Was there abuse in our relationship?

[PelicanPete]

We've been broken up for a few months now and she accused me of being abusive and it's the only thing that's still bothering me. I grew up with my parents being in an emotionally abusive relationship so I tried my hardest to avoid being like that with my ex, she knew that so I don't know if she just said that to hurt me or if it's the truth.

 

First off I never hurt her physically, I never physically intimidated her or even raised my voice towards her ever. I never pressured her into anything sexually, or forced her when she didn't want to. So in other words, there was no physical abuse.

 

The only possible abuse was psychological. I'm a bit of a straight edge, I don't drink, smoke, or even have caffeine. I'm very physically fit and don't eat any junk food or dairy. I also don't have much of a social life and can be a bit of a hermit. Through out our whole relationship she always felt I was too good for her, and she was always paranoid of me talking to other girls. A lot of girls flirted with me through our relationship, but I never led them on and rejected them right away. She was afraid of me leaving her when that was never the case, and there was not even a reason for her to think like that. On the other hand, she cheated on me during our relationship and apparently felt obligated to go out with him afterward because "thats who she deserves". A week later she came crawling back saying it was more sexual harassment, and I was naive and believed her. She used that as a way of saying that I was emotionally abusive to her because she believed I couldn't let go of the past.

 

I know my lifestyle influenced and changed her behavior, I knew it was happening while we were together but it seemed all positive so I didn't think much of it. The only real things I asked her to stop doing was to stop swearing all the time, and to please not drink so much coffee, because she was having 4-5 cups a day and she was having trouble sleeping. I tried at one point to get her to stop drinking coffee completely, but I stopped pressuring her realizing that was wrong. Even though I told her drinking coffee was ok, she said she still felt pressured not to.

 

I run 3-5 times a week, so she wanted to try running with me. Of course we both had different levels of fitness so it was hard running with her. Being a foot taller then her didn't help. I never made it a competition and I would keep it to her pace, but she said she never felt good enough around me. I was always very supportive of her and would give her a lot of praise for exercising, because I know when your first starting out its rough. She eventually quit exercising because of me apparently.

 

Because I don't have a lot of friends or go out that much, she started mirroring that. I never told her she couldn't go hang out with friends, but she apparently felt like she couldn't because I would get annoyed with her.

The only times I would get annoyed is when we already had plans to meet up, and she would send me a text 10 minutes late and say she was gonna hang out with friends instead. I also didn't have a facebook for the longest time because I find it kind of creepy. I would say I didn't like facebook, so when she got one and would check it at my house I would always tease her about it. I was just being silly and I thought I made that obvious after telling her I was kidding and the whole tone of voice id use, but she took it personally.

 

I would get possessive if other men were clearly flirting with her, and she was leading them on. I would be in the conversation as well, and it was clear obvious flirting. They would act like I didn't exist and it bothered me. She would say they weren't but for me being a guy it was obvious. I would always look like the ******* when id usher her away and she would still continue to talk to them when I wasn't around. I would talk to her about it and she would just use the excuse that they were friends and I was just paranoid. The one guy I let her stay "friends" with she left me for, it was the only real friend of hers I met and I trusted them as friends. The guy was a bit of a loser and pretty unattractive, I saw signs of it coming but I was gonna let her reject a guy for once instead of me rejecting for her.

 

The last two months of our relationship I know I wasn't at my best. I was neglecting her and not paying enough attention to her as I usually was. She wanted me to be more romantic and do more romantic things like I usually did, but it was a very stressful and emotional time in my life and I just didn't have the energy to focus on our relationship with all the crap that was happening. She would complain about how I wasn't spending enough time with her and that I was ignoring her, and it seems she'd try to cause problems by making big deals out of nothing. She knew what was going on in my life and I was hoping she would be there and understand. I was going to make up for it when we were going to spend christmas vacation with her family, but she left me when we got to her parents house.

 

She said that I always made her feel dumb, when that was my last intention. She would come to me for advice about everything, and I would listen and give my opinion and suggestions on how to make things better. A lot of the things weren't exactly quick fixes, so the advice I would give her would take consistency and time. I was careful not to sound like a know it all or condescending. She would hardly ever use my advice, and she would continue to complain and whine about the problems in her life. This would really annoy me after awhile, and I started to become less patient with her and her problems. She was taking a biology class one time, and I happen to be good at biology and offered her my help whenever she needed it. Despite her doing very poorly in the class, she only asked for my help once to help her study for a test. This was at midnight and the test was in the morning, and it was worth 30% of her mark. I still helped her and she ended up passing the test, but failed the course. It made me feel pretty unappreciated.

 

After we broke up, I didn't know about NC or anything so I tried LC. She would tell me about how our relationship was a farce and it was childish and a waste of her time only preparing her for her new relationship. This was a week after the break up and it really hurt, so I apologized for the mistakes I made and went NC. Two weeks later she was spamming my emails with links to emotional abuse websites and saying that I needed therapy or help, and that she feels it would be important if we stayed friends through this and that she could help me. I just basically told her goodbye have a nice life and haven't talked to her since. She tried to get back in touch with me, telling me through my friends that she needs this or that back and asking about me, but it really bothers me still that she said I was abusive.

 

I don't think I was abusive but I could be wrong. I would rather know and work on it then ignore it and remain the same. Personally it feels more like my ex was, but I could use an unbiast opinion.

[betterdeal]

It sounds like it was a difficult relationship. Most commonly (and it appears to be the case here) what may be perceived as emotional abuse by one or other party is a failure in communication and a blurring of boundaries between where I end and you begin. The good news is that we can learn better ways to communicate and honour those boundaries.

 

Learning to say what you feel, what makes you feel like that, and what you want, in a clear and precise way can help us to do that.

 

Take, for example, her saying she feels it's important that you stay friends. How does that make you feel, why does it make you feel that way, and what would you want to happen next?

 

I feel X because Y and I'd like you to Z

 

I feel uncomfortable being friends right now because I have a lot of feelings I need to process, so I'd like you to respect that.

 

I don't like you flirting with other guys, especially in front of me. I feel demeaned and disrespected when you do that. I'd like you to stop flirting.

 

I'd like you to stop drinking so much caffeine because it keeps you awake at night and I feel a bit annoyed that my sleep is disturbed as a result.

 

Do you see how each of these expresses your feelings and desires whilst respecting the boundary between you and her?

Edited April 9, 2011 by betterdeal

[kooki]

Pelican Pete,

 

To me what you are describing does not sound like emotional abuse, albeit it sounds to me like your ex is slightly possessive and controlling.

 

The fact that you are questioning this online and that you are wondering about YOUR actions speaks a lot ABOUT YOU. You are reflecting on your own actions, and abusers RARELY do that. My ex (a man) rarely wanted to reflect on the fact that he was abusing me.

 

So, I think in my opinion, she has issues. There are some actions on her part that are not OK, that speak of impatience and manipulation. If she is flirting with other guys in front of you even when you have asked her to stop is not nice. Also, she sounds INSECURE to me.

 

She also needs to be specific with you -what constitutes emotional abuse on her part and she needs to give you EXAMPLES!

 

I gave my ex examples that were abusive: invasion of privacy (journals, cell phone, messages, internet history - controlling behavior), googling my exes (possessive), distrust (accusations of me cheating on him, lying), gaslighting (trying to question my perception of reality, twisting facts, interrogation), demeaning comments (very subtle at first), pressure to do stuff I wasn't comfortable sexually, humiliation in public (verbal abuse), making jokes which were vulgar, and a couple of physical minor assaults to boot. And then, when I tried to break up with him, HORRIBLE name-calling, telling me that I would never find love, that he's the only one that will put up with me, etc..

 

Emotional abuse is very subtle at times, and at other times is very overt. Depends, but it should be consistent, in other words, the incidents aren't isolated. You can SEE A PATTERN of abusive behavior forming. When it's a PATTERN, then you know the person is abusive. Also, usually, you see abuse escalating into physical abuse (that's what happened to me, although I was never injured from my ex's violent tendencies, because he was "playing" with me.)

 

So, in your case, I agree with BetterDeal that it could be communication problems, but IF YOU LOVE your ex, you need to ask her, be open with her to give you EXAMPLES from her point of view of what was abusive. Write them down, get her to write them down for you in a letter, SPECIFICS! You can't just blame someone that they were abusive without giving details on how they hurt you.

 

Reflecting on potentially abusive behavior on your part (if it exists, that is) IS AMAZING, and if you do possess any kind of abusive behavior, you can work on changing those patterns so that you can find true, lasting, gentle, kind love!

 

But the fact that you are asking on this board says that you have a conscience, you feel guilt, and most abusers don't have a conscience, they lack EMPATHY, and most importantly, they think NOTHING IS WRONG with their behavior.

 

I wish my ex would ask on a forum like this if he was being abusive.

 

Good luck to you.

[dreamingoftigers]

It doesn't sound like emotional abuse as much as it sounds like someone who has low self-esteem and selfishness pressing their issues onto you (of course if everything you say is accurate.)

 

It also sounds like you can do much better.

 

One thing though, often when women come for advice they are often just looking for empathy.

[LittleTiger]

Most abusers don't realise they are being abusive, or refuse to acknowledge it when they suspect that they might be.

 

It's impossible to say from your post whether you abused her or not.

 

Abuse is about control, intimidation or an imbalance of power. It's very, very rare that a woman takes this role in a relationship, but it is possible. I can't ask you to tell us who had the power in your relationship because if you did abuse her you will say she did. It doesn't sound as though she was trying to control you and she obviously didn't intimidate you, so ask yourself, honestly, who had the most power?

 

Emotional or psychological abuse is a difficult thing to define because only the person being abused usually knows that it's happening.

 

If she was worried about you getting annoyed when she went out with friends then it's possible you were abusing her. If you were possessive in any way, then it's possible you were abusing her. If she took your 'teasing', 'being silly' tone in a way other than you say you intended it, it's possible you were abusing her. If you made her feel dumb, it's possible you were abusing her.

 

Did you treat her differently in public than when you were alone together? Honestly? If you did, it's likely that you were abusing her.

 

It's unlikely she was abusing you, but she may well be emotionally disturbed. The thing is, if you were abusing her, that 'disturbed' state could have been brought on by the abuse.

 

If you're really concerned, you could enquire about, or even enroll on a programme for abusive men - unless your next partner accuses you of the same thing, that's probably the only way you can find out for sure.

 

On the plus side, the fact that you are concerned about it is a good sign, although, contrary to what kooki says, abusers do reflect on their own behaviour. Unfortunately, they usually draw the conclusion that their partner is the one who's being abusive.

 

I'm certainly not saying you're an abuser - it's just not possible to tell from a post on a internet forum, but if you suspect you might be, you would be well advised to look into further and get help if you decide your ex might be right.

[kooki]

I would add one thing though, abusers are very good at minimizing their abusive behavior, if not denying it outright. That's what my ex would do. He would say things like "you're making too big of a deal", and (when I broke up with him) "I hope you meet men that will show you what REAL abuse is like". Because he wasn't a batterer, he felt his behavior was somehow OK. He would also say things like, "everybody is emotionally abusive". (I am quoting him verbatim because I saved my text messages so I don't forget...)

 

So, if you have thoughts like these above, then you need to take a serious look at your behavior. But the fact that you are inquiring about your behavior is a REALLY good sign. I don't think an abuser would do that, but again, I can't say in your case, you would need to do some research to figure out if you're being abusive.

 

True, as LittleTiger said, we can't get a sense of it, not from your posting above.

 

A good book to read, (I emailed the link to my ex who laughed in my face) is:

 

Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.

 

I suggest if you REALLY care for this girl, then read this book, you may be able to see if your actions are abusive. Not sure. Look deep down within yourself and admit anything you may be in denial about. This is hard to do, but well worth it.

 

Again, it could be that she is the abusive one, I don't know.

 

If I were you, I would do more research, maybe talk to a pro about it. Get it sorted out. Yes, LittleTiger is right, what about your exes? Did they ever mention you were abusive? Did they ever say to you you don't know how to treat a woman?

 

History is a big sign and good to look at.

[PelicanPete]

Hey thanks for all the responses everyone, I really appreciate it.

 

She has been my only girlfriend, and we were together for a few years. I felt like a lot of it was miscommunication like betterdeal mentioned. I did really love her, but she treated me pretty poorly during and after the breakup, so i'm not willing to get back in touch with her because of that. I know you can't really judge whether I was abusive from my description and that there are always two sides to a story, but im doing my best to be honest with myself and try to be empathetic towards how she might have felt.

 

As for who wore the pants in the relationship, im not too sure. I can't really answer for her, but it felt like I would at default, she depended a lot on me. Her brother even mentioned how she looked up to me and admired me while we were dating. Sometimes she would take the initiative, but I never thought of it or treated it as a bad thing. I never purposefully tried to manipulate or intimidate her because I loved her, that's why I was upset when she accused me of being abusive.

 

I did treat her a bit differently in public though. I wasn't as affectionate towards her. I just didn't want to make things awkward for the person we were hanging out with and make them feel like the third wheel. I talked to her about it and she understood, it was also a case of me just being shy. I would still show her off though and introduce her to all my friends and family if that's what you mean. I was much more affectionate and sweet talking her when it was just the two of us.

 

I wanted to get more of an idea outside of my own head. I'm very introspective so I pretty much picked our relationship apart. I've been working on improving myself and have been accepting of the mistakes I know I did wrong, what dreamingoftigers mentioned being one of them haha, and also communicating often what i'm feeling rather than assuming we're on the same page, because honestly when she was breaking up with me it all just seemed like a misunderstanding. It was too late at that point however, she was already ready to be with the other guy.

 

I just look at it as two possibilities. She is accusing me of being abusive to help justify her reason for leaving me for this other guy and clear her guilt, or she was actually concerned about me and felt I really needed help. But I guess ill never know. She blamed everything bad in our relationship on me at least, and wrote me several emails about everything I did wrong. Most of it was her comparing her 3 week old honeymoon stage relationship to our long term one, and the other things were things I already was aware of and apologized for. I apologized again, asked her to please leave me alone and she started spamming me with abusive relationship websites. It bothers me that she called me abusive, but it also bothers me that she like everything is my fault and that our relationship was horrible.

 

Thanks again guys, more opinions and responses are welcome.

[dreamingoftigers]

Brizendine (spelling?) author of The Female Brain said that she has a sticky note up for her husband so when she comes home at the end of the day and she starts griping he says to her "honey, I know how you feel."

 

Apparently the fact that he says that does wonders for her even though she knows it is on a sticky note.

[betterdeal]

I disagree with kooki and littletiger: abuse (in an adult romantic relationship) is more often than not a two-way process i.e. both people are abusive, and I hazard a guess that was the case in your relationship. As is said, abusers tend to minimize the impact of their behaviour, and women are no exception to this. We all have good reasons for our behaviour, after all.

 

Roles frequently swap, with the two people playing the role of abuser, victim or rescuer at different times and in different situations. In your case, your ex appears to have triangled in a third person (the other guy) as her rescuer. I wouldn't be surprised if in a month she's wanting your company again and thinks of him as the abuser, and you the rescuer, whilst she's being emotionally unfaithful and offloading her problems (abusive), whilst at the same time is trying to help you recover (rescuing), maybe he kicks her out and you move her stuff for her (rescuer) but then you feel put upon (victim) and become angry at this imposition and act this anger out (abuser) and so and so on. It never ends.

 

It soon becomes apparent that these terms (abuser, rescuer, victim) are not helpful and that everyone involved can be called each of these. We keep going around and around in circles. Dysfunctional, or maladaptive behaviour and thought patterns are less loaded terms and target the source of conflict, not the people experiencing them.

 

I recommend reading "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Bervely Engel, which is probably the most balance and helpful piece I have read on the subject, by an author who's spent a lot of time in this field and openly discusses how her views have matured over time. It's a sad irony that her earlier work, The Emotionally Abused Woman has influenced so much thinking on the subject and (the title says it all) completely ignores the emotionally abused man, as though we are immune to emotional abuse and we just need to control our anger - the only emotion men apparently have if you were to take the majority of relationship advice out there at face value.

 

I've used hypnotherapy, CBT, and Jungian analysis with a therapist in the past year and benefited loads. Assertive training books were also very useful. I'm currently reading "Too nice for you own good" which is also a good read.

 

As it says in my signature, it's okay to ask for help. I don't think your ex is the right person to give it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by betterdeal

[dreamingoftigers]

True that it is often a 2 way street and cyclic.

[LittleTiger]

I completely disagree with the 'it takes two' theory of abusive relationships and, rather than TJ here, I've started a new thread on the subject.

[dreamingoftigers]

True that it is often a 2 way street and cyclic.

10 characters

[kooki]

I totally AGREE with Little Tiger. I also completely disagree it's a two-way street of abuse. Sorry. That's blaming "the victim". Perhaps there are relationships out there where both partners are abusive with each other (like the Eminem/Rihanna video suggests, I Like the Way You Lie), but most often, I don't think it's the case, although I'm not an expert on abuse, I've just done quite a bit of reading on it. That's my humble opinion. I could be wrong.

 

Also, stats here in Canada show that abuse tends to be gendered...approx. 80 % of abused people are women, the remaining are men. That's because abuse is sometimes passed on generation to generation. And some men are conditioned and socialized to believe that women should be submissive to men because that's how their fathers treated their mothers. However, this does not take into account mental illness and personality disorders, which contributes to the abusiveness of a person.

 

From the research I have done myself, abusers seem to zero in on "victims" they can manipulate and abuse, because for them, it's a pattern of behavior (power and control). So, they zero in subconsciously or consciously, on people with whom they will "get away with" abusing and manipulating. Some experts say that abusers know what they are doing, but they do it anyway because for them, it's a way of relating to someone. They need to be in control, and they have privileges which they don't want to give up, hence why they don't want to change.

 

I have read Beverly Engel, and her books are great.

 

Again, there are so many exceptions, and each case is individual.

 

Thanks

[betterdeal]

So, kooki, given your complete disagreement with the two-way approach, who was the abuser in PelicanPete's relationship, in your view?

[zakfar]

Don't worry Pelican! Nothing is wrong with you. She is just playing with your mind. And you're thinking so much just because she accused you of something you 'Hated' to do most in your life.

 

One thing I will tell you. From the explanation you wrote, it looks like she is indeed very dangerous for you. It is possible that if you ever get back to her, your relationship would turn indeed in an abusive relationship, but the situation will be reversed. You will be the victim in that case. Please take my advice and forget about whatever happened between you too. You will eventually get someone good for you.

 

By the way, I don't agree with the stats discussed here. The percentage of abused males is lot higher than mere 20%. The problem is not most males don't try to hide the fact that they are being physically abused by their female partners. They are afraid of humiliation in the society. And psychological abuse, no one even consider them when the victims are males. This is an intense discussion, which I would like to avoid in this forum. As it will start a gender war, which I'm entirely against. I myself has worked against Domestic Violence, and has secured both Females and Males Victims. For me, abuse is abuse, no matter which gender is the aggressor, and which one is the victim. Please keep it this way when we are talking about 'Abuse'.

[PelicanPete]

Thanks for more input, which leads to an interesting debate. Im definitely not going to communicate with my ex anymore. Like I said, she is still trying to keep the line open through communicating with MY friends, and she still wants us to be friends and that she misses talking to me, but I don't really want anything to do with her. It would be doing her more of a favor by us staying friends, and I don't think I owe her anything. I did hear that she got engaged with the other guy a little more than a month ago, they've only been together since christmas. So not trying to reduce my possible abuse, but maybe it wasn't entirely my fault. Maybe she is just really insecure person.

[betterdeal]

Good for you, Pete. Finding better ways to express yourself is key to having better relationships (with lovers, family, colleagues - everyone).

[Breezy Trousers]

 

Did you treat her differently in public than when you were alone together? Honestly? If you did, it's likely that you were abusing her.

 

 

Just want to say that this is an excellent point. Most abusers are act gracious and charming in public, only to take off the mask in private.

 

While I seldom encounter abusive personalities anymore, in the past two years I've had to deal with an abusive personality at work (not a problem for me -- I can usually avoid him). Twice he has tried to throw me off balance by privately grimacing at me in rage (literally baring his teeth), only to turn around ONE SECOND LATER with a jovial, relaxed face, calling out a cheery "hello!" to co-workers, who would cheerfully reply back. This guy is high up in his huge church and is virtually "Man of the Year" in our work community. Typical, though. Image is eveything to abusive personalities.

A Dr. Jeckyll/Mr. Hyde persona is typical, too. The sudden mood cycling creates cognitive dissonance/confusion and a sense of isolation for the targets, thus making the targets easier to control --- unless, of course, the target is highly conscious of how abuse works and understands that this is a predictable tactic in the abusive personality's arsenal (yawn).

 

Anyway --

 

Pelican Pete, if this is a honest question (and only you know), then you're probably not abusive. Abusive people would never ask such a question because they don't think they have a problem.

 

However, abusers are also unbelievably manipulative. SO: If you posted this question to solicit "proof" for your girlfriend that she's the problem, not you, you might want to do further exploration.

 

I hope it's the former, not the latter. If it's the former, you're in for a happy life. Self inquiry makes it so.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Breezy Trousers