What to expect from a partner who insists on going out freely w/o me

[whichwayisup]

I just wonder what the reaction would be if the genders were reversed. I always keep that in mind.

 

IF this was a husband posting about his wife, my response would be the same.

 

It just isn't right to have a spouse running around at all hours of the night, unreachable and ignoring calls, saying they'll be home soon and then come home late or not at all. Part of getting married and having responsibility of a family is, you give up certain things... Partying it up and staying out all night once or twice a week when you have little kids is just not right.

 

Why doesn't this guy want to be home with his wife and young children?

 

Again Woggle, this isn't a male/female war so please don't make her situation into one.

[LittleTiger]

I just wonder what the reaction would be if the genders were reversed. I always keep that in mind.

 

Woggle, you read these boards daily and frequently comment on what you believe are patterns of behaviours in women (and sometimes men) based on what you read. You often post about how depressing you find it to read about these behaviours. Most regulars here know that you've had a difficult past and some of your views on women are understandable given the circumstances......... but you're now happily married to a wonderful women who treats you well and yet you still use posts on LS as evidence of the 'badness' of women. Is that fair to say?

 

So tell me, how often have you read on LS a post from a man who's wife behaves in the way that this woman's husband is behaving?

 

How many married women with families do you read about on here who ring their husband up 5 minutes before they're due home (or even an hour after they should already be home) to say they're going out with the girls and will back at 8.00pm - so he has to take care of the kids (entertain them, feed them, put them to bed), tidy up the house and make dinner for her while she's out living it up and drinking with her pals?

 

How many times do you hear married men complaining that these women stay out much later than they originally said, don't answer their phone when he tries to ring and sometimes don't even bother to come home at all? And he has no idea where she has been or with whom?

 

How often do you read posts from married men with children whose wives come home late and when he's upset that they never spend time together and she's disregarding his feelings, loses complete control, flies into a rage and says it's her right to do what she wants, whenever she wants without having to consult him?

 

My guess is you've never read such a thing on LS, or anywhere else. Maybe it could happen but I've never heard of it. This pattern of behaviours is very much a 'male' thing. Yes, women have their own patterns too, but this is definitely not one of them. So I don't really understand how or why you would want to make this thread into another gender war.

 

The thread is about how one man is treating his wife and children - it's not about anybody else. You've pretty much agreed that his behaviour is not acceptable so, just for once, please support the injured party instead of siding with the man, just because he's male.

[Woggle]

You are right that I shouldn't bring my own baggage into it and I admit he is not dealing with it in a healthy manner. That being said I just don't see how a grown man having some time with his friends is abusive. People here are saying that he should have a curfew as if he was a teenager. I admit he is handling it wrong but like I said in another thread men tend to hate authority and when they feel a wife is nagging them it just sounds like another authority figure trying to control them.

[Woman In Blue]

I admit he is handling it wrong but like I said in another thread men tend to hate authority and when they feel a wife is nagging them it just sounds like another authority figure trying to control them.

There's a reason the guy's been married 4 times - and I highly doubt it's because he's been widowed THREE times. What a jackass.

 

Any 50 year old man whose stupid enough to start having babies at that age needs to grow the hell up and realize that it's NOT all about HIM anymore. He's forfeited his freedom to be able to act like an asshat - and at 50 years old, he should KNOW better than to be acting like an asshat, anyway.

 

His loser ass should have been kicked to the curb IMMEDIATELY the FIRST time he didn't come home at all. Maybe lucky wife #5 will be the charm.

[xxoo]

I admit he is handling it wrong but like I said in another thread men tend to hate authority and when they feel a wife is nagging them it just sounds like another authority figure trying to control them.

 

You are right about this.

 

From the woman's pov, she hates that he can come and go as he pleases, knowing that she will be there to care for the children they made together, while she is stuck home with the kids because she can't count on HIM being home to give her a break. She wants him to go out with friends sometimes, but she hates that he doesn't come home when he says he will (and she is counting the minutes, because the babies are exhausting!), and she HATES that he won't answer his phone when she calls.

 

What do you suggest she do? I'm honestly asking for a man's advice to this woman--because this scenario is one I've heard again and again, both IRL and online.

 

I'll add my advice for her:

 

Don't wait for him to "give" you time. Put it on the calendar, and make him aware of your plans to go out, and that he will need to be home that night.

 

Find a reliable babysitter, and budget some money for random babysitting (cheaper than divorce). Use the babysitter liberally for the breaks you need. If he complains about the cost, have a calm discussion about why you need the babysitter so much.

 

In answer to the question in your title (what you can expect from him)....not much, I'm afraid. He is 50 years old, married 4x, and is STILL acting this way. He is unlikely to change.

 

Control what you can--you. Make changes so that you get the breaks you need. Don't expect much from him.

[giotto]

Maybe some here won't like this... but I'm going to say it anyway...

 

I believe many men have kids to go along with the wife's pestering demands (biological clock) and for wanting of a quite life... then they realize that they actually didn't really want any, because it's a bloody hard job on top of their job - and the sex disappears - and they feel doubly cheated... and then they grow resentful and the whole relationship collapses. And no, it's NOT my story... ;-)

[xxoo]

Maybe some here won't like this... but I'm going to say it anyway...

 

I believe many men have kids to go along with the wife's pestering demands (biological clock) and for wanting of a quite life... then they realize that they actually didn't really want any, because it's a bloody hard job on top of their job - and the sex disappears - and they feel doubly cheated... and then they grow resentful and the whole relationship collapses. And no, it's NOT my story... ;-)

 

That makes a lot of sense....and is very sad, if it is true

 

Still, it sounds like a younger man's error to me. You'd think that, by 50, he would have it figured out, and wouldn't have had kids if he didn't want them. How sad for the kids

[giotto]

T You'd think that, by 50, he would have it figured out, and wouldn't have had kids if he didn't want them. How sad for the kids

 

true... errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum...

[LittleTiger]

Control what you can--you. Make changes so that you get the breaks you need. Don't expect much from him.

 

This is the crux of the whole problem - control! She has none. Very sadly, not even over herself - because he is taking control of what she can and can't do by behaving the way he does. She has no freedom because he has it all. He is currently dictating that she will spend every evening at home (we don't know about the daytime), that time alone with him is at his convenience, that she can't talk to him on the phone unless he agrees to it (obviously he's not interested if there's an emergency with one of the children!), that she can't question where he's been or or who with, that he can let his anger 'get away with him' because 'he's a man' and 'a man can go out as late as he wants to'.

 

Even without all the other apalling behaviours and the three previous broken marriages, this one comment he made is a huge red flag and indicates his belief about the rights of men and women. He didn't say 'I can go out as late as I want to', he said 'A man can.......'! There's a big difference.

 

What you suggest xxoo is a really good way forward but I would be willing to bet that she'll get no cooperation from him. His behaviour says that he doesn't care what she thinks or feels. He believes his rights are more important than hers. She can put her night out on the calendar, and you can be almost certain that's the night he won't come home at all.

 

There's a good reason why this is his fourth marriage - he thinks women are beneath him so he treats them like dirt!

[zakfar]

I had no intention to write on this thread, as I thought I was done with whatever that could help blooming. However, with the later posts, I realize that everyone is taking the problem on 'Gender Biased'. I want to mention here a few things here. This is for everyone, either male, or a female; either successful in their personal relationship, or failure.

 

A relationship is happy and healthy if the couple has 'Mutual Understanding'. Each society has it's own social laws, which push both of them to build a system based on a set of rules. Standards are based on how usual 'Males' and 'Females' think, believe, like, and dislike in that society. Nevertheless, these laws actually divert you away from building that particular 'Mutual understanding'. A relationship should be handled based on your priorities, and you partners, and not based on 'This is right' and 'This is not right', 'This is fair' and 'This is not Fair', and 'This is your right', and 'He/she has no right to do this/that'.

 

Why should someone go for things that others recommend, when they don't have much priorities for those themselves. Almost everyone who has been in relationships know how male/female mind works. In addition, everyone knows that no two people are same. In social science, you don't handle the problems with a set of 'Rules'. You find out tools based on the scenario, mentalities, and environment (society and the system of the relationship). Notice that the tools you choose are entirely based on your 'Personal Relationship'.

 

When they start a relationship, they quickly learn the priorities for their partners. They can learn how to convince their partners. There is nothing bad in using an intelligent tool to bring that 'Mutual Understanding' between a relationship. You should not 'Force' someone by pushing it. But still, the happiness of both the partners is dependent on both of them. If one of them is not serious, then both of them lose the game. That's what makes a relationship a 'Partnership' - 'A Team work'.

 

A common misconception in the society is that Every man wants to Dominate the house. This is misconception in the society since thousands of years, hence consider the so called 'Traditional Society' a 'Male Dominated Society'. Think about your past. Think about your parents, your grandmothers, and any old couples. Don't you see that many of those females were the 'Head' of their households? Although acting submissively, they made many of the decisions in their houses using some appropriate tools. Don't forget that 'Tears' had also been used to divert some of the decisions, and is still being used widely by females in many systems.

 

I'm not talking about what kind of system a house should have. In fact, I'm entirely against 'Suggesting' how the system should be in the house. What I'm saying is that we should come out and start watching the world more clearly. Social laws are good, and they help us to develop the house. However, we should not take them so seriously that we forget ourselves what are our own 'Priorities'.

 

'You should not submit yourself', 'You are too afraid of him/her', 'He/she has no right to do this', and the points like that, which are normally told to you are the points that divert your attention from your personal requirements for happiness. It is a misconception that everyone wants to 'Rule'. It is not hidden from anyone that lot of people enjoy 'Submission' to their partners. This includes both males and females. They prefer their partners to make the decisions.

 

When you choose a partner, your relationship should be based on your personal priorities. Once you are done with the initial process, the best thing is to have open discussion with your partner. Obviously you can't share everything, just right away. 'Mutual Understanding' does not mean that you should share everything with your partner. Some people have high priorities for something. If they learn about something in you that they hate, even if they want to accept the 'Reality' and 'Compromise', they can't truly go for that. It causes them high distress. However, with time, you can have better understanding. You can share everything with your partner, but with time. More you are open to each other, more you are close to each other, and more you are happy.

 

Nature has built the family system not just 'Reproduction'. There is lot more to that. A female has different perspective to look at the things around, while the males have different. Why should a female try to 'Change' a man based or her requirements? And why should a man should 'Change' her completely based on his priorities? But yes, when a relationship start, both of them should remember that they gonna need to sacrifice a lot. Both of them will need to compromise on some stages, for the sake of that 'Mutual Understanding' and their healthy relationship.

 

Just try to look at this from this perspective. A relationship in which the couple share everything. They don't lie to each other. Every big decision they make is after their discussion. They both give other higher priority than themselves. They both want to keep other happy. This is considered an ideal relationship. But wait, this system can also have 'Head', either of them, who makes the final decision, based on all the points mentioned above. Under the name of 'Equal Rights', we have actually forgotten what's actually a 'Right'. If someone wants to submit his/her powers and right to make the final decision consensually, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, this is the key to success.

 

Forcing someone to accept your decision is bad. In fact, I consider them 'Abuse' even if that does not involve anything 'Physical'. Discussion is what is required. One thing that a lot of people take wrong, they have 'Comments', 'Arguments' and 'Fights', and they consider them 'Discussion'. Don't forget that no one is open to listen during such instances. That's indeed not a discussion.

 

For discussing something, you need to choose the right time. Both of you should be open to listen. And both of you should be ready to think positively. At that time, if you share your personal thoughts, and share your requirements, your partner can think about them. This is exactly what I mentioned in my first post. When you dislike something in your partner, share it in the cool discussions, and not in fights. Same thing said in an argument can leave a different impact than if that was told when the environment was cool. Go for it. No one is stopping you to tell your partners from sharing your thoughts. But your intention should be to improve your relationship... all based on the priorities of 'Both of you', and not just you.

 

No man likes a 'Nagging' wife, and no wife likes a husband who treats her like a 'Trash'. Wrong! Some people like it! I can prove it. But yes, even those people won't like it if things are handled outside their personal priorities. Well, this is an entirely different discussion, and I don't want to divert the topic. The summary is, you should be sincere first, before you expect something from your partner. Try to find out the requirements of both of you, discuss them, analyze them, and find out the solutions based on them. You can indeed make a system that can keep both of you happy. Though you can never build a system if you want things 'Way too differently' from your partner. So the idea goes back to the first point. You should find out the partner who can have the 'Inversely similar' desires of yours. As it is something that can bring perfect 'Mutual Understanding' between you - a key to the success of a relationship.

 

I know I have initiated a long discussion here. Better to talk about that in a different thread, as this one should be particularly stuck with Blooming's problem with her husband.

 

Zakfar.

[LittleTiger]

Maybe some here won't like this... but I'm going to say it anyway...

 

I believe many men have kids to go along with the wife's pestering demands (biological clock) and for wanting of a quite life... then they realize that they actually didn't really want any, because it's a bloody hard job on top of their job - and the sex disappears - and they feel doubly cheated... and then they grow resentful and the whole relationship collapses. And no, it's NOT my story... ;-)

 

You could certainly be right in some cases giotto, which is rather tragic in my opinion, but then both parents usually find the arrival of children to be an enormous upheaval which can create tremendous stress. It's still not an excuse for either spouse to behave in the way this man is behaving.

 

There are many, many possible scenarios and explanations for the situation the OP is in. We don't even know if her husband already has children to any of his previous wives. He might have three other families. He might have met each of his new wives by having affairs whilst still married to the previous one (no offence OP, just a passing thought).

 

Whatever actually led to where they are now in their relationship there is absolutely no excuse for his current behaviour. He's 50 years old for heaven's sake! Sometimes life gets difficult, boring, mundane, stressful etc and we just have to suck it up and get on with it.

 

It wouldn't suprise me if she is a stay at home mom without her own source of income, which makes things ten times worse. I would strongly suggest she start giving him some serious ultimatums and next time, if he oversteps the mark, she stays in the car and drives away! It seems to me that the only thing she still has control over in this relationship is whether to stay or leave because I don't believe he's going to budge one tenth of an inch in any direction.

[DaisyLeigh]

Maybe some here won't like this... but I'm going to say it anyway...

 

I believe many men have kids to go along with the wife's pestering demands (biological clock) and for wanting of a quite life... then they realize that they actually didn't really want any, because it's a bloody hard job on top of their job - and the sex disappears - and they feel doubly cheated... and then they grow resentful and the whole relationship collapses. And no, it's NOT my story... ;-)

 

 

Well...tough ****! If you are old enough to screw, you are old enough to know what you want and don't want and certainly old enough to get a damn vasectomy if you don't want kids. But no...instead, act like a ****ing toddler and shirk your responsibilities.

 

(that was not directed at you, Giotto) I just get so tired of reading about these poor wittle picked on men who got hoodwinked by a magic vagina, into having brats that they never wanted.

[giotto]

Well...tough ****! If you are old enough to screw, you are old enough to know what you want and don't want and certainly old enough to get a damn vasectomy if you don't want kids. But no...instead, act like a ****ing toddler and shirk your responsibilities.

 

(that was not directed at you, Giotto) I just get so tired of reading about these poor wittle picked on men who got hoodwinked by a magic vagina, into having brats that they never wanted.

 

agree... but I know a few men who are entirely disenchanted with fatherhood... actually, I'll correct myself... they love being a father - despite the extra work - but they hate losing their primary status and their lover...

[DaisyLeigh]

agree... but I know a few men who are entirely disenchanted with fatherhood... actually, I'll correct myself... they love being a father - despite the extra work - but they hate losing their primary status and their lover...

 

 

Well then, those men need to grow the hell up. Seriously. You are not going to be number one at all times after kids.

 

Now, that being said, I also hate when some women put their husbands on a permanent backseat to the kids. Couples need to take care of their relationship.

[xxoo]

agree... but I know a few men who are entirely disenchanted with fatherhood... actually, I'll correct myself... they love being a father - despite the extra work - but they hate losing their primary status and their lover...

 

I'm sure there are women who screw up the balance all on their own...

 

But there are also men who majorly screw up the first year, jealous of a needy infant who is barely a separate person from mommy (in the eyes of both mother and child). It's a year. If the husband handles it well, it will increase the chances that he'll naturally shift into primary status when babyhood has passed. (and that is how the next baby is conceived! lol)

[Woggle]

I'm sure there are women who screw up the balance all on their own...

 

But there are also men who majorly screw up the first year, jealous of a needy infant who is barely a separate person from mommy (in the eyes of both mother and child). It's a year. If the husband handles it well, it will increase the chances that he'll naturally shift into primary status when babyhood has passed. (and that is how the next baby is conceived! lol)

 

Also if a man is fully supportive during the rough years when the baby first arrives most women will remember that and reward him.

 

I don't think this guy is handling this well but I just don't think that a person has to give up their friends and social life outside of the relationship just because they are married. This isn't good for men or women. I have friends who don't even kids with their women and they have to get screamed at whenever we hang out. I hate seeing this happen to guys.

[xxoo]

Also if a man is fully supportive during the rough years when the baby first arrives most women will remember that and reward him. .

 

Oh, yeah. Once my babies started sleeping a bit better, and needing me less, I was very motivated to show my H how much I appreciated his support and patience

 

New dads should take note

[giotto]

Oh, yeah. Once my babies started sleeping a bit better, and needing me less, I was very motivated to show my H how much I appreciated his support and patience

 

New dads should take note

 

your husband is lucky... I think I did pretty well in the supporting role (with all of our 4 children), but I think my wife actually forgot I was there... Well, fair enough, she was tired and needed sleeping... shame the sleeping carried on for a few years after that...

[Spoohorgo]

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