or she might say if I don't drop my request that she contribute to the household budget, she will quit her job so I will then have to cover all expenses.

 

I try writing her notes, but she refuses to read them. I try having rational discussions with her, but she refuses to discuss things in a reasonable manner. She refuses to go to counseling together.

 

In summary, she's acting like a 5 year old

 

Any thoughts on what I could do?

[Gerhard]

I sure hope you have a prenup. 20 years younger than you? And always wanting money? Do you have any idea why she married you - yet?

She cannot get a lot of money out of me, as we're running a fairly tight budget and all my reserves/retirement are traceable sole property.

 

She says she married me because she wanted someone to love and someone to love her. Putting aside the traits I described, she's very loving in many ways. But she's acting like she's digging her own grave.

[mark982]

Gerhard, two years in and your letting her pull this crap? she's using you for a cash cow. dump before it gets worse.

[Gerhard]

Gerhard, two years in and your letting her pull this crap? she's using you for a cash cow. dump before it gets worse.

Mark, I'm not as well off as you seem to think. If I was, then there would be a lot more to go around for my wife and her family. But would that even be enough? She'd probably still be greedy. I think she's heard from me too many times that I don't have enough left over after bills are paid to send large sums to her family. So she tells me I have to get rid of all discretionary expenses and give goods or money to her family.

 

Why should a husband give up his entire discretionary income and some of his retirement so his wife can give all the money away? I feel like I'm funding someone who has a gambling addiction.

[Goldenspoon]

Is it possible that he plans to be "married" to you for say 5 to 10 years and during that time, milk you as dry as she can and when she has a green card, a stable job, and a nice social circle going, she is going to divorce you for a man her age?

[Gerhard]

Is it possible that he plans to be "married" to you for say 5 to 10 years and during that time, milk you as dry as she can and when she has a green card, a stable job, and a nice social circle going, she is going to divorce you for a man her age?

There are thousands of American/Filipina couples in the US and other westernized countries. And in almost every case, one of the primary reasons the Filipina sought out a foreign bride because it meant she could lead a better life. Perhaps that means bringing more money to her family. Perhaps it means living in a more comfortable home. Perhaps it means a better environment to raise a child. These marriages are no more likely to fail than a marriage between two Americans - and probably less likely, due to the Filipina's culture in which marriage should be for a lifetime.

 

So not only does her culture dictate that she should stay with me for a lifetime, but I don't have the kind of excess funds lying around which she can access to milk me dry.

[xxoo]

The men I know in similar marriages (marriage to a much younger, foreign bride) understand that sending money back to her family is part of the deal. It is a big reason that she considered leaving her culture and family to marry a man 20 years older than her. It isn't pretty and romantic, but it is reality. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you, but this is something that she expected when marrying you.

 

You may think you are not well-off, but how well-off are you in comparison to her family in the Phillipines? You think she is greedy, but she might think you are being terribly greedy by having so much when her family has so little.

 

You may get more helpful advice (and perspective) if you talk to other American/Filipina couples. Be sure to talk to happy Filipina wives as well as their American husbands. You should be try to get some cultural perspective on how your wife views her role and your role on the marriage, as well as what pressures she might be under from family at home to provide money. If you understand her point of view better, you might be able to communicate and problem solve more successfully, making everyone happier.

[Downtown]

She's constantly blackmailing me. For example, she might say if I don't go to church with her, then she'll destroy some of my property. Or she might say if I don't drop my request that she contribute to the household budget, she will quit her job so I will then have to cover all expenses.

Gerhard, perhaps you are correct that her selfish behavior is only a cultural difference. Yet, because she has been lying, "constantly blackmailing" you with vindictive threats, verbally abusing you, and acting like a child, there is a good chance she has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) or NPD (Narcissistic PD). BPDers, for example, have the emotional development of a four year old, usually due partly to heredity and partly to a trauma (abuse or abandonment) experienced before the age of five.

 

If that is the case, however, you also should see signs of her being unable to trust you (e.g., jealousy or other controlling behavior) and signs of instability (e.g., an endless cycle of pushing you away by creating hateful arguments over nothing and then, a day or a week later, pulling you back by being very caring and sweet). If that behavior sounds familiar, I suggest you read my description of what it is like to live with a BPDer (like my exW). I wrote it in two of my posts in Inigo's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453. If those described traits ring a bell, I would be glad to discuss them with you here in your thread.

[Annoioso]

xxoo, it is too easy to think anyone non-American or non-Anglo as 3rd world, dark, impoverished, and deprived. Remember, 43+ million Americans use foodstamps...that is almost 1.5x the population of Canada. Shadowstats lists the American unemployment rate at a little above 20%. Greek unemployment rate is around half that.

 

I've never looked at it in depth myself, but I've run into or acquainted with seemingly humble Filipinos working low level jobs in N. America brag about their land, properties, and "servants" back home. Pretty much the same thing I've heard from Indian acquaintances.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Gerhard, since I saw that you already have 180 posts, I checked out your previous posts.

 

Well, sigh, what you are describing is not new, isn't it. This is how it has been from the very start.

 

I think that you got what you bargained for. After your divorce, you wanted a young, easy wife and you thought this Filippina would not be as difficult as women from your own culture. Well, what a rude awakening that was!

 

Look, most women don't want to marry a guy who is 20 years older. So if they do, it is because there are some benefits. Your wife is a golddigger, who is only interested in getting as much money out of you to send to her family. She did not marry you out of love, she married you for your money (even if you don't have that many, she will make sure she squeezes out as much as possible). Unfortunately that is often how it is with these foreign women...

 

Of course, she is loving to you in a number of ways because she knows that if she wasn't, you would divorce her right away.

 

BTW, how is your sex life?

 

The only advice I have for you is to divorce her. She sounds like one mean disturbed woman. You will never have a true intimate love relationship with someone like that.

[Gerhard]

The men I know in similar marriages (marriage to a much younger, foreign bride) understand that sending money back to her family is part of the deal. It is a big reason that she considered leaving her culture and family to marry a man 20 years older than her. It isn't pretty and romantic, but it is reality. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you, but this is something that she expected when marrying you.

I was aware of this going in to the marriage. During our first year together, I was very generous with giving money to her family. But she would complain and would use crying fits to get me to comply with her wishes (sometimes I complied, sometimes I didn't). After she went to work, I let her keep almost all of her money and she sent almost all of it to the Philippines - yet we're barely making ends meet. So I suggested she contribute by paying for the groceries. She at first refused and I said we would just go hungry. She finally gave in.

 

You may think you are not well-off, but how well-off are you in comparison to her family in the Phillipines? You think she is greedy, but she might think you are being terribly greedy by having so much when her family has so little.

Living a comfortable life and having lots of money to spare after all expenses are paid are two totally unrelated things. What the Filipinas don't seem to understand is that there are bills to be paid.

 

You may get more helpful advice (and perspective) if you talk to other American/Filipina couples. Be sure to talk to happy Filipina wives as well as their American husbands. You should be try to get some cultural perspective on how your wife views her role and your role on the marriage, as well as what pressures she might be under from family at home to provide money. If you understand her point of view better, you might be able to communicate and problem solve more successfully, making everyone happier.

I understand the pressure she is under. But for me to fund her extravagancies in this area at the expense of our (not my) retirement account is ridiculous. She says she wants children, but she isn't willing to set aside money to help pay for a child. I'll believe she really wants children when she stops sending 100% of her discretionary money to her family and starts putting some aside for starting a family.

[Gerhard]

Gerhard, perhaps you are correct that her selfish behavior is only a cultural difference. Yet, because she has been lying, "constantly blackmailing" you with vindictive threats, verbally abusing you, and acting like a child, there is a good chance she has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) or NPD (Narcissistic PD). BPDers, for example, have the emotional development of a four year old, usually due partly to heredity and partly to a trauma (abuse or abandonment) experienced before the age of five.

 

If that is the case, however, you also should see signs of her being unable to trust you (e.g., jealousy or other controlling behavior) and signs of instability (e.g., an endless cycle of pushing you away by creating hateful arguments over nothing and then, a day or a week later, pulling you back by being very caring and sweet). If that behavior sounds familiar, I suggest you read my description of what it is like to live with a BPDer (like my exW). I wrote it in two of my posts in Inigo's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2826453#post2826453. If those described traits ring a bell, I would be glad to discuss them with you here in your thread.

It sounds like you're very familiar with this. She has been jealous in that she would incessantly tease me about my previous wife. She gets upset that my previous wife had more material goods than she does. I explain to her that things have changed - that I am more wise with my money now, don't have as much to spare after bills are paid and that my first wife had a fairly good income from a full time job.

 

She's constantly creating hateful arguments over nothing. And you're right - a day or two later, she's sweet and loving. She claims to be a Christian and has gone so far to say she has a "license to be bad" because she's a Christian.

 

I like to get away for some adventure every now and then - perhaps a weekend getaway or a week long trip. I'd be happy to take these trips by myself, but we usually go together. During the first part of our marriage, she would be a good companion for these trips. Now, she does everything she can to completely sabotage the trip. She'll sleep in, so we cannot see as much scenery. She'll refuse to get out of the car when we stop to go for a short hike or to see a view. She'll complain that the scenery is boring. She'll complain that we are getting home so late - after I specifically tell her the earlier we get going, the earlier we get home. Yet she stays up until 2 or 3 in the morning. I've had to design our itineraries so that I can do something on my own until about 11:00, then come back to the hotel, pick her up, check out and then we head off for the day. I think the only reason she goes is so she can be sure I'm not going off to see some other woman.

 

I took a quick glance at the PDF document at http://bpdfamily.com which you posted in the other thread. If you know of any other resources which highlight the type of disorders my wife has, can you please post the links here.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Gerhard

[tinktronik]

The men I know in similar marriages (marriage to a much younger, foreign bride) understand that sending money back to her family is part of the deal. It is a big reason that she considered leaving her culture and family to marry a man 20 years older than her. It isn't pretty and romantic, but it is reality. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you, but this is something that she expected when marrying you.

 

You may think you are not well-off, but how well-off are you in comparison to her family in the Phillipines? You think she is greedy, but she might think you are being terribly greedy by having so much when her family has so little.

 

You may get more helpful advice (and perspective) if you talk to other American/Filipina couples. Be sure to talk to happy Filipina wives as well as their American husbands. You should be try to get some cultural perspective on how your wife views her role and your role on the marriage, as well as what pressures she might be under from family at home to provide money. If you understand her point of view better, you might be able to communicate and problem solve more successfully, making everyone happier.

 

Bingo. Great post and spot on.

 

Perhaps the OP did not realize going into this that it is often simply a family dynamic that money is shared around, especially when one daughter marries a foreigner, because of the desperation many of their family members at home live in. It is simply an acceptable family dynamic to expect monetary help and not shameful. In fact, it would be shameful in her family if she did not insist that every penny that could be spared be sent to her family.

[Gerhard]

Bingo. Great post and spot on.

 

Perhaps the OP did not realize going into this that it is often simply a family dynamic that money is shared around, especially when one daughter marries a foreigner, because of the desperation many of their family members at home live in. It is simply an acceptable family dynamic to expect monetary help and not shameful. In fact, it would be shameful in her family if she did not insist that every penny that could be spared be sent to her family.

Since they don't have 401K or IRA accounts in the Philippines, they probably don't understand the concept of saving for the future. By marrying into the Filipina culture, am I supposed to abandon the principle of saving for a rainy day?

[xxoo]

And why is it assumed that you married into her culture and not that she married into yours? You are living in YOUR country, correct?

 

They married into each other's cultures. Each should be understood and respected.

 

Gerhard, did you two randomly meet and fall in love, or did you seek a younger bride from the Phillipines? Did she seek an older husband from the States? There may be an element of "be careful what you wish for" here, for both of you.

 

I understand your financial perspective. I share it, as a matter of fact. But your wife has a different, equally valid perspective. If the two of you are going to make it together, you are going to have to learn to LISTEN to each other, and respect each other's pov....rather than dismissing each other and insisting your way is the right way.

[Downtown]

Gerhard, since writing my first post, I've read many of your earlier posts, starting in May 2009. I therefore will respond to some issues raised in those earlier threads as well as the current one.

It's like [she thinks she] can kill her jealousy/fears by either destroying past mementos or interrogating me for an explanation. But by doing that, the jealousy/fears are still there.... That's what I'm dealing with (from your 5/5/09 post).

You are correct. There is absolutely nothing you can do to reduce her fear of abandonment. If she is a BPDer, she has been carrying that fear since early childhood. Moreover, her fear of engulfment is as strong as the fear of abandonment. This means that, as you draw close to comfort her and assure her of your love, she will feel suffocated and "controlled" by you. That is, trying to love her will be painful to her. Hence, trying to heal a BPDer by loving her is as counter-productive as trying to heal a burn patient by hugging her. Due to the pain of being loved, she will create arguments out of thin air in order to push you away.

 

Yet, as you back off to give her breathing room, you will trigger her other great fear: abandonment. This is why, after she throws an ugly tantrum (typically lasting five hours), a day or two later she will try to reel you back in by acting very caring and sweet. Then the cycle begins anew. Like you, I tried and tried to find the "Goldilocks position" midway between "too close" and "too far away." It took me 15 years to finally realize that such a position does not exist with BPDers. You will always be hurting her by triggering one fear (engulfment) or the other (abandonment).

She has been jealous in that she would incessantly tease me about my previous wife. ... I explain to her that things have changed - that I am more wise with my money now.

With regard to the jealousy, there is nothing you can do to reassure her. This is why she will be testing you endlessly. With my exW, for example, she hated my foster son, whom she was convinced I loved more than her. And she was jealous even of girls I had dated decades earlier when I was a teenager. The testing took the form of questioning and doing things she knew I would hate, such as overspending her budget. Part of the testing, then, is to see if you will still stay around (not abandon her) when she is doing something offensive. Because the fear stays with her no matter what you do, the testing is endless.

She's constantly creating hateful arguments over nothing. And you're right - a day or two later, she's sweet and loving.

If she is a BPDer, part of this hot/cold treatment is due to your triggering her twin fears, as I explained above. But it is also partly due to a BPDer's "all-or-nothing" thinking, wherein she classifies everyone (including herself) as "all good" or "all bad." Within ten seconds, she will reclassify a person from one extreme (all good) to the other (all bad) based solely on a minor offense. This is why a BPDer can switch immediately from adoring you to demeaning you. A BPDer is too uncomfortable with the middle ground, where a person could be thought of as "essentially good" even though he just did a bad thing. There is no middle ground.

She says she has a "license to be bad" because she's a Christian.

Most BPDers I've met are well above average in intelligence. I suspect that they have had to be smarter in order to survive a traumatic childhood. Yet, you will hear them say the dumbest things to avoid admitting that they made a mistake. You will marvel that any adult can say such a thing while keeping a straight face. One reason for the ridiculous statements is that, to a BPDer, an intense feeling constitutes "a fact," i.e., is her reality. Further, because BPDers have very low self esteem, the last thing BPDers want to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things they hate about themselves. Moreover, as I explained above, admitting to a mistake means (to them) that they are in the "all bad" category instead of the "all good."

 

This black-white type of thinking (called "splitting") is the type of thinking that most of us grow out of by the time we are in late childhood. But, even as adults, we continue to do it every time we experience very intense feelings, e.g., getting very angry. This is why we know to keep our mouths shut when we are angry. We also do this type of thinking when startled, which is why you can only think "jump right" or "jump left" when you suddenly look up to see a truck bearing down on you. Hence, this trait of "splitting" -- like the other BPD traits -- is the product of a primitive emotional defense that is essential to our survival (especially during childhood, when the mature defenses are not yet available).

I'm 100% in favor of joint counseling, but she's against it [your 5/11/11 post].

If she is a BPDer, marriage counseling likely will be useless. Teaching a BPDer better communication skills likely will only result in her being better at manipulating and controlling you. The only thing that will make a noticeable difference is years of weekly therapy from a clinical psychologist trained in treating BPDers (e.g., with Cognitive Behavior Therapy). It likely would take at least several years of such therapy for you to see any difference.

 

Moreover, it is highly unlikely that your W would seek such therapy, much less stay with it, because she is loath to take responsibility for her own actions, as you've described. Even if she "stays with it" -- as my exW did for 15 years at great expense to me -- she likely will just play mind games with the therapist. I spent a small fortune on her weekly sessions with six different psychologists (and two MCs) over 15 years -- all to no avail. Hence, unless a BPDer wants such therapy on her own, it likely will be pointless to demand that she do it as a condition of maintaining the marriage. I've been down that path and did not like the ending.

During the first part of our marriage, she would be a good companion for these trips. Now, she does everything she can to completely sabotage the trip.

Like you, I took my W on expensive vacations during the first several years of our marriage. But, due to her strong BPD traits, she would sabotage most vacations by starting an argument over nothing and then sulking or throwing a temper tantrum. It is common for a BPDer to act the very worst immediately after the very best weekend or after an intimate evening -- which causes her to feel engulfed by the intimacy.

If you know of any other resources which highlight the type of disorders my wife has, can you please post the links her.

Gerhard, the APA's Diagnostic Manual (DSM-IV) requires that a person have at least 5 of the 9 BPD traits at a very strong level in order to be diagnosed as "having BPD." Of course, only a professional can make that determination. This does not imply, however, that a strong occurrence of the traits is hard to spot.

 

On the contrary, you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to spot these traits in a woman you've been living with for nearly three years. It is easy to recognize a strong occurrence of BPD traits such as frequent verbal abuse, inability to trust, inability to regulate her emotions, frantic efforts to avoid imagined abandonment. Indeed, before you graduated from high school, you were already able to spot a strong occurrence of selfishness and grandiosity without being able to diagnose Narcissistic PD. And you could already spot the class show-off and the very shy students without knowing how to diagnose Histrionic PD or Avoidant PD. Likewise, you can learn to spot the red flags for BPD by understanding the traits. I therefore encourage you to read more about it.

 

At the same BPDfamily website where you read that article are another ten excellent articles discussing various aspects of the disorder. Also, if you did not yet read my second post in Inigo's thread, I suggest you read that for a quick overview of the traits. For a list of the nine BPD traits specified by DSM-IV, see http://www.palace.net/llama/psych/bpd.html#dsmiv.

 

The vast majority of BPDers "act out" by directing their anger onto loved ones. A small portion of them, however, "act in" by turning the anger inward. These BPDers are often referred to as "quiet borderlines" or "waif borderlines." I mention this because, if your W punishes you with a passive-aggressive ice-cold treatment -- instead of temper tantrums and verbal abuse -- I suggest you look at http://borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/borderline-pe-2.html, an article by A.J. Mahari. Another excellent article about Waif BPDers is by therapist Shari Schreiber at http://www.gettinbetter.com/waif.html.

 

Another good article by Schreiber is "Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?" at http://gettinbetter.com/needlove.html. She explains how many men (e.g., you and me) are taught in childhood to be caregivers to a fault. The result is that our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). We therefore end up helping other people even when it is to our great detriment to do so. And we start confusing "being needed" with "being loved," sometimes thinking we are loved when we are only needed. Moreover, we can get to the point that we cannot feel we are loved unless a person desperately needs us.

 

This is why so many of us extreme caregivers will walk right past the emotionally available women until we find one who projects vulnerability and desperately needs us. I mention this because BPDers -- always thinking of themselves as "victims" -- are masters at projecting vulnerability, which is "catnip" to caregivers like us. If this rings a bell with you, Gerhard, I believe you will find Schreiber's article (especially the last half) very insightful. She also provides several other good articles on BPD at her "Articles" page.

 

As to books, my favorites are "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." Both are targeted to the nonBPD partners like you and me.

[xxoo]

When considering the possibility of a personality disorder (and I am not denying it is a possibility), keep in mind that "normal" social behavior is culturally dependent. That is one reason I suggested talking to some other Filipina wives, who have been married longer and have adjusted well to life in the U.S.

 

If you truly suspect a mental health issue, please get a professional diagnosis.

[Goldenspoon]

Do you think she "love" you for the short term or the long term?

[hoping2heal]

I have been with my wife for about two years. She's from the Philippines and is about 20 years younger than me. For the most part, things are going very good. She is very loving, we have a lot of things we like to do together, she's good in the kitchen and does nice things for me, etc.

 

She's been greedy, asking me for sums of money to send to her family that we cannot afford. When I send smaller sums, she still tells me I'm stingy.

 

She has contributed very little to the household budget; I have sent her family in the Philippines lots of money; I have let her keep almost all of her income (when we're on a very tight cash flow) so she can send it to her family. Yet she calls me stingy.

 

She had opportunities to go to work, but after submitting an online application, refused to follow up and later said that they were not hiring.

 

She acts like a child when we go off on vacations or on day trips. (doing things like throwing food crumbs & trash around the car or sulking when we make a stop to see a site). Before we go, it's made clear to that these are sightseeing/scenery trips. And all she'll want to do is go shopping. So I remind her that we're out to do some sightseeing and if she wants to go shopping, we can go another time.

 

She claims to be a Christian, yet she has lied, stolen, been greedy, etc. She even said that being a Christian gave her a "license" to behave that way.

 

She admitted she lied to me about a few things prior to coming to the USA so she could get here.

 

She incessantly teased me about my first wife during the first year of our marriage.

 

She's constantly blackmailing me. For example, she might say if I don't go to church with her, then she'll destroy some of my property. Or she might say if I don't drop my request that she contribute to the household budget, she will quit her job so I will then have to cover all expenses.

 

I try writing her notes, but she refuses to read them. I try having rational discussions with her, but she refuses to discuss things in a reasonable manner. She refuses to go to counseling together.

 

In summary, she's acting like a 5 year old

 

Any thoughts on what I could do?

 

Can you really be that surprised by her behavior? She is a foreigner from the phillipines, who is 20 years younger than you. What do you think was the point of marrying you? You are old enough to be her father, and clearly she agrees. Also, many foreigners are "taught" to rope American men so they can provide for their families back home in those other countries. You just really cannot be that surprised by all of this, can you? To be fair, you chose to bring over someone in an extremely vulnerable situation who would have to be reliant and dependant on you, and who was literally decades younger than you. You kind of got what you bargained for.