Relationship counseling, retreats, workshops, etc.

[Zapbasket]

When both you and your partner agree that you need some outside help dealing with communication issues that are undermining your relationship, where do you turn?

 

I live in a rural area that's not without resources...but the area is notoriously lacking in mental health or good counseling options. There are not many highly trained mental health / marital counseling practitioners in this area. (I know this from my recent job here at a mental health center.)

 

My boyfriend and I have been together for a year. I've posted most recently about our relationship here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t266670/. I have felt many times like I should end the relationship because it seems at times we could never make one another happy. But something has perpetually kept me from going through with it. I am close with my boyfriend's mother and this past weekend I confided very openly to her all the issues I experience with her son. She is a wonderful person and was very judicious and receptive and suggested that we both are struggling with some past baggage and trust issues on both sides are blocking our communication and have us in a rut. She thinks we haven't quite given it our all, assured me it's natural for me to have doubts, and assured me that he genuinely does love me, wants a future with me, and has told her he feels he can never get it right with me. (He has told me the same, and all the things I told her I have told him, as well.)

 

He is the first serious boyfriend I've had who hasn't just cut and bailed in the thick of problems. To me that counts for a lot. I would like for us to really take a hard look at our relationship together, with help, and to get help in learning how each of us can be a better partner to the other as well as just better in intimacy in general. I see certain patterns that I contribute that I first discovered in previous relationships, and I want to stop those patterns. I'm open to the possibility that my boyfriend may discover that we are not right for each other, as well as the possibility that once we candidly examine our relationship and how we each contribute to the communication rut we've been in, all the good things about him and our relationship that have kept me in it for a full year will finally be able to bloom. I feel okay with either possibility. I just want to know that I can go forward in my life either way as a stronger, more intimate person.

 

My boyfriend is open to this exploration, as well; it's just that neither of us know where to go. Money is tight for us both right now and as I said, our options are somewhat slim where we live.

 

What experiences have you all had? Do relationship workshops / retreats work? What about choosing and studying a few relationship books together that seem to address some of the problems we've been having?

[betterdeal]

The books I liked are

 

The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing

 

and

 

The Complete Idiot's Guide to a Healthy Relationship

 

I recommend you consider these.

[PinkInTheLimo]

GreenCove, I think your boyfriend is abusive and therefore I don't think couples counseling is a good solution for you. It will only make YOU do more efforts and he will have you where he wants you to be.

I think he (and maybe you) need individual counseling.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for the recommendations, Betterdeal.

 

Pink, I agree that the teasing without respecting my limits is abusive behavior. I really laid down the line with him a week or so ago, e.g., "Your continual antagonism is not something I can tolerate any longer and I am seriously considering parting ways with you over it." He was stricken and said he recognizes these antagonistic tendencies and doesn't know why he does it. He said he sees how it creates problems in that it puts me on the defensive such that even when he's not being antagonistic I am on the defensive in preparation for what I've come to feel is the inevitable teasing just around the corner.

 

He also admitted that, "I often feel competitive with you." Outwardly I come across as a very take-charge, driven, intense kind of person and I have struggled since my early teens with people who feel a need to try to push me down. It hurts, because my intentions are kind. As the years go by I try to get ever-better at sloughing it off; even so, I'd be lying if I said I didn't find it hurtful deep down.

 

It's not that I think it's my fault that my boyfriend feels competitive with me and expresses it through antagonism over little things...but I do take responsibility for the fact that in getting visibly upset by it I'm essentially giving him exactly what he wants (and others who are that way with me). I know I need to toughen up in this regard and learn to refuse to reward that behavior by getting upset over it. And I need help in learning how. Whenever someone's competitiveness towards me has overridden their liking of me, I feel betrayed, and very alone.

 

I am hoping that some kind of counseling or outside help will enable me to discover which is more important to my boyfriend--deepening a warm, supportive relationship with me or competing with and being antagonistic towards me. Many of his behaviors indicate it's the former. That would be awesome and I want to learn how to foster that and not get caught up in the drama of the other. Even if this relationship were not to ultimately be right for me (and I have my doubts) long-term, I won't consider the time spent with him a waste if I can learn this lesson.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I've read this thread, and skimmed over your previous thread, and just want to say first of all that, in my perception, you will be carrying the majority of the weight in this relationship for its duration. I don't ever see it being 50/50 - from the picture you paint; he seems to lack the self confidence and maturity to be handle the work it takes to make a relationship a win/win. You will be the one bringing up issues and taking notes and trying to improve the relationship. That in itself is a lot to think about there; I believe it can work in marriage, but you must go in with your eyes wide open knowing that you will have to give and sacrifice, etc.

 

Beyond that, I wanted to give you input with a weekend retreat that I think very highly of. It is designed for married couples, but the conference my wife and I attended had 300 couples, with relationship durations ranging from 50 years together down to newlyweds and even engaged couples. I see no reason why you couldn't attend if you wanted to. You can even call family life and discuss that with them before signing up.

http://www.familylife.com/site/c.dnJHKLNnFoG/b.5846045/k.8C0A/Weekend_to_Remember__Marriage_Getaway.htm?fromhp=WTRstatic

Be aware that it is a Christian based couples weekend. It begins Friday afternoon, and goes through Sunday afternoon, with a lot of time spent away from the conference. Unless you select one of their more exotic locales, it's basically just in a large hotel conference room, nothing special or luxurious (not really a retreat by any means). The main focus is the relationship, expectations, being a couple, respecting one another, etc. The speakers and literature addresses many common issues in marriage today. I can honestly say that most couples grew closer as a result of the conference. My wife and I argued for a good portion of it. In retrospect that may have been because we realized how wrong we had done certain things in the past. It was effective, but would have been more so if we hadn't been upset with one another during the conference. It actually seemed as if many couples were in a tough place. We definitely plan to attend again, and this time keep clear minds and hearts. . .

[PinkInTheLimo]

It's not that I think it's my fault that my boyfriend feels competitive with me and expresses it through antagonism over little things...but I do take responsibility for the fact that in getting visibly upset by it I'm essentially giving him exactly what he wants (and others who are that way with me). I know I need to toughen up in this regard and learn to refuse to reward that behavior by getting upset over it. And I need help in learning how. Whenever someone's competitiveness towards me has overridden their liking of me, I feel betrayed, and very alone.

 

If he displays rotten behaviour, it is normal that you get upset. This behaviour is not normal behaviour of someone who loves you.

 

You lay too much blame with yourself. I recognize that, have done it myself in the past, have still a tendency to do it.

I think you are afraid to fail at yet another relationship but honestly, ending this relationship will make you stronger because it means that you are convinced that you deserve better.

[Zapbasket]

Pink and She's Not in Love, everything you say--about it never being fully 50/50 with me carrying more of the burden; about my being afraid to fail and thus afraid to end things--hits a powerful chord of truth with me as I have those exact same thoughts.

 

I have never once felt comfortable or safe in this relationship. At the same time, I see the goodness in my boyfriend and his family, especially his mother, is genuinely kind, caring, quality people. He does reflect a lot of that goodness in addition to all the negative things I've mentioned in my threads.

 

I am new to this area and my lifestyle is very different than what I had back on the east coast. I am constantly making adjustments and it leaves a lot of things in the fog in terms of where I will end up next. I am in a very transitional space mentally and emotionally and it seems my boyfriend is, as well, as his career is on hold while he finishes writing a book about his ranching roots in this state. I think both of our current positions build a lot of uncertainty into our relationship and its prospects.

 

In my gut I do feel I deserve better, and am capable of attracting "better." I see areas I need to work on and I have no illusions about being some kind of ideal girlfriend. I am a kind, caring, talented, attractive, loyal person with many imperfections. I do get that.

 

But: this is boyfriend #3 in a row where I felt like I was carrying more of the burden and blame than was fair, and where I felt he lacked the maturity to be a truly reliable partner long-term. Evidently I need to learn how and why I keep ending up in relationships like this. Pink, you are right that I am very hard on myself, hate to fail, and am always looking at how I can improve at everything I do. So that's one thing I can work on.

 

I feel stuck, however, because to be honest I have yet to meet a man who does strike me as having the depth and maturity to be the kind of partner I would like long-term. My family provided poor examples; my mother was SOOOO much more than my step-father and apparently my biological father was an incredible person, husband and father but he died when I was two. So where can I go from here? How can I leave what I have now when I have yet to meet "better"? If this relationship can teach me how to attract that kind of man, then it will have been a very worthwhile relationship--regardless of whether it's my current boyfriend who becomes that man through our work together, or whether I must leave the current boyfriend to find that man.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

In my gut I do feel I deserve better, and am capable of attracting "better." I see areas I need to work on and I have no illusions about being some kind of ideal girlfriend. I am a kind, caring, talented, attractive, loyal person with many imperfections. I do get that.

 

IMHO, this thinking hurts the relationship. It is a indication of high self esteem, but once in a committed long term relationship, there is no place for an ‘I can do better.’ Deserve better with your current partner is very different from attracting better than him…

 

But: this is boyfriend #3 in a row where I felt like I was carrying more of the burden and blame than was fair, and where I felt he lacked the maturity to be a truly reliable partner long-term. Evidently I need to learn how and why I keep ending up in relationships like this.

 

Either, you are an emotionally mature person for your age, or you are selecting the wrong partners, or perhaps both. It is important that if you should move on from this relationship, you determine EXACTLY why you are attracted to those guys and what you can do to change that. In my opinion that happens best in good mental health sessions with the right practitioner.

 

I feel stuck, however, because to be honest I have yet to meet a man who does strike me as having the depth and maturity to be the kind of partner I would like long-term. My family provided poor examples; my mother was SOOOO much more than my step-father and apparently my biological father was an incredible person, husband and father but he died when I was two. So where can I go from here? How can I leave what I have now when I have yet to meet "better"? If this relationship can teach me how to attract that kind of man, then it will have been a very worthwhile relationship--regardless of whether it's my current boyfriend who becomes that man through our work together, or whether I must leave the current boyfriend to find that man.

 

Again, feeling stuck is absolutely no way to go on in a LTR. Perhaps we all feel a little stuck sometimes, don’t get me wrong; you just need to work to correct that. All relationships involve negotiation and work to get right. Many require constant attention, and still are productive and beneficial to both parties involved.

 

If you do choose to leave your current partner, the only correct way to do that is to sever completely from him, remain on your own for some period of time, and once you have addressed your personal concerns and issues through counseling, then approach the possibility of being open to another relationship again. Any other way is unfair to you and or others involved…

[Zapbasket]

IMHO' date=' this thinking hurts the relationship. It is a indication of high self esteem, but once in a committed long term relationship, there is no place for an ‘I can do better.’ Deserve better with your current partner is very different from attracting better than him…[/quote']

 

You are absolutely right and I need to look hard at that. Truth is, I feel both ways--both that WE both deserve better together in this relationship, AND that *I* deserve better than someone still so immature as to tease about things that he knows matter deeply to me. I go back and forth between these two attitudes, and what's most confusing is that often I feel both ways at once.

 

I find myself wondering whether it's possible to start out in an "immature" relationship, meaning, where both parties struggle to manage past baggage in their communications with one another...and then together grow it into a more mature, healthy relationship before marriage. This, as opposed to making relationship problems out to be one person who is the "immature" one in relation to the other person as "the more mature" one. I feel there's no point in cutting people out of your life as long as at least a few things are good in the relationship, until you understand what YOU contribute to the dynamics you don't like. That's one reason why despite MANY temptations to end this relationship I have not. I don't want to end this one only to find myself in another relationship where I end up feeling I am carrying more of the weight.

 

All I know is that I find myself wishing with all my heart that I could finally meet that man who is smitten by me, polite and respectful towards me, caring and attentive to me without any conflict about expressing those things. I love romance but I don't require huge daily gestures of it; mainly I want someone to treat me as a dear, cherished friend towards whom he also feels a passionate attraction. Someone who feels inspired on their own accord to feel protective of me without my ever having to ask for it. Having never met this man, I'm unsure whether what I'm hoping for is even possible. I just want someone who feels the same drive for personal integrity and caring that I feel I possess in myself. Is that too much to hope for? My instincts say, "No."

 

But then I wonder whether perhaps that kind of partner is CREATED out of mutual efforts in a relationship, rather than just THERE from the get-go and all of their own accord.

 

Perhaps it all goes back to knowing and exercising good boundaries. I don't know what is acceptable to expect and ask for, and I need help learning what is. I just don't know where to go at this point.

 

 

Either, you are an emotionally mature person for your age, or you are selecting the wrong partners, or perhaps both. It is important that if you should move on from this relationship, you determine EXACTLY why you are attracted to those guys and what you can do to change that. In my opinion that happens best in good mental health sessions with the right practitioner.

 

But how to find the right practitioner. I know how hard it is, and how easy it is to drain money to someone who seemingly has all the right credentials but in fact is inept and non-perceptive in sessions. I've been to a lot of therapy over the years and wonder at this point whether it's time I try a different approach. Couples counseling, workshops, etc.

[betterdeal]

It sounds like you two have pretty good communication and it's a very good sign that he's talking about his negative feelings (feeling competitive) and is open to trying out new things to iron out the creases between you. The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging there is one!

 

I have a picture of you as a quite an assertive person and him as quite a passive person. Is that a fair assessment?

 

His passive-aggressive behaviour (snide remarks) is probably for lack of knowing how to represent himself more assertively, but it's hard for me to assess whether that's the case without hearing his side of the story.

 

Again, I'm guessing here, but your assertiveness may come across as aggressive if it's intense / you don't give enough space for the other person to respond at a pace they are comfortable with and, at times, maybe you do rattle through your point of view with a subconscious intention to avoid hearing the other person's argument.

 

Rather than thinking in terms of competition or doing better than him, think about working on both your communication skills as fine tuning. Whether or not you stay a couple, better communication skills are useful throughout your lives.

 

As you've identified, a trustworthy third party will probably be helpful in exploring this. One of the main benefits of couples counselling is, in my opinion, that both people are expressing their opinions, thoughts, feelings, desires etc in front of a third party. People tend to speak with more clarity and be more patient when a stranger is listening.

 

By being clear, timely and patient with one another is how we solve most problems. Add a dash of optimistic and you have healthy communication.

 

When we have a relationship with someone and a back story with them, we might assume lots of information can go unsaid, or if we have been ruminating over some issue, we may have had the conversation with our internal representation of them several times already but only in our head. Thing is, none of us are mind-readers, so what comes out externally can come across as really weird to the other person. Having to make it clear to the counsellor actually helps us to make it clear to our partner.

 

I don't know where you are in the world, but Relate here in the UK offers free relationship counselling. I'm sure there are similar charities stateside and elsewhere. My feeling is that trying one of these, which is a day-service rather than a full-blown week away retreat will be cheaper (in terms of money and time) and may give you the audience you guys need to start developing that healthy communication.

 

I also recommend your fella has a look into assertiveness training. Too Nice for Your Own Good: How to Stop Making 9 Self-Sabotaging Mistakes is a good book on this. You would do no harm in reading it yourself too!

Edited April 13, 2011 by betterdeal

[sunshinegirl]

Hi GreenCove!

 

I spent time with a therapist, who was helpful, but I would also say that three books really made a big difference for me. It might have been that I was "ready" to hear the message in each one thanks to the work I did with a therapist, but it may also be that somehow these books just spoke to me in a way that the loads of other self-help books I had read (or my therapist) didn't. So here they are (and this is the order in which I read them)(over a period of months, not one after the other):

 

Women Who Love Too Much (When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He'll Change) by Robin Norwood

 

Temptations of the Single Girl: The Ten Dating Traps You Must Avoid

by Nina Atwood

 

Steering by Starlight: Find Your Right Life, No Matter What! by Martha Beck

 

All three titles are for YOU, dear GC, as I am more interested in you finding (rediscovering?) your centered, confident self that has clearer boundaries than anything else.

 

Good luck!!

[Zapbasket]

Betterdeal, he's not passive. Nor would I call him assertive, per se. When you meet him, the face he presents to the outside world at large is of someone very friendly, open, familiar, and conversational. In the relationship with me he has moments of that, but from the beginning he's been much more on-guard, defensive, antagonistic and shut off than I've ever seen him with anyone else except people he openly dislikes. When he's been "gregarious" with me, it's been in the context of his teasing. For a while I dreaded going out socializing with him because his friendly social face was such a contrast to what he typically shows me.

 

My read on him is that he's never had an intimate relationship before, particularly not with a woman. He's had several girlfriends, but not since his girlfriend in college did he ever feel "in love" and like there was a future. (Except with me.) He also has struck me from the beginning as a very, very insecure person.

 

But I can't help feeling that labeling someone as "insecure" is such a cop-out. I mean, we're all insecure and when we are intimate with someone we will see more of their insecurities than if we were a mere casual acquaintance. Heck, I've been a mess the past couple of days as undermining and competitiveness from some people at work has really gotten under my skin. That's MY insecurity. So how can I dismiss someone as "insecure"? Even so, what I view as my boyfriend's insecurity contributes to the feeling of non-safety I have in being with him: I feel deep down he's much, much more competitive with me than he'd ever let on, and that therefore he'll only ever feel joy in my accomplishments if he, too, has accomplishments on a par with mine.

[Zapbasket]

Sunshinegirl, thanks. I think with moving out here and the somewhat ignominious manner of trials I endured in getting settled just shook up my equilibrium. And the things I'm involved in are so different from things I've done before, in many ways, and it all contributes to making me feel uncertain. I know that's some of what's at play here for me and I think I need to keep working to get my mojo back; hopefully your books will help!

 

I also have just never felt so much spidey sense against a relationship as I have felt against this one. I just don't feel comfortable; I feel as though I am always a shortcoming in my boyfriend's eyes...and I know it should not feel that way. I'm hoping that maybe it's a good sign that even if I don't have any answers yet, at least I'm beginning to ask the right questions.

[betterdeal]

Betterdeal, he's not passive. Nor would I call him assertive, per se. When you meet him, the face he presents to the outside world at large is of someone very friendly, open, familiar, and conversational. In the relationship with me he has moments of that, but from the beginning he's been much more on-guard, defensive, antagonistic and shut off than I've ever seen him with anyone else except people he openly dislikes. When he's been "gregarious" with me, it's been in the context of his teasing. For a while I dreaded going out socializing with him because his friendly social face was such a contrast to what he typically shows me.

 

It sounds frustrating for you.

 

Your first paragraph fits with my thoughts that he can learn how to work with his emotions and express them, his needs, desires etc better.

 

What you experience as competitiveness and indirect negative words (sarcasm, bad jokes, snide remarks, teasing) from him are probably the best he can express his feelings at present. Does he have problems accepting praise from you too, perchance?

 

Being inexperienced and uneducated is something that can be remedied by, well, experience and education. Obviously, it's your call as to how much you will invest in learning together, and your feelings have to be your first priority, but picking up a copy of that book I recommended would a way to start.

 

In his mind, he sees himself as a nice person. And he is, just as we all are. Just that some of us are better equipped to be nice on the outside too. Part of that is knowing your own feelings, limits, boundaries, and representing them clearly, and positively.

 

His competitiveness thing annoys you, and you want him to stop seeing you as a competitor. So you'd say something like

 

I've been thinking about what you said about feeling competitive with me. I like that you're sharing you feelings with me and I'd like you to continue with that. However, I dislike being thought of as a competitor. I see us as partners, working together for mutual benefit, rather than one-up-man-ship. If we're not, what's the point? I'd like you to rethink that idea, maybe read up on relationships, take some time, and let me know how you think we can turn this into a growth point in our relationship.

 

Does that make sense / ring accord?