its not worth it

[sion1981]

Oh yeah so now it's "let's pick on the new guy" time with snarky remarks about their manner of script. Haha.....funny....(not really).

[Rayne03]

He thought (however misguided) that if he was at least present at the house but she saw that he was not present in their marriage, she would either get angry and want him gone or she would see that things would never work out and stop being so devastated. When he "rubbed the affair in her face" he wasn't trying to hurt her more- he was trying to remind her he wasn't going to come around and work things out to make it better with her. She basically wouldn't take no for an answer.

.

 

Ok, I understand that sometimes life throws us a challenging situation and it is totally up to us how we are going to handle it. IMO, it sounds like both guilty parties here could have handled this in a much more mature manner, but instead, because of your choices, I believe feul was added to the fire. You keep talking about "how misguided" this MM is, but what you fail to understand is that separation/divorce is a PROCESS and it doesn't happen over night like the two of you seemed to have thought it was going to. Naturally there is going to be HUGE added emotions and problems thrown into this mess because the guy meets you, and a few months later, he leaves his matrimonial home of 17+ and moves into another womans home!! Naturally the wife is going to behave the way she has! She's most likely in shock and functioning on raw emotions! For you to think she is creating drama is just as immature as him moving from her home into yours! I don't believe for one second that he did not have ANY other options, and you did not step aside until the two of them worked things through. From what i've read here, it truly does sound like the two of you deserve each other and she deserves a man with integrity and some self esteem, because the manner in which the two of you have been handling this is very juvenile and you both must not think too highly of yourselves. You may tell yourself that you're perfect for each other (it sounds like you're both very needy), but I guarantee you, what he has done to his wife he WILL do to you in this case. Life happens, people get divorced all the time, but you will never trust him and it will always be on your mind in the future that he has had 2 affairs on his wife, moved straight into your home and without a solid base of trust, you will suffer what she is now. I don't mean to sound so harsh, but it's so crystal clear. You want this to have any chance? Then release him, give him the time and freedom to put his affairs in order and once that is done, only then should he be carrying on with you. It's your choice what you want as your foundation for this relationship. If he comes back, it's meant to be....

[miranda3379]

Miranda,

Stop focusing on the wife! Focus on you! What do YOU want? Do you love him and want him? You two need to be standing together and supporting each other right now. The wife is a grown woman who can take care of herself.

 

HUGS!!

(((MIRANDA)))

 

 

I want to be with him. I want things to be the way they were. Sadly I don't think either of those things will happen. It is just too much of a mess. I'm focusing on MM's wife because unless she stands up and takes care of herself he is always going to feel guilty and will never be truly happy being with me now. And if he leaves (or I leave him) he will probably not be truly happy then either because he doesn't really want to work things out at home. He will just have another affair in the future if he returns. And yes, I know there is that possibility he will do it to me if we stay together.

[miranda3379]

Ok, I understand that sometimes life throws us a challenging situation and it is totally up to us how we are going to handle it. IMO, it sounds like both guilty parties here could have handled this in a much more mature manner, but instead, because of your choices, I believe feul was added to the fire. You keep talking about "how misguided" this MM is, but what you fail to understand is that separation/divorce is a PROCESS and it doesn't happen over night like the two of you seemed to have thought it was going to. Naturally there is going to be HUGE added emotions and problems thrown into this mess because the guy meets you, and a few months later, he leaves his matrimonial home of 17+ and moves into another womans home!! Naturally the wife is going to behave the way she has! She's most likely in shock and functioning on raw emotions! For you to think she is creating drama is just as immature as him moving from her home into yours! I don't believe for one second that he did not have ANY other options, and you did not step aside until the two of them worked things through. From what i've read here, it truly does sound like the two of you deserve each other and she deserves a man with integrity and some self esteem, because the manner in which the two of you have been handling this is very juvenile and you both must not think too highly of yourselves. You may tell yourself that you're perfect for each other (it sounds like you're both very needy), but I guarantee you, what he has done to his wife he WILL do to you in this case. Life happens, people get divorced all the time, but you will never trust him and it will always be on your mind in the future that he has had 2 affairs on his wife, moved straight into your home and without a solid base of trust, you will suffer what she is now. I don't mean to sound so harsh, but it's so crystal clear. You want this to have any chance? Then release him, give him the time and freedom to put his affairs in order and once that is done, only then should he be carrying on with you. It's your choice what you want as your foundation for this relationship. If he comes back, it's meant to be....

 

 

The advice on this forum is helpful but SO confusing!!! Almost everyone is telling me that in order for MM to be serious about leaving his wife he must immediately move out, cut off all contact and basically act like his wife never existed all in a few short days. And while I understand that no contact is the optimal situation, I really don't get how it is feasible when ending a long marriage or relationship where you have ties. And now you are saying that what he did- meeting me and leaving his home in a few short months to be with me is crazy? Which is it? He's supposed to waffle back and forth between his wife and me and return to his home and leave again to be with me? He did the "kindest" thing possible in the situation. He gave her no hope, and he finally left and during everything he NEVER told her he would work things out. As far as him moving to my house- I've already explained that and I don't see the problem with it honestly... He could have stayed with a single friend he has but then we wouldn't have seen eachother much and we are supporting eachother through this.

 

It was NOT in any way possible for MM to get his own place. His wife has not decided (she goes back and forth) if she wants to live in their home that he has offered to keep paying the mortgage on or if she wants to move out on her own. She really wants to do neither- she just wants him back. She has changed her mind so many times that he doesn't know what to think- he can not afford to take on a year lease on an apartment and then end up stuck paying his mortgage too. If she is not living there she can not afford the mortgage either and right now she is paying some of the bills which he will have to take on if she moves out as well. He can not afford all of that as well as a lease and utitlies for an apartment he wouldn't even be living in if she moves out. So he has been staying with me for about a month now (and helping with rent and bills at my place)

 

As far as releasing him, I don't have him tied up in my basement. He is free to leave if he chooses. I don't control him. He wants to be with me, I know this, i see it. But the guilt his wife is throwing on him every day is eating him alive and part of him wants to alieviate that guilt. So that may cause him to return. Its not love for his wife or wanting to work out his marriage that may cause him to return and that makes me sad. He has told his wife that she needs to try online dating so she can find a man and be happy. He's done, checked out or he would not be able to think of the woman he spent so many years with, seeing another man, sleeping with another man.

 

If he were crying to me that he misses his home life or his wife, i would have encouraged him to go back because I do not want to compete with so many years of memories. But he's not. He's sad for how hard she is taking this, he's feeling guilt for how bad off she is. And sometimes he's angry at her that she won't just get mad and let him go. I'm not holding him hostage. he wants to be here with me. And when he doesn't. I'm sure he will leave or I will step aside.

[sugarbritches]

I see this a little different then you do. I think that he is loving the drama that his wife is causing. Its his way to stay in contact with her.

She will never heal or move on as long as they have contact.

Oh and Miranda, it will take a long time before that happens, right now he is wondering WTF he did.

His wife has had her life turned upside down. When this happens, you don't want to talk to others about it. She will talk to her friends and family when she is ready to, you and her husband have no right telling her how to handle her pain.

 

I am sure that you know only what he wants you to know. Funny thing is, if he went back I am sure his wife would realize what garbage he really is and throw him out.

 

Oh and just wait unit she does move on and fines somebody else, then he will really freak out. He thinks it will make it easier on him if she has somebody else. It will just open up a new problem for him.

 

If you really want him, send him home and move on. Then and only then will he get it together. He will either fix his marriage or get a divorce and then you can have a single man.

[Carrot2000]

 

If you really want him, send him home and move on. Then and only then will he get it together. He will either fix his marriage or get a divorce and then you can have a single man.

 

You don't need to send him home, but you need to send him somewhere--preferably a place of his own. He can get a short-term lease or a roommate, but he shouldn't be living with you. This is a man who hasn't been on his own in 20 years and he needs to take some time to get his shyte together instead of running from one woman to the next.

 

Clearly he's too weak to stand on his own.

[Gentlegirl]

I don't feel sorry for your MM. Poor baby, how very hard it must be for him. His wife is acting up on him is she? How dare she?

 

She is faced with lsoing him, her home and her reationship(although god knows she would be better off) and she has the temerity to be upset?

 

How do you know what he is telling you is the truth? You don't.

 

YOu are right about one thing though...it's not worth it.

[Rayne03]

The advice on this forum is helpful but SO confusing!!! Almost everyone is telling me that in order for MM to be serious about leaving his wife he must immediately move out, cut off all contact and basically act like his wife never existed all in a few short days. And while I understand that no contact is the optimal situation, I really don't get how it is feasible when ending a long marriage or relationship where you have ties. And now you are saying that what he did- meeting me and leaving his home in a few short months to be with me is crazy? Which is it? He's supposed to waffle back and forth between his wife and me and return to his home and leave again to be with me? He did the "kindest" thing possible in the situation. He gave her no hope, and he finally left and during everything he NEVER told her he would work things out. As far as him moving to my house- I've already explained that and I don't see the problem with it honestly... He could have stayed with a single friend he has but then we wouldn't have seen eachother much and we are supporting eachother through this.

 

It was NOT in any way possible for MM to get his own place. His wife has not decided (she goes back and forth) if she wants to live in their home that he has offered to keep paying the mortgage on or if she wants to move out on her own. She really wants to do neither- she just wants him back. She has changed her mind so many times that he doesn't know what to think- he can not afford to take on a year lease on an apartment and then end up stuck paying his mortgage too. If she is not living there she can not afford the mortgage either and right now she is paying some of the bills which he will have to take on if she moves out as well. He can not afford all of that as well as a lease and utitlies for an apartment he wouldn't even be living in if she moves out. So he has been staying with me for about a month now (and helping with rent and bills at my place)

 

As far as releasing him, I don't have him tied up in my basement. He is free to leave if he chooses. I don't control him. He wants to be with me, I know this, i see it. But the guilt his wife is throwing on him every day is eating him alive and part of him wants to alieviate that guilt. So that may cause him to return. Its not love for his wife or wanting to work out his marriage that may cause him to return and that makes me sad. He has told his wife that she needs to try online dating so she can find a man and be happy. He's done, checked out or he would not be able to think of the woman he spent so many years with, seeing another man, sleeping with another man.

 

If he were crying to me that he misses his home life or his wife, i would have encouraged him to go back because I do not want to compete with so many years of memories. But he's not. He's sad for how hard she is taking this, he's feeling guilt for how bad off she is. And sometimes he's angry at her that she won't just get mad and let him go. I'm not holding him hostage. he wants to be here with me. And when he doesn't. I'm sure he will leave or I will step aside.

 

Ok, I don't know who is suggesting MM cut off all contact and act like his wife never existed after all these years. You truly ARE "misguided". No where in MY post did I mention anything like that.

 

Their separation, divorce is THEIR business! Not yours! If anything, you should be sitting off to the sidelines somewhere waiting to see what's going to transpire instead of having your nose in every aspect during their very trying time! IF he does in fact leave his wife and they sort their business out, do you really want to begin a new relationship knowing that YOU are the cause of this and are allowing this woman's husband to live with you? If he is that weak (which I don't see what the attraction to THAT is) you can still be supportive as a friend, and simply listen and not involve yourself in this. But you would HAVE to remove yourself from the situation by having him move out of your home. Like I said before, I don't buy that they cannot work out a living situation where he does not have to live on the street or IN some other womans home! Why do you think he feels all this extra guilt? Because he knows what he is doing is morally wrong and knows that it's killing his wife that he disrespected and disregarded ANYTHING they may have had. They obviously were in love at one time and had some connection to have been together all those years. It's a slap in the face (and that's putting it mildly) to not give her the chance to deal with the shock and disbelief that her marriage may be ending.... having another woman in the middle of all this. You appear to be playing a very passive aggressive victim here and you're not getting any sympathy because of the way you are he are going about this.

 

The two of your met, he's decided he no longer wants to be in a loveless marriage which is understandable , but like I said before, this new relationship with you doesn't stand even a remote chance unless YOU remove yourself from the picture for a while and allow THEM the times that they NEED and deserve to work out their business. JMO. I've seen how this CAN work done the right way. Remember, she will fight for him 100 times stronger because their is another woman in the picture (whether she wants him back or not). This is only human nature.

[miranda3379]

Ok, I don't know who is suggesting MM cut off all contact and act like his wife never existed after all these years. You truly ARE "misguided". No where in MY post did I mention anything like that.

 

Their separation, divorce is THEIR business! Not yours! If anything, you should be sitting off to the sidelines somewhere waiting to see what's going to transpire instead of having your nose in every aspect during their very trying time! IF he does in fact leave his wife and they sort their business out, do you really want to begin a new relationship knowing that YOU are the cause of this and are allowing this woman's husband to live with you? If he is that weak (which I don't see what the attraction to THAT is) you can still be supportive as a friend, and simply listen and not involve yourself in this. But you would HAVE to remove yourself from the situation by having him move out of your home. Like I said before, I don't buy that they cannot work out a living situation where he does not have to live on the street or IN some other womans home! Why do you think he feels all this extra guilt? Because he knows what he is doing is morally wrong and knows that it's killing his wife that he disrespected and disregarded ANYTHING they may have had. They obviously were in love at one time and had some connection to have been together all those years. It's a slap in the face (and that's putting it mildly) to not give her the chance to deal with the shock and disbelief that her marriage may be ending.... having another woman in the middle of all this. You appear to be playing a very passive aggressive victim here and you're not getting any sympathy because of the way you are he are going about this.

 

The two of your met, he's decided he no longer wants to be in a loveless marriage which is understandable , but like I said before, this new relationship with you doesn't stand even a remote chance unless YOU remove yourself from the picture for a while and allow THEM the times that they NEED and deserve to work out their business. JMO. I've seen how this CAN work done the right way. Remember, she will fight for him 100 times stronger because their is another woman in the picture (whether she wants him back or not). This is only human nature.

 

 

In YOUR post, no you did not suggest MM cut off all contact and act like his wife never exisisted, but in others' posts they have basically suggested he should not have any contact whatsoever with her to help her heal. As for having my nose in everything- I'm in a relationship with MM, he turns to me for someone to talk to. I don't seek out answers or ask him things about his wife. He comes to me with this stuff. He shows me her texts, her letters etc. I don't ask to see those things. I've already begun a relationship with him- this isn't anything new. And like I said, not defending him, I enjoy having him at my house. We get to see eachother every day and fall asleep in eachother's arms every night. It is a good feeling. And what most OWs want after having MM return home every night or only able to spend a few nights with them. There is NO more sneaking around. Everything is out in the open with his family, his friends, his wife etc. And no one has anything bad to say. Most people (his friends, family ) are just glad that he's happy. I'm sure some people have passed judgement on our actions but they are entitled to their opinion.

 

I don't expect his wife to snap her fingers and get over this but honestly she needs to get out of denial. MM has done nothing to give her hope- he has even been deliberately cruel to try to drive the point home that he does not want to work on the marriage. that doesn't work either. He takes all the blame for destroying their marriage and he will take the blame for ending it. He does not want to work things out and if he did go back his wife would be left with the shell of a man who would half-assedly pretend to be there while missing something/someone else. And who would probably engage in another affair as soon as he could get away with it. Because for whatever reason he and his wife just don't have a connection anymore. People change from when they are teenagers.

 

And as for a woman fighting 100x as hard because there is another woman in the picture, i just don't understand that at all. If I was with someone who wanted to leave me for someone else, I would gladly open up the door and help him leave. And I speak from experience. I was cheated on and once I knew my partner had been intimate with someone else and betrayed me, that hurt killed my feelings for him, turned my world upside down and I wanted nothing to do with him. If someone doesn't want to be with you, you can't force them to. Why would anyone want to be with someone who doesn't want you as much as you want them?

[Baroness67]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baroness67

This makes absolutely no sense to me. On what planet does one ever find happiness in an affair situation without a price to pay?

 

 

Sarcasm is just one of my many services, at least according to my children:D

 

Looks like I was getting a little mixed up on which posts were saying what, and that went right over my head! I had way too much free time the other day and my quality control was a bit lacking ... carry on

[bentnotbroken]

In YOUR post, no you did not suggest MM cut off all contact and act like his wife never exisisted, but in others' posts they have basically suggested he should not have any contact whatsoever with her to help her heal. As for having my nose in everything- I'm in a relationship with MM, he turns to me for someone to talk to. I don't seek out answers or ask him things about his wife. He comes to me with this stuff. He shows me her texts, her letters etc. I don't ask to see those things. I've already begun a relationship with him- this isn't anything new. And like I said, not defending him, I enjoy having him at my house. We get to see eachother every day and fall asleep in eachother's arms every night. It is a good feeling. And what most OWs want after having MM return home every night or only able to spend a few nights with them. There is NO more sneaking around. Everything is out in the open with his family, his friends, his wife etc. And no one has anything bad to say. Most people (his friends, family ) are just glad that he's happy. I'm sure some people have passed judgement on our actions but they are entitled to their opinion.

 

I don't expect his wife to snap her fingers and get over this but honestly she needs to get out of denial. MM has done nothing to give her hope- he has even been deliberately cruel to try to drive the point home that he does not want to work on the marriage. that doesn't work either. He takes all the blame for destroying their marriage and he will take the blame for ending it. He does not want to work things out and if he did go back his wife would be left with the shell of a man who would half-assedly pretend to be there while missing something/someone else. And who would probably engage in another affair as soon as he could get away with it. Because for whatever reason he and his wife just don't have a connection anymore. People change from when they are teenagers.

 

And as for a woman fighting 100x as hard because there is another woman in the picture, i just don't understand that at all. If I was with someone who wanted to leave me for someone else, I would gladly open up the door and help him leave. And I speak from experience. I was cheated on and once I knew my partner had been intimate with someone else and betrayed me, that hurt killed my feelings for him, turned my world upside down and I wanted nothing to do with him. If someone doesn't want to be with you, you can't force them to. Why would anyone want to be with someone who doesn't want you as much as you want them?

 

 

What a wonderful lump of man he is.

[sugarbritches]

You don't need to send him home, but you need to send him somewhere--preferably a place of his own. He can get a short-term lease or a roommate, but he shouldn't be living with you. This is a man who hasn't been on his own in 20 years and he needs to take some time to get his shyte together instead of running from one woman to the next.

 

Clearly he's too weak to stand on his own.

 

We all know that he will go back home, he is freaking out about leaving. He is using his wife as an excuse, that way when he goes back home, he can tell his mistress that its his wifes fault. We all know its because he doesn't have the balls to deal with his actions.

 

She says that the wife only belames her, I don't think that is possible. She will forever blame both of them. Even if they try to work things out, she will never trust him again and always wonder who will be the next mistress, hello she is number 2 the man is nothing but a cheater!

[Rayne03]

What a wonderful lump of man he is.

 

OH YES! Every girls dream!! .....sigh ... now why wasn't I so lucky as to be one of his mistess' So strong, trusting and self assured! sheesh

 

Miranda, perhaps I'm not articulating myself well enough here, because my comments are going way over your head. You're gonna do what you're gonna do regardless of what anyone says. You're just not getting the "blessing" or whatever it is you're seeking here, and all i've got left to say is, good luck with your venture. I'm sure it will be an interesting ride!

Edited April 27, 2011 by Rayne03
added sentence

[Baroness67]

Everything is out in the open with his family, his friends, his wife etc. And no one has anything bad to say. Most people (his friends, family ) are just glad that he's happy.

 

This is turning into a huge joke. This has got to be the fantasy of one very twisted mind. Never in the history of history could this scenario ever be true.

[miranda3379]

This is turning into a huge joke. This has got to be the fantasy of one very twisted mind. Never in the history of history could this scenario ever be true.

 

 

It's true. I can give you references if you like . His best friend cheated on his wife, got divorced and isn't even with that OW he's now with someone else and is very happy and encouraged my MM to leave his wife. He said he hasn't seen him this happy in years. People he works with don't care one way or the other. His only living relative is his brother who is happily married and his brother knows me and likes me and is a preacher and says as long as his brother is happy he will accept it. His brother has always hated his wife because his wife doesn't want anything to do with his side of the family. His wife's family probably hates MM rightfully so but as far as his own friends even his colleagues, they are supportive or they don't pass judgement openly. If there were kids involved maybe peoples' reactions would be different. But it is so commonplace these days to get divorced, that no one has batted an eye. Most just say "as long as you are happy"

[bentnotbroken]

It's true. I can give you references if you like . His best friend cheated on his wife, got divorced and isn't even with that OW he's now with someone else and is very happy and encouraged my MM to leave his wife. He said he hasn't seen him this happy in years. People he works with don't care one way or the other. His only living relative is his brother who is happily married and his brother knows me and likes me and is a preacher and says as long as his brother is happy he will accept it. His brother has always hated his wife because his wife doesn't want anything to do with his side of the family. His wife's family probably hates MM rightfully so but as far as his own friends even his colleagues, they are supportive or they don't pass judgement openly. If there were kids involved maybe peoples' reactions would be different. But it is so commonplace these days to get divorced, that no one has batted an eye. Most just say "as long as you are happy"

 

 

Now that is funny as hell. :lmao::lmao:

[seren]

This all sounds a right old can of worms all around. in an ideal world, the MM would have spoken with BS about not wanting to be married, managed the exit from the marriage, with no talk of there being an OW, no, go join a dating agency, no back and fro, just supporting his long term wife while the transition from married to separated sunk in. In time, the 'coming out' with the OW would have been easier to bear, not easy, just easier.

 

The way this seems to be panning out and forgive me if I have read this whole thing wrong, but he said he had an OW, was no longer in love with his wife and was leaving to live with OW. BS basically 'went off it', I can see that having been married one day to I have someone else, I love them and not you, I am leaving to be with the OW and by the way, you are being far too hysterical are in denial that our 25 year marriage has ended and now you need to find someone else online, never mind that you (she) still love me. Oh and I will be back and fro, wanting to see my dog, which by inference means, not you, but you (she) just have to grow some and accept it, oh yes, I am also going to introduce this OW to our friends, family and they will accept it because I am happy. Jeez, what a piece of work this man is, my heart goes out to this woman and I hope she has support.

 

Any advice I would give would be to guard your heart Miranda, he sure sounds like a very emotionally immature person, he has known his wife for 25 years and yet seems surprised that she would be this way, was he blind to her, did he not understand how she would react? if the answer is no, then he sounds very self absorbed.

 

In an ideal world, he would have managed his exit far better, by not rubbing her nose in it, by not introducing you to family and friends so soon and by realising that the woman who has been with him for all this time is human, has feelings and for nothing else but for their history, she deserves respect and compassion. I truly hope this is all some fantasy, if it isn't then it is messed up, if it is, well equally messed up too.

 

I wonder where the BS has gone.

[NoIDidn't]

This all sounds a right old can of worms all around. in an ideal world, the MM would have spoken with BS about not wanting to be married, managed the exit from the marriage, with no talk of there being an OW, no, go join a dating agency, no back and fro, just supporting his long term wife while the transition from married to separated sunk in. In time, the 'coming out' with the OW would have been easier to bear, not easy, just easier.

 

The way this seems to be panning out and forgive me if I have read this whole thing wrong, but he said he had an OW, was no longer in love with his wife and was leaving to live with OW. BS basically 'went off it', I can see that having been married one day to I have someone else, I love them and not you, I am leaving to be with the OW and by the way, you are being far too hysterical are in denial that our 25 year marriage has ended and now you need to find someone else online, never mind that you (she) still love me. Oh and I will be back and fro, wanting to see my dog, which by inference means, not you, but you (she) just have to grow some and accept it, oh yes, I am also going to introduce this OW to our friends, family and they will accept it because I am happy. Jeez, what a piece of work this man is, my heart goes out to this woman and I hope she has support.

 

Any advice I would give would be to guard your heart Miranda, he sure sounds like a very emotionally immature person, he has known his wife for 25 years and yet seems surprised that she would be this way, was he blind to her, did he not understand how she would react? if the answer is no, then he sounds very self absorbed.

 

In an ideal world, he would have managed his exit far better, by not rubbing her nose in it, by not introducing you to family and friends so soon and by realising that the woman who has been with him for all this time is human, has feelings and for nothing else but for their history, she deserves respect and compassion. I truly hope this is all some fantasy, if it isn't then it is messed up, if it is, well equally messed up too.

 

I wonder where the BS has gone.

 

I agree Seren. I've read some truly twisted things from many OW heady and drunk with the FOG of the A. Once they come down off that high and rejoin the rest of the world cured from love insanity, they would be embarrassed to read how little regard they showed for another human being.

 

This thread is a case of "its not worth it because the W won't let him leave her peacefully" not "its not worth it because of all the pain its caused everyone and I truly regret that".

[TurboGirl]

This is turning into a huge joke. This has got to be the fantasy of one very twisted mind. Never in the history of history could this scenario ever be true.

 

I agree with that. Wow.