G.i.g.s.?

[Heidi89]

The past few days I have been feeling really crappy after a hopeful few weeks. I think it's because I've been finding it so hard to accept why my ex broke up with me. We had a great two year relationship and were totally in love. We had our ups and downs, but the downs were rare and never serious. Yes, we probably spent too much time together, because we were best friends aswell as a couple. I'd say that was our only kind of underlying issue. We had a couple of strained weeks before the break up but nothing too serious and they were more individual issues than issues with our relationship..we were both working lots and got stressed. Still, we were very much in love and I noticed no difference in his behaviour. The night of the break up he was telling me how much he loved me, and the day before we booked a pretty expensive holiday for my graduation in the summer. We had an argument because he came home late and I said some really hurtful things which looked like I didn't trust him (I did, I was just being a bitch). Although I don't underestimate how much I hurt him with what I said, I don't think it was enough to leave an amazing relationship for. His sister knows him better than anyone and said there was no way he'd throw what we had away over it, and that he would come back after a couple of weeks alone.

 

Just after the break up my ex met a new group of friends who he goes out and parties and takes drugs with which is not like him at all. He bought a motorcycle, and met a girl who is part of this group and he flirts with her on facebook and vice vera. From what I know, she is completely not his type..far too loud and boyish for him. Like I said, I had no idea he was going to end it and I almost feel like he was using the things I said as an excuse to get out, because a week later he changed his reasoning from the argument to 'I just need to be on my own at the minute, but I've never stopped loving you'. Funnily enough, two days before the break up he ran into an old friend who he used to party with (and who he has met this new group of friends through), and he mentioned that he was going to some thing and my ex was jealous. I told him he should go but he was cagey about it. His parents said he was 'having a midlife crisis 20 years too early'

 

I feel like seeing this old friend made him kind of curious about having that life again and that he didn't leave me because of me, or even our relationship..but because of him and how he felt. I get the impression that GIGS is more to do with leaving for another relationship, but could it apply here where they are leaving for another life? It has been 6 weeks and he spends mon-fri at work, then parties all weekend from fri-sun without going home. This is not the same guy I knew at all. He's only 22 and has been in relationships since he was 16, and we were planning on moving away towards the end of the year. I don't know if this is relevant but maybe he kind of freaked out? I'm just finding it really hard to understand why he ended it when we were happy. His sister still says she can't believe the way he has acted and that he's making the biggest mistake of his life.

 

I'd really appreciate any opinions on this. I may have it all wrong, but I just feel like his behaviour is so out of character and I'm trying to understand why! I saw Homebrew's thread and thought maybe that is what has happened. Thanks

[WutheringH]

Hi Heidi,

 

This is going to be a long reply but belive me it is in your interest to take the time to read it. The reply may be a bit nihalistic and depressing to handle at first. However, I have found in the past my knowledge can help people move on and understand their relationship from a fresh perspective. Ultimately ending the process of grief quicker. Im not an expert in the field. However my mother has been engaged in the field of scientific research towards 'love' for over twenty years and it's fair to say that over the course of my personal life i've done extensive reading on the matter as well. So make of that what you will!

 

You must engage with the entire passage for it to be a coherent response however!

 

Firstly, Im sorry your greiving. Grief is a difficult process but one that is ultimately benifical to the human condition. Grief acts as an emotional process that cases Humans to sink into deep introspection, rumination of thought and fleeting emotions of confusion, despair and at times raw anger.

 

I can roughly relate to what you are going through. As of present it might seem like an entirely negative experinence that would be better omitted from anybodys life. It actually serves as an extremely important evolutionary tool, that forces us to work through our emotions and thus work towards having a clearer picture and more focused action as to precisely where we want to be in the future.

 

Homebrew's thread appears to offer anecdotal reasonings for breakups, with the underlying theme of the catylist being the mental state of 'G.I.G.S' on the 'Dumpers' behalf.

 

I personally view romance from a rather emperical and scientific perspective with many of my views relaying heavily on neuroscience, evo-pychology and rational thought. So keep that in mind and I'll give you a rundown of what I feel your Boyfriend has been going through, in terms of his mental state.

 

First though, have a good read through the below and try and understand some of the neurochemistry behind the the experience of 'romantic love'.

 

When you and your Boyfriend first 'fell in love', you would have both gone through a transitionary state of 'early romantic love'. The process heavily targets the brain region called the VTA, rich in dopaminergic neurons. Hence the brain produces a whole host of elated feelings and emotions (VTA is heavily connected to the amygdala which has a crucial role in processing emotions).

Dopamine Regulation is the holy grail of pleasure/motivation and simply wanting to wake up in the morning. Hence when we are in Love, and especially early love. The world can't bring us down. You are literally high and it drives us to have contact on a physical and emotional level with the onbject of our desire.

 

We belive we are atleast in control of some part of the process. i.e Im drawn to this part of his personality, I love this quirk. I love him because of this etc.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

In the early stage of love. The driving force behind making a 'connection' increasingly appears to be whether they match your inbuilt conceptions of attractiveness. In combination to a whole host of other biological markers .i.e Pheromones, being able to sense whether the person has a immune system that is the opposite to our own. Thus potentially giving the offspring a greater genetic variety in the future. A first kiss is in reality a potent chemical exchange and if the brain decides to veto attraction based on the chemistry shared. No 'spark' will occur.

 

If the brain gives the go ahead however the below occurs.

 

Early stage love. It's perhaps the most intense natural experience a Human can have. Its akin to stuffing your face full of cocaine and actually utilises the same reward system that a vast amount of drugs target. Hence withdrawal and breakups of passionate affairs are so similar, both involving depression, craving and relapse and even courtship in process is know to have huge amounts of obsession and thus anxiety tied to it.. all part of the emotional response of a 'high'

 

This stage of Love last in the case of most couples for a max of two years. After this, time correlates negatively with passion.. thus most couples sink into a kind of deep companionship. A rare 5 to 12 percent (a very rough percentage as only a few fMIR studies have been done.. maintain 'passionate love' i.e these are the lucky couples that would appear to have a 'true love' relationship by western standereds.) Maintaince of the feelings of' passion' is largelyout of your hands. Gentics seem (i use the word little as not enough research has been done yet.) to be the crucial factor in determining peoples actions and response in Love. Thus Love, just like mental health in life, is a lottery to a great extent.

 

A neurochemical change reflects this change in relationship dynamic as the passion fizzles. The motivational drive, endorphines, dopamine production all die down and instead, production of Oxytocin and Vasopresin, two of natures 'bonding' Hormones escalates. These hormones are crucial for long term attachment. However, they are not nearly as stimulating on a neurochemical level. Hence the 'flame' of love turns into slow embers. No longer a fury of passion but if lucky, deep and consistent.

 

Some people naturally have an increased expression of Oxytocin and Vasopresin regulation within their brain, thus inheritly they find the stage of attachment more rewarding and thus they are on a biological level, more attached to their partner because their brains signal it to be a more rewarding state of affairs.

 

However this stage of love. i.e long term love. Is truth be told, not that naturally rewarding for many. This appears to be why relationship councillors focus on communication, shared interests/hobbies and shared values as being the cornerstones of relationships. Additionally, why work and compromise are always two of a councillors favourite words. This is because in a long term relationship the chemical ecstasy that drives two people together no longer covers the faults of the other person so to speak. It died fairly quickly Thus its far easyer to accumilate negative ideas about another partner because your back in reality..

 

As George Bernard Shaw once remarked about marriage. “when two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions. They are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously until death do them part.” Then reality returns.

 

Have in mind that courtship often lasted around the two year mark in his day.

 

Now onto your boyfriend.

 

The very fact that your man was still telling you he Loved you and booked an expensive holiday before breaking up, strongly suggests that he like alot of young people, is extremely poor at expressing and understanding the changing nature of his emotional responses. Especially negative ones. Dissatisfaction towards something. (In this case the relatationship) dosn't happen over night. It is a gradual process that likely was over the course of a few months. At least.

 

You can break the typical process down as follows. The mind begins to generate negative thoughts (that note, can stem from subconcious desires outside of what humans deem to be free will) and crucially produces an emotional response to them. Often in the form of Depression, anixety and guilt. This strong emotional response causes them to circulate in the conciousness alot, actually strengthening the neural pathways asscoiated with the thought pattern over time.

This will continue untill the thoughts become so persistant and carry such a negative emotional response that the person experiencing them is inclined to finally act on them in the desire to seek a new set of external environmental circumstaces and thus break the thought pattern. In youth the external cirumstances dictate that breakups happen quite alot thus they happen a often a few months down the line. From when the thoughts begin to dominate the mind.

 

Breaking point occurs much later when external circumstances are much more rigid. I.e Woman have been reported in various studies of divorce to have ruminated severly over divorce for upwards of Seven years before acting on their thoughts.

 

It's likely that this negative thought pattern was associated towards you. A Dumper experiencing deppression is not that uncommon when a relataionship that has been typically 'good' before, begins to produce a very diffrent emotional repsonse to the positive one had prior. Don't take this personally, your actions to be frank many people would suggest could have only made a small decision in the process.

 

Alot of dumpers can't understand why these emotions and thoughts are taking place. Thus they either look for flaws in the other half.. the classic "you've changed", when in fact the other person quite likely hasn't. The dumpers emotional response to them has and thus they seek an external reason where the blame dosn't lie with their self to justify the decision.

 

Self Denial is arguably an important evolutionary tool that stops us becoming deppressed and inactive when we recognise our internal flaws and limitations. Unfortuantly it can lead to nasty external expression and causes alot of nasty breakups.

 

The alternative route is the classic 'bottle it all up', typical if the friendship side of the relationship is strong (as appears to be in your case). As its difficult to pick fights and find flaws to justify your emotions when you actually like the person in front of you. Thus in this scenario a 'breaking point' occurs where they try and blurt out their feelings (which they don't understand) thus they say alot of contradictory and confusing things and make a run for the door. Ultimately actions indicate his emotional level. Whilst as you say his words he will use to manipulate and try and justify his decision.

 

So why has he turned into this strange alter ego being? The man he 'isn't' according to you.

 

Well again its a very common experience and a very common part of the human condition. We have to except, that something wasn't working for him in the relationship anymore. Likely outside of your influnence and resting on a biological level. The relationship wasn't providing the 'kick' anymore and despite his clear acting of normality. (Likely that stress wasn't all work related Im afraid) he will have felt a change at an emotional level in response to the enivitable breakup. Thus he was in a mentally 'low' state. His amygdala would have been working overtime to produce thoughts of Despair, anxiety and guilt at the thought of you.

 

Kicking him into the flight or fight mental state. Which effectivly numbs the brains efficancy to respond to pleasure etc. He choose the enivitable outcome of flight. Your still the same organism hes been mating with for however long and his brain knows that. He's not going to get any 'happiness' on the level he had prior if he stays with you. IF he finds a new mate however his brain will reward him hugely.

 

The biological key to fighting off a low state of mind is by breaking out of patterns. Novelty goes hand in hand with Dopamine. In fact allmost all of the brains reward systems are primed towards novelty. Exploration is a huge part of survival and thus its hugely rewarding. By doing something new and exciting in the form of partying he is essentially self medicating from the low of having to breakup with you. It's not that partying is a 'passion' or something he really wants. Its in an essence a novelty that will make him feel better on a neurochemical level for a while. Just as rebound relationships often do.

 

Character is an ever changing thing throughout life. Humans have a set temperament and outlook on things but how they engage with their environment changes often. Everybody is aware of the coming and going of habits of thoughts, ways of dress, hobbies etc. Its a very natural thing.

 

From the perepctive of love. The fact remains. We are not made to be 'happy' all the time. We are made to spread our genetics. Happiness is a fleeting secondary response that keeps us bothered to stay alive. Some people have neuroanatomy that primes them to go with the surival stratagy of bonding to one partner deeply, thus having two people with solid resources to raise a child well and thus have future gentic succsess. (Perhaps for example you will find this is your romantic inclination throughout life)

Some people have the opposite, they find the onset of a relationship exciting, as well all do. As sex is the most important thing in the world from the 'selfish gene's' perspective. However their not primed for attachment. So will bounce through various relationships for life. Or if environmental circumstances dictate they will settle but inheritly won't find attachment as rewarding and thus likley will have a more strained relationship.. Extra Marital affairs etc.

 

The fact is we are all somewhere on the gradient. In your relationship you where doing what possibly comes naturally to you, being attached. The greatest prize in life was taken away from you.. (a sexual partner from a darwinian perspective) and thus you will go through a negative emotional response. It is inevitable and normal although this makes it no less painful.

 

Your boyfriend is also respectively doing what comes naturally to him.. not enjoying attachment thus being spurred to seek a new mate. (Even if its short term) he'll receive that huge high for producing future gentic variety. Likely eventually he'll grow bored of her too (from an emotional response point of view) and move on to the next woman.

 

Hence in Love the past is often the best indication of a partners future behaviour.

 

To conclude. I know you say "when we ended it we where happy" but this isn't strictly true. His behaviour might have been indicative of a person happily in a relationship. His internal world clearly wasn't happily attached to you. Otherwise he would be deppresed on love shack like you know seeking awnsers. In stead he is out there self medicating to the best of his ability.

 

It's sad and brutal, just as mother nature often is and the circle of life goes on. You will have your good times in the future.

 

If its any consolation. If your are somebody primed to be deeply attached as i suspect many jilted people on love shack actual are. The day you meet somebody else who also has the potential to be deeply attached (luck clearly involved) you will likely have a far happier future life of contentment. Compared to the highs and lows of the person always compelled to search for a new mate.

 

I hope this has helped, feel free to ask any questions. Or get me to clarify some points.

 

Good luck on your journey.

Edited April 10, 2011 by WutheringH

[Heidi89]

I really appreciate your input here. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I understand what you are saying, I just don't feel like it applies to my situation. I could be wrong but if this is what happens to people after a two year relationship, then how do people ever stay together for life?

 

You obviously know a lot more than I do on the matter, so you are probably right. But his behaviour before, during and after the break up just makes me feel like he doesn't know what he wants. He won't speak to anybody about the break up and just seems to be keeping things bottled up.

 

But, if what you're saying is right and he just lost interest in me, does this leave any room for reconciliation? It's not my main aim at the minute. I love him more than I could say, but I know that things couldn't work out right now. Is there any hope for the future?

[VJohnson32]

Hi Heidi,

 

This is going to be a long reply but belive me it is in your interest to take the time to read it. The reply may be a bit nihalistic and depressing to handle at first. However, I have found in the past my knowledge can help people move on and understand their relationship from a fresh perspective. Ultimately ending the process of grief quicker. Im not an expert in the field. However my mother has been engaged in the field of scientific research towards 'love' for over twenty years and it's fair to say that over the course of my personal life i've done extensive reading on the matter as well. So make of that what you will!

 

You must engage with the entire passage for it to be a coherent response however!

 

Firstly, Im sorry your greiving. Grief is a difficult process but one that is ultimately benifical to the human condition. Grief acts as an emotional process that cases Humans to sink into deep introspection, rumination of thought and fleeting emotions of confusion, despair and at times raw anger.

 

I can roughly relate to what you are going through. As of present it might seem like an entirely negative experinence that would be better omitted from anybodys life. It actually serves as an extremely important evolutionary tool, that forces us to work through our emotions and thus work towards having a clearer picture and more focused action as to precisely where we want to be in the future.

 

Homebrew's thread appears to offer anecdotal reasonings for breakups, with the underlying theme of the catylist being the mental state of 'G.I.G.S' on the 'Dumpers' behalf.

 

I personally view romance from a rather emperical and scientific perspective with many of my views relaying heavily on neuroscience, evo-pychology and rational thought. So keep that in mind and I'll give you a rundown of what I feel your Boyfriend has been going through, in terms of his mental state.

 

First though, have a good read through the below and try and understand some of the neurochemistry behind the the experience of 'romantic love'.

 

When you and your Boyfriend first 'fell in love', you would have both gone through a transitionary state of 'early romantic love'. The process heavily targets the brain region called the VTA, rich in dopaminergic neurons. Hence the brain produces a whole host of elated feelings and emotions (VTA is heavily connected to the amygdala which has a crucial role in processing emotions).

Dopamine Regulation is the holy grail of pleasure/motivation and simply wanting to wake up in the morning. Hence when we are in Love, and especially early love. The world can't bring us down. You are literally high and it drives us to have contact on a physical and emotional level with the onbject of our desire.

 

We belive we are atleast in control of some part of the process. i.e Im drawn to this part of his personality, I love this quirk. I love him because of this etc.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

In the early stage of love. The driving force behind making a 'connection' increasingly appears to be whether they match your inbuilt conceptions of attractiveness. In combination to a whole host of other biological markers .i.e Pheromones, being able to sense whether the person has a immune system that is the opposite to our own. Thus potentially giving the offspring a greater genetic variety in the future. A first kiss is in reality a potent chemical exchange and if the brain decides to veto attraction based on the chemistry shared. No 'spark' will occur.

 

If the brain gives the go ahead however the below occurs.

 

Early stage love. It's perhaps the most intense natural experience a Human can have. Its akin to stuffing your face full of cocaine and actually utilises the same reward system that a vast amount of drugs target. Hence withdrawal and breakups of passionate affairs are so similar, both involving depression, craving and relapse and even courtship in process is know to have huge amounts of obsession and thus anxiety tied to it.. all part of the emotional response of a 'high'

 

This stage of Love last in the case of most couples for a max of two years. After this, time correlates negatively with passion.. thus most couples sink into a kind of deep companionship. A rare 5 to 12 percent (a very rough percentage as only a few fMIR studies have been done.. maintain 'passionate love' i.e these are the lucky couples that would appear to have a 'true love' relationship by western standereds.) Maintaince of the feelings of' passion' is largelyout of your hands. Gentics seem (i use the word little as not enough research has been done yet.) to be the crucial factor in determining peoples actions and response in Love. Thus Love, just like mental health in life, is a lottery to a great extent.

 

A neurochemical change reflects this change in relationship dynamic as the passion fizzles. The motivational drive, endorphines, dopamine production all die down and instead, production of Oxytocin and Vasopresin, two of natures 'bonding' Hormones escalates. These hormones are crucial for long term attachment. However, they are not nearly as stimulating on a neurochemical level. Hence the 'flame' of love turns into slow embers. No longer a fury of passion but if lucky, deep and consistent.

 

Some people naturally have an increased expression of Oxytocin and Vasopresin regulation within their brain, thus inheritly they find the stage of attachment more rewarding and thus they are on a biological level, more attached to their partner because their brains signal it to be a more rewarding state of affairs.

 

However this stage of love. i.e long term love. Is truth be told, not that naturally rewarding for many. This appears to be why relationship councillors focus on communication, shared interests/hobbies and shared values as being the cornerstones of relationships. Additionally, why work and compromise are always two of a councillors favourite words. This is because in a long term relationship the chemical ecstasy that drives two people together no longer covers the faults of the other person so to speak. It died fairly quickly Thus its far easyer to accumilate negative ideas about another partner because your back in reality..

 

As George Bernard Shaw once remarked about marriage. “when two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions. They are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously until death do them part.” Then reality returns.

 

Have in mind that courtship often lasted around the two year mark in his day.

 

Now onto your boyfriend.

 

The very fact that your man was still telling you he Loved you and booked an expensive holiday before breaking up, strongly suggests that he like alot of young people, is extremely poor at expressing and understanding the changing nature of his emotional responses. Especially negative ones. Dissatisfaction towards something. (In this case the relatationship) dosn't happen over night. It is a gradual process that likely was over the course of a few months. At least.

 

You can break the typical process down as follows. The mind begins to generate negative thoughts (that note, can stem from subconcious desires outside of what humans deem to be free will) and crucially produces an emotional response to them. Often in the form of Depression, anixety and guilt. This strong emotional response causes them to circulate in the conciousness alot, actually strengthening the neural pathways asscoiated with the thought pattern over time.

This will continue untill the thoughts become so persistant and carry such a negative emotional response that the person experiencing them is inclined to finally act on them in the desire to seek a new set of external environmental circumstaces and thus break the thought pattern. In youth the external cirumstances dictate that breakups happen quite alot thus they happen a often a few months down the line. From when the thoughts begin to dominate the mind.

 

Breaking point occurs much later when external circumstances are much more rigid. I.e Woman have been reported in various studies of divorce to have ruminated severly over divorce for upwards of Seven years before acting on their thoughts.

 

It's likely that this negative thought pattern was associated towards you. A Dumper experiencing deppression is not that uncommon when a relataionship that has been typically 'good' before, begins to produce a very diffrent emotional repsonse to the positive one had prior. Don't take this personally, your actions to be frank many people would suggest could have only made a small decision in the process.

 

Alot of dumpers can't understand why these emotions and thoughts are taking place. Thus they either look for flaws in the other half.. the classic "you've changed", when in fact the other person quite likely hasn't. The dumpers emotional response to them has and thus they seek an external reason where the blame dosn't lie with their self to justify the decision.

 

Self Denial is arguably an important evolutionary tool that stops us becoming deppressed and inactive when we recognise our internal flaws and limitations. Unfortuantly it can lead to nasty external expression and causes alot of nasty breakups.

 

The alternative route is the classic 'bottle it all up', typical if the friendship side of the relationship is strong (as appears to be in your case). As its difficult to pick fights and find flaws to justify your emotions when you actually like the person in front of you. Thus in this scenario a 'breaking point' occurs where they try and blurt out their feelings (which they don't understand) thus they say alot of contradictory and confusing things and make a run for the door. Ultimately actions indicate his emotional level. Whilst as you say his words he will use to manipulate and try and justify his decision.

 

So why has he turned into this strange alter ego being? The man he 'isn't' according to you.

 

Well again its a very common experience and a very common part of the human condition. We have to except, that something wasn't working for him in the relationship anymore. Likely outside of your influnence and resting on a biological level. The relationship wasn't providing the 'kick' anymore and despite his clear acting of normality. (Likely that stress wasn't all work related Im afraid) he will have felt a change at an emotional level in response to the enivitable breakup. Thus he was in a mentally 'low' state. His amygdala would have been working overtime to produce thoughts of Despair, anxiety and guilt at the thought of you.

 

Kicking him into the flight or fight mental state. Which effectivly numbs the brains efficancy to respond to pleasure etc. He choose the enivitable outcome of flight. Your still the same organism hes been mating with for however long and his brain knows that. He's not going to get any 'happiness' on the level he had prior if he stays with you. IF he finds a new mate however his brain will reward him hugely.

 

The biological key to fighting off a low state of mind is by breaking out of patterns. Novelty goes hand in hand with Dopamine. In fact allmost all of the brains reward systems are primed towards novelty. Exploration is a huge part of survival and thus its hugely rewarding. By doing something new and exciting in the form of partying he is essentially self medicating from the low of having to breakup with you. It's not that partying is a 'passion' or something he really wants. Its in an essence a novelty that will make him feel better on a neurochemical level for a while. Just as rebound relationships often do.

 

Character is an ever changing thing throughout life. Humans have a set temperament and outlook on things but how they engage with their environment changes often. Everybody is aware of the coming and going of habits of thoughts, ways of dress, hobbies etc. Its a very natural thing.

 

From the perepctive of love. The fact remains. We are not made to be 'happy' all the time. We are made to spread our genetics. Happiness is a fleeting secondary response that keeps us bothered to stay alive. Some people have neuroanatomy that primes them to go with the surival stratagy of bonding to one partner deeply, thus having two people with solid resources to raise a child well and thus have future gentic succsess. (Perhaps for example you will find this is your romantic inclination throughout life)

Some people have the opposite, they find the onset of a relationship exciting, as well all do. As sex is the most important thing in the world from the 'selfish gene's' perspective. However their not primed for attachment. So will bounce through various relationships for life. Or if environmental circumstances dictate they will settle but inheritly won't find attachment as rewarding and thus likley will have a more strained relationship.. Extra Marital affairs etc.

 

The fact is we are all somewhere on the gradient. In your relationship you where doing what possibly comes naturally to you, being attached. The greatest prize in life was taken away from you.. (a sexual partner from a darwinian perspective) and thus you will go through a negative emotional response. It is inevitable and normal although this makes it no less painful.

 

Your boyfriend is also respectively doing what comes naturally to him.. not enjoying attachment thus being spurred to seek a new mate. (Even if its short term) he'll receive that huge high for producing future gentic variety. Likely eventually he'll grow bored of her too (from an emotional response point of view) and move on to the next woman.

 

Hence in Love the past is often the best indication of a partners future behaviour.

 

To conclude. I know you say "when we ended it we where happy" but this isn't strictly true. His behaviour might have been indicative of a person happily in a relationship. His internal world clearly wasn't happily attached to you. Otherwise he would be deppresed on love shack like you know seeking awnsers. In stead he is out there self medicating to the best of his ability.

 

It's sad and brutal, just as mother nature often is and the circle of life goes on. You will have your good times in the future.

 

If its any consolation. If your are somebody primed to be deeply attached as i suspect many jilted people on love shack actual are. The day you meet somebody else who also has the potential to be deeply attached (luck clearly involved) you will likely have a far happier future life of contentment. Compared to the highs and lows of the person always compelled to search for a new mate.

 

I hope this has helped, feel free to ask any questions. Or get me to clarify some points.

 

Good luck on your journey.

 

DAMN good read! I read evolutionary psychology alot but you seem to know alot more than I do! Would love to get some perspective on my break up from you.

[WutheringH]

Hi, no worries glad it was of some help. Im going to blitz this out for you so please ignore the horrid spelling and grammer!

 

The heightened physiological state that early romantic love is, likely fades within two years because. A) Any heightened physiological state is extremely taxing on the bodys resources. What goes up must come down so to speak. This is common with the ingestion of drugs and pretty much every study ever done on this stage of 'love' shows that. Theirs heavy activity in all the typical areas within the anatomy of the brain that is responsible for the effects of stimulants like cocaine, ecstasy, nicotine and amphetamines. Plus heavy activity in regions associated with Endogenous opioids. Which like typical opiate based drugs gives that sense of 'everything is good and fine in the world'

Nature has created an awsome drug in the form of love and sex. Why two years. No studies have suggest this precisely but at an educated guess from a Evo-Pyche perspective. This intense desire for physical and emotional union is in place for two years because two years gives ample amount of time for conception.

 

Which leads me onto your next question. How do couples last longer than two years?

 

Well i tried explaining but I admit it was brief. This is the crucial piece of info really. The neurochemistry in the brain switches gear.

 

If you imagine your lover as a form of visual and physical stimulation for the brain after two years in the vast majority of people it stops prouducing the effects it had prior. Instead the brain begins to show activity at receptors for the hormones Vasopresin and Oxytocin.

 

These Hormones have a very unique role in nature.They are synthesized by specialized nerve cells in the hypothalamus and other parts of the brain. In their role as brain hormones, they transmit messages between nerve cells in the brain, a process that takes only a fraction of a second. As fast-acting chemical messengers, oxytocin and vasopressin must each approach and dock with its own proteiN receptor on a target nerve cell. Once the docking is complete, each chemical triggers a cellular response. Oxytocin promotes social bonding, the bond between mother and child (breast feeding caring etc. stimulates the hormone) along side empthethy, trust and attachment.

 

Vasopresin plays a larger role in a male but as the two differing Hormones are incredibly related it produces simular responses of mate guarding, territory guarding and attachment.

 

The expression of these receptors for these two crucial hormones in longterm attachment differs in people. The greater the expression in the person the greater the satisfaction and thus compulsion to maintain the loving behaviour there is.

 

If someone has a very weak expression by the time attachments chemistry begins to kick in hes going to have begin to feel dissatisfied with the relationship because biologically its not rewarding for him or her. His genes have primed his expression to suit it to be more rewarding for him to. Fall in love. become disatisfied. Fall in love again and repeat.

 

Woman have greater Oxytocin expression as a whole, so some suggest this is why they are PERHAPS more attached to their partners in general. This fits Evo-Pyche theory because a woman can only pass on her genetic material every nine months thus to run about having lots of sex is never going to be as rewarding as it is to a male who only needs to orgasm to have a shot at having his genes in the future.

 

Thus when two people get together who are primed for long attachment you get some magic!

 

There are also a rare subgroup of human, that people in the field have dubbed 'the swans'

 

Thier fMIR have shown BOTH passionate love activity and long term attachment activity. Sometimes twenty years down the line of marriage.

Rarely are they a couple because the chance of two of these people getting together in life is SLIM. Normal once spouse is still intensly in love and the partner is merely happily attached.

 

No one has yet figured what makes this seperate subgroup of people. They have active sex lives all through their relationship but this isn't a cause of remaining in love, more likely its a corralation.

 

So there is still the mystery of love in this group that is yet to be solved. It is likely the cause is influenced via gentetics i.e they where always going to fall in love passionatly no matter who they fell in love with.

 

My mother actually fits the bill. She married a man of the opposite temperament shall we say and put up with ALOT of **** and yet was still passionatly in love, which shows you the irrationality of the whole thing.

 

Most people lie in the middle of the gradient. Hence Serial monogomy appears to be the norm in todays age, relationships being allowed to form and dissolve as nature by and large intended.

 

Sure theres hope for the future. Couples reconcile all the time. Hes likely still attached he will have mixed emotions just like alot of people fresh out of a breakup do. Imagine it as the two differing surival methods arguing between each other. The one that wants to find another mate clearly won out. It has the power of novelty, exploration, excitment on its side. It often does. It dosn't mean that attachments voice is killed entirely. All those positive memories! the Happiness he felt at one point they are still in there they just gets drowned out so to speak. Whilst the emotions to play the field grow larger and more powerful.

 

 

Theres been quite alot of research done at the moment on Divorces getting back together with first loves. Interestingly its the only group of marriages. (when they go onto marry their first loves) that has a higher percentage chance of lasting than first time around marriage. All evidence suggests that these groups fall in love all over again but this time it lasts because the pychological pull of playing the field has likely been disolved somewhat.

 

Note this requires YEARS to pass. Where talking twenty odd at an adverage. If you got back together within years it likely that the same pattern would be reproduced.

 

 

 

It seems odd but you'll probably reach the point where he just dosn't have any of that 'special' meaning to you. It's just the brain doing what its always going to do. It wants you to have sex to spread your genes! Thus it will grieve and process its feelings. Sooner or later you'll return to the homeostasis of being content without. Then given the right environmental circumstance and you putting yourself out there You will fall in love with another person. Who may be more inclined to stick around. Or not. Past behaviour should tell you that so find out BEFORE KISSING.

 

The primative part of the brain to be frank dosn't care about 'you' as you percieve of 'you' it just wants you to have sex with the first biological candidate that ticks its boxs so you can have a child as you would of when we first evolved and then move on.

 

Eternal Romance and Bliss dosn't exsist to the primative brain. It wasn't key in survival and reproduction. In fact it goes counter to it. Thus most humans don't enjoy an amazing lifelong romance.

 

Depressing i know.

 

Any other questions and I will help!

Edited April 10, 2011 by WutheringH

[Heidi89]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. It really is appreciated. In a way, I hope you are wrong and that he is just having a 'moment' and wants to party for a while, before remembering the great memories we have, places we travelled to, and realises that we would have had a great life together.

 

If not, then I suppose it was never meant to be! Thank you for your input

[zakfar]

Damn WutheringH! I got surprised when you said 'I'm not an expert on the field'. You got pretty good knowledge of Neurological Science.

 

Heidi89, here is my explanation. It might also help you.

 

First of all, Wuth is right. This just didn't happen for an instant scenario. Your BF did not leave you for you, your mistake, and not even for that girl. It looks like he was tired of his 'Simple' and 'Boring' life. May be he has been hiding it from you, but he always wanted to be the kind of life he has suddenly adopted. It was his internal desire, which he could not realize for so much time. He did not talk to you, as he he did not know how would you react. He might have thought about telling you all that, but you just didn't fit in that scenario, and he left you. Maybe he still loves you, but it's just that... he believes you won't like the 'New Him', and you will try to pull him back towards what he used to be earlier (and what he doesn't want to be anymore.)

 

Here you should first analyze yourself. You should try to understand how far you can go for him. Let's say, if he wants that kind of life, can you help him in fulfilling his desires. If you can't, it's better to wait for him. It is possible that someday, he will get tired of that 'New Life' and will return. But it is possible that he completely converts in that, and never returns. You can start thinking about the ways of forgetting him. You should try to avoid your bad feelings for 'Why did he left me?' as he didn't leave you because you did a mistake. He was indeed happy with you, but just that, he did not like the lifestyle he had with you.

 

Now, if you want to get to him, and can have a life with him in that new scenario, or you don't have a problem in whatever style he chooses to have for his life, then you can get to him... but in the way he wants. I don't think there is any need of telling you how will you do it. You will know it yourself what to do. Just dress up in the way the girls dress up in his new circles and get to him. He will be surprised, and will try to remove you from there, trying to believe that you are 'Ruining' your life for him. But it can work. This can also work if you want to bring him back to his previous life. Just don't tell him that 'This is all bad'. Instead, do those things that are common in those circles, and make him feel 'Bad' by watching those.

 

I don't know how far do you want to go for him, and how much you love him. You can save him if you want, but for that, you will indeed need to go through a hard time.

 

Wish you good luck.

 

Zakfar.

[WutheringH]

Sure! No worries! On a personal level i would really like to be wrong as well! Science of the mind is still a infant field, there is a massive amount of room for error. Let along a field such as the mind in love.

 

Still general patterns have been discovered and you can make of that what you will!

 

Good luck on your journey, if you ever get tired of waiting and being heartbroken.

 

My personal mode of action in your situation Amongst all the usual forms of therepy and relief. Exercise etc. Try the supplement 5-HTP. Works for me. But read up on it BEFORE TAKING. Just like anything.

 

Directly after heartbreak the brain appears to drive serotonin levels down. This is one part of the brains attempt to get you to obsess over your loss and thus seek them out again. A call to arms if you like!

 

Low serotonin levels go hand in hand with OCD, rumination etc. When you fall in love they go incredibly low. Which is that stage when you literally can't stop thinking about them. However the thinking enforces the positive emotions to keep coming!

 

Happens again come heartbreak time! Just not in a nice way. 5-HTP drives Serotonin levels up acting as a mood regulator. I find it stops me thinking in an obsessive fashion thus you don't ruminate over the heartbreak as much.

 

Finding yourself ready to move on before you know it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by WutheringH

[Heidi89]

Now, if you want to get to him, and can have a life with him in that new scenario, or you don't have a problem in whatever style he chooses to have for his life, then you can get to him... but in the way he wants. I don't think there is any need of telling you how will you do it. You will know it yourself what to do. Just dress up in the way the girls dress up in his new circles and get to him. He will be surprised, and will try to remove you from there, trying to believe that you are 'Ruining' your life for him. But it can work. This can also work if you want to bring him back to his previous life. Just don't tell him that 'This is all bad'. Instead, do those things that are common in those circles, and make him feel 'Bad' by watching those.

 

Zakfar, thank you for your advice! What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. I think he knew he couldn't have the life he is living now when he was with me because I don't approve of drugs and he knows this. However, I have no problem with him spending time with his new friends and partying, just preferably without the drugs. I can't behave like these new girls he has met because he knows I am nothing like them. They live for the weekend, taking drugs etc, whereas I live for the rest of my life with ambitions, and I am a sensible and intelligent person.

 

We aren't really talking at the minute because these forums advise NC, so is there still a chance that he will get bored of the partying and return? I think he knows deep down that this is not the kind of life he can live forever..he needs to grow up at some point. I don't know if things started getting too serious for him and he bailed out, I just wish he'd remember all the great times we shared and how much more our relationship benefited him than taking drugs and partying!

 

 

 

WutheringH -Thanks so much! I will try that supplement. This is not in my nature to be so upset..I am a sensitive person but not usually this emotional! I guess he's my first real love and I'm just finding it hard to come to terms with. I hope after we've grown up a little bit we could try and work things out although I know the odds are stacked against us. I will get through it though!

[WutheringH]

No worries, yes there is still a chance he will return from the party scene and want you back, as somebody who has been HEAVILY involved in the party scene in my younger days and faced various addictions myself I can tell you that it skews the perception of the real 'you' i.e. The balanced,adverage and healthy brained person that I would say, is likely what you saw in your boyfriend before.

 

Im going to share my story with you. I can't say me and your boyfriend will have shared similar states of mind but maybe my story will give you a perceptive on just how confusing and inconsistent the mind can be.

 

When I was younger I partied. Partied hard. I spent a number of years in a haze of opiate addiction thinking that the instant nirvana and carefree state was the ultimate in living. Why would i want to return to a sober nature of living? At the time i abused loved ones. Stole, and lied. Yet life sober was unthinkable. The thought of it when I was in that particular mental state made me deeply sad. Relationships? Love? Family? Ambitions? Nope didn't need them anymore. My mind was on a one way ticket to self destruction. I knew it. I knew alot about psychology even then and yet STILL couldn't fight it.

 

Now in my current, clean living, sober state of mind. I view those days fundementaly as wasted years of superfical pleasure. You can see what Im getting at though right? To know the 'I',the ego, is a complex thing. There are many differing versions of 'self' we explore in life. Are mind makes a narrative of life and stitches the story together to make 'us'

 

Heres the bit i think you will find interesting.. What drove me into taking opiates was actually a rough breakup. On love shack i could be considered one of the "darkside." Im a middle aged guy now and i've had a succession of Romantic relationships with AMAZING woman. The greatest most influential forces in my life have been my Mother and the Woman i've loved. On my deathbed i suspect they will all be prominant thoughts running through my head.

 

Yet, not once in my life have I had my heartbroken by another. I've suffered a fate perhaps just as bad or worse (not fishing for sympathy here, i promise!) I've felt the passion and 'love' for every woman i've ever loved gradually slip through my fingers. As the connection dies and my feelings for another dissipate, everytime i slip into a mix of anxiety, depression and guilt ultimately letting these woman go onto better men that can fufill their needs for commitment.

These are woman many men would die to have. Iv'e slowdanced across kenyan shores with my first love at the tender age of 19, made love whilst under the northern lights, scattered my father ashs in the indian ocean hand in hand with a woman that single handedly picked me up from the gutter of addiction and showed me the pure power of a womans ability to nurture and love another. As i sit here, I can regurgitate memories that simultaneously make my eyes grow glazed but also create a huge smile across my face.

 

That rough break up was the first one, as I let go of my first love of five years. She actually sounds a little like you. Driven, head clearly in the right place and had a mature emotional style and great communication. I was more than aware that she was techinally a great catch if i was to be compelled to spend my life with one person. As i sit here in a decent mental state i can figure.. Well why the hell did i let her go?! Yet i know if I was to be able to re-live the time I would do the same again.

I would be in the same emotional head space. I'd held on for a solid year. Telling myself i could just work through the irrational anxiety. The urge to try something new etc. I couldn't hold on and by the end of the year I was a wreck. Confused at my gradual change in priorites and outlook towards the relationship I did the inevitable and gradual began to explain my emotions and what I had been going through. We broke up. Ironically i handled the pain worse and try to mask it by self medicating through opiates.

 

Every since those days iv'e viewed romantic love as the definition of human irrationality. Combined with my observation of my parents own dsyfunctional relationship.

 

The romantic relationship didn't work out. Yet after the distance and healing we reunited as friends. Because the romantic relationship didn't last a life time some would deem it 'failed'. Yet I would have deemed that relationship as life affirming. I wouldn't trade those dances, those safaris and ecstasy of young love for THE WORLD. Failed my ass. I saw a failed relationship in my parents and it was full of genuine longterm pain and suffering ending in suicide. Sometimes letting go really isn't a bad thing..

 

My kindest advice to you would be don't wait around. Cherish what you had . But now is the time to heal. If he comes back and you are still in the mental space to rekindle romantic love then go for it! However science and statistics are not on your side. Make of that what you will.

 

Romantic love is an incredible emotion that allows us to feel the full force and capability of human empathy, caring and sexual energy. If we could all remain in Romantic Love with one beloved forever im certain the world would be a kinder and more wonderful place.

 

However Romantic Love is inheritly human and thus represents the human 'core' i.e the selfish gene. Thus with the highs comes the despair,grief and anguish of negative emotions.

 

All I can say is that the most beautiful thing ive ever learned about the human brain is that the most prominant and intense longterm memories we store are those of intense euphoria and peak experiences. The brains natural reward system is 'fine tuned' so to speak to help enhance memory making and retention of experiences that are good. The general rule is that bad ones get repressed or never remembered in the first place.

 

So maybe yes he will return. Don't hold out though. Heal and leave something to fate because science is ruining the rest!

 

One day no matter what happens, you WILL look back and smile. First love can hurt at the the time. Trust me i know.

Edited April 10, 2011 by WutheringH

[D-Lish]

One day no matter what happens, you WILL look back and smile. First love can hurt. Trust me i know.

 

Most of the men I've dated that avoid intimacy- (which is really what you are talking about when it comes to developing that connection on a deeper level after the honeymoon phase) often cite the loss of their first love. I've dated 2 men in my life that I know will never develop true intimacy with a woman, commitment phobes if you will. Both of those men had their hearts broken once, in their younger years, and they've never revisited intimacy ever again.

 

But it makes sense to me that a person's past relationship history is often indacative of what their future patterns will be. I will pay much closer attention to that in the future.

Edited April 10, 2011 by D-Lish

[WutheringH]

D-Lish. It dosn't suprise me. Iv'e never come across any journals or research suggesting men's pyches would be effected by the loss of a first love more then womans. However, i've experienced alot of anecdotal evidence that would support the idea. I always bang on about Hemingway, Twain and F.Scott Fitzgerald. But all three of these iconic authors who lived in a time when it was 'ok' to be confessional in writing. Admitted to being deeply affected by their first loves.

 

Twain, consistently dreamt,wrote and sought out his first love Laura Wright for his ENTIRE life, despite being happily married (in the context of the day.) He met the girl on a steamboat trip which was over the course of a few days. He never physicaly saw her again. Yet she was his Muse in many of his writings.

 

F.Scott Fitzgerald. Was spurned by his first love, socialite Ginevra King. As a poor boy she essentially became his 'love map' as to the future females that would attract him. The rich, much desired and unattainable southern belles. Ginevra would become his muse (alongside the wife Zelda, who was creepily like Ginevra, just as his future mistress was in turn a mirror image of Zelda)

F.Scott Fitzgerald would cite Ginevra in his famous break down essay, the crack up. As being one of the things he still couldn't 'get over' twenty years down the line.

 

Hemingway in turn. Never truely got over his First love. Agnes von Kurowsky. Again unconsumated yet highly emotional affair. Ten years down the line she was the muse for 'Catherine Barkley' In 'A Farewell to Arms' and Hemingway suggested that much of writting was an attempt to process 'her' and rid himself of the emotion. Needless to say it didn't work and come 1961 and Hemingway's Snows of Kilimanjaro she was still the muse.

Hemingways actions suggest he was a womanizer and yet before he killed himself he publicly stated how distraught he was that he let himself be compelled to leave Hadly Richards (His, arguably, one true love from the perspective of a consumated love affair). Going as far to say he wished he'd "killed myself before loving another woman."

 

All anecdotal of course but for what it's worth my Father kept the letter from his first love wrapped an a single silk ribbon. In a trunk of a few prized items. These letters alongside a picture of my mother and his mother where the only things by his side when he choose to end his life.

 

If I had to make a guess, perhaps if there is lasting damage, its because for many men it takes the heightened emotion of romantic love to really find the strength and courage to open up to intimacy. The compulsion of passion draws it out of them. When the love fails or changes i guess maybe they feel betrayed and almost scared of what happened. Living in their shell is easier, as they know that level of pain can't be experienced again.

 

For woman intimacy and fluent exchange on an emotional level is arguably a more regular part of female dynamics.

 

What I can tell you, is that men are three times more likely to commit suicide after the demise of a love affair. Precisely because they don't have the level of intimacy and emotional support to work things through. Thus yes perhpas men to take things harder in this respect.

 

As my farther would say to my Mother "Talking only makes matters worse!"

Edited April 10, 2011 by WutheringH

[Heidi89]

WutheringH, what you're saying is really making sense to me. I appreciate your opinions and perceptions on my situation. I guess all that is left for me to do is move on. I wish he could answer these questions that I have about why we broke up, and why he doesn't contact me any more but I guess I'll never know unless one day he comes out of the wood work and tells me lol!

 

I'll be okay, it will just take time

[homebrew]

This is G.I.G.S. all the way!

 

People with G.I.G.S. do not necessarily leave for another person or relationship. In fact, many of the people that have G.I.G.S. break up with no other person "waiting in the wings".

 

The cases that you do see "another person" come into play is when the person with G.I.G.S. wants to "cushion" the blow of the break up. Still have G.I.G.S., but are the type of people that can't be alone or cope well.

 

Like you said, your EX didn't even know this girl that he is now flirting with. However, he still suffers from G.I.G.S.

 

I once had G.I.G.S.... So if you want to understand what your EX is thinking / feeling... Go read my write up of my experience with G.I.G.S Here.

 

My recent EX had G.I.G.S. and after a year she is now coming out of it. She is begging for me back. That write up is Here.

[Heidi89]

Homebrew, If this is right, is there a chance he will come out of it? I know I can't wait around and I don't intend to, but I would like to think that in the future there is a chance for us.

 

The thing is, he isn't even speaking to me at the minute which I just don't understand. I haven't contacted him in a month, although last week he made contact to get a passport back which I responded to. My mum saw him and said he looks very happy with his new life, which is what worries me concerning our chances of reconciliation at some point.

[WutheringH]

Heidi, forget if the guy looks 'happy', he looked happy before he left you. Yet his action. Leaving you was indicative of an unhappy person.

 

Im outgoing and look happy almost all of the time yet internaly I suffer from depression once in a while. I've just learnt to mask it. Fake it till I make it etc. Outward persona is only half the picture.

 

The only way you could really find out how he 'feels' is via communication. Even here he's effectivly lied to you in the past by not explaining his changing feelings to you. Thus when it comes to a discussion how can you now even have faith in what he says ?!

 

His actions dictate all you need to know for now. Thus whilst you will instinctivly dwell on him and his mental state right now. Try not to! This is why highly engaging activities such as sport, art, even videogames are perfect for this time. They require entering that state of 'flow' where you can't ruminate over your emotions. The more time you spend in this state now the better.

 

Homebrew.

 

I think G.I.G.S might be on occasion, used in a context where the breakup is not worthy of the definition.

 

To me, you can reduce relationships to a fundemental. Your in, or your out. Yes, sometimes there on/off etc. Typical, due to mixed emotions. However given time even off/on relationships phase out. Or the decision to be 'commited' for at least another long-term period of time is made.

 

I'd argue that, the simple thought process of 'the grass is greener' that you seem to describe Homebrew. Within a relationship, is not nearly enough to drive people to break up. It's deeper than that, but having experienced that, i guess you know that. True emotions and desires. The 'beast' of the subconscious if you like. Dictate what enters our waking consciousness which if it has a 'deeper' level of meaning i.e. if the thought has a strong emotional attachment. Will then drive us to act.

 

Consider this. Anybody whos suffered from compulsive or intrusive thoughts, typical of OCD, knows that the myth that we can easily control what enters are consciousness is at best, strained. OCD thoughts often have a strong emotional 'attachment' to them. For example if I refused to act on the copulsive desire to touch the wall three times. I'd feel a strong sense of frustration, anxiety etc. If I act the thought out, out i feel ok.

 

Now treating OCD, say, through standard cognative behavioural therapy, A) isn't always succsesful and B) if it is, often takes months if not years of 'training' the thoughts and adjusting the behaviours.

 

Where as, if i take medication that alters my brain's chemistry instantaneously, i can, if i respond to it, be better within weeks. The underlying problem might still be there. But the medication offers an altered state of mind that relieves the problems.

 

My point being. That i belive, if you sat someone down who was emotionaly content in a relationship. Told them they had to think about alternative states of relationships and being with other people. They would think "hmm i can see how the novelty might be nice for a day" But they WILL return to their relationship, because some of the most primative and powerful parts of the brain are telling them that the investment to the relationship is worth it.

 

Someone whos brain/limbic system is effectivly saying. "This relationship is not biologically 'worth it' your work has been done" Will gradually experience more and more thoughts filling his or hers consciousness with a strong emotional 'attachment', of alternative realities. Driving that person to make the break from their mate.

 

To me, the simple G.I.G thought isn't the culprit. Typical G.I.G thoughts are simply a 'symptom' of whats going on in a much deeper level in the brain. G.I.G become a conscious reality because a deep inner drive tells them to.

 

Just as you could tell a mentaly healthy person to contemplate suicide for the whole day but they wouldn't actually 'feel' suicidal after.

A Depressed person fundementaly experiences neurochemistry that makes life no longer enjoyable. Thus thoughts of suicide enter the rational consciousness with an emotional attachment (i.e the only form of pleasure relief will come from death) Which is what drives the thoughts to become persistant as the neural circuits tied to that thought process to end it all, become stronger.

 

The very fact that suicide exists highlights that the brain is not always our best metaphorical friend. Sometimes it really wants us to do one over on us. It can drive us to make some God awful decisions.

 

Also perhaps we should debate whether G.I.G.S is really just a symptom of youth ?

 

When you look at the brain, the more recently evolved parts i.e the Cerebral Hemispheres, the parts of the brain people would deem most 'human'.. language processing, emotional control, visual perception, rational thought, controling goal direct behaviour etc. We are really stil,l a slave to the reptilian brain.

 

In laymans terms. The neural connections of the limbic system to the 'thinking' brain is like a super highway. Thus its influence over how the 'thinking' brain processes is huge. Where as the 'downwards' connections from 'thinking' brain to limbic system is like a back country road with a vast amount of pot holes. i.e Alot of what humans pride themselves on. Modern civilization, developed thought. rational thinking, equality etc. Dosn't gel with inate motivations that still remain within us from the birth of the modern human so to speak.

 

Thus i don't see how the perception and awareness of being young, having a lot of fertile mates around would really be able to overwealm what ever mating plan your limbic system has in the first place. I see plenty of men and woman in history who have always been promiscuous and are late into life. I don't see this as simply as a phase that people pass through. You ether bond well or you don't.

 

Thus a break up percieved to be motivated by G.I.G.s might actually lie in a period of depression that lowers a persons positive response to a loved one, allowing the intrusion of thoughts regarding another mate bringing an instant pick me up of happiness due to the hook up.

 

G.I.G.S is not a one fits all means for understanding all breakups. If anything it just reflects how people can have such confusing thoughts and emotions. The catylst could lie elsewhere.

 

I do however see room however within my thoughts to suggest that as libido and sexual desire declines its 'easyer' to stay motivated to one mate as your not having to experience intrusive thoughts about sexual experimentation with other people etc. Plenty of Middle aged people, become infatuated and fall prey to "G.I.G.S" however.

 

In evolutions terms, it makes sense.

 

To form yet another arkward analogy.

It's logical to have one great big brute of a man directing the motivations and behaviours we display in life. Even if we sometimes hurt, steal and lie to get our way. In evolutionary terms it's likely we will have some succsess and theirs not a whole host of iner conflict. We are who we are.

Where as, if the more modern recently evolved parts of the brain. That we utilise to fine tune morality, equality.. rational 'thought' in genral could REALLY influence our motivations, emotions and desires. We'd probably all be emotively compelled to be beutiful people all the time. However, genticaly we wouldn't be as succsesful. (Certainly wouldn't be able to have an affair. The very notion that it's not 'right' would instantly make it a highly unattractive idea. You'd be intrinsically motivated to avoid it. Imagine that being highly rewarded for not even looking at a member of the other sex after you've pair bonded!)

 

Thus a mix of some alturism but largly selfish behaviour. Where all 'selfish' even if you inate behaviour compels you to do something 'good' in societies terms e.g spent your life working for charity. It's still behaviour compeled by the 'self'.

[Heidi89]

WutheringH, are you effectively saying that my ex boyfriend's behaviour (partying) is an effect of the breakup rather than a cause of it?

 

I understand what you are saying logically, but I can't understand emotionally because we had a great relationship. I know, he couldn't have been happy or he wouldn't have left me. He worked long shifts every day for a month and was exhausted, and I was unsympathetic because I didn't understand the effect it was having on him. He spends his life now going to work, going out on his new motorcycle, and partying on a weekend. I feel like he is dwelling on the unfortunate month or so we had before the break up (I can't use the word 'bad', because it wasn't), rather than thinking of the amazing times we had. Of course he doesn't want to come back because his head is filled with negativity, and the way I behaved after the break up probably didn't help.

 

Is there any way that he will forget this and remember the great times we shared? It has been 6 weeks since we broke up now, and he is showing no signs of any feeling towards me or the times that we shared which I don't understand. He told his sister after we broke up that he still loved me, and was still in love with me. How could he just walk away if that was the case?

[WutheringH]

Hi heidi, once again bit of an epic reply where i divert a little but hopfully it helps.

I can't offer THE awnsers, just food for thought..

 

I've personally seen plenty of breakup that follow this pattern. You guys clearly had a great compatible relationship. Good times made better spured on by the physiological state of 'romantic love'.

 

If you guys hadn't have had the biological phenomenon of 'falling in love' occur between you two, no doubt you would have had great friendship memories by now. However, they wouldn't be the amazing 'flashbulb' memories that undoubtably you both have now, having created memories whilst in the physiological state of 'intense romantic love'

 

A memory of walking in the park with someone you are in love with can last a lifetime as a vivid 'picture' in your mind. Songs can also bring you back to almost 'touching' those emotions you felt for someone when in love many moons ago. The brain 'in love' is primed to create these intense memories when its in a state of euphoria and bliss, typical of many memories when in love.

 

However, heres the crucial stuff for you to get your head around.

 

Just because the interaction and dynamic of the relationship was good and you two people clearly where decent 'fits'. Simply getting along is not enough to sustain a romantic relationship.

 

If this was the case..

Behavioural quality and interaction combined with long-term quality memories would be the recipe for lasting 'love' . Every relationship councillor put in the tricky position of trying to persuade a spouse who has fallen passionatly in love with a person whos NOT there spouse.. or simply deciding to say "im no longer in love with him/her" To stay with the spouse. Would have an easy job of simply, fixing communication issues, resolving stress etc. Then off the they go, the now again deeply in love married couple!

 

It RARELY work that way. Most people in todays society enter into their long-term romantic relationships precisely because of the emotion of 'love'

Even though most people know incredibly little about what 'love' is on neurochemical basis they still experience it and thus 'know' it. When its gone. They feel compeled to leave their relationships.

 

Relationships lasted longer generations ago not because they found 'true love' more often.

 

It's because life was hard. Pleasure was a secondary. Staying together was often needed economically to surive. Divorce and breaking up were stigmatized via society because religious doctrines had greater influence over peoples behaviour and quite frankly woman where not yet allowed to be human.

 

The emotions that go hand in hand with a great companioniative relationship are not enough to keep most people in today society, within a monogomus sexual relationship.

 

Thus if that 'edge' of the heightened emotions of 'love' leave a romantic relationship most people feel compelled to leave the relationship. They might not tell the other person they have fallen out of 'love' as a variety of differing ways to get their desired results exist. Cheating, initiating fights to 'break the relationship down' and cushion their guilt at just walking out the door. Or.. just walking out the door.

 

I BET that if you could peer inside your boyfriends head. It would, as of present, be an emotionally sad and confused place where he can't quite figure out ether, why the love for you has died/or faded. I doubt the negativity of the last month is even the prominant factor being played out. If anything the stress you noticed was just a fact that he knew he was reaching breakout point and it was taking its pychological tole on him. Spouses considering leaving marriages where theres a good relationship dynamic but one has reportedly 'fallen out of love' often report that the person leaving goes through a kind of, mini-mourning at the realisation that they are REALLY going to do what their about to do.

 

The one left behind is often found in therapy retracing similar things you noticed.. stress, anxiety and a slight 'offness'

 

The fact he said he 'still loves you' to your sister, to me simply suggests that hes still processing his emotions and there is still an element of that 'feeling' behind. Why?

 

Well Neurochemistry dosn't just change overnight. It's a gradual process. In my opinion though, if you look at typical relationship patterns, from this point onwards.. hes falling away from you not towards. Reconciliation DOES happen, just not often. He can walk away because the pleasure he obtains from you is no longer as strong as the pleasure his limbic system is 'telling' him he can get from seeking other girls.

 

Still, he will have been attached on some level. Thus, there will be some sadness on his behalf. Conflicting desires and motivations in the brain are the reason behind 'mixed' emotions. He's got mirror neurons, he's felt pain before. He's human. He knows your suffering. Yet there is a stronger drive within perhaps telling him NOT to reinvest in you.

 

He knows it's likely you still want him and he also knows as of the moment he's not sure he want you anymore. Thus consider that by NOT contacting you he's actually saving you from facing the confusion and negative emotions all over again.

 

However, just like an addiction to drugs. As time passes the conditioning of 'pleasure' derived from the drug fades. Hence craving, temptation to relapse and all the negative emotions asociated with withdrawl fade away. The memories of the 'good' times remain. Just like many of the positive memories of your relationship with him well remain within him.. simply as time passes the memories and thoughts of you contain less of an emotional 'pull' to seek you out and reunite.

 

Sadly it seems many people in their youth are too emotionaly immature to discuss feelings and instead of biting the bullet they simply leave with no explaination as to their true mental state. If one who wants to leave, has to stay, to explain and work through things with the person that they once loved. They face an emotionaly difficult process knowing the other person will be A) in despair B) put up resistance and C) make the dumper likely feel like the scum of the earth.

Despite it being openly branded as 'horrid' by society many young people still go for the letter,text,email breakup precisely because it involves them not having to be there to witness the damage they will cause. It's the exact opposite of maintaining 'grace under pressure'.

 

The result is confused (like you) or alternativly emotionaly damaged people who can't trust in the future.

 

Regarding the partying, he's likely, as i said, experiencing some mixed emotions thus partying/drug taking is an obvious way to mask any of the depression and sadness he may be experianceing from the demise of your relationship.

 

When depressed or sad, everybody looks to get back to feeling 'good' i.e returning to a state of homeostasis. Some do this in a healthy fashion i.e exercise, eating healthy. Talk therapy etc. Some go destructive and take drugs.

[Heidi89]

Ahhh this makes so much sense..I just wish it didn't. I've had 6 weeks of perspective. I can see where things went wrong and that I took him for granted and I wish he'd give me that chance to prove that we could go back to how we were, without the stress and small issues that we had. I am 100% sure of this. Never mind, I'm sure another will come along.

[WutheringH]

Yes, from my perspective the partying is a result of the breakup. Not a cause. This is because i take a very determanistic approach to the lifespan and playing out of 'Romance'

 

To really simplify it.

 

Limbic system of the brain. I.e all the most pimitaive parts of the human brain. Is where the vast amount of the neuroscience of romantic 'love' seems to be played out.

 

Notice how romantic love is incredibly dominating. It's almost like a drive. When in love you can't ignore it. Can't control it. We can't just use our higher brain functions to 'control it'

 

The limbic system has always done a pretty good job at getting mammels to have sex. Thus in many ways in regards to Sexuality, Love, Romance in humans we still utilise similar hormones and neurological structures to stay in 'Love' and mate/look after offspring as mammels.

 

To show you an example. Prairie Voles fall in Love with a mate and then stay mongomus for life. They are fundementaly far more mongomus then humans.

 

The reason being, that they have a vast expression of oxytocin and vasopresin receptors. The social bonding hormons. In reward centers in the brain. Thus bonding and having sex with the one is hugely rewarding. So they do it all their life.

 

A relatively small area of the human brain is active in love, compared with that involved in, say, ordinary friendship. Its actually hugely interesting that the feelings behind the "face that launched a thousand ships" could be caused by such a limited expanse of cortex.

 

Thus the feelings we consider so important in 'love' come and go like fever. We can't 'think' them alive or 'think' them away. The limbic system dosn't work that way.

 

When we get attached to a mate it is through the same fundementaly mechanistics. Oxytocin and Vasopresin stimulation and up-regulation in reward centers in the brain.

 

Someone whos genetics dictate will lead to a vast expression of Oxytocin and Vasopresin in their ventral pallidum will become more attached and stay 'in love' longer.

 

As one study showed, where men with longer variations of the AVPR1A gene (that codes for vasopressin receptor expression in humans) scored lower on the bonding questions and were less likely to be married compared to men who did not have the variant.

 

Also, men with two copies of the gene variant were twice as likely to report having had a relationship crisis with their marital spouse or partner in the last 12 months as men without the variant.

 

Whilst there are likely other factors at play you can instantly see just how heavily various elements of 'Love' are determined out of our hands. These men simply are not as 'rewarded' by their brain to maintain attachment. No matter the hobbies, the person, the sex. All these factors won't make a difference.

 

Your man will be feeling 'low' from the break no doubt. He'll be seeking to feel better by engaging in prosocial behaviour. Drug intake is always tempting when feeling low because it's an instant fix. Allbeit not a healthy one. Partying will be making him feel good. Thus right now you can bet he'll continue the behaviour. People do what feels good. When it gets destructive they learn but even then often we repeat bad behaviour in the future. The human brain is primed for short term pleasure.

 

You can also bet his limbic system is driving him towards finding a new mate so he can spread his genes again. If he finds a new mate you can guarrentee that, if the limbic system, gives it's seal of approval. He'll be rewarded by the ecstasy of falling in love all over again.

[WutheringH]

Yep a new one will come along. The brain will do its thing. Good luck.

[Heidi89]

Is there any way at all that he has not 'lost interest' but just feels confused at this point in his life and needs time to work out what he wants? Surely the buzz he feels from partying and racing around on his motorcycle will wear off? Perhaps if I keep my distance and resist contacting him, he will begin to realise that our relationship did give him satisfaction? I know I am clearly clutching at straws here but I know this guy, and I know how he felt about me at least at one point. His sister said she has never seen him happier than when he was with me and I don't see how he could lose interest so easily. We always did things together to keep things exciting. He did not spend enough time with his friends so maybe he needs to get this phase out of his system? I just want him to see he is making a mistake!

[WutheringH]

Accepting any situation beyond our control that negatively effects us on a deep emotional level is perhaps the most difficult of things to grasp in life. Accepting the death of a loved one is perhaps the greatest extreme in this regards.

 

Everybody on Love shack is right there with you. Most of us have been through distressing romantic related episodes and can relate to the bad times in love!

 

ok here we go!

 

"His sister said she has never seen him happier than when he was with me and I don't see how he could lose interest so easily"

 

Quite right! Technicaly speaking as i imagine you where his first real experience of being "In Love" In terms of the neurochemistry that occured in the Brain. It probably was the 'happiest' he's ever been. All those reward centers in the brain. The VTA, nucleus accumbens etc that are directly connected to the limbic system. Will have been producing Dopamine, Norepinephrine and Endorphines in a frenzy of activity. Like NEVER before in life. All this activity is connected to other parts of the brain that control visual perception, scent, memory etc.

 

All to reinforce just how great you are. Consider that from genetics perspective you are the greatest prize in life. A sexual mate, a chance to reproduce and survive the course of time!

As the greatest prize in life it makes sense that the brain would literally bust a gut to produce a level of feeling,excitment unparralled to anything else in life.

 

So yes, if you stuck you boyfriend in a fMIR machine when he was passionatly in love with you his brain by all means would from a scientific perspective (philosophy of happiness is a messy topic) show all the chemical signs of being in an elevated state. Happier then hes ever been. Thus happiness=you=he wants you. Hes motivated to get you. He craves you. No one matter but you. This is almost 'conditioned' into the brain.

 

At the same time his Amygdala will have been working overtime ensuring that you (the greatest prize in life) go hand in hand with elated emotions. He will feel a level of empathy,caring and understanding towards you that hes never felt in his life. Just as he would have felt jealousy, anxiety and fear at the thought of losing you.

 

You say you know the guy.. yes you do undoubtably you know things about him that very few people will ever know. However you know the man under the influence of natures most powerful drug. Love. All the behaviour he showed you was a modified version of a normal mental state.

 

As George Benard-Shaw once said. "Love is the gross over estimate of the diffrence between one woman and another"

 

"If i keep my distance, he might contact" Yeah, well various people on love shack go with this line and I can see the logic in it. It's just normal curiosity, if he dosn't hear from you he want to eventually find out how you are. If you really want this. Deactivate your Facebook account, this will really get him wondering especially as he can't try guess how you are via facebook.

Notice how the majority of Love shack is just damage control however. In reality its a mass form of online therapy to help people process their emotions better/faster and get over the inevitable.

 

The odd SUCCSESSFUL reconciliation story is rare. Most just offer a brief fleeting moment of hope then crash again. Normaly it seems to be when the dumper feels guilt so stupidly gives some false sense of guilt.

 

When i've broken up from girlfriends in the past. I've avoided all contact like he has. The difference however is I always explained exactly what my emotional process was before the break up. Had one big talk it out. Then told them that i would disapear from their lifes for the next six months before checking in via email, which would then lead to a phonecall which then led to being able to socialise and have platonic friendships. The key being damage control and healing!

 

"The buzz from the partying and riding bikes will fade"

 

Well if hes trying new things, engaging with novelty to self medicate. Then yeah eventually, if lets say he is 'down' from the breakup , he will return to Homeostasis and feel that everything is alright in life.

 

He then might not need or feel compelled for the amount of parties bikes etc.

However you've heard the phrase "theres a reason why they are an ex"

 

Well sometimes there are legitimate external reasons. i.e cheating and simply not being able to trust the other makes it VERY difficult to trust and have a functional relationship even on a friendship level.

 

However in reality i feel the main reason why people rarely fall back in love, truely and deeply with an ex. At least for MANY years to come. Is that the brain knows it's 'been there' so to speak. It's makes more sense to spend biological resources on courting and falling for a new mate as it will ensure greater genetic variety in the future and thus more chance your genes will survive in the future.

 

Thus from one view sadly you could say he's not making a mistake. Hes going out to do what life does. Trying to balance survival with passing genes on.

 

If you see the logic in what i belive regarding 'love' im not sure why from a rational perspective you would want this guy who perhaps lacks the ability to get seriously attached long term.

 

The irony is that right now by still 'wanting' this guy. Your brain might seriously be impeding upon your future happiness. Life with an unhappy spouse isn't much fun.

 

Out of interest Heidi, from first kiss to breakup how long where you guys together?

Edited April 11, 2011 by WutheringH

[Heidi89]

Two years and two months. I know that this comes down to science and genetics, but if there is an explanation in this field for breaking up, then surely there must be one for winning back?

[WutheringH]

Slightly over two years is a really common breaking point in many relationships, Passionate Love lasts roughly between, a year to two years in most people. If im being honest two years two months to me screams inability to attach well. It gives him a few months to notice a gradual decline in feeling, a period of confusion, then break out.

 

Yeah sure, of course there must be a science to the 'win back' so to speak. I must admit i do know one couple who on the outside appear to be incredibly bonded and they had a breakup that lasted half a year. They reunited and now, have been together for almost twenty years.

 

In their case they had been best friends since the age of seven. Far before forging a romantic bond. Thus, i imagine their bond likely has some unique nature on a neurochemical level.

 

Indeed, everything iv'e been discussing is general patterns of observation. Patterns of general neurochemistry that corrolate with patterns the keep on showing up in relationships.

 

There are exceptions. Remember those small group of people that retain activity of passionate love alongside the deeper attachment stuff. Well from a evo-pyche perspective, theres no great explaination as to why they would be that bonded..

As come death of their partner they REALLY struggle to move on.

 

If i had to guess (and this is an educated guess, iv'e never seen any journals on the 'win back' so to speak.)

 

Usually a 'win back' happens fairly quickly. This makes sense because once the brain has registered its lost its mate, it goes into a kind of panic mode. A process occurs where the dopamine regulators are 'primed'. They can become increasingly primed for months after the break.

 

Priming is where the dopamine regulators begin to anticipate a future reward. When your in love. Staring at a picture of your loved one. Motivates the regulators to prime. By doing this its acts as a motivational force to seek your partner physicaly out and thus get the reward of mass dopamine stimulation.

 

Ironically when people lose their mate. They often report feeling even MORE in love with their mate. It seems counterintuative. If all the sensory information coming into the brain is telling us he or she is gone? Why feel more in love. Its that pesky and brash limbic system that quite frankly dosn't care about 'you', it cares about ensuring your genes survival thus it dosn't want to lose its mate.

 

The increase in feeling is the effect priming has on us. The brain goes into a priming frenzy. Essentially acting as a motivational force to fight to win are mate back. Often people look back and are ashamed at how desperate and clingy they where. At the time though.. you could view it in the knowledge that in the wild you would have been fighting for an increased chance of your future childs survival.

 

My guess is that as priming is a complex process, the dumper who leaves due to mixed emotions will still get 'primed' themselves and thus a desire to seek the relationship out, grows. Untill he or she returns. IF NC is persued it leads to a sense of novelty and not knowing whats going on. Uncertainty heightens the romantic feeling leading to a reinvestment in the relationship.

 

Again i'd compare it to withdrawal.

 

The addict who sits down and wants to quit often feels God awful.. on one level of emotions he feels horrible and the substance of choice no longer 'does' it for him. He simply has to take it just to feel ok.

 

If he goes cold turkey. He'll face conflicting emotions of relief but also as time goes on increased cravings for the missing drugs. If he gives in before reaching the 'peak' of craving. He'll likely be thrust back into abusing his drug of choice. It's made worse for him by the fact the time away from the drug has allowed his brain to heal somewhat thus hes tolerence is lower and he will likely get pleasure from the drug again reminding him why it was so good in the first place.

 

Obviously the analogy of drugs and love isn't perfect as popular wisdom would tell us that it's rare to fall i love with the same person time and time again. 'Tolerence' towards a person arguably shouldn't lower because to fall back in love with the same person would be a waste of time and resources. Where as becoming addicted to a particular substance can happen time and time again.

 

Still.. it's an educated guess as i say. Win backs havn't been studied as such.

Edited April 11, 2011 by WutheringH