Hoarders make the worst friends

[writergal]

After three years I just couldn't take her hoarding behavior and how it affected our friendship, so I ended my friendship with her over the phone. I wanted to end it in person by inviting her over for dinner to talk, but she refused to come over stating that she had to go home after work and take care of the 9 cats she currently fosters. She did that to me on my 40th birthday this year - using her cats as the reason she was one hour late to my birthday dinner. I was already on dessert by the time she arrived. When I tried to engage her in a conversation about our friendship, she refused to engage and kept talking about her cats. I cannot be friends with someone who is that disconnected. Gives me the creeps when I think about it. I have no idea how she can hold down a job.

 

We have one mutual friend who understands my decision but she has also been acted very aloof with me lately and I'm not sure why.

 

My friend's own family has shunned her for her hoarding behavior. The one time I went inside her house I had to leave because of the smell of rotting food, cat urine and cat dander from her 9 cats. Her car and her work cubicle are also full of clutter.

 

In the 3 years I've known her, she's refused to acknowledge her hoarding problem, even walking out of a counseling appointment set up by her mother who forced my friend to attend. Her own boyfriend won't go over to her house and his two children now live with their mother (his ex-wife) because he's allowed my friend's hoarding behavior to take over his home now since they started dating. I went over to his house once when they had a small dinner party and was shocked at how disorganized and messy it was.

 

Has anyone else been friends with a hoarder? What was your experience like? How did/do you handle that person?

[NoMagicBullet]

I'm not the group you want to hear from. I'm a hoarder, of sorts, learned from mom. For me it's not so much hoarding (acquiring and keeping things) as letting the clutter get out of control, and it goes along with stress & depression. I don't have the animal hoarding issue. Whole other deal. And if she is prone to animal hoarding, 9 cats is small potatoes.

 

I know firsthand that hoarding & clutter negatively affect relationships, if simply not being able to have people over because things aren't clean enough. However, I know have a problem and am trying to improve how I manage it. I try to not let it affect or even touch the people I care about. It's unfortunate that she won't recognize that she has a problem.

 

I sympathize that she was late to your birthday dinner and wouldn't talk about anything but her cats. It didn't have to be 9 cats, BTW -- she could have easily been obsessed with just one animal. Or anything else. Many parents are this way with their children, but such devotion and preoccupation would be considered normal.

 

But I have to ask: Is the hoarding really the source of the problems in the relationship? Apart from the dinner, how does it affect you? Would you have felt differently if she had arrived late to dinner because she had to do her daily workout at the gym or had some other activity that she wasn't going to temporarily put aside for the evening? Is it her treatment of you as a friend, or do you have a problem with the way she lives her life, even the parts of it that don't involve you? Are you ashamed of saying she's your friend?

 

No, it's not easy to be friends with a hoarder, but there are plenty of people who aren't easy to be friends with for any number of reasons. If you don't want to be friends with her for hoarding or any other reason, then don't. I understand you're venting here, but you haven't written anything about what good qualities she has or what you enjoy of the friendship you've had so far. It doesn't seem like you want to continue the friendship. I suspect the mutual friend (who's been aloof with you lately) might have better ideas on how to deal with it, if you do want to continue the friendship. But you can't change your hoarding friend's behavior.

[writergal]

Well from my experience with my friend, there is no grey area with hoarding. You either are a hoarder, or aren't. Not "of sorts." That's not hoarding as much as its general messiness.

 

My ex-friend is a full-blown hoarder. Her car is so full of garbage that she can't have passengers in it. She never cleans it out. Same with her cubicle. It's like a cubicle full of papers, files stacked from floor to top of the cubicle. Then her home. She has 9 cats currently, sometimes the number has been larger or smaller. Her kitchen is falling apart and resembles a garbage dump. You literally cannot see the floor. The last time I was there, there was rotting food in her kitchen sink, on the counters, in the refrigerator. The only clean area is her basement, don't ask me why. She compulsively shops on a daily basis, sometimes buying 3 to 4 of the same items and never gets rid of them. She goes to garage sales, buys things,and then leaves those items in her car. She is seriously ill, okay! Her family is completely normal - none are hoarders. So I have no idea where she developed this obsessive/compulsive hoarding behavior.

 

When I met her through mutual friends 3 years ago, she seemed totally normal to me and had good friend qualities; nice person, easy to talk to, fun to hang out with. But after about a year I noticed her behavior changing. She was always late when we made plans and I'm talking about 30 to 40 minutes late, not the typical 10 or 15 minutes. Her excuse is always the same, "I had to go home and take care of the cats." It's always about the cats, most of the time. Eventually I tried complaining to her about her chronic lateness. During one conversation, I asked her if she could see how being chronically late and using her cats as excuse could irritate me. Instead of saying something normal like, "yeah, you know I'm so sorry," or "thanks for letting me know, I'll try to be more on time," she said, and I quote, "I need to get going because I have to go to my boyfriend's house now." You cannot talk to her about anything concerning feelings or emotions. She's just not capable of it. How could I be friends with someone who acts that way?

 

You asked me if I would have felt differently if her being an hour late to my birthday was due to another reason other than taking care of her cats. No, I'd still be angry because it's rude to be that late to someone's birthday celebration without any notice. After all, she could have sent me a text, or an email showing consideration for my feelings knowing it was my birthday dinner but she didn't even bother.

 

Her hoarding affects our friendship because she is an emotionally bankrupt person. The fun, carefree person I first knew for the first few months of our friendship has completely morphed into a woman who lacks empathy and who refuses to take responsibility for her actions. If she didn't have the cats to use as a convenient excuse for her chronic lateness, sloppy appearance, and inability to stay awake at social functions, she'd find another object or situation to use as an excuse rather than just take responsibility herself. Like, for two years now she says she can't get her kitchen remodeled because she has to take care of cats all the time since she chooses to foster cats. Now, maybe I'm crazy, but she's choosing not to follow through which is a common trait of hoarders - they cannot make decisions by themselves. She has the money, the bids for the kitchen remodel, but for her to follow through with it would mean confronting her own hoarding behavior. So her kitchen will never be remodeled or cleaned up.

 

That's another reason I can't be friends with her anymore. She literally cannot make her own decisions - she chooses not to anyway. She always would call me up asking me to make her decisions for her which creeped me out. She's 43 years old. She can make her own decisions. But if someone else makes her decision for her, she can blame them conveniently if something were to go wrong, because they made her decision for her. She's like this with all her friends whom I've met so far, and is like that with her boyfriend. I can't stand that personality trait in her. I prefer friendships with people who are confident, can make their own decisions, take responsibility for their actions and not play the victim all the time. That gets old fast.

 

I never wanted to change her behavior. That's her problem. But when she's unreliable, uncommunicative, and sees herself as a victim that is really draining on me. And without communication, there is a lack of trust. That goes for anyone, hoarder or not. Our mutual friend completely ignores my friend's chronic lateness, never talks to her about her hoarding problems, and continues enabling her to stay in her martyr role. I see that as a very shallow friendship between the two of them. I can't ignore the fact that someone I know is a hoarder, who not only is endangering herself but is endangering the lives of cats for pete sake. Her boyfriend also ignores her hoarding as he's let it into his own house. So he is enabling her hoarding. As a result, his two teenage children got mad at him and moved out permanently, to live with their mother because of my friend's extreme behavior. Also, she hates his two children and told me once she pretends he's single by declining his invitations to spend time with him and his two children. That's absurd to me.

 

I could overlook her hoarding and not address it if I didn't care about her. But I'm not going to be an enabler anymore and stay quiet about an unhealthy behavior. Her own family has given up trying to get her to go to therapy and accept her for her hoarding. I guess if I did that, than she and I would still be friends. But I think hoarding is disgusting and she chooses to be in total denial about it. I can't be friends with someone who chooses to live in denial about their own problems. That's like living with an alcoholic and ignoring their alcoholism. Insert any addiction to that scenario and that's why I can't be friends with her anymore.

Edited April 21, 2011 by writergal

[dreamingoftigers]

Well, that's okay then right?

 

I know that friend break-ups can be hard but it really isn't because she is a "hoarder" it is because she is inconsiderate.

 

But she is also sick right? Tough call.

 

I work as a cleaner and run my own service. I have worked with three hoarders. Plus my father is a hoarder and my mother likes to throw everything away, (hmm, can anyone guess another reason that they might have marital problems?) It is tough and time-consuming and expensive. The expense comes from them going through every tiny little thing deciding whether in the next 5 years they might be able to use it. Working with hoarders has helped me not to hoard.

 

I admit it is hard to get rid of something that could be decorative or useful, our basic human nature inclines us to keep all options open. But at the end of the day I think hoarding is almost like a co-dependency to stuff. Like by throwing it away we have done something wrong, like a piece of us goes missing because we haven't got our own internal pieces together.

 

I find that the healthier I get, the less attached I am to stuff. I think that my father uses stuff to fill a void. I notice similar tendencies in my husband to collect "Stuff" and never find time to use it.

[writergal]

Well if I were to dig deeper (god forbid the use of irony here), I would agree with you that her being a hoarder is not the main reason I ended the friendship. It was her lack of consideration which I think is related to her hoarding mentality.

Plus, in the end I don't think she and I were that compatible as friends.

 

I think it's fascinating that your father is a hoarder but you aren't, and run your own cleaning service. Do you think that was in reaction to growing up with a hoarder in your household? How do you deal with your father now that you are out of the house? Doesn't it cause you emotional stress and strain that he won't change?

 

Your comment about hoarders being attached to stuff to fill a void is very insightful. I think that's exactly what my ex-friend is doing. Only, all her "stuff" is making her miserable. I think it's an excuse to hide and detach emotionally from whatever trauma she may have experienced in her life.

 

I have no attachment to stuff. I regularly purge my closets, etc. and clean my apartment a few times a week. Not in a neurotic way by any means, but I can't stand clutter. Like, I just got rid of two plastic bins of childhood clutter that were just sitting in the plastic bins, probably disintegrating. Like, why would I need to hang on to stuff from 20 years ago? There's no reason to.

 

I'm glad you feel you are recovering from your family home that was a hoarding environment. At least you recognize the triggers and so you can avoid falling into the same trap as your father has.

[johan]

I've seen the shows about hoarders on TV. They always make me really want to clean my house. It's incredible how attached someone can be to an old can or a piece of plastic. It's probably cruel, but it seems like the best solution is to get them away from the house, and then have a crew clean it out. Or burn it down. Burn it down is what I always think.

 

I don't feel sorry for them. If they cried and felt lost without all their garbage, it would still be a better life than the one they are living.

 

I think they are completely self-centered. They lose friends and family and become completely isolated. And they will choose their garbage over anything else you think might be important. If you want to find out how she really feels about you, go to her house and start throwing things away. She'll toss you out on your ass.

[writergal]

Johan,

 

Hah! I naively tried to offer her help when we first became friends and she refused, saying that she didn't need the help. Everything you said is so true if not a bit harsh.

 

Hoarders like my ex-friend are very self-centered. Her current boyfriend refuses to go to her house, so she always has to go to his. But now she's hoarding her stuff at his house. If I could contact TLC's show "Buried Alive" and tell them to do an intervention at my ex-friend's house, I would, believe me.

 

You're spot on when you say that hoarders choose their stuff over people. They do because they're attached to their stuff. Like dreamingoftigers pointed out with her father's hoarding behavior, he does it because it fills a void. Hoarders hide behind their stuff to fill an emotional void that therapy is a better cure for.

 

Hoarders believe that the only control they have over their lives is through saving and collecting things. If a person they love passes away, they hold on to that person's items forever. Now when my father died, my mother, sister and I put all of his clothes into plastic bags and brought them to the Salvation Army. We did that with his trinkets as well. The only thing I have of my dad's are 2 items: his typed dissertation that is bound, and his college sweatshirt. Does that make me a hoarder? Nope.

 

Hoarding: I just don't get it.

[pureinheart]

Hey WG...I watched that hoarders show too and got an education. I have had several friends that were hoarders. They have got some serious deep-rooted issues that sometimes never get worked out.

 

I had a bf that was a hoarder and during a time that I was not doing well, I picked up some of his habits...like going to thrift stores too much...it was a cheap escape for a time, but I got over run with stuff. I have since given a lot of stuff away because I hate clutter.

 

He chose his stuff over me, which was no surprise...it's part of the illness.

 

My heart goes out to you and your friend...success stories are few and far between, as there has to be major motivation and desire to change...people have chosen their illness over their kids and everything. Some of the conditions that kids of hoarders have had to grow up in is really bad.

Edited April 21, 2011 by pureinheart

[johan]

Honestly the best thing that could possibly happen to them is a house fire or tsunami.

[pureinheart]

Honestly the best thing that could possibly happen to them is a house fire or tsunami.

 

 

I totally agree...and since you watched the shows also...even when the clean up was finished, the structure was trashed to the point of irrepairable IMO. Just completely unhealthy from nothing being taken care of.

[writergal]

Hi pureinheart,

 

I'm sorry to hear that your boyfriend chose his stuff over you. That must have been a traumatic experience. You never expect a person to choose inanimate objects over a relationship with another human being.

 

You say you have several friends who are hoarders. How do you maintain friendships with them? Doesn't their hoarding behavior affect you at all? Didn't it bother you that your friends and boyfriend were hoarders?

 

You know I'm disappointed that i invested 3 years towards a friendship that really was a toxic one when you look at it from a distance. Just the other day I had lunch with our mutual friend who told me that she waited 45 minutes for my ex-friend to show up for their plans to rollerblade. I asked her if that upset her like it would me, and she made excuses for her, saying "well, she's always been like that since I've known her. I just plan around it." I'm sorry but I can't plan around someone being consistently 30-45 minutes late for any social activity we plan together. I did that for 3 years with this ex-friend, and her blowing off my 40th birthday dinner for her cats was the last straw. She really came across normal and stable, that is until she invited me over to her house once to see her cats (rolls eyes) and that's when her hoarding secret was exposed. Well, looking insider her car I thought it was odd she had so much stuff in it.

 

I also found out last fall from our mutual friend that she had been evicted (!) from her first home in the small town where she's from and her family still live. Her house is a 2 story house with two bedrooms, living room, kitchen, finished loft, large basement, and huge backyard. But she's totally ruined this house in the 13 years she's lived there. Just destroyed it's value with her hoarding behavior. I shouldn't be throwing so many stones at my poor ex-friend because I'm just as flawed but with different issues. I just can't wrap my brain around why people who hoard refuse to see it as a problem, alienating anyone from their life who tries to make them see it as the problem it is.

[writergal]

Johan you totally crack me up! You should host an episode of "Hoarders: Buried Alive!" I would pay to see how the hoarders would react to your straight forwardness.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I think it's fascinating that your father is a hoarder but you aren't, and run your own cleaning service. Do you think that was in reaction to growing up with a hoarder in your household?

 

Oh Hell no. Completely my husband's idea. I was terrified. One of our jobs (about 4 months in) was my parent's place. It took us 12 hours to do the living room, dust was like a thick sheet. It hadn't really been cleaned in over 20 years. My mother was so shocked when she walked in. She thought one of the pictures on the wall of a ship had turned grey over the years, it needed a wipedown, it is blue and red.

 

How do you deal with your father now that you are out of the house?

 

I don't, he's still mostly an ass, but he is a much more easy person to deal with after two years of therapy.

 

Doesn't it cause you emotional stress and strain that he won't change?

 

It caused me more strain that he liked to call me names and beat me up when I was little, the hoarding doesn't bother me much by comparison.

 

Now since the house got gutted on request of Mom, he just hoards in the basement and office. He also has a skin condition and the office has not been cleaned in years and years, so it is pretty gross in there.

 

Your comment about hoarders being attached to stuff to fill a void is very insightful. I think that's exactly what my ex-friend is doing. Only, all her "stuff" is making her miserable. I think it's an excuse to hide and detach emotionally from whatever trauma she may have experienced in her life.

 

Usually hoarders don't have much of a sense of "Self." So they are defined by their stuff.

 

Like, why would I need to hang on to stuff from 20 years ago? There's no reason to.

 

I find the older stuff brings back the memories and helps me not to forget who I was.

 

I'm glad you feel you are recovering from your family home that was a hoarding environment. At least you recognize the triggers and so you can avoid falling into the same trap as your father has.

 

I have had my moments but since EMDR stuff is nowhere near as important as it once was. Now I like to toss old stuff for better stuff. As well, the higher-end homes that I clean all seem to have one thing in common: they are sparsely decorated, very well organized. The lower the economic barrier seems to dip, the more "Stuff" in a house seems to accumulate. The correlation is almost universal. I have tried more often to emulate more of our successful clients in different areas of their lives.

 

It's incredible how attached someone can be to an old can or a piece of plastic. It's probably cruel, but it seems like the best solution is to get them away from the house, and then have a crew clean it out. Or burn it down. Burn it down is what I always think.

 

Essentially if someone's self-identity is tied to their things, losing all of it would be nothing short of traumatic, plus the times where that has happened does not solve the underlying issue and then they start back hoarding at even more rapid paces.

 

I don't feel sorry for them. If they cried and felt lost without all their garbage, it would still be a better life than the one they are living.

 

It would be if they had another coping skill, otherwise it would be just like a death.

 

I think they are completely self-centered. They lose friends and family and become completely isolated. And they will choose their garbage over anything else you think might be important.

 

Does this sound like anything else we know? It is called a dependency and people with a dependency cannot typically see past what they are dependent on enough to acknowledge the feelings etc of anyone else. The only way through a dependency is through different therapies to recalibrate the brain and it's response. An illness just like any other.

 

Like dreamingoftigers pointed out with her father's hoarding behavior, he does it because it fills a void. Hoarders hide behind their stuff to fill an emotional void that therapy is a better cure for.

 

My father was one of nine children (3 different fathers to one single mother). He was raised in some pretty poor conditions. Stuff is a big deal to him.

 

Hoarders believe that the only control they have over their lives is through saving and collecting things. If a person they love passes away, they hold on to that person's items forever. Now when my father died, my mother, sister and I put all of his clothes into plastic bags and brought them to the Salvation Army. We did that with his trinkets as well. The only thing I have of my dad's are 2 items: his typed dissertation that is bound, and his college sweatshirt. Does that make me a hoarder? Nope.

 

I think that sending away my father's hoarded stuff after he dies will be very hard for me despite our relationship.

 

 

I had a bf that was a hoarder and during a time that I was not doing well, I picked up some of his habits...like going to thrift stores too much...it was a cheap escape for a time, but I got over run with stuff. I have since given a lot of stuff away because I hate clutter.

 

My Dad does the thrift store/garage sale/estate sale thing too.

 

Honestly the best thing that could possibly happen to them is a house fire or tsunami.

 

I would hate to think of the psychological turmoil that that would do to the average person, much less someone so deeply rooted.

 

I totally agree...and since you watched the shows also...even when the clean up was finished, the structure was trashed to the point of irrepairable IMO. Just completely unhealthy from nothing being taken care of.

 

Some of the areas of my parent's house were damaged and needed repair badly. Part of the problem with hoarding is that you can have a little leak or something. It is so hard to get to etc, or it may not even be noticed because of all of the stuff, and then the damage gets worse.

 

You never expect a person to choose inanimate objects over a relationship with another human being.

 

Enh, my husband chose a laptop over me on more then one occasion.

 

You know I'm disappointed that i invested 3 years towards a friendship that really was a toxic one when you look at it from a distance. Just the other day I had lunch with our mutual friend who told me that she waited 45 minutes for my ex-friend to show up for their plans to rollerblade. I asked her if that upset her like it would me, and she made excuses for her, saying "well, she's always been like that since I've known her. I just plan around it." I'm sorry but I can't plan around someone being consistently 30-45 minutes late for any social activity we plan together. I did that for 3 years with this ex-friend, and her blowing off my 40th birthday dinner for her cats was the last straw. She really came across normal and stable, that is until she invited me over to her house once to see her cats (rolls eyes) and that's when her hoarding secret was exposed. Well, looking insider her car I thought it was odd she had so much stuff in it.

 

I have lateness issues. I am rarely on time for anything.

[Ross MwcFan]

I've seen the shows about hoarders on TV. They always make me really want to clean my house. It's incredible how attached someone can be to an old can or a piece of plastic. It's probably cruel, but it seems like the best solution is to get them away from the house, and then have a crew clean it out. Or burn it down. Burn it down is what I always think.

 

I don't feel sorry for them. If they cried and felt lost without all their garbage, it would still be a better life than the one they are living.

 

I think they are completely self-centered. They lose friends and family and become completely isolated. And they will choose their garbage over anything else you think might be important. If you want to find out how she really feels about you, go to her house and start throwing things away. She'll toss you out on your ass.

 

Um, I think anyone would toss you out on your ass if you went over to their house and started throwing their stuff away. I know I would. In fact you'd probably get more than simply being tossed out on your ass. It doesn't have anything to do with how they really feel about you.

[Ross MwcFan]

Honestly the best thing that could possibly happen to them is a house fire or tsunami.

 

So what would you suggest the next step should be in order to help them?

 

As I'm not sure if simply wrecking their home and all their stuff and then leaving them to just get on with it, would help them in the long run. It would certainly be very traumatic for them for a long time to come though, their issues would most probably still be there and they'd just return to hoarding again or replace it with something else, like maybe drugs.

[dreamingoftigers]

Um, I think anyone would toss you out on your ass if you went over to their house and started throwing their stuff away. I know I would. In fact you'd probably get more than simply being tossed out on your ass. It doesn't have anything to do with how they really feel about you.

 

That's actually a pretty good point. In fact, I'd be kind of choked if someone came over and started picking up garbage and tossing it out if I had a party the night before. I'd be embarassed.

[Ross MwcFan]

I wouldn't say I'm a hoarder, but I do enjoy having a lot of things I get enjoyment from, but at the same time, I hate holding onto things just for the sake of holding onto them.

 

My house isn't overrun by stuff (nor would I want it to be, it would feel very depressing).

 

So, I do have a lot of stuff, but it's all neatly organised, and I only like to buy things that are in good condition or at the very least average condition.

 

I like to keep the house clean, and whenever I have something that I have lost interest in, and know I will never be interested in it again, or something that has broken and cannot be fixed, I have to get rid of it, I hate the thought of keeping something just for the sake of keeping it. And if I do end up with several things I don't want I really feel like I have to be free of them.

 

This is basically why I'm always buying and selling things on ebay. Lol.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Ross MwcFan

[hART]

Pardon if I missed something, but why would a hoarder be a bad friend?

Everyone lives life differently and I may a bit more accepting than most, but this doesn't seem like an issue. If the person is a good person and is a good friend, then her personal life shouldn't matter. The only hoarding I have a problem with is rotten food hoarding (I'm not joking and I'm not talking about the mystery box in the fridge).

[writergal]

hART:

 

Hoarding is not about living life differently. It's a mental illness that left untreated can wreak havoc on people's lives, destroy property and harm children of hoarders and household pets. It's environmentally disgusting and toxic. How you can be empathetic to someone who causes that much damage to themselves, their relationships and the environment, is beyond me. I'm not a heartless person but I draw the line at enabling this kind of behavior in people I know. Ignoring it doesn't make the problem go away. My ex-friend's boyfriend and our mutual friend who ignore her hoarding aren't doing her any favors in the long run. They're just enabling her to continue being a hoarder and I won't do that. Like, if you know someone who does drugs and you ignore that aspect of their personality, you're not helping them in the long run. Or if you live with a person who has an addiction and you ignore their addiction and put up with its negative effects on your life, again, you're just enabling that person to continue their unhealthy behavior. Why are people afraid to set boundaries? I set boundaries with my ex-friend of what I would put up with and not. For example; be on time or not 30 minutes late when we make plans to get together. She refused to do that among other things. I cant be friends with someone who is like that.

 

A hoarder makes for a bad friend because of the following reasons, based on my own personal experience being friends with a hoarder:

 

1. Can't make rational decisions about what to keep or throw away.

2. Blames the world for their problems rather than take responsibility for themselves.

3. Perceive helpful people as a personal threat to their hoarding lifestyle.

4. Often refuses theraputic treatment for the underlying disorder that causes the hoarding behavior (OCD, ADD, physical, psychological or sexual abuse, etc.)

5. Unreliable person in general; cannot be trusted to follow through on things

6. Not trusthworthy

7. Has no sense of self and uses things to define their self worth. The more they acrue, the more secure they feel.

8. Often plays the martyr/victim role

9. Reclusive socially

10. Manipulates and lies a lot

 

People who hoard have a psychiatric problem that requires cognitive therapy and medication. I think my ex-friend seriously would benefit from being in cognitive therapy and on an antidepressant. But until she acknowledges her hoarding behavior as the problem it is, she will continue her hoarding that will eventually ruin her life.

[Irishlove]

Someone needs to call the health dept or human services or the police dept on this person. It's deplorable conditions to live in. It's not good for her health in all that anomonia and rotting food. They need help right away. It's an illness that needs help. They can't see they are sick either.

[writergal]

Trust me. I called the Humane Society on her once about her cats and she called me, raging about how horrible I was to do that to her because she and another woman started their own non-profit cat rescue service that fosters abandoned cats. She is her own boss, you see. If she were really serious about changing her living conditions she would get rid of those cats and give them to the Humane Society, but she won't do it because she feels like she needs to rescue every loose cat running on the street that she sees.

 

I would LOVE to call the health dept. or a hoarding expert (i.e. psychiatrist) to report her and force her to literally clean up her act. Her own mother forced her to go to therapy but she walked out of the therapy session and her only therapy now is calling a therapist on the phone every now and then. When I went to her house, it was so bad that I had an asthma attack after I left and had to take Bendryl. I brought my clothes to the dry cleaners that I'd worn while at her house because I smelled like I was wearing a suit made of cat dander. It was so gross.

Edited April 21, 2011 by writergal

[Ross MwcFan]

Well if you do force her out of her lifestyle (which I'm not in total agreement with), I sure hope you will be there to support her afterwards.

[writergal]

We can't choose our family, but we can choose our friends. I have no plans to rescue her from her hoarding lifestyle. That takes more energy and patience than I have for this person at this point in my life. She has to acknowledge her hoarding as a disorder, get on medication, be in therapy before I would ever consider letting her friendship back into my life.

[Irishlove]

Cut yourself free. I wouldn't want to smell that nasty stuff. Stay healthy and be clean. Let her family take care of it. You can't be her saving grace.

[NoMagicBullet]

Really great discussion here on hoarding. Thanks for the extra info on how your friend has treated you and others over the years, writergal.

 

hART:

A hoarder makes for a bad friend because of the following reasons, based on my own personal experience being friends with a hoarder:

 

1. Can't make rational decisions about what to keep or throw away.

True.

2. Blames the world for their problems rather than take responsibility for themselves.

Eh, this depends on the individual.

3. Perceive helpful people as a personal threat to their hoarding lifestyle.

True.

4. Often refuses theraputic treatment for the underlying disorder that causes the hoarding behavior (OCD, ADD, physical, psychological or sexual abuse, etc.)

Depends on the individual, but very true for extreme hoarders.

5. Unreliable person in general; cannot be trusted to follow through on things.

True for your friend, but you're painting with a broad brush here.

6. Not trusthworthy

This may be true for your friend, but this is a generalization.

7. Has no sense of self and uses things to define their self worth. The more they acrue, the more secure they feel.

True.

8. Often plays the martyr/victim role

Maybe true for your friend. True for my mom, actually, but she doesn't see that she has a problem either.

9. Reclusive socially

Probably true for most.

10. Manipulates and lies a lot

Again, true for your friend, but this is another generalization.

 

People who hoard have a psychiatric problem that requires cognitive therapy and medication.

I've heard CBT is good therapy for hoarders, but I think it's extreme that to say ALL hoarders need to be on medication.

I think my ex-friend seriously would benefit from being in cognitive therapy and on an antidepressant.

Yes, I think so, too.

But until she acknowledges her hoarding behavior as the problem it is, she will continue her hoarding that will eventually ruin her life.

Yes, unfortunately.

 

It sounds like you think your friend represents all hoarders and all hoarders are like your friend, but I don't think that's true. There are people who are hoarders or have the tendency who know it's a problem and work to change it. And I disagree that all hoarders are untrustworthy, manipulative, or blame others for their problems. I would argue with anyone who said I have those traits just because I'm a hoarder. And while I may reference my mother as who I learned my behavior from, it would be wrong of me to blame her for my mess. She doesn't have final say on what is or isn't in my space (though she would like to!); it's my mess and I have to take care of it.

 

Perpetually being late might be related to your friend's hoarding behavior -- she can't manage things or time well. Then again, it could just be that she's an inconsiderate jerk. Even if she went through therapy and solved the hoarding problem, she might still be a lousy friend. Hoarding or not, she has treated you poorly as a friend, and there's no reason you have to put up with that. It's to your credit that you've tried to help and you even called the Humane Society, but it's banging your head against a brick wall with her. It's good that you ended the friendship -- at least good for you, and you need to take care of you before anyone else.

 

hART: The food thing sounds like my dad. He'd have a clean living space, no clutter or excessive items, but he would NOT throw away moldy bread or food well past it's expiration date.

 

dreamingoftigers: I relate to your observation that hoarding seems to be inversely proportional to income. Both my parents grew up poor, and they both have attachments to material things, though mom is much worse than dad. In fact, I suspect my mom tries to live beyond her means and I think she partly does it out of a fear of being poor or thought of as poor.