He left

[26pointblue]

I would be very concerned about this. You later say he was questioning you about other guys you have been with (was this during or before the affair?). It sounds to me like he is struggling with feelings of disrespect and distrust for you. I would never be with a man who said our relationship made him feel "icky". That's one aspect of being an OW that I will never understand because I would never be okay with being a secret or being with someone who doesn't exactly feel proud of me or our relationship. I would be very leery of this if I were you. Your hoping he gets over these feelings but I wouldn't count on it. Yes his feelings are hypocritcal, but in the end it won't matter to him if he's a hyprocrite or not, he wants whats best for him and right now he's questioning if you are good enough to have a future with. Even if he never goes back I would be concerned about this, because once his emotions settle he might start looking around for a relationship that doesn't have an 'icky' history to it.

 

The feeling 'icky' about us comment was in relation to how he felt when thinking about the way that his wife discovered us out, with his friends. I do understand that he could feel that way & honestly I feel 'icky' about what we've done too, especially in the context of the guilt & shame that came from the way that we were re-re-discovered.

 

But you're right, if these feelings don't go away then we can't be happy together. I am hoping for a new start & for both of us to remember that we did those things because we loved each other & because he was too scared & afraid of change to get out of his situation in a better way.

 

The questioning about the guys I dated came about because his wife told him she's worried she could have gotten an STD from him. He knows I dated & slept with guys while we were not together. [At the end of our being together the last time I told him I needed to move on & start seeing other people if he couldn't get divorced. That's what finally drove him to accept NC-he knew I was seeing other guys & didn't like it. I didn't like it either but I was trying not to be tied down to him. Then we were apart for a couple months with no contact whatsover & I thought we were totally done, he was working on his marriage, etc. [& he thought that too- it was how we had ended things, presumably for good], so yeah I dated & I slept with a couple guys & I can't say I'm proud of that, in fact I regret it, but I was in a low place & missing him & just trying to move on- it was stupid. He knew I was dating & he knew I had slept with other people while we were apart but last night he was asking me for details & saying he felt hurt, etc. It was ugly because I wish I hadn't done it but not just because of him [i thought we were done & so did he] but also for myself, I guess I just should have been alone for awhile even though it was hard. So yeah maybe he can't accept that I went a bit wild when we broke up- I get that, but then is it like he's stuck with me? He hates me but he's stuck with me because his wife kicked him out? He knew about the other guys, I always tell him everything, probably too much, & he didn't have a problem until now. Like the whole time we were back in the affair he said he knows he had chosen to stay married & so I needed to move on & I was trying to find myself [in all the wrong places- that's my insertion, not his] . . . & he knows I only want to be with him, which is true. I would never cheat on him. And I am done having casual sex even if he & I don't work out, it's just not fun for me & I reget it afterwards. He knows all of this & he has been okay with it until now, I guess now that he left or got kicked out or whatever & is faced w/ being only with me & I guess maybe regretting it! And now that his wife is worried about her sexual health which I do understand- I think it's a product of his guilt over how careless he had been & how much he has hurt her. But I do feel that he sometimes transfers guilt over his own actions onto me, which may make it easier for him to not focus on his own part in this, or something [but he does have moments where he totally gets the extent of what he did & knows it was his own choice, even though I was there with him.]

 

Wow I can't believe I put all of that out there on a public forum. I am just really struggling right now about what to do. At times I feel his very strong love for me & vice versa & I think we are going to get through this & be okay. At other times I fear he hates me, thinks I'm a bad person, doesn't want to be with me anymore but has to be because he has no one, etc. I don't know if I'm just being insecure or if I'm listening to my gut. Maybe this is just a very messed up relationship! I just want to be in a good normal relationship & I know that can't happen with him for awhile but I do want it to happen with him or else I want to be able to move on & find a healthy relationship.

Edited April 8, 2011 by 26pointblue

[alexandria35]

Oh I think he is totally transfering his own guilt and shame onto you. That's a very common reaction of people who have done things they are ashamed of.

 

So has everyone in this situation been tested for STD's? His wife is right to be concerned but I bet he didn't tell her about the other guys so she might not know that she really needs to be tested. I think all of you should probably get tested and at least put that worry to rest.

[Jane Deaux]

I think you guys are going to be fine. It is just very very hard to end a marriage. Even one you aren't happy in. You(general) go back and forth in your mind about all the things you are losing and the way of life that you are VERY COMFORTABLE in. Those thoughts are very very confusing. You confuse them with missing the person and wanting them back, ect. Your life is OVER as you knew it and you are starting something completely different. I myself am not in love with my husband, and 90% of the time I would think of leaving him, being on my own, and maybe one day finding real love again. NOW, Now that I've brought this out into the open, and he knows I'm not happy, and the subject, although the word divorce has not been said, the insinuation is there, I am scared. I go back and forth. I think, OMG I can't do this. It would be devastating to so many people. So, the closer it was to a reality, the more I am rethinking my strength to leave. I'm STILL not in love with him. I still don't want to kiss him, touch him, have him touch me, I don't want his endearments, ect. BUT, I am still scared. And now, I don't know If Ill leave. I'm frightened to pieces of not making a good life for my kids, of them missing their daddy sooo much that it hurts all of us. I'm terrified of hurting my H. I do love him. I'm just not in love with him and I think, doesn't he deserve someone who LOVES him and wants his kiss, touch, ect. So you see, I'm all over the place, and I haven't even left my H, or been kicked out or whatever. So I BET your MM is a wreck right now. And he may be trying his best to tamp down all the crazy feelings and get on an even keel again, but it's hard when such drastic changes are occurring.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Jane Deaux

[26pointblue]

Oh I think he is totally transfering his own guilt and shame onto you. That's a very common reaction of people who have done things they are ashamed of.

 

So has everyone in this situation been tested for STD's? His wife is right to be concerned but I bet he didn't tell her about the other guys so she might not know that she really needs to be tested. I think all of you should probably get tested and at least put that worry to rest.

 

I just set up an appointment for testing & he said his wife did too.

 

I agree she's right to be concerned & I feel horrible if it would turn out that she has anything.

[26pointblue]

I think you guys are going to be fine. It is just very very hard to end a marriage. Even one you aren't happy in. You(general) go back and forth in your mind about all the things you are losing and the way of life that you are VERY COMFORTABLE in. Those thoughts are very very confusing. You confuse them with missing the person and wanting them back, ect. Your life is OVER as you knew it and you are starting something completely different. I myself am not in love with my husband, and 90% of the time I would think of leaving him, being on my own, and maybe one day finding real love again. NOW, Now that I've brought this out into the open, and he knows I'm not happy, and the subject, although the word divorce has not been said, the insinuation is there, I am scared. I go back and forth. I think, OMG I can't do this. It would be devastating to so many people. So, the closer it was to a reality, the more I am rethinking my strength to leave. I'm STILL not in love with him. I still don't want to kiss him, touch him, have him touch me, I don't want his endearments, ect. BUT, I am still scared. And now, I don't know If Ill leave. I'm frightened to pieces of not making a good life for my kids, of them missing their daddy sooo much that it hurts all of us. I'm terrified of hurting my H. I do love him. I'm just not in love with him and I think, doesn't he deserve someone who LOVES him and wants his kiss, touch, ect. So you see, I'm all over the place, and I haven't even left my H, or been kicked out or whatever. So I BET your MM is a wreck right now. And he may be trying his best to tamp down all the crazy feelings and get on an even keel again, but it's hard when such drastic changes are occurring.

 

You pretty much describe his feelings although you are more direct about it. I think this is exactly what he's going through. I do believe he loves me & I hope that love can carry us through. I know that right now is tumultuous for him & I'm just trying to be there for him but also take care of myself because I have no guarantee he won't go back or want to move on from me etc. Thank you for sharing what it's like. I understand to the extent that I'm able. I do know it's a huge earth-shattering decision to leave the life that he knew for 20 years.

[Carrot2000]

But when he got over his demeanor had changed again, it was as if he was mad at me. He started talking to me about guys I had dated when we were apart & I was just like, woah, we weren't together then, I thought we were done for good, you were with your wife, etc. He said he knows but it bothers him.

 

OUCH!

 

I get that he's in turmoil, but bringing up your dating life while you were separated is unfair. He's searching for faults in you and will use this as a possible reason for returning home ("I can't trust you") should he make that decision.

 

I hope you called him on this. Retroactive jealousy isn't cool, especially from a man who is MARRIED.

[Irishlove]

My MM said this too because he was sleeping with his wife everytime we had an arguement. He can but you can't...BTDT. Watch out because if he is jealous that means HE is doing something. Double standard.

[26pointblue]

I did call him on it & I agree it's not cool. I don't think he's doing anything, I think he juest learned some new details he didn't like. But hey he asked! I think he should leave it in the past because we weren't together then & he's just torturing himself. And yeah maybe looking for excuses not to be with me. If he decides that then ok- I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

[Carrot2000]

And yeah maybe looking for excuses not to be with me. If he decides that then ok- I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

 

I don't think he's so much looking as excuses not to be with you, but rather looking for ways to place the blame on you in the event that things don't work out. It also points to his insecurity; he may be more concerned about the age difference than before.

[26pointblue]

I don't think he's so much looking as excuses not to be with you, but rather looking for ways to place the blame on you in the event that things don't work out. It also points to his insecurity; he may be more concerned about the age difference than before.

 

Yeah, the first time around he was worried about our age difference, but then when we got back together he said he wasn't anymore. But now he probably is again, realizing that while he's been married for all this time I've been young & single. That's just the way it is . . . he'll have to take it or leave it I guess.

[26pointblue]

Tonight I keep finding myself asking if I don't deserve better than this.

 

Nothing has really changed in terms of him making a decision except that he got kicked out & therefore the decision is at least temporarily made for him. What else has changed is that he doesn't want [or can't] see me nearly as much as before [which I do understand], & that at times it just feels like the love is gone! He gets angry & even mean to me. Which I don't understand! I am still the exact same person I was but it's like he's different in a bad way when it comes to us.

 

I love him, & in the past I've felt so strongly that he loved me. But now I really don't know. It brings me more pain than happiness. I don't want to leave him when he needs me the most. But this is really making me feel so low.

 

I don't know what to do.

[Silly_Girl]

"It brings me more pain than happiness"

 

It is important that if you intend to have this relationship, that you change the above quick-sharp.

 

I won't comment on whether you should be there for him, above your own happiness, or not. I know I would have done - for a time at least. But really - what use are you to the guy if you're only going to become more and more unhappy and lose yourself in the 'drama' and uncertainty.

 

I'm not suggesting you bail, but I think you need to focus on re- centring yourself and ensuring things are good with YOU.

[26pointblue]

SillyGirl. My issue is that it has to be a two-way street. He has not been showing me that he loves me & believes in us. I can't do it all on my own. I deserve to be treated well, & at least considered & spoken to in kindness, not meanness, even if his world is in turmoil.

[Silly_Girl]

Exactly. So something needs to change if the bad outweighs the good.

[TinaniT]

SillyGirl. My issue is that it has to be a two-way street. He has not been showing me that he loves me & believes in us. I can't do it all on my own. I deserve to be treated well, & at least considered & spoken to in kindness, not meanness, even if his world is in turmoil.

 

This is absolutely true.

[Carrot2000]

His behavior is not unusual, nor is it a sign that he no longer loves you. What's happening is that the reality of his situation is hitting him. When in affair-mode, things were easy with you: you went out publicly, met with friends, had a good time. When he fantasized about a life with you, he imagined things would be the same as they were in affair-mode--easy and fun. Real life, however is looking much different. Being with you means giving up his partner of 20 years. It means giving up a life that is comfortable, familiar, safe and stable,and possibly giving up the respect of his children. He may be questioning whether or not he really wanted things to go this far with you. He may be doing a cost-benefit analysis to see if what he's getting is more than what he's giving up. He's in hell right now.

 

I'm not saying this because I feel sorry for him because he chose to invite this chaos into in life, but you're expecting too much, too soon.

 

Read this thread from a poster who was going through something similar:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t250915/

[26pointblue]

In that thread ConfusedNoMore said he may just be testing the waters & keeping OW as an option. I am realizing that that is a crappy place to be [an option.]. And in my case I think it's worse because lately MM hasn't been acting like I'm an option, but instead as someone's stuck with [a default?]. I think he completely regrets me.

[26pointblue]

I understand what he's going through & that it's not going to be all rosy right now, or even rosy at all.

 

What I keep thinking though is that if I don't feel that he loves me or respects me right now, what am I doing with him? Don't I deserve better? I'm not talking about him having him as a full-time partner, or having my needs met by him. What I'm talking about is feeling that he really loves me & respects me even when everything is hard & crazy.

[26pointblue]

So perhaps now is the time to step back, not just for him because he needs time right now, but for you. Try to take a breather and give you both some needed time and space. Take care of you first.

 

I agree & that's what I've been trying to do today [i suppose because I have no other choice. ] I went to the gym & did a hard run, lifted weights & soaked in the hot tub while reading a book. Tonight I'm going out with friends. I didn't hear from him until about an hour ago asking if we were talking or not & to let him know. When I saw the message [it was when I was in the gym] I wrote back that that was up to him.

 

I am just going to focus on myself & my own life & not expect anything from him, yet be here for him if he needs me. I'm really not used to such a situation but I'm trying to find some balance. I won't tolerate him being mean to me under any circumstance; I don't deserve that. But other than that I'll just wait & see what he does, what he decides, & if he truly loves me or not. [i know that the question of whether he loves me is separate & apart from whether he will get divorced. But this is the first time I've questioned whether he loves me, & so to me it is important to see how that issue turns out.]

 

Thank you SadInTexas & the rest of you for the help.

[Carrot2000]

What I'm talking about is feeling that he really loves me & respects me even when everything is hard & crazy.

 

This man hasn't been loving or respectful of anyone for while.

[26pointblue]

This man hasn't been loving or respectful of anyone for while.

 

I agree.

 

I think that he is realizing now the extent of the hurt he's caused [with my help]. I hope that he's taking this time to examine what he really wants & be true to himself. But I fear that he is just doing whatever's necessary to keep the door open with his wife & with me. [Actually I think both of those are true . . . he is feeling remorse & guilt & shame, & trying to think about what he really wants, & he is also trying to keep both of us while he decides.] Another issue is that I don't know if I can trust him . . . yes, I know that's ironic. I am almost positive he went to dinner with another woman [who he says is his friend, but, I out of everyone know how that goes . . .] on Thursday & that has been really bugging me. I feel like now I am to him what his wife was when he was with me - a place he can come to when he wants to or needs to, but who he ignores or mistreats when he's being selfish. I know this is to be incredibly expected & deserved but I didn't see it coming.

 

I don't know if he really knows how to love someone. :-( We have an incredibly deep passion & connection but he doesn't know how to put my, or his wife's, or his kids', needs before his own. I do hope he learns this & can change. I do still have hope but it is taxing.

 

I want him to be truly happy, & I myself want to be truly happy. I know I too have been selfish, to me it was in the name of love, but when I start to question the quality of his love I realize that I helped cause all of that hurt for nothing . . . except maybe more pain to myself & everyone else.

 

I'm not trying to put him down, just to be honest about what I'm feeling. He has many amazing qualities & I'm just hoping he can face his demons & become someone who acts on what he wants [whatever that is].

[26pointblue]

I just heard from him . . . the strange thing is that last night we had planned to go out with my friend & then for him to stay over. At the last minute he cancelled, saying he was feeling bummed & was just going to go to his sister's & chill. This is when he got kind of mean to me, saying he didn't feel like 'going bar-hopping' & 'partying' [we weren't] & whenever I mentioned our prior plans & asked him what was wrong, he got super sarcastic with me & said 'Well I apologize that being bummed screwed up you & [my friend]'s plans. How could i be so uncaring! How insensitive of me!!!'

 

I was just rather aghast at how he was treating me. Now he asked me if I have plans tonight & said if I did, that's cool, he'll just head to his parents or sister's. It almost seems like he is not seeing me when planned & then wanting to see me when not planned . . . he is just so all over the place. I understand that due to the nature of the situation he doesn't feel like going out. I understand if he wants to just chill instead. He doesn't have to be mean or sarcastic about it though & I don't want him to just fit me in whenever works for him & then stand me up when it doesn't.

 

I told him I had plans & invited him if he wanted to come, & said that whatever he wants to do is fine with me. I am really trying to leave my feelings out of this & just think with my head about the best way to deal with all of this.

[fooled once]

Tonight I keep finding myself asking if I don't deserve better than this.

 

Nothing has really changed in terms of him making a decision except that he got kicked out & therefore the decision is at least temporarily made for him. What else has changed is that he doesn't want [or can't] see me nearly as much as before [which I do understand], & that at times it just feels like the love is gone! He gets angry & even mean to me. Which I don't understand! I am still the exact same person I was but it's like he's different in a bad way when it comes to us.

 

I love him, & in the past I've felt so strongly that he loved me. But now I really don't know. It brings me more pain than happiness. I don't want to leave him when he needs me the most. But this is really making me feel so low.

 

I don't know what to do.

 

Back off. Quit inviting him to spend the night; quit being someone who allows themselves to be disrespected by him or treated poorly by him.

 

I think you really thing that since his wife tossed him out, he was going to turn up at your door and you two would have this great happy relationship.

 

But that can't happen NOW - he is STILL married. He is only out of the house because his wife kicked him out; not because HE CHOSE to go.

 

Again, if he had ever had plans of leaving, this wouldn't be affecting him the way it seems to be. IF he was done with this marriage, he would have had some sort of plan laid out, he would not have needed to be KICKED OUT and he would not be acting this way.

 

So he gets kicked out of the house by his wife on ... Wednesday and he is out to dinner with a "friend" on Thursday? He had 'free time" and instead of being with you, the person he claims to love and all that, he is out to dinner with another woman. I thought he was going to see his kids that night at his wife's house?

 

It is easy to see why there are trust issues. I think that is to be expected. You know he is capable of lying and betraying. You just now are seeing how his wife feels - at a much smaller scale since they have been together 20+ years and have grown up together per say. They are not the same people today as they were when they started dating and started their life together.

 

So perhaps now is the time to step back, not just for him because he needs time right now, but for you. Try to take a breather and give you both some needed time and space. Take care of you first.

 

Definitely agree.

 

You have to stop focusing on HIM. What HE wants, what HE needs, how HE feels, what HE is doing, where HE is at, what HE is thinking, HE HE HE.

 

I wonder if he is blaming you for his current predicament. Even though he was the one married and chose to cheat on his wife; many times the MM will begin to believe it was the OW who pursued him, who 'made him cheat'.

 

I hate to say this; but I don't think he is done with his wife. I also think he will end up feeling as if you are responsible for the lack of respect and communication with his kids. No, it isn't YOUR fault; you did participate in an affair with the kids' dad and they may never like you because of this -- but HE chose to do what he did. I think he is feeling regret - regret for hurting his wife and his kids. Unfortunately, I believe this is what will send him scurrying back to his wife. I say unfortunately, because I believe this will devastate you since your life seems to completely revolve around him -- yes, you state you go out to the gym and with friends, but I am willing to be that you are only physically there; not mentally. You are wrapped up in thinking about him and all that.

 

You are going to have to back off and let HIM deal with his marriage. You have to look out for you; because he is only looking out for himself, his wife and his kids.

 

I just can't get over the fact that he went and had dinner with a female "friend".

[Carrot2000]

I just can't get over the fact that he went and had dinner with a female "friend".

 

It doesn't surprise me; the man is a hot azz mess! When times are good, he's kind and loving, parading 26pb around like he's not a married man. When $hit blows up, he turns mean and becomes distant, treating the very person who was such a prize a few days ago like crap. If he wants to chill, fine. Why can't he chill with you ?

 

Right now, he's being a real dick to 26pb. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[whichwayisup]

He is being a real dick to you and a big jerk. Picking arguments so you'll be mad at him. Many men do this.. It's their way of pushing you away, so you'll get angry enough to say SCREW YOU and end it. Not saying that's exactly what he's doing, but he messed up and NEEDS space.

 

Stop making any type of arrangements with him. Put everything on hold and if you talk, keep it to the phone. Don't see him for a few weeks. Please consider this.. Don't offer for him to stay over, nothing. If/when he asks to see you, tell him it's best for YOU that you two communicate for a while on the phone. Don't do emails or texts..