The dreaded break up talk :-(

[Hopeless Girl]

how old r u?

[D-Lish]

And this is the part that should hurt.

 

Just try not to internalize the breakup and blame yourself. I know it's hard for your mind and your heart to connect on that, but you need to stop re-playing the events in your head.

 

Thanks Panda.

 

I know you and I are similar in a lot of ways.

 

The scariest thing for me is facing being single again. I truly enjoyed having a partner for that short time. I just wanted to make him happy, I just wanted to be that girlfriend to blow away any other gf he'd ever had. Instead, I ended up being the only girl he's ever mustered up the courage to break up with. I mean, this is a guy that's sat idle in bad relationships for months/years- yet he breaks up with me. I can't help but think that I must have been a really terrible gf for him to muster the courage to leave me when he's been incapable of doing that in the past.

 

I know it's a blessing in disguise, but the rejection is taking a toll on me.

[Kamille]

 

I know it's a blessing in disguise, but the rejection is taking a toll on me.

 

((D-Lish))

 

I think we all collectively wish that we could make you skip the part where the heartbreak takes a toll on you. There is absolutely no reason for you to doubt yourself, or feel down about yourself. You're a catch! The feelings you're going through are part of the healing process. It's part of how we heal and draw lessons from our experiences.

 

I love TBF's advice of showing a bit of vulnerability once you're ready to date again. You deserve to be with a man who'll want to take care of you, who'll want to be the Roberto to your Ali (to borrow an analogy from the Bachelorette franchise).

[D-Lish]

((D-Lish))

 

I think we all collectively wish that we could make you skip the part where the heartbreak takes a toll on you. There is absolutely no reason for you to doubt yourself, or feel down about yourself. You're a catch! The feelings you're going through are part of the healing process. It's part of how we heal and draw lessons from our experiences.

 

I love TBF's advice of showing a bit of vulnerability once you're ready to date again. You deserve to be with a man who'll want to take care of you, who'll want to be the Roberto to your Ali (to borrow an analogy from the Bachelorette franchise).

 

Thanks Kam.

 

I'm just back to feeling lost today, and I hate feeling sorry for myself.

It also sucks to know that when he broke up with me, he felt sorry for me. Knowing that has stripped some of my power. I know he is feeling a mix of guilt, sorrow, and relief on his end- but mostly relief.

 

I hate feeling like I am that person that someone feels relief when they don't have to be around me anymore:o

 

It makes me angry that he stuck around while I was pregnant and bolted as soon as I had the mc. It negates how much it meant to me when he was coming over every single night to hold my hand and stroke my hair- because as soon as the ordeal was over, he left me.

 

I feel like the last half of our relationship, he stayed because he felt sorry for me, and I hate knowing that.

[Kamille]

Alternatively, the reasons he stayed and bolted is linked to his own feelings of guilt and inadequacy. I don't think his actions have much to do with pity.

 

I don't think he's having an easy time of it D. He has to deal with the fact that he's incapable of being there for someone he cared for, all because of his own personal hang ups.

 

If he feels any relief, it's the relief of an someone who is free to perpetuate his own dysfunctions because he is no longer accountable to anyone. If he is feeling relief, he still has a long way to go.

[D-Lish]

Alternatively, the reasons he stayed and bolted is linked to his own feelings of guilt and inadequacy. I don't think his actions have much to do with pity.

 

I don't think he's having an easy time of it D. He has to deal with the fact that he's incapable of being there for someone he cared for, all because of his own personal hang ups.

 

If he feels any relief, it's the relief of an someone who is free to perpetuate his own dysfunctions because he is no longer accountable to anyone. If he is feeling relief, he still has a long way to go.

 

I don't know why I didn't see him coming a mile away, I really don't.

 

I know you are right in my heart, and I keep telling myself over and over that the pregnancy only excelerated what would have happened anyway.

 

What a roller coaster from beginning to end this has been!

Edited April 14, 2011 by D-Lish

[Kamille]

I don't know why I didn't see him coming a mile away, I really don't.

 

 

I don't know how you could have seen it coming, or why you think you should have realized this before you did.

 

You did good D. You asked the right questions when they arose. You found out the truth. It sucks that you had to get hurt the way you did because of it. But the hurt doesn't take away from the fact that you actually found out the truth and stood up for yourself.

 

TBF is onto something. By showing vulnerability early on, you'll be better equipped to assess whether your future dates are as caring and emotionally generous as you are.

 

re: roller coaster. No f-ing kidding.

[D-Lish]

I don't know how you could have seen it coming, or why you think you should have realized this before you did.

 

You did good D. You asked the right questions when they arose. You found out the truth. It sucks that you had to get hurt the way you did because of it. But the hurt doesn't take away from the fact that you actually found out the truth and stood up for yourself.

 

TBF is onto something. By showing vulnerability early on, you'll be better equipped to assess whether your future dates are as caring and emotionally generous as you are.

 

re: roller coaster. No f-ing kidding.

 

What would vulnerability look like early on?

Is it something I would say to someone?

 

I'd be open to giving it a try and acting differently if it might help.

 

I'm always laid back, fun loving, and a bit mysterious for the first few months. I let them do the chasing, the asking, the seeking initially. Then at some point I decide I want to let them in, and when I do, things always go terribly wrong.

[Star Gazer]

((((((D))))))

 

I echo Kam's comments.

[Kamille]

What would vulnerability look like early on?

Is it something I would say to someone?

 

I'd be open to giving it a try and acting differently if it might help.

 

I'm always laid back, fun loving, and a bit mysterious for the first few months. I let them do the chasing, the asking, the seeking initially. Then at some point I decide I want to let them in, and when I do, things always go terribly wrong.

 

In my current relationship, I think I showed vulnerabilities early enough. I had decided that any issue I had, I would address directly with bf, instead of coming on here to discuss strategy first. This, originally, caused me some anxiety, as it meant that he could have bailed as soon as I brought up an issue.

 

I don't remember what the first issue I brought up was. (He doesn't either). But doing so ensured that I knew I was dealing with someone who could handle issues and wouldn't bail on me when the going got rough.

[D-Lish]

In my current relationship, I think I showed vulnerabilities early enough. I had decided that any issue I had, I would address directly with bf, instead of coming on here to discuss strategy first. This, originally, caused me some anxiety, as it meant that he could have bailed as soon as I brought up an issue.

 

I don't remember what the first issue I brought up was. (He doesn't either). But doing so ensured that I knew I was dealing with someone who could handle issues and wouldn't bail on me when the going got rough.

 

I remember with C, when we first started dating, he would talk about something an ex did and frame it as "crazy"... And I would think, hmm, that's not crazy, that's every girl I know kinda behaviour. But I'd never address what he said, just make a mental note to NOT engage in that kind of behaviour.

 

I don't think I've ever told a guy early on any of my issues, nor have I admitted any of my vulnerablities, or showed them.

 

Not that I would bust this one out on the first date- but I remember I told the guy that initially brought me to LS 6 years ago that I'd been molested as a kid about 9 months into our relationship. When he broke up with me a month and a half later- he told me how "weird" that was. I remember his exact words "that whole molesting **** you told me was effing weird". Boy did that shame me into keeping my issues to myself! I never told C that- and i don't know if I would have after the response I got from my last ex. I locked that one in the vault after that experience.

 

But I guess if I had have tested the waters early on, I would have figured out early that both of these guys weren't the right men for me.

 

I guess I get so focused early on about portraying someone that is textbook perfect- so I must shock them when I demonstrate a vulnerability for the first time. It does make sense.

[Kamille]

I guess I get so focused early on about portraying someone that is textbook perfect- so I must shock them when I demonstrate a vulnerability for the first time. It does make sense.

 

You might shock them, but more importantly, you'll put a mechanism in place to figure out if they will support you as much as you support them.

 

The first few issues I raised with bf were relationship oriented and minor. I remember once sitting down to discuss how insecure his workaholism made me feel. Yes, if memory serves right, I framed it as making me feel insecure - even though a part of me felt like a guy would run from a girl who expressed insecurity. Doing this was extremely counter-intuitive to me, but it was either discuss it productively, continue to feel insecure and start pulling walls up, or break things off out of the blue. Bf responded really well, we were able to discuss it and he wasn't put off by my "insecurity".

 

Basically, early on in the relationship, we started figuring how to deal with relationship issues, sharpening our teeth on the smaller stuff.

 

It could have "backfired", in the sense that he could have refused to meet me halfway. All this would have meant is that we didn't have what it takes to make it long term.

[D-Lish]

You might shock them, but more importantly, you'll put a mechanism in place to figure out if they will support you as much as you support them.

 

The first few issues I raised with bf were relationship oriented and minor. I remember once sitting down to discuss how insecure his workaholism made me feel. Yes, if memory serves right, I framed it as making me feel insecure - even though a part of me felt like a guy would run from a girl who expressed insecurity. Doing this was extremely counter-intuitive to me, but it was either discuss it productively, continue to feel insecure and start pulling walls up, or break things off out of the blue. Bf responded really well, we were able to discuss it and he wasn't put off by my "insecurity".

 

Basically, early on in the relationship, we started figuring how to deal with relationship issues, sharpening our teeth on the smaller stuff.

 

It could have "backfired", in the sense that he could have refused to meet me halfway. All this would have meant is that we didn't have what it takes to make it long term.

 

Totally makes sense, and of course it always makes sense to start with the smaller issues.

 

I've seriously been at a loss on how to be in a relationship since I split with my exH. He's the lone person that ever truly accepted me for who I am. There was such safety and security when existing in that reality.

[threebyfate]

Good stuff, Kamille!

 

Mesh the perfect woman with the one who's underneath, the one that doesn't come out except under stress. Don't be afraid to show a little insecurity, a little bad behaviour.

 

Tell me if this is way off track but something you've said in the past suddenly hit me. Somehow, you've tied in your prior "bad behaviour" with your ex-husband's cheating. That's why you've been afraid to show vulnerability and insecurities.

 

By internalizing his cheating, it's made you want to be perfect. But Beautiful Girl, no one is perfect and if a guy get's turned off or cheats, considering how well we know the person you are now on LS, man, these are honestly his issues. And cheating is all on the cheater. Who in their right mind would cheat first, with all the emotional drama and unhealthiness involved with that, when they could easily walk away with so little drama? I'm going to stress "right mind" because it's no loss to lose a cheater.

[D-Lish]

Good stuff, Kamille!

 

Mesh the perfect woman with the one who's underneath, the one that doesn't come out except under stress. Don't be afraid to show a little insecurity, a little bad behaviour.

 

Tell me if this is way off track but something you've said in the past suddenly hit me. Somehow, you've tied in your prior "bad behaviour" with your ex-husband's cheating. That's why you've been afraid to show vulnerability and insecurities.

 

By internalizing his cheating, it's made you want to be perfect. But Beautiful Girl, no one is perfect and if a guy get's turned off or cheats, considering how well we know the person you are now on LS, man, these are honestly his issues. And cheating is all on the cheater. Who in their right mind would cheat first, with all the emotional drama and unhealthiness involved with that, when they could easily walk away with so little drama? I'm going to stress "right mind" because it's no loss to lose a cheater.

 

Thanks hot mamma! lol.

 

I probably do equate that cheating experience with my bad behaviour, but it goes deeper than that.

 

I think I just collect baggage along the way and enter every new relationship with a mound of baggage that is both too much for me, and the guy to handle.

 

My biggest barrier however, is that when I meet a guy that makes me feel remotely vulnerable, I envision the heartache of losing them. I just can't ever enjoy anything with someone new without equating that happiness with the potential loss of them in the future.

[threebyfate]

Thanks hot mamma! lol.

 

I probably do equate that cheating experience with my bad behaviour, but it goes deeper than that.

 

I think I just collect baggage along the way and enter every new relationship with a mound of baggage that is both too much for me, and the guy to handle.

 

My biggest barrier however, is that when I meet a guy that makes me feel remotely vulnerable, I envision the heartache of losing them. I just can't ever enjoy anything with someone new without equating that happiness with the potential loss of them in the future.

It's true I'm a mamma and have a tiny bit of a hot temper!

 

So, how do you stop yourself from self-sabotaging? Instead of focusing on potential loss, is there any chance you could focus on patterns of behaviour instead? This way, you can still enjoy the now of the relationship while maintaining something watchful in the back of your mind. It's like having two minds. The silent observer who's collecting data and the here and now person, the one who's enjoying the moment.

 

I'm curious about something. Do you normally see patterns of behaviour in people?

[D-Lish]

It's true I'm a mamma and have a tiny bit of a hot temper!

 

So, how do you stop yourself from self-sabotaging? Instead of focusing on potential loss, is there any chance you could focus on patterns of behaviour instead? This way, you can still enjoy the now of the relationship while maintaining something watchful in the back of your mind. It's like having two minds. The silent observer who's collecting data and the here and now person, the one who's enjoying the moment.

 

I'm curious about something. Do you normally see patterns of behaviour in people?

 

 

I think I actively look for patterns of past behaviour in people in order to find red flags:o

 

If this guy had have been honest with me from day one about his past relationships, I probably would have bailed after a few dates. But he framed himself as a victim in all of his past relationships, and I don't know why, but I believed him.

[threebyfate]

 

I think I actively look for patterns of past behaviour in people in order to find red flags:o

 

If this guy had have been honest with me from day one about his past relationships, I probably would have bailed after a few dates. But he framed himself as a victim in all of his past relationships, and I don't know why, but I believed him.

Good. Now apply that to current. Watch what they do and how they react. Match it to what they say. If the two don't match, there's a problem. As well, most negative actions source from underlying bigger issues. So what are those bigger issues? If a guy's always backing down or agreeing with you, why? He can't always be wrong and he can't always be in agreement. So what's going on?

 

Or, as an example of something I've experienced before, a guy who doesn't prioritize you. Someone who's discourteous to you, taking your time for granted but valuing his time like it's gold. And the eight ball says, he's selfish and inconsiderate! Actually, with this particular guy, he was one gigantic issue, one of those badly messed up complex men!

 

As for the bolded, done that too, wanting to believe because I cared, instead of trusting my instincts that told me something was way, way off.

 

We all make mistakes since our judgment isn't perfect. But if we keep our eyes and ears open, observant of patterns in the back of our minds, it can help us decide when to hit the brakes, in order to discuss what you've observed. His response will help you decide what action to take, whether to continue proceeding forward post discussion or to cut bait. But if the same behaviour manifests post discussion, you know it's time to cut bait.

[elaina]

Hello D,

 

I'm sorry to hear about what happened. I do think he has issues, which isn't your fault. It is sad that he doesn't know what love is and that he doesn't know how to be a great boyfriend.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if relationships came with a guarantee? Like, if you could know 100% if a relationship with a specific person would work out in the long run or not? Problem is, there is no guarantee. There is no way to know for sure what will happen in the future.

 

About his past, it does seem that his mindset and how he thinks is what influenced most his inability to be a good boyfriend and to truly love you. People can change, but some have to really work hard to change.

 

It's not your fault any of this. You didn't make him be like this. He is the one who needs help in changing how he thinks. I believe that you truly did love him and want to have a long and fulfilling relationship with him, and it is his loss that he is running away again from love. He may never know what love is. That's sad.

 

However, I agree with Johan. You do not have to wait 5 years, because there are guys out there who do know what love is, and I do very much love Art Critic's quote about how someday someone will come into your life who will make you see why it never worked with anyone else.

 

For example, the guy you gave me the awesome advice about, he and I are boyfriend/girlfriend now!!! I don't know what will happen in the future. Tonight we talked on the phone and hung up on a shaky note. The reason is we were discussing a serious topic, he was tired from work, and my phone ran out of battery and makes weird noises while it charges, so we said bye, gave kisses, and talk to you later, feeling a little weird. Hopefully everything will be ok, but it is really hard to know what the future holds, and we are still getting to know each other. We've only known each other for a little over 2 months.

 

Anyways, even though we had a little shaky moment tonight and I don't know what the future holds between us, I am glad I am getting to know him, and he has shown me why previous relationships haven't worked out. If we do break up someday for whatever reason (which hopefully won't happen), then I can learn from what happened.

 

Please don't get bitter and depressed. Again, Johan is right. There are guys out there who know how to love and Art Critic is right, someday you will be glad it didn't work out with this dude and will have a wonderful relationship with a man who can love and who does love you.

 

You are very loveable:love::love: and beautiful and intelligent and relationship oriented and very much a high quality lady, and again, it's your ex's loss that he doesn't know what love is.

Edited April 14, 2011 by elaina

[dreamingoftigers]

Oooohh! Watch out for the "victims." By the time a guy is 30 he should be fully owning his part in "what went wrong" in a relationship. Even if a girl cheated on him he should have some idea of what contributed to the breakdown, even if it is just his selection process.

 

Victims find a way to become victims again.

[D-Lish]

 

So what are those bigger issues? If a guy's always backing down or agreeing with you, why? He can't always be wrong and he can't always be in agreement. So what's going on?

 

I think I give off the impression I am not approachable enough to tell the truth to sometimes. I think I am approachable- but I wonder now... I remember when he once lied about going out, he told me later that he was afraid to tell me because he didn't want to hurt me or have me mad at him. That shocked me, but I started realizing after that maybe I do make it hard for people to tell me things. I know I can be reactionary at times.

 

Or, as an example of something I've experienced before, a guy who doesn't prioritize you. Someone who's discourteous to you, taking your time for granted but valuing his time like it's gold. And the eight ball says, he's selfish and inconsiderate! Actually, with this particular guy, he was one gigantic issue, one of those badly messed up complex men!

 

That is what became apparantly in the last month, that I wasn't at all a priority for him:( I didn't want to believe it, but it became apparant right after the mc.

 

We all make mistakes since our judgment isn't perfect. But if we keep our eyes and ears open, observant of patterns in the back of our minds, it can help us decide when to hit the brakes, in order to discuss what you've observed. His response will help you decide what action to take, whether to continue proceeding forward post discussion or to cut bait. But if the same behaviour manifests post discussion, you know it's time to cut bait

 

I also think that I need to be a better communicator. But I do remember telling C so many times what I needed from him when I was going through the pregnancy, and things never changed.

 

The more I think back, the more angry I get. During that whole situation, he was planning his exit strategy, and as soon as the mc happened, he started to distance right away. He bailed, he left at the first sign of trouble- he never truly cared for me at all!

 

I still feel like an idiot that I believed he loved me, and wasn't just staying with me because of the pregnancy- but that's the cold harsh truth.

[threebyfate]

I think I give off the impression I am not approachable enough to tell the truth to sometimes. I think I am approachable- but I wonder now... I remember when he once lied about going out, he told me later that he was afraid to tell me because he didn't want to hurt me or have me mad at him. That shocked me, but I started realizing after that maybe I do make it hard for people to tell me things. I know I can be reactionary at times.

 

That is what became apparantly in the last month, that I wasn't at all a priority for him:( I didn't want to believe it, but it became apparant right after the mc.

 

I also think that I need to be a better communicator. But I do remember telling C so many times what I needed from him when I was going through the pregnancy, and things never changed.

 

The more I think back, the more angry I get. During that whole situation, he was planning his exit strategy, and as soon as the mc happened, he started to distance right away. He bailed, he left at the first sign of trouble- he never truly cared for me at all!

 

I still feel like an idiot that I believed he loved me, and wasn't just staying with me because of the pregnancy- but that's the cold harsh truth.

D, you know in your heart that he did care about you, prior to the pregnancy. That was a given.

 

Recall his past experiences. They should be telling you that he's a weak man. During pregnancy, you stopped being his strength and relied on him for strength he didn't have, albeit he did try to give what he had which wasn't much.

 

Once relationship responsibilities fell on his shoulders, he got scared and emotionally turtled, withdrawing more and more until he was able to cut ties. And even then, it took your strength to confront him about it before he could cut ties.

 

I'd really chalk this one up to an experience with weak men, something you now realize, isn't what you need.

 

((hugs))

[D-Lish]

D, you know in your heart that he did care about you, prior to the pregnancy. That was a given.

 

Recall his past experiences. They should be telling you that he's a weak man. During pregnancy, you stopped being his strength and relied on him for strength he didn't have, albeit he did try to give what he had which wasn't much.

 

Once relationship responsibilities fell on his shoulders, he got scared and emotionally turtled, withdrawing more and more until he was able to cut ties. And even then, it took your strength to confront him about it before he could cut ties.

 

I'd really chalk this one up to an experience with weak men, something you now realize, isn't what you need.

 

((hugs))

 

Thanks:love:

 

I'm trying to embrace some of that anger now to help me through it.

I guess I have to think of it- I would never have bailed on him during a difficult period. The fact that he did, does show how weak he was.

 

Maybe I have to stop putting people on pedestals too. I know when I met him I thought he was too good to be true. I never, ever thought in a million years he would have left after what we went through, let alone soooo soon! I just never percieved him as that kind of person 3 months ago.

[Am4Real]

Thanks:love:

 

I'm trying to embrace some of that anger now to help me through it.

I guess I have to think of it- I would never have bailed on him during a difficult period. The fact that he did, does show how weak he was.

 

Maybe I have to stop putting people on pedestals too. I know when I met him I thought he was too good to be true. I never, ever thought in a million years he would have left after what we went through, let alone soooo soon! I just never percieved him as that kind of person 3 months ago.

 

D,

 

You never answered my question from a page or two ago of posts; did you and he ever talk about the preg prior to the MC? Was the MC the first he heard of the pregnancy?

[D-Lish]

D,

 

You never answered my question from a page or two ago of posts; did you and he ever talk about the preg prior to the MC? Was the MC the first he heard of the pregnancy?

 

Sorry if I missed the question AM4!

 

Yes, he knew as soon as I did. He actually brought me the first pregnancy test and I did the test in front of him.

 

He didn't have much of a reaction to it. I asked him what he felt about it and he said he didn't want kids but he'd support my decision. I think that's the only conversation we really had about it.

 

After that he remained present physically- but we didn't talk.

One day I had a bit of a break down in front of him when I felt he couldn't talk about it and told him I needed him to be more communicative, but it never changed, so I just stopped asking. I guess it's then that I became more needy and bitchy.