Strip Clubs

[LittleTiger]

No, no, no....the whole point of the thread is that if women have any feelings whatsoever aside from adoration of their men that we are controlling, manipulative and oppressive, try to keep up!

 

Although this obviously isn't the point of the thread, I'm continually astonished at how many men do seem to think this way. It's actually quite worrying!

[DaisyLeigh]

Why should he stop going just because you are bothered. You choose to be bothered and you can chose not to be. He isnt cheating on you, he is going to relax wind down, hang out with his friends and look at some tit and ass. He is being entertained. Women always think that just because we are bothered by somethng, that means he has to change. What about his feelings and what he wants. Maybe he is bothered by you being bothered by him doing something he enjoys and not even all the time. And he isnt hurting you or anyone else

 

Yes, because GOD FORBID a man actually consider the feelings of his wife and stop acting like a frat boy. Oh no...musn't have a negative feeling about his activities, since after all, you are merely the woman, OP.

[dreamingoftigers]

Although this obviously isn't the point of the thread, I'm continually astonished at how many men do seem to think this way. It's actually quite worrying!

 

I have (slowly) learned that it comes with the delivery. I think a lot of guys get some damage in childhood and then the testosterone in adulthood reinforces the "best defence is a good offence" theory.

 

If it is framed as hurt, sadness, anger, or ignoring or resent then automatically it is an "attack" or "manipulation." It would seem that it might be linked to 2 factors:

 

1. The emotional processing center in women is like an 8-lane highway after puberty whereas in (most) men it is more of a country road. There is about a 10% overlap between the most sensitive males and the most insensitive females.

 

This does not mean that men have fewer emotions. It means that their ability to make sense of them and read others emotions is impaired compared to the average woman. We tend to take this for granted.

 

Then combine that with the testosterone which keeps men ready for action and you have a recipe for male-female conflict.

 

I copied this conversation in another thread that I posted it in:

 

Example of how these fights start:

 

Woman: "You don't spend time with me anymore"

( translation: please spend some time with me, I want a hug.)

 

Man: (hears) "you are inadequate in our relationship, you don't fill my quality time needs, you fail."

 

(responds) " we spent time together last week when we watched the football game, it's always bitch bitch bitch."

 

( translation: don't attack me, you show me where I am wrong, now I am gonna show you where you are wrong, you aren't going to get away with this.)

 

She: (hears) "you aren't important, I don't want to spend anymore time with you, I spend enough, now leave me alone."

 

(responds): "fine."

 

He (thinks): "good thing we set that straight, now she appreciates me"

 

She ( thinks): "he doesn't love me enough to just do this one little thing for me.

 

DUH! men often think women are on the attack when in reality they are often trying to draw close.

 

Women aren't often able to present what is bothering them in a calm, completely emotionless manner though. Often we think that the emotional presentation should get us somewhere further. With our friends for instance if we cry they see right away that we are in pain and comfort us because they can process the cue. It doesn't seem to work as universally with guys.

[dreamingoftigers]

So for us in relationships we think:

 

"If I show this guy how sad I am, he will see that I am opening my heart to him and he will change the thing that is making me feel this way or we will talk and come to a comprimise. Then he will be happy with us again because we will have drawn close by solving this together. And we will have bonded.

 

Meanwhile he sees one frown and his mind goes: "Find cover......INCOMING!"

[sweetjasmine]

No, no, no....the whole point of the thread is that if women have any feelings whatsoever aside from adoration of their men that we are controlling, manipulative and oppressive, try to keep up!

 

Seriously just kidding guys.

 

That's because men are extremely emotional, fragile creatures controlled by their hormones.

[dreamingoftigers]

That's because men are extremely emotional, fragile creatures controlled by their hormones.

 

Aren't we all....*sighs*

 

[StoneCold]

Although this obviously isn't the point of the thread, I'm continually astonished at how many men do seem to think this way. It's actually quite worrying!

 

Actually tattoomommy reads to be a female

[LittleTiger]

Actually tattoomommy reads to be a female

 

I'm not with you?

 

My post referred to DOT's tongue in cheek comment (which was in reply to mine) - nothing to do with TattooMommy - who I agree is female.

[StoneCold]

dreaming...

 

interesting points....

 

But I'm inclined to think that the reason why men think they are under attack from females is because on a broad scale....they actually ARE.

 

Look around you, pay close attention to the behaviors of the media over the last 20 or so years. Its never considered sexist to say disparaging things about men...its ok to discriminate against men...its ok to emasculate them...there has been a constant push to feminise men (pay attention to guys around you and whats happening to them). Men are portrayed as hapless dopes in the media that would be lost without the "superior" woman.

 

It appears that on the broad level women (not all) demand all this respect but are but have no itention of giving it

 

Contrary to what many think we are not THAT dumb and some of us do notice whats happening here and we are not standing for it anymore

[Flgirl44]

dreaming...

 

interesting points....

 

But I'm inclined to think that the reason why men think they are under attack from females is because on a broad scale....they actually ARE.

 

Look around you, pay close attention to the behaviors of the media over the last 20 or so years. Its never considered sexist to say disparaging things about men...its ok to discriminate against men...its ok to emasculate them...there has been a constant push to feminise men (pay attention to guys around you and whats happening to them). Men are portrayed as hapless dopes in the media that would be lost without the "superior" woman.

 

It appears that on the broad level women (not all) demand all this respect but are but have no itention of giving it

 

Contrary to what many think we are not THAT dumb and some of us do notice whats happening here and we are not standing for it anymore

 

Guys grab your pitchforks and convene at your local stripclub, this is a revolution!!

 

hahaha sorry I got all whipped up:laugh: I do agree with some of your points, I think that the woman bimbo stereotype is used quite often as well in the media so it's not a one way street though.

[xxoo]

dreaming...

 

interesting points....

 

But I'm inclined to think that the reason why men think they are under attack from females is because on a broad scale....they actually ARE.

 

Look around you, pay close attention to the behaviors of the media over the last 20 or so years. Its never considered sexist to say disparaging things about men...its ok to discriminate against men...its ok to emasculate them...there has been a constant push to feminise men (pay attention to guys around you and whats happening to them). Men are portrayed as hapless dopes in the media that would be lost without the "superior" woman.

 

It appears that on the broad level women (not all) demand all this respect but are but have no itention of giving it

 

Contrary to what many think we are not THAT dumb and some of us do notice whats happening here and we are not standing for it anymore

 

There is political (men vs. women in society).

 

And then there is personal (a husband and wife).

 

If you (general you--any man or woman) interact with your partner through the filter of your valid political concerns, you won't hear your partner. You will hear "men" or "women", but you won't hear your partner.

 

I understand the concerns about man/woman politics. I have my issues with "men", as well But I don't put those issues onto my husband, who is one individual (not all men).

[LittleTiger]

dreaming...

 

interesting points....

 

But I'm inclined to think that the reason why men think they are under attack from females is because on a broad scale....they actually ARE.

 

Look around you, pay close attention to the behaviors of the media over the last 20 or so years. Its never considered sexist to say disparaging things about men...its ok to discriminate against men...its ok to emasculate them...there has been a constant push to feminise men (pay attention to guys around you and whats happening to them). Men are portrayed as hapless dopes in the media that would be lost without the "superior" woman.

 

It appears that on the broad level women (not all) demand all this respect but are but have no itention of giving it

 

Contrary to what many think we are not THAT dumb and some of us do notice whats happening here and we are not standing for it anymore

 

I would be interested to know where you get the idea that woman (in general) say disparaging things about men, or discrimate against them or try to emasculate them. I don't know where you see these 'hapless dopes' in the media either, or these superior women. My experience of the world and the media is very different from yours.

 

I don't see anything majorly offensive happening to either men or women these days, as a general rule - the media has pretty strict guidelines on discrimination. Occasionally you will get films, songs and books that 'hint', rather subtely, at male domination and, if anything, women are still fighting for equality in most areas. The world is still a man's world and old habit's die hard.

 

Men are not under attack from women - in general, though no doubt there are specific women who like to be in control.

 

Personally, I don't hold modern young men responsible for the history of their culture but I do expect everyone, male and female, to 'do unto others ......'

[dreamingoftigers]

dreaming...

 

interesting points....

 

But I'm inclined to think that the reason why men think they are under attack from females is because on a broad scale....they actually ARE.

 

Look around you, pay close attention to the behaviors of the media over the last 20 or so years. Its never considered sexist to say disparaging things about men...its ok to discriminate against men...its ok to emasculate them...there has been a constant push to feminise men (pay attention to guys around you and whats happening to them). Men are portrayed as hapless dopes in the media that would be lost without the "superior" woman.

 

It appears that on the broad level women (not all) demand all this respect but are but have no itention of giving it

 

Contrary to what many think we are not THAT dumb and some of us do notice whats happening here and we are not standing for it anymore

 

Bluntly, I don't doubt it in general but further to that is the fact that we are under constant scrutiny and shame as well. This is not isolated to one gender.

 

It may seem so because your side is really getting hit, but to be quite frank you may see your side as simply "Reacting" when to us it looks like the offensive again.

 

It will go back and forth until one side just stops reacting to it and the other side realizes that it is just really getting old. I do believe that the common person walking down the street has little say and belief in the divisiveness of media.

 

Are you an American by chance? If so I've spent quite a bit of time down there and have been pretty shocked by the extreme points of a lot of views. It seems like the more one side pulls this way <--------, the more the other side pulls this way -----------> to make a point.

 

Until men and/or women reach a point where they try to see the other side a little more, things like this will continue.

 

There is also a sense that women may in fact be overcorrecting for so many centuries of patriarchal treatment. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion over what everyone's role should be. Who should do housework and when (if) should women be staying home to raise children. Are we all just supposed to work it out ourselves and everyone be cool with that or are people like stay-at-home Dad's being emasculated?

 

We may in fact be overcompensating and trying to do all and be all and fill all roles and that may not be healthy for either gender.

 

Let's just say that in the old days women got their self-esteem, role, fulfillment (whatever) from doing X

 

And men had their place doing Y

 

Men always had the option to do X but women did not have the option to do Y.

 

Women fought for the option to do Y and now many are doing Y. But men doing X still seems unacceptible. (Raising children, being sensitive etc.).

 

So all of a sudden women have X and Y covered leaving men with Y? (sometimes? when needed? what?).

 

I don't envy your position. But firing back isn't going to give you back Y full-time and monopolized. The best thing would probably be on a case by case basis to knock down serious power-plays. But not to interpret a simple day to day argument between a man and wife as an overarching political agenda.

 

As men and women we still argue and not understand each other, it doesn't mean that she is out to control him with her Oprah-army.

The more men see threats coming from all sides and try to squelch them, the less effective they will be for the real equality battle. They will have spent their resources on little battles that weren't even part of the war.

 

Best to confirm if there is an actual threat before proceeding. I think this thread shows a woman who is hurt by her husband's actions. Not the political gender-war stance of someone trying to "change and fix" her man to be her servant-zombie.

 

Truly as women we often have no other template to go on then what other women recommend. Especially when we go to men for advice and get told that we are trying to "control" "manipulate" and "oppress" our partner when we have a basic point we are trying to raise.

 

Frankly, it makes men look angry and nuts. (Which is ironic because during the Women's Movement early stages that's what they called us.) We seriously don't get why men think this. It seems so strange without the explanations of brain function. As well, when a segment of the population that has been put-under for so long suddenly gets a burst of power, sometimes they don't know what to do with it. In the beginning we didn't even know how to demand it.

 

You think you are lost? hah! I just know that in the 80 ways I am supposed to measure up as a woman I flunk 79 of them. I am sure that part of what you are experiencing on your side in insecurity gone rampant. As we are told: you don't measure up, we start saying to others: you don't measure up to make ourselves feel better (luckily I know the folly of this and avoid it).

 

I really have never heard in my life in any kind of seriousness "I am going to kick his man-ass and show him who is boss." We joke about it, we do. I have honestly never tried to show my husband that I am in charge and it all goes my way. He seems to think differently often but has slowly (very slowly) come to see that often I am emotionally expressing (opening my heart) something of value to him and not only is it not an insult or threat, it is an opportunity for him to bond with me. I see more now that the emotion which can so effectively be used to communicate with other women is viewed as an attack or weakness by my husband. (Who also has foundational issues).

 

Often women do the actions that show that they are "opening their heart" and men hear an attack so they attack back right at the woman's open heart. Then they wonder why their wife grows cold and resents them. It isn't all one-sided, women have to learn how to deliver their message in a way that can be heard and men need to learn to listen for content. It isn't as mystical as it is made out to be.

 

Probably over the next 20 years things will settle down and men and women will adjust to varying degrees of X and Y and then many of these misunderstandings won't be so hard to deal with.

 

[LittleTiger]

I've always understood that the American/Canadian culture was somewhat different from the English one - LS, and in particular these last few posts on this thread, has highlighted it dramatically for me.

 

We could open a thread to discuss this topic specifically and I reckon it would go on for years and into a triple number of pages.

 

In England, I believe men still have the upper hand in most areas - things appear to be somewhat different on your side of the Atlantic Ocean.

 

If women are really portrayed as 'all powerful', no wonder you guys have such a 'bee in your bonnet' about it.

 

Do American men wear bonnets? :p Sorry, not funny!

 

(I think we're all going to get an infraction in a minute for TJing!)

[dreamingoftigers]

Apparently strip clubs have buffets in a lot of locations, perhaps the OPs husband merely wanted lunch. (There, we are on topic).

 

Canadian/American culture is fairly close but there are marked differences and we (Canadian) seem to more closely identify with the British system then Americans. We seem to be holding more to tradition etc.

 

Plus we don't have the media extremes as much. I found the US to be rather, well, overloading in it's media. The tones are so excited and dramatic and divisive often. We get tons of American media up here but the movies and things seem really out of touch (I find).

 

For instance you know those high-school movies that come out of Hollywood with the scary-bully type guy who is arrogant and "all that."

 

To me that seemed like a fictional character completely unlike me personal high school experience, but when I went to certain American areas I found people like 'that guy' around. Life imitating art or art imitating life I don't know.

 

I am not in any way knocking the US or its people in fact many of them were far more friendly and concerned and overall I find their police friendlier and more professional. I just find their media to be the things I stated previously.

 

It makes sense though, but provoking strong emotions, people but into it more and the media wants to sell. Jerry Springer was quite popular for awhile but I doubt that a large majority of the population wants to partake in that type of lifestyle. (Yes we know that some do). But it did evoke strong feelings by watching people get hurt, go nuts and fight.

[dreamingoftigers]

From what I understand of England's divorce laws, that should somewhat underline the difference.

 

Perhaps the OPs husband would have better luck with strip clubs in England (there, on topic).

[LittleTiger]

Perhaps the OPs husband would have better luck with strip clubs in England (there, on topic).

 

Do we have strip clubs in England???!!! Oh my goodness! :laugh:

[dreamingoftigers]

Don't you?

[LittleTiger]

Don't you?

 

Yes!

 

(Sorry, English humour!)

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes!

 

(Sorry, English humour!)

 

Jeepers I should know better (one of my best friends is from Cambridge).

 

She says that Canadians use more Northern English words. It took us awhile to be able to translate what we were saying to each other hah!

 

Maybe the OPs husband would have better luck going to Strip Clubs in Canada.

(okay okay enough)

[Woggle]

In a nutshell the point is that if women want to demand respect they should be willing to give it as well and too many are unwilling to give it. They want respect to be a one way street and many men of my generation and younger who in many cases treated women with respect for a very long time are saying no more. I don't deserve to be abused and hated just because I was born with a penis.

[LittleTiger]

In a nutshell the point is that if women want to demand respect they should be willing to give it as well and too many are unwilling to give it. They want respect to be a one way street and many men of my generation and younger who in many cases treated women with respect for a very long time are saying no more. I don't deserve to be abused and hated just because I was born with a penis.

 

Most men are not abused or hated Woggle.

 

Most men and women do treat each other with a reasonable amount of respect.

 

Your view of the world is still a little warped, I'm sorry to say.

[dreamingoftigers]

In a nutshell the point is that if women want to demand respect they should be willing to give it as well and too many are unwilling to give it. They want respect to be a one way street and many men of my generation and younger who in many cases treated women with respect for a very long time are saying no more. I don't deserve to be abused and hated just because I was born with a penis.

 

What you give out in respect to another should have no bearing on the respect they do/do not give you.

 

You set a boundary and a bottom line. If anyone of either gender crosses it, then they lose your support.

 

I continue to show people the same level of respect no matter what they show to me because I respect myself first (mostly all course all of this is a work in progress.)

 

Those who do not respect tend to smarten up much better when someone does respect them rather then insults them on top of it all.

 

When some crazy chick says: "All men should have been aborted" I tend to be curious as to why and give my genuine thoughts on the matter. I also stand my ground against hatred by not shaming someone but pointing out how harmful the attitude is and the consequences of it.

 

If I respond back with "you should've been aborted you crazy bitch." Then no one is any better and I have disrespected myself by insulting someone (no matter how much it appears to be deserved).

 

You never win a war of opinions by firing at the person instead of the opinion.

[Woggle]

What you give out in respect to another should have no bearing on the respect they do/do not give you.

 

You set a boundary and a bottom line. If anyone of either gender crosses it, then they lose your support.

 

I continue to show people the same level of respect no matter what they show to me because I respect myself first (mostly all course all of this is a work in progress.)

 

Those who do not respect tend to smarten up much better when someone does respect them rather then insults them on top of it all.

 

When some crazy chick says: "All men should have been aborted" I tend to be curious as to why and give my genuine thoughts on the matter. I also stand my ground against hatred by not shaming someone but pointing out how harmful the attitude is and the consequences of it.

 

If I respond back with "you should've been aborted you crazy bitch." Then no one is any better and I have disrespected myself by insulting someone (no matter how much it appears to be deserved).

 

You never win a war of opinions by firing at the person instead of the opinion.

 

Do you extend this same courtesy to men as well?

[dreamingoftigers]

Do you extend this same courtesy to men as well?

 

I may not have always, (out of ignorance) is there a particular incident that suggests that I don't/haven't?