Abusive Relationships - does it take two?

[Woggle]

I agree with some of the things you said but abuse is not as one sided across gender lines as you think. I remember my mother hitting my father, throwing things at him, spitting at him and almost anything else you can think of while he yelled back he never once laid a hand on her. In face she used to scream at him for not being man enough to hit her back.

 

The relationship with my ex was very similar. She used to hit me and throw things at me and once snuck up from behind and held a knife to my throat. I also got called a wimp for not hitting her.

 

I think that the motivations for abuse in both genders tend to be the same though.

[Art_Critic]

Of course this goes back to the definition of what abuse is. I don't believe hurling insults at somebody and them hurling insults back is abuse - it's just a very bad relationship.

 

Actually it is....

This is the power and control wheel of domestic violence

While it talks about Male privilege it isn't only the males doing the abusing..

 

http://www.turningpointservices.org/Domestic%20Violence%20-%20Power%20and%20Control%20Wheel.htm

 

By the way...

In my first marriage I was an abused husband. I can attest to the fact that physical violence can come from the woman's side too..

The first time she punched me closed fist in the mouth was while I was driving us to a breakfast with her daughter in the car.

I told nobody..

 

This might also be helpful

http://www.turningpointservices.org/domesticviolence.htm

[LittleTiger]

Typical man; typical wedding picture; not so typical ending, where the man was immersed in various acids reportedly while alive and 'cooked' in them, by his wife (and a male accomplice), the nice lady in the wedding picture. She was a member of our local business community, a research chemical scientist who ran her own chemical business. He was an administrator at a local hospital. She made about twice his income and they lived very comfortably. Friends described him as Mr. Mom, who tended to the kids, and his wife as the 'assertive' one who worked the long hours. 21 years of marriage ended in a blue plastic barrel.

 

The genders could easily have been reversed. But they weren't. One anecdote, with some of the players known to me. There are plenty more. Did it take two for there to be abuse in their relationship? You betcha. Both people played their roles. Both had choices and made choices. It ended horrifically but could have ended (or not) a million other ways.

 

I didn't really want this to turn into a gender thing but I guess my first post has dictated that it would to some extent so only myself to blame for that one. I will be more careful next time.

 

What I don't understand, Carhill, is how both parties are to blame for what happened in these cases and how can anybody even know what the full story was between them? Abuse happens behind closed doors and the abuser puts on a front in public so that most outsiders don't believe it's happening.

 

He may have ended up dead, but how do you know that he hadn't been cruel to her for 21 years and she finally took her revenge? Before anyone jumps on me I'm not saying that's what happened I am just suggesting it as a possibility. Unless you're one of the two people concerned you can't possibly know for sure - that's the nature of abusive relationships.

 

Assuming that he was the victim though - how was he then to blame for what his wife did? If he was controlled by her and afraid to leave, how is that, in any way, his fault?

 

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but I really don't understand.

[carhill]

Both people are responsible for their role. One of those roles is that of abuser and one is that of the abused. The abused is not responsible for the actions of the abuser, rather for their own actions. Without the abused, there would be no abuser, hence it does take two.

 

Regarding Tim and Larissa, you'd have to read the court transcripts and eyewitness accounts. That particular case is likely beyond the scope of this thread, although illustrative of potential dynamics.

[WorldIsYours]

LittleTiger, you indeed need to research on the topic of 'Females over Males abuse' as your knowledge is close to none. You don't see much across the media, and you think in Domestic Violence always occurs by males over females. The harsh reality is that, there are many males being abused in the society by their female partners. They themselves are not interested to accept this reality, then how can they seek some support. They feel humiliated, and want to live in the hole. This situation is far more dangerous then you can imagine.

 

As I said earlier, abuse is abuse, no matter which gender is the aggressor and which gender is the victim. We should come out of this 'Genderism', forget about 'Feminism' and 'Masculism'. We should simply help the victims and remove the social crimes as much as we can do.

 

Totally agree. There are many men who get abused also and are too shy to speak up for fear their story won't be believed.

[betterdeal]

No I didn't imply anything and no, you haven't abused me. I don't feel either offended or abused by your words so it's not abuse.

 

You are obviously upset by what I posted and you are retaliating. Fair enough. I don't think it's necessary to use foul language to do that and it's certainly not how I would respond, but each to their own. I didn't intentionally upset you and I have apologised, there's really nothing more I can do.

 

You obviously disagree with what I'm saying and, again, you have every right to disagree. This is just my personal understanding and belief about abusive relationships - I certainly didn't intend to present it as a 'model'. It's an opinion nothing more.

 

You really don't get it, do you? You posit an argument that by insinuation means I cannot be the abused and must be the abuser, and further more than men cannot change whereas women have some mysterious ability to change that men lack. You then deny this is a sexist position or that it, by insinuation, paints me and the dead former boyfriend and the criminally insane one, are all abusers not abused.

 

You may not take offence at something, but if it is intended to offend, it is an abuse. If it causes harm it is also abuse by neglect, unless reasonable efforts were made to mitigate risk. I can attempt to kill you and that's an offence. I can kill you by drink driving and that's an offence.

 

An abusive relationship is really, at heart, and in most cases, a difficult one. Both parties find it difficult. It causes them harm. It makes them unhappy. Both are responsible for their own happiness and for their own actions.

 

You say that most abusive relationships are men abusing women. I am not most people. I am me. I nearly died last year because of abuse. The abuse that pushed me into that mental state was deliberate and purposeful use of that same men-are-abusers-women-are-victims "opinion" you are expressing now. And people like you keep on enabling this devastating form of psychological abuse by giving women like my ex your distorted view of the world to prop them up in their lifelong history of abusing men.

 

The pen is mightier than the sword. What offends you may not offend me and vice versa. In a world where everyone can vote, drive, have a job, have a place to live, choose who they sleep with, most problems in relationships simply a bad guy and a good girl.

 

We develop healthy relationships by communicating. You stick your thumb in the wound left by my ex again, I tell you, again.

[WorldIsYours]

Both people are responsible for their role. One of those roles is that of abuser and one is that of the abused.

 

Can you elaborate?

 

The abused is not responsible for the actions of the abuser, rather for their own actions. Without the abused, there would be no abuser, hence it does take two.

 

Are you referring to the victim's decision to stay in an abusive relationship?

[PelicanPete]

I agree that women can be just as heartless and nasty and I can understand men being more humiliated. Unfortunately, along with all the men who don't report abuse because of humiliation or fear there are also women who don't report abuse for the same reason so, whilst I admit to not knowing the statistics in either case, they are never going to give a clear picture of any gender bias - if there is one.

 

 

 

I see your point Pete but I don't understand how it can be termed 'abuse' if there is a power struggle. If one person expects to have power in a relationship and the other person refuses to allow them to take control how is that an abusive relationship. For abuse to take place there has to be a victim - doesn't there?

 

As I see it there are three possibilities.

 

1) The 'intended' victim may refuse to accept the abuse by being assertive so abuse doesn't occur and the two people may have a successful relationship.

 

2) The intended victim can't stand up to the abuser and gradually loses power and control as the abuser takes over - this is domestic abuse as I understand it.

 

3) Both people try to abuse each other and take control of the relationship but if neither succeeds it just turns into a nasty relationship. If neither of you has the power and neither of you is the victim, I don't see how that's abusive. Not pleasant, no, but not abusive.

 

Of course this goes back to the definition of what abuse is. I don't believe hurling insults at somebody and them hurling insults back is abuse - it's just a very bad relationship.

 

I think the difference is the people being abused usually have some sort of feelings for that person, that's why it is abuse. I don't feel strangers throwing insults at each other is abusive, because they don't really have any real interest or attraction. While for example a married couple, they both apparently love each other, but the abuser in that situation is taking advantage and misusing the other persons feelings for them as leverage for control and dominance.

 

If they are both potential abusers, then it doesn't really matter who abused who first, it was bound to happen anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have some sort of feelings for each other, otherwise they'd just break up.

 

Maybe this is a bad analogy, and i apologize if it is, but it reminds me of being a kid and getting into fights on the playground. The teacher would break it up and immediately we'd get into an argument of who started it. In the end, it didn't really matter because we both got in trouble for how we responded to the situation.

[LittleTiger]

Actually it is....

This is the power and control wheel of domestic violence

While it talks about Male privilege it isn't only the males doing the abusing..

 

http://www.turningpointservices.org/Domestic%20Violence%20-%20Power%20and%20Control%20Wheel.htm

 

By the way...

In my first marriage I was an abused husband. I can attest to the fact that physical violence can come from the woman's side too..

The first time she punched me closed fist in the mouth was while I was driving us to a breakfast with her daughter in the car.

I told nobody..

 

This might also be helpful

http://www.turningpointservices.org/domesticviolence.htm

 

Thanks for the links, AC. I have seen them before and they're certainly useful.

 

I am not disputing that women can abuse men - I honestly never have, though my understanding of how often it happens has changed since I started this thread.

 

Clearly many men don't tell anyone about abusive treatment and, as I said earlier, many women don't tell anyone either - despite there obviously being many more resources for women than men. That means stats are always going to be skewed whatever we believe is happening.

 

Perhaps I have a different understanding of the term 'abuse' to everyone else. I have only ever felt abused by someone who has more power than I do - my father, one of my bosses, one of my partners - and there was no way that I could have returned the abuse in any of those cases. Swearing at them or even hitting them wasn't going to make me any more powerful or make them any weaker and, in any case, it would have been 'self defence' not 'abuse'. I couldn't 'abuse' them back and I don't believe I contributed to the abuse either.

 

In cases of adult abuse it's often said that the victim is co-dependent, which may or may not be true - I'm a big advocate of increasing self-esteem and emotional intelligence in order to minimise abuse - however, anybody who has been a victim of abuse knows that you feel helpless in that situation so I don't think it's fair to say 'it takes two'.

 

Obviously, my opinion is based on my own experience, but I genuinely don't understand 'how' both people can have control and power in a relationship at the same time.

[betterdeal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse

 

A 2005 study by Hamel[9] reports that "men and women physically and emotionally abuse each other at equal rates". Basile[10] found that psychological aggression was effectively bidirectional in cases where heterosexual and homosexual couples went to court for domestic disturbances. A 2007 study of Spanish college students (n = 1,886) aged 18–27 [11] found that psychological aggression (as measured by the Conflict Tactics Scale) is so pervasive in dating relationships that it can be regarded as a normalized element of dating, and that women are substantially more likely to exhibit psychological aggression. Similar findings have been reported in other studies.[12] Strauss et al.[13] found that female intimate partners in heterosexual relationships were more likely than males to use psychological aggression, including threats to hit or throw an object. A study of young adults (N = 721) by Giordano et al.[14] found that females in intimate heterosexual relationships were more likely than males to threaten to use a knife or gun against their partner.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks for the links, AC. I have seen them before and they're certainly useful.

 

I am not disputing that women can abuse men - I honestly never have, though my understanding of how often it happens has changed since I started this thread.

 

Clearly many men don't tell anyone about abusive treatment and, as I said earlier, many women don't tell anyone either - despite there obviously being many more resources for women than men. That means stats are always going to be skewed whatever we believe is happening.

 

Perhaps I have a different understanding of the term 'abuse' to everyone else. I have only ever felt abused by someone who has more power than I do - my father, one of my bosses, one of my partners - and there was no way that I could have returned the abuse in any of those cases. Swearing at them or even hitting them wasn't going to make me any more powerful or make them any weaker and, in any case, it would have been 'self defence' not 'abuse'. I couldn't 'abuse' them back and I don't believe I contributed to the abuse either.

 

In cases of adult abuse it's often said that the victim is co-dependent, which may or may not be true - I'm a big advocate of increasing self-esteem and emotional intelligence in order to minimise abuse - however, anybody who has been a victim of abuse knows that you feel helpless in that situation so I don't think it's fair to say 'it takes two'.

 

Obviously, my opinion is based on my own experience, but I genuinely don't understand 'how' both people can have control and power in a relationship at the same time.

 

Abuse is about the behaviour, not about who has the upper hand.

 

Punching someone is abusive no matter who is more powerful in the relationship. If my husband punches me (this doesn't happen btw) and then two days later over dinner I punch him, but he punches me 80% of the time, it is still abusive behaviour and we are both abusers.

 

It's kind of like saying: "he drinks twice as much as I do so therefore I am not an alcoholic."

[LittleTiger]

You really don't get it, do you? You posit an argument that by insinuation means I cannot be the abused and must be the abuser, and further more than men cannot change whereas women have some mysterious ability to change that men lack. You then deny this is a sexist position or that it, by insinuation, paints me and the dead former boyfriend and the criminally insane one, are all abusers not abused.

 

You may not take offence at something, but if it is intended to offend, it is an abuse. If it causes harm it is also abuse by neglect, unless reasonable efforts were made to mitigate risk. I can attempt to kill you and that's an offence. I can kill you by drink driving and that's an offence.

 

An abusive relationship is really, at heart, and in most cases, a difficult one. Both parties find it difficult. It causes them harm. It makes them unhappy. Both are responsible for their own happiness and for their own actions.

 

You say that most abusive relationships are men abusing women. I am not most people. I am me. I nearly died last year because of abuse. The abuse that pushed me into that mental state was deliberate and purposeful use of that same men-are-abusers-women-are-victims "opinion" you are expressing now. And people like you keep on enabling this devastating form of psychological abuse by giving women like my ex your distorted view of the world to prop them up in their lifelong history of abusing men.

 

The pen is mightier than the sword. What offends you may not offend me and vice versa. In a world where everyone can vote, drive, have a job, have a place to live, choose who they sleep with, most problems in relationships simply a bad guy and a good girl.

 

We develop healthy relationships by communicating. You stick your thumb in the wound left by my ex again, I tell you, again.

 

betterdeal, I have apologised for offending you with my post and I have freely acknowledged that I don't know anything about women abusing men though obviously it happens. I'm really not sure what else I can say.

 

I have contacted the mods and told them that I have offended you and asked them to remove the thread so that it doesn't cause any further harm. It isn't within my power to change anything I have written or to remove it myself. If you would like to contact the mods yourself then perhaps they will remove it on your request, if not mine.

 

You story sounds horrific and I certainly do not want to cause you any more anguish than I already have.

[LittleTiger]

Abuse is about the behaviour, not about who has the upper hand.

 

Punching someone is abusive no matter who is more powerful in the relationship. If my husband punches me (this doesn't happen btw) and then two days later over dinner I punch him, but he punches me 80% of the time, it is still abusive behaviour and we are both abusers.

 

It's kind of like saying: "he drinks twice as much as I do so therefore I am not an alcoholic."

 

Thanks DOT, I get that.

 

It's not how I've ever thought of it in the past but I guess it makes sense.

[carhill]

If the abusive person had no one to abuse, he or she would be impotent, hence the need for another person to abuse, hence there needing to be two people in the dynamic. I view, perhaps myopically, the abuser as the weak person in the relationship, having to resort to violence and/or manipulation to empower themselves, rather than achieving that power via cooperation and synergy. It's essentially the same psychology as bullies. They compensate for their weakness by subjugating others. Without others, they are nothing.

 

Perhaps the disconnect is that when a man abuses, especially physically, he penetrates sexually or he draws blood or breaks bones or leaves bruises. It's a violent abrogation of boundaries. It's obvious and easy to discern. Such abuses are historically stereotypically assigned to males. If a woman whacks her husband with a frying pan, well, she's a woman and weak and he's a man and can take it, since he's used to getting beat on by other males who are far stronger and more damaging. Don't criticize her cooking, or so the story goes. Criticizing can be construed to be abusive. There's that 'two' thing again.

[dreamingoftigers]

woo-hoo, breaking down barriers.

[betterdeal]

betterdeal, I have apologised for offending you with my post and I have freely acknowledged that I don't know anything about women abusing men though obviously it happens. I'm really not sure what else I can say.

 

I know you have apologised, thank you, but you keep on justifying and maintaining your position by both denying an insinuation exists, and by declaring it an opinion as though an opinion is immune from being offensive.

 

Can you honestly not see that saying "About abusive relationships - men who abuse are this that and the other" insinuates that the act is performed by men alone? I can see that you may not have thought that through, or meant it consciously, but it comes across that way, and that's often how something that one person feels abused by is done by the other person.

 

You seem to be accepting that abuse is committed by both men and women. The link I gave to Wikipedia details studies show it's roughly half and half men and women who abuse.

 

Domestic abuse is considered to be chronic abuse within an intimate relationship. Chronic meaning something that happens near continuously.

 

As dreamingoftigers has pointed out, if one person is more abusive, it doesn't mean the less abusive person is not abusive.

 

I have contacted the mods and told them that I have offended you and asked them to remove the thread so that it doesn't cause any further harm. It isn't within my power to change anything I have written or to remove it myself. If you would like to contact the mods yourself then perhaps they will remove it on your request, if not mine.

 

You story sounds horrific and I certainly do not want to cause you any more anguish than I already have.

 

I don't want to mods to delete it, but thank you for the consideration. I am very much for free debate. I'd rather continue the discussion, warts and all. This is how we develop our positions, learn, progress.

[LittleTiger]

I know you have apologised, thank you, but you keep on justifying and maintaining your position by both denying an insinuation exists, and by declaring it an opinion as though an opinion is immune from being offensive.

 

I don't think an opinion is immune from being offensive. There are many opinions that are highly offensive. That is why I have apologised. I clearly offended you.

 

Can you honestly not see that saying "About abusive relationships - men who abuse are this that and the other" insinuates that the act is performed by men alone? I can see that you may not have thought that through, or meant it consciously, but it comes across that way, and that's often how something that one person feels abused by is done by the other person.

 

I have acknowledged that I worded my post very badly. If I could rewrite it so as not to cause offence to you then I would. Unfortunately, the LS rules don't allow it.

 

I don't want to mods to delete it, but thank you for the consideration. I am very much for free debate. I'd rather continue the discussion, warts and all. This is how we develop our positions, learn, progress.

 

I have already asked them, though as I understand it, Tony is the only mod these days and he probably won't have the time to consider it anyway.

[LittleTiger]

If they are both potential abusers, then it doesn't really matter who abused who first, it was bound to happen anyway. That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have some sort of feelings for each other, otherwise they'd just break up.

 

Maybe this is a bad analogy, and i apologize if it is, but it reminds me of being a kid and getting into fights on the playground. The teacher would break it up and immediately we'd get into an argument of who started it. In the end, it didn't really matter because we both got in trouble for how we responded to the situation.

 

No, it's not a bad analogy. Having not been in a position where I was able to, or even felt that I wanted to 'abuse' my abuser, I'm surprised to hear that this may be a common pattern in abusive relationships.

 

Once upon a time (because clearly it's no longer the case) women were the 'weaker' sex and were abused by men and all was apparently clear cut in the eyes of the world (though maybe not in reality!). Nowadays, with major shifts in our society and women becoming more powerful, women are clearly also abusing men - perhaps in equal measure.

 

Is this then a third and separate dynamic where the abusers are abusing each other, or is it a new version of the old dynamic that's been created by the changes in our society?

 

If there are abusive relationships where 'it takes two' are both partners potentially abusive and seeking power in the relationship so that's it's impossible to tell who is at fault........or is one partner actually the abuser and the victim has learned to deal with the abuse by behaving abusively in response?

 

If its the latter, I would call that self defence. Although the behaviour may be abusive, are they in fact still the injured party?

[LittleTiger]

If the abusive person had no one to abuse, he or she would be impotent, hence the need for another person to abuse, hence there needing to be two people in the dynamic. I view, perhaps myopically, the abuser as the weak person in the relationship, having to resort to violence and/or manipulation to empower themselves, rather than achieving that power via cooperation and synergy. It's essentially the same psychology as bullies. They compensate for their weakness by subjugating others. Without others, they are nothing.

 

I understand what you're saying here Carhill and I agree that the abuser is definitely the 'weak' person.

 

An abuser obviously can't abuse without having someone to be abusive towards so in that respect it does 'take two'. However, abuse can begin before the victim is even aware it's happening and, if they don't understand what's happening, they can get sucked in so fast they don't know what's hit them (no pun intended).

 

Some people are clearly easier to abuse than others but, even so, the responsibility for abusive dynamics in a relationship must surely be placed on the person who started it.

[PelicanPete]

No, it's not a bad analogy. Having not been in a position where I was able to, or even felt that I wanted to 'abuse' my abuser, I'm surprised to hear that this may be a common pattern in abusive relationships.

 

Once upon a time (because clearly it's no longer the case) women were the 'weaker' sex and were abused by men and all was apparently clear cut in the eyes of the world (though maybe not in reality!). Nowadays, with major shifts in our society and women becoming more powerful, women are clearly also abusing men - perhaps in equal measure.

 

Is this then a third and separate dynamic where the abusers are abusing each other, or is it a new version of the old dynamic that's been created by the changes in our society?

 

If there are abusive relationships where 'it takes two' are both partners potentially abusive and seeking power in the relationship so that's it's impossible to tell who is at fault........or is one partner actually the abuser and the victim has learned to deal with the abuse by behaving abusively in response?

 

If its the latter, I would call that self defence. Although the behaviour may be abusive, are they in fact still the injured party?

 

 

Some good questions that I feel are definitely debatable. I think ultimately it's vague and it depends. It's hard to give clear cut definitions for human actions because there is a lot to consider. I believe carhill is right about the psychology of abusers being similar to bullies. Therefore I think the abusers are the injured party, and the consequence to that is hurting another person. People who are hurting can hurt other people to make themselves feel better. If two abusers or bullies enter a relationship, they're going to bully each other, and there is always going to be that struggle unless one of them make a great effort to change, which depends entirely on the person.

 

As for abuser and "victim", the victim has a choice to act on the abusers level or find another way, which again depends on the person. If the victim starts abusing the abuser, it basically becomes a two abuser relationship. I don't think just because you're being abused it gives you a right to abuse back. Fighting fire with fire is only going to make a bigger fire.

[dreamingoftigers]

I think that women throughout history have been abusive, if not being able to fight back with their husbands then they perhaps go after their children.

 

I also think that abuse is actually a really mishandled coping mechanism by those that abuse. They just can't deal and lose it. And the feelings of power it gives them is addictive as well. Think about all of those hormones rushing through someone that has that behaviour pre-set in their template.

That is not a ticket to do it.

[demonicaycnihlc]

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[zakfar]

I do believe that everything I said about men abusing women is true. If it is also true for women abusing men then I am very sorry for those men who are experiencing it. I'm sure there are a lot of women in the world who can be just as frightening as a man, especially with a weapon in their hand.

 

Yes! In fact, some things you said are more true for other way around. Just take an example, if a man tries to defend himself from being abused, in many cases, he is charged for abusing. It is a common mistake that whoever is hurt more, is considered victim, and as men are physically stronger, their defensive action also causes them trouble.

 

The point of my post was not about who abuses who, it was about whether both people are to blame for the abuse.

 

It's ok. I just wanted to mention it that we shouldn't avoid 'Female over Male domestic violence' when we are discussing 'Abuse'.

 

... I don't think it has much to do with gender. Women can be just as heartless and nasty as men, the only difference is because of gender roles men are usually even more humiliated by it then women and try to keep it to themselves.

 

This is exactly my point. Poor male victims rarely get the support themselves, as they are afraid of the society.

 

I agree with some of the things you said but abuse is not as one sided across gender lines as you think. I remember my mother hitting my father, throwing things at him, spitting at him and almost anything else you can think of while he yelled back he never once laid a hand on her. In face she used to scream at him for not being man enough to hit her back.

 

The relationship with my ex was very similar. She used to hit me and throw things at me and once snuck up from behind and held a knife to my throat. I also got called a wimp for not hitting her.

 

I think that the motivations for abuse in both genders tend to be the same though.

 

This is exactly 'Abuse'. Your mom used to abuse your dad, and you had been abused by your ex. Just think what would have hapend to you, if you would have done those things to her? You would have charged for domestic violence. This is what I'm saying. You were being abused, but you never filed for it, because you were afraid of humiliation in the 'Society'.

 

What I don't understand, Carhill, is how both parties are to blame for what happened in these cases...

 

When the victim doesn't try to get the support for defense, he/she is actually pushing the abuser more towards abuse.

 

LittleTiger, no worries. From your later responses it looks like you copy/pasted some material in the first post from somewhere a typical Feminist would have written, and you didn't know what was in that. Actually, I just wanted to mention things around here from a different perspective (you will keep getting different perspectives to see the things as long as I'm here).

 

This is also true that Females had been abusing their male partners in the entire history, but those actions were not been taken seriously.

 

Now, let's end this 'Female over Male' and 'Male over Female' abuse talk. I didn't want to start this 'Genderism' myself. The basic thing we should remember that when we are talking about 'Abuse' we should think it 'Genderless'. Any of the parties can be abusers and victims. When we are trying to help someone, we should really help them. Nowadays, in the internet era, we are all connected. Media is too powerful. We can find out the ways to help others in a fast method.

 

It's good to see that here we have so many people with good research on such topics. I joined this board just few days ago, and I found a post by a girl who was being abused by her parents. I didn't see any real help to her (the post was few weeks old). I really felt sorry for her, and didn't know what to do. At least someone could direct her to a good portal/number from where she could get help.

 

I hope we can help our society in a better way.

 

Thanks.

 

Zakfar.

Edited April 12, 2011 by zakfar

[betterdeal]

The point of my post was not about who abuses who, it was about whether both people are to blame for the abuse.

 

It's the attempt to blame one party for the mess that perpetuates it in most cases. In most cases, the abusive behaviour is for wont of a better way to honour ones own feelings. And in most cases, both parties are desperately unhappy and therefore both "victims".

 

Using loaded labels such as "abuser" and "victim" often does not help either change their ways. When both parties are healed, have let go of pent up feelings, recognised the harm they have caused, dealt with the unfinished business, changed their thought patters, learnt better ways to represent themselves without chronically encroaching on someone else's physical, financial, emotional, psychological, societal space, they become survivors of abuse.

 

This is not to say they aren't cases of a messed up person meeting a clear-headed person and harming them, and so leading them onto becoming unstable and more likely to be abusive and abused in the future as a result. But in most cases, it takes two to tango and the Rhianna / Chris Brown relationship is a very public representation of two people who abuse each other.

[LittleTiger]

LittleTiger, no worries. From your later responses it looks like you copy/pasted some material in the first post from somewhere a typical Feminist would have written, and you didn't know what was in that. Actually, I just wanted to mention things around here from a different perspective (you will keep getting different perspectives to see the things as long as I'm here).

 

Thanks for your reply zakfar. At the risk of making myself sound like a typical feminist (which I'm really not), I would like to point out that I am a highly intelligent, very well educated and, hopefully, articulate woman and nothing that I have written on LS or anywhere else is copied or pasted. Plagiarism really isn't my style.

 

If you hang around here for a while, you'll see that I do have very strong opinions about things, but I'm usually more than happy to back down and admit I may be wrong or uninformed about the other side of an argument, if a reasonable case is presented. There are, I admit, rare times when I won't back down, but this isn't one of them.

 

My original post was based, as I said easier, on my own experience of abuse and what I have read about men abusing women completely backs up my personal experience. So, as feminist as it may have come across, it was all my own thoughts and words.

 

I admit that I have no prior knowledge or personal experience of women abusing men, other than being aware that it happens, so I suppose my post was bound to come across one-sided. Had I tried to present it as 'this is what happens in all abusive relationships', an abused man such as betterdeal could have been offended by that too because I am clearly ignorant of that dynamic.

 

However, I'm pleased that I posted the topic and grateful to everyone who has responded on this thread. You've all helped to expand my knowledge of the subject from a different viewpoint.