Why can't I stop thinking about this?

[welikeincrowds]

reading this made me miss my ex...glad you're better though

 

Look, ilovedhim, don't even think of bringing him into my thread.

 

Just kidding.

 

Speaking of which, some days I can't turn on the tv or look at a blog without seeing something that reminds me of her. Still. And if she called me today and asked me to go out on a romantic date, I would definitely say no, but 80% of me would also want to say no. Isn't that weird? But all that I have left with this thing are feelings of inadequacy and the fantasy of who she was, and I'm fighting back on both.

 

So I keep reading or watching or whatever it is, and it seems to be working out. You know what else? I now hunt for, wear, learn about, and appreciate jewelry. Noticing and admiring the subtlety of all the jewelry women wear is nice. She had a ring on every finger, and it made holding her hand feel special. So rather than let her steal jewelry from me as something that can only be special about her, I instead now realize how special jewelry is in general, and one more thing to notice about how a woman presents herself in a particular, personal way.

 

So, that's it. I don't want a stupid memory of her ruin something else for me. Saying that out loud sounds like it's expressing more power than I actually have, but the baby steps seem to be working. I'm embarrassed that I apparently need to take all these baby steps, but they're working.

[bolase]

Thanks for this thread, the OP, the responses, so much love!

 

It actually reminds me of the relationship I had with a guy who looked up to me on a similar level, and who worried about sucking in bed with me, while all along I felt that he wasn't THAT into me, but the idea - he wanted me to inspire him and validate him, take the edge off his work stress and yet kept expecting that I wouldn't just accept him for who he was (I did). Looking back, we are still friends, we were beforehand, and I feel only good about it. Try to be her friend, if you are interested in her as one OP. She might be immature or she might just be trying to make sense of it all. Be clear that you don't want more from her, and see what you get back.

[betterdeal]

Yep, it's the trying too hard that ruins things. Trying to be someone we're not, trying to impress someone too much, trying too make everything perfect. When I look back on my last relationship, we were both trying too much.

[welikeincrowds]

Trying to be someone we're not, trying to impress someone too much, trying too make everything perfect.

 

This is so dead on, because I struggle with perfectionism in places where I feel I am being judged. It gets in the way of everything, it seems....

 

I just have to keep focusing on being real and listening to my desires. It's amazing how hard that is after a long history of nay-saying and auto-piloting through life.

 

Try to be her friend, if you are interested in her as one OP.

Hmmm... maybe I should! I tried already but I guess it was too soon. Once I'm certain I'm on two feet I'll write her an email or something.

[Kamille]

Yep, it's the trying too hard that ruins things. Trying to be someone we're not, trying to impress someone too much, trying too make everything perfect.

 

This is so dead on, because I struggle with perfectionism in places where I feel I am being judged.

 

 

Oh how I can relate, yet again. It's really tough to conquer those instincts. I have some idea, thanks to therapy, as to why I grew up feeling like all negative jusgements proved I was deficient and why perfection was the best way to avoid negative judgements. How I have cried over spilled milk! (spilling milk, in my family, was considered an offense, a sign I wasn't paying attention, etc.) I was raised to believe social acceptance only comes at the expense of being beyond reproach. Not to mention, being average was out of the question according to my parents. They believed that I was "better" than all of the other kids. I had to be exceptional. (I think their "my kid is exceptional" philosophy is actually pretty common among their generation.)

 

Somehow, that has translated into me feeling that I have to do more than everyone else in order to be worthy of social acceptance.

 

I'm learning to step away from those instincts. Humor has played a great part, therapy another and, oddly, living in a foreign country, where the mentality is different, is probably what helped me learn to relax the most. In that country, there has been, for historical reasons, a huge discourse about solidarity and human dignity. In everyday life, this translates into people accepting each other just by virtue of being there. It's hard to describe, but it was wonderful, and helped me realize the extent to which dignity is success-based in North America (and perhaps the UK, I'm not sure...)

[welikeincrowds]

I'm learning to step away from those instincts. Humor has played a great part, therapy another and, oddly, living in a foreign country, where the mentality is different, is probably what helped me learn to relax the most. In that country, there has been, for historical reasons, a huge discourse about solidarity and human dignity. In everyday life, this translates into people accepting each other just by virtue of being there. It's hard to describe, but it was wonderful, and helped me realize the extent to which dignity is success-based in North America (and perhaps the UK, I'm not sure...)

 

Hm. Maybe I should move to another country.

 

I've been dealing with perfectionism all my life! It is a problem that has been cruel to my psyche, toward which I have not made much progress (maybe I have, but I wouldn't know, being a perfectionist!).

 

The strange thing about perfectionism is that it does not necessarily equate to anal-retention. Because I deal with the world relatively spontaneously, I have developed a tendency, from fear, to procrastinate and avoid. It's such an ironic effect of perfectionism, isn't it?

 

But although that's the primary manifestation of my problem in my daily life, it's not one that obviously extends to relationships, except in specific circumstances. (My reluctance to end this relationship even though I sensed it was not right? It might fall in the perfectionism spectrum of causes, as it seems all things do, but it may very well not. I'm not sure how to place it.)

 

However, one thing I've realized in myself lately is how not a catch I consider myself. I used to think the exact opposite, that any girl I would be interested in would love to date me (and oh, how much happier I was then!). Maybe it's the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

I realize that the most attractive thing is confidence; and conversely, the most unattractive thing is a lack of confidence. But it never occurred to me how ****ed-up my perspective is, until I realize how ****ed-up my perspective is. (It never occurred to me how bad things had gotten until I remembered the language I used to use to refer to myself by -- "a catch".)

 

This has got to be parallel to perfectionism. I have no internalized frame of reference, no idea of my actual worth, either objective or relative to what or whom I find important; I only know what I wish I was and aspire to be, in an abstract sense (as per the usual with me).

 

A funny thing is, the things that are probably helping me the most in this regard -- going the gym, or my interest in personal style -- are only marginally affected by my perfectionism, in the indirect way that all things I do are (unlike, for instance, my line of work, in which I am utterly dominated by my perfectionism). I wear the things I wear and lift the weights I lift ultimately because I just like to. It's some of the most honest, enjoyable, loving things I do for myself; in a smaller way, I should include poetry writing, which I keep close and guarded, almost like a young parent, although certainly being a creative effort, my tendencies creep in. But in all other places -- including dating, apparently -- I guess I treat myself like absolute ****. I guess so. I don't know!

 

I guess if I treated everyone else the way I treated myself, man... well, I'd probably be the inspiration for half the threads in the dating section. Maybe. I don't know!

 

Maybe I should move to another country; or maybe I should just enter therapy.

 

Again. God... dammit.

[threebyfate]

It sounds like you've historically measured your self-worth using an external barometer. Absent that external barometer, through rejection of it, you've lost your way about who you are.

 

How about starting with your values and rebuild from there? Do you have any values you treasure? Are there any values you're willing to stand up for?

[dreamingoftigers]

This is so dead on, because I struggle with perfectionism in places where I feel I am being judged. It gets in the way of everything, it seems....

 

I just have to keep focusing on being real and listening to my desires. It's amazing how hard that is after a long history of nay-saying and auto-piloting through life.

 

Hmmm... maybe I should! I tried already but I guess it was too soon. Once I'm certain I'm on two feet I'll write her an email or something.

 

Oh how I can relate, yet again. It's really tough to conquer those instincts. I have some idea, thanks to therapy, as to why I grew up feeling like all negative jusgements proved I was deficient and why perfection was the best way to avoid negative judgements. How I have cried over spilled milk! (spilling milk, in my family, was considered an offense, a sign I wasn't paying attention, etc.) I was raised to believe social acceptance only comes at the expense of being beyond reproach. Not to mention, being average was out of the question according to my parents. They believed that I was "better" than all of the other kids. I had to be exceptional. (I think their "my kid is exceptional" philosophy is actually pretty common among their generation.)

 

Somehow, that has translated into me feeling that I have to do more than everyone else in order to be worthy of social acceptance.

 

I'm learning to step away from those instincts. Humor has played a great part, therapy another and, oddly, living in a foreign country, where the mentality is different, is probably what helped me learn to relax the most. In that country, there has been, for historical reasons, a huge discourse about solidarity and human dignity. In everyday life, this translates into people accepting each other just by virtue of being there. It's hard to describe, but it was wonderful, and helped me realize the extent to which dignity is success-based in North America (and perhaps the UK, I'm not sure...)

 

Ladies and gentlemen, perfectionism is actually the enemy of happiness.

 

I have a GREAT recommended read for you guys

 

Being Happy by Tal Ben-Shahar.

 

:):):)

[welikeincrowds]

It sounds like you've historically measured your self-worth using an external barometer. Absent that external barometer, through rejection of it, you've lost your way about who you are.

 

How about starting with your values and rebuild from there? Do you have any values you treasure? Are there any values you're willing to stand up for?

 

These to me are difficult questions which require some reflection before I can answer. In the meantime, would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "values"?

 

 

Ladies and gentlemen, perfectionism is actually the enemy of happiness.

 

I have a GREAT recommended read for you guys

 

Being Happy by Tal Ben-Shahar.

 

:):):)

 

Thank you, I will definitely look into it. I may need something like it more than Kamille seems to, though -- I wouldn't want to lump her in with my problem.

[dreamingoftigers]

These to me are difficult questions which require some reflection before I can answer. In the meantime, would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "values"?

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I will definitely look into it. I may need something like it more than Kamille seems to, though -- I wouldn't want to lump her in with my problem.

 

Everyone should read it anyways, even just for a different academic perspective.

[threebyfate]

These to me are difficult questions which require some reflection before I can answer. In the meantime, would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "values"?

What matters to you? Do you have a passion for justice? Possibly for compassion and mercy? Do you believe that children need to be protected? What do you believe in?

 

Once you've defined some of your priority values since defining all would probably take a life time, what can you do to realize some or all of these values, to enrich your life as well as provide you with more of an identity?

 

Keep in mind that whatever you choose to do, must factor in whether there's an element of external barometer measure or not. Something within me is guessing that external measure is necessary to your sense of balance.

[welikeincrowds]

What matters to you?

 

Something within me is guessing that external measure is necessary to your sense of balance.

 

I've been ruminating on my response. I went everywhere with this: childhood, my relationship to my parents, significant events in my adolescence, past relationships, my career path.

 

Your line of questioning resonated with me. I had completely lost sight of my values. It's probably a significant reason this last dating debacle transpired as it did. I had no frame of reference for our relationship.

 

I believe I've come up with my primary value and governing passion, under which almost all other values can be inherited: self-improvement.

 

Maybe that sounds tautological, but I figure that it's a value; God knows I've met many for whom self-improvement is not a fundamental priority.

 

One can quickly see how that can complicate a sense of security. That value can lead to a) never being satisfied, and b) allowing for others' judgments to be evaluating criteria.

 

I suppose my charge is to learn how to healthily and realistically approach this thing which dictates my happiness and self-esteem.

 

On an unrelated tangent, I had another insight that I am going to jot down here for posterity. I have a lot of "mothers" in my life. I have my mother, but I also have my personal trainer, and my manager. It may explain why I am so comfortable here (at LoveShack). I don't know what that means precisely, but I found it curious, especially because I am very wary of (and frightened by, resistant to) the idea that I'd like to find my mother (or a mother) in a lover. I just don't know what to make of it all.

[threebyfate]

Every individual has their own values so you'll get no judgement from me.

 

But I will ask this question. If self-improvement is your top priority, what traits will you need in a partner, in order to have a fulfilling and functional relationship?

 

A LOT of people are resistant to the idea that foundation plays a huge part of how we envision and handle our relationships. But if they step back and objectively view the parent/child dynamic, how do children learn about life?

 

Children learn two ways about life. By osmosis and active learning. It's not such a stretch that people want to recreate what they're comfortable with or know, in patterns of relationships and environments.

 

If your relationship was healthy with your mother, is it so awful that you might be looking for someone like her?

 

If the relationship wasn't healthy, then it's time to break free of its pattern.

 

From what I've observed, most people aren't insightful enough to break free, rather recreate it for comfort or recreate it to fix it.

 

Btw, my husband is a lot like but not identical to my father who was always and still is my hero. Now I have two heroes and if you count our little ray of sunshine, three heroes!

 

My husband was raised in similar fashion so our marriage is similar to my and his parents' relationships. The differences are that I'm not my mother, sitting somewhere in personality between parents, albeit lean towards my mother's less malleable personality. H. sits somewhere between his parent's too, where he's a bit less stoic than his father, more comfortable with emotive language and expression.

 

In my opinion, Freud has much to answer for, in his negative characterizations of the impact of foundational relationships, in that he tacked on his usual sexual references to everything. Serious sexual issues anyone?

[welikeincrowds]

But I will ask this question. If self-improvement is your top priority, what traits will you need in a partner, in order to have a fulfilling and functional relationship?

 

Well, drawing from the priority value (this is an illuminating exercise), there's two characteristics that seem to stand out.

 

The first is that the partnership would be best as a source of mutual inspiration. Thus my SO would probably need to possess curiosity, passion, focused devotion.

 

The second is that the partnership would be a source of mutual support.

 

The mutual part is important; not to be PC about relationship dynamics, or because of some naive truism, but for selfish reasons. Naturally I would desire to be a trusted resource for my partner. If I did not have this outlet -- particularly if I felt I were not sought, or heard when asked -- I would feel unimportant to my partner and in the relationship.

 

 

If your relationship was healthy with your mother, is it so awful that you might be looking for someone like her?

You know, you're right, it's not. In fact I should be so lucky to meet someone like my mother.

 

It's just that I am afraid of this:

 

most people... rather recreate it for comfort or recreate it to fix it.

And it's not the relationship between her and me I'm worried about, it's the relationship between her and my father.

 

You would not believe the superhero fantasies I had as a child! (OK, what boy doesn't.)

 

I have a habit of getting together with broken and/or crazy women, or unavailable women, essentially switching between acting out either my mother or my father.

 

But that's not even the problem right now. I'm one step behind where I need to be in order to even get that far. Because to be able do that whisking away and saving, I need to be a superhero, and lately, I have not felt that way.

 

This is a horrific pattern. It's difficult to challenge, conquer, circumvent. The desire for self-improvement can be a desire to break free from it as much as it can be the desire to manifest it. In that way it's some God-given free will ****, really, if you think about it.

 

Hey, thanks for doing this with me, I realize this has gotten really personal and self-indulgent and helpful to exactly 0 other people reading this forum.

[threebyfate]

Well, drawing from the priority value (this is an illuminating exercise), there's two characteristics that seem to stand out.

 

The first is that the partnership would be best as a source of mutual inspiration. Thus my SO would probably need to possess curiosity, passion, focused devotion.

 

The second is that the partnership would be a source of mutual support.

 

The mutual part is important; not to be PC about relationship dynamics, or because of some naive truism, but for selfish reasons. Naturally I would desire to be a trusted resource for my partner. If I did not have this outlet -- particularly if I felt I were not sought, or heard when asked -- I would feel unimportant to my partner and in the relationship.

Awesome! Sounds like you've thought it through. That was exactly the type of person I would have picked as your partner.

 

 

You know, you're right, it's not. In fact I should be so lucky to meet someone like my mother.

 

It's just that I am afraid of this:

 

And it's not the relationship between her and me I'm worried about, it's the relationship between her and my father.

 

You would not believe the superhero fantasies I had as a child! (OK, what boy doesn't.)

 

I have a habit of getting together with broken and/or crazy women, or unavailable women, essentially switching between acting out either my mother or my father.

 

But that's not even the problem right now. I'm one step behind where I need to be in order to even get that far. Because to be able do that whisking away and saving, I need to be a superhero, and lately, I have not felt that way.

 

This is a horrific pattern. It's difficult to challenge, conquer, circumvent. The desire for self-improvement can be a desire to break free from it as much as it can be the desire to manifest it. In that way it's some God-given free will ****, really, if you think about it.

To feel good about yourself, it appears that you need a project. In the past, you've isolated this need to your partners. But it doesn't have to be relationship oriented. Can it not be a bigger picture project? One that not only you view as internally "good" but also is viewed by society as "good"? This way, you build internally, feed the need and also get fed using an external barometric measure.

 

As a small example of such, become a big brother. Or volunteer some of your time towards a charitable cause.

 

Hey, thanks for doing this with me, I realize this has gotten really personal and self-indulgent and helpful to exactly 0 other people reading this forum.

You're welcome although I only did the prompting. Telling you "how to" without you working through it yourself wouldn't have been any help at all since you're a free-thinker and would have bridled against the direction.

 

Straight up, you've been impressively honest and thoughtful. Self-insightful. You've got a helluva mind so never stop self-actualizing. Stagnation for you would be worse than death and having a stagnant partner holding you back, would be an exercise in futility.

 

As for others learning from this thread, I sincerely hope some will. Our foundation and experiences are what have moulded us into the people we are today. If root issues and causes can't be addressed, good luck trying to make any permanent changes.

[LikeCharlotte]

WLIC- Unfortunately I have nothing significant to add here as I have not been part of the conversation of this thread and wouldn't presume to jump in so late. I have watched it develop and while I do not post here as often as I once did, I am actively reading on LS. You are an incredible writer and when you decide to gauge your success as a human being using either the internal or external 'barometer' please consider my strange anonymous contribution.

[welikeincrowds]

WLIC- Unfortunately I have nothing significant to add here as I have not been part of the conversation of this thread and wouldn't presume to jump in so late. I have watched it develop and while I do not post here as often as I once did, I am actively reading on LS. You are an incredible writer and when you decide to gauge your success as a human being using either the internal or external 'barometer' please consider my strange anonymous contribution.

 

Wow, I will. Thank you

 

As a small example of such, become a big brother. Or volunteer some of your time towards a charitable cause.

 

You know, come to think of it, I've gotten this recommendation before. Maybe I should do this.

 

You've got a helluva mind so never stop self-actualizing.

 

Oh Christ, I won't ever stop, will I? Well, I suppose that's the problem with the unexamined life.

 

Thank you too

[bananarama]

Hey, thanks for doing this with me, I realize this has gotten really personal and self-indulgent and helpful to exactly 0 other people reading this forum.

 

I found this thread while searching my issues on google.

 

I registered to let you know there is at least 1 person out there who found this thread incredibly helpful. Your realizations are things I also needed to realize and reflection within is also what I need(ed) to do.

 

I finally feel a shift in the mindset I was stuck in, and I think now I can stop torturing myself.

 

Thanks to everyone who participated in this.

[MoreWaysThan1]

How do you get your control back from this? How can I un-convince myself that I am such an unattractive, sexual failure?

 

 

Durrrr....cause you attracted a girl who you considered attractive?

 

Trust me, the sex had nothing to do with what drove her away. It was your 'attitude' about yourself that did.

 

Work on your self-esteem and begin to have a healthy relationship to facts.

 

I still get pangs of self-hate about being ugly or unattractive...until I remember all of the girls I dated/had sex with that were hot. They obviously wanted me to screw them or they wouldn't have. That's a fact. People don't have sex with people they aren't interested in having sex with (unless they're prostitutes or insane). It's really simple but it's true.

 

So no matter what my brain (or anyone else for that matter) says, I know for a fact that I attract and have the ability to bang 'hot' women---and that's good enough for me.