25 Years Together - Is it time to end it?

[lovingwhatis]

2sunny, I am liking the analogies, especially the sea glass one.

I am a very visual person, so these pictures that you are painting are helping me (and I am sure Nick) see better. Thanks for that. Also, thanks for talking about the going with the flow analogy. It has really made me think of a different way to approach certain things in my life.

 

Nick, regarding your q about having to let go of the good parts too, I do feel that generally we tend to sometimes attach to them too, in ways not too unlike the negative parts. But they are really just there, to be enjoyed, but not necessarily held too tight. I imagine a good example of how holding on can be detrimental is when kids grow up and leave the family. The good memories and times with them are awesome for sure, but they cannot last, for life is changing, and holding on too tight causes suffering... Depending on how you and your W navigate through this period of your life, you may find that you can be great co-parents, even co-parents that share closeness and friendship with each other.

 

I trust you will move in your own way through this very heavy sadness that has fell on your heart. Hugs

[NickFeek]

This made me tear up. It actually feels there might be another way to look at an alternate future without feeling like it'll all be sadness. Thank you.

[Tiberius]

DONT break it off. It isnt your childrens fault that she isnt sexing you. Why put them through a divorce. Just get some action on the side. In the best case she wont notice/care in the worst case she will divorce you, something you were contemplating to do anyway.

[2sunny]

so.... i got inspired...

 

i decided to go work in the garden today!

 

i found a ton of weeds needed to be removed. i felt a bit overwhelmed. i took some action:

 

once i started to get a handle on getting rid of the un-useful things growing i could see what was there. even the flowers were going to seed... so i trimmed them back- cut the deadheads and sprinkled the seeds that were in the "dead" flowers before i took them to the trash can. i turned the soil to give the earth some fresh air and watered knowing it's not looking great - but it certainly provides fertile ground for a healthy basis for new growth to take place. it looks fresh and new- it changed... there is room for hope knowing i have cleared away the crappy stuff that is no longer useful... keeping what will work, throwing away what is no longer growing and changing.

 

while doing this little exercise that makes the yard look better - my mind was also doing an exercise that i do every few months... weeding through who and how i spend my time and energy with. i always decide during these exercises who is positive energy in my life and who drags me down with negative energy... i decide to "weed my own garden" so that i can grow positive energy bigger. to eliminate the stuff and people in my life that don't bring me joy - is a beautiful thing!

 

change brings hope of new life.

[PinkInTheLimo]

DONT break it off. It isnt your childrens fault that she isnt sexing you. Why put them through a divorce. Just get some action on the side. In the best case she wont notice/care in the worst case she will divorce you, something you were contemplating to do anyway.

 

Why put the kids through a situation where there father cheats on their mother? Is that better? I don't think so. You might say that they won't know it but honestly I think they will feel these things.

[NickFeek]

Tiberius & Pink,

 

The one thing I promised myself through all this was that I'd never cheat again. For me it's make it work the right way or not at all. I do see what you're saying, and I confess I've wondered what that would be like. But my conscience was so shot through with guilt after the first & only time that I know I could never live that life. And yes, the example it would set for the kids, even subconsciously, is not something I could live with either.

[NickFeek]

so.... i got inspired...

 

i decided to go work in the garden today!

 

i found a ton of weeds needed to be removed. i felt a bit overwhelmed. i took some action:

 

once i started to get a handle on getting rid of the un-useful things growing i could see what was there. even the flowers were going to seed... so i trimmed them back- cut the deadheads and sprinkled the seeds that were in the "dead" flowers before i took them to the trash can. i turned the soil to give the earth some fresh air and watered knowing it's not looking great - but it certainly provides fertile ground for a healthy basis for new growth to take place. it looks fresh and new- it changed... there is room for hope knowing i have cleared away the crappy stuff that is no longer useful... keeping what will work, throwing away what is no longer growing and changing.

 

while doing this little exercise that makes the yard look better - my mind was also doing an exercise that i do every few months... weeding through who and how i spend my time and energy with. i always decide during these exercises who is positive energy in my life and who drags me down with negative energy... i decide to "weed my own garden" so that i can grow positive energy bigger. to eliminate the stuff and people in my life that don't bring me joy - is a beautiful thing!

 

change brings hope of new life.

 

That IS a beautiful thing.

 

I have known what it feels like to weed out the "bad energy people" for years now. When we started to have kids, my time & energy became so much more precious that I decided from then on I'd only do things & be with people who DIDN'T suck the life out of me.

 

Now as you can guess, that never included my wife. It's a place I suspected I'd have to go to eventually but never had the courage to until now. And even during this period of slowly growing emotional separation, I can feel some of that burden slipping away. I'm seeing now that negativity colored everything in my home, and that as it's lifting I can now identify the things I still love & cherish and would want to nurture. It's helped me to be more patient with my kids and even my wife. BUT this won't last unless I follow through with this rebirth completely, with or without her.

[lovingwhatis]

Nick, hugs.

 

There is definitely an alternate way to look at the future, and

I'm glad that in the midst of your sadness you can see that.

 

I am dealing with some grief too, and was reading Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' research and theory on the five stages of grief. I am sure you've heard of it. It helps to see that yes, there are stages, and one is most likely not going ot be stuck in one state forever. I also saw this too, and thought I'd share. Here they are adding the positive steps after acceptance where one begins a new cycle.

 

http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html

 

My best friend went through something really similar to what you are going through and he said that the biggest loneliness he felt in his life was during the last parts of his M. There is nothing like the loneliness when with another... But I am glad you report that he has come out of the sadness, and is currently thriving. His kids are too. Now the process is of course a daunting one, but have faith that it will move through, especially if you keep being as brave as you have been in facing your feelings and thoughts. I seriously admire the way you have opened up here even while you are experiencing all the intense emotions that you have been experiencing.

 

Keep facing the stuff, the only way out is through.

 

This made me tear up. It actually feels there might be another way to look at an alternate future without feeling like it'll all be sadness. Thank you.

[NickFeek]

I was JUST thinking about that phrase, "The only way out is through."

 

Sorry you have some grief to deal with as well. Yes, I've studied the five stages; but I've never seen the seven stages. That makes so much sense, and it's good to know there are more positive stages to look forward to. I know they're not always linear, but I'm fairly well ensconced in Stage 4 right now (with a pinch of 5), and very happy to be out of the first three.

 

So good to hear someone you know has actually come out the other side of this with life & kids healthy. And I agree about the loneliness. I have said to several people in the last week (and many more over the last couple of decades) that loneliness WITH someone is so much harder to take than truly being alone.

 

Thank you for the compliment. I am trying hard to be open & honest through it all. But I'm not sure I can own all of the bravery. I seem to be at the precipice right now, and I'm having trouble taking that final leap. My wife has good & bad days, and generally that hasn't confused me. But today she was in a very good mood - I'd say even solicitous & flirty - and for some reason it's really confusing me. I'm still resigned to take the steps I/we need to take, but a day like this makes it hurt even more. I think I might resent it. It feels like she's sensing my resignation and is reaching out to me, and though part of me is happy that she's happy and being nice & more understanding, the other part wants to say A. Are you being real? and B. After all we've failed at, I hope you don't think this is enough. I feel cruel for thinking these things, but I can't deny it. I would love to have what we had today without the burden of the complete relationship. I just can't carry that anymore.

[2sunny]

courage and getting through the tough things takes action - that is the part you are missing. once past the road blocks (in your mind) you can turn the fear into courage by doing something about what you fear the most.

 

THAT is what builds courage. something i have a lot of experience with = courage... it's awesome to move to the other side. the only one standing in your way is you...

 

contrary action makes everything different. doesn't say you have to be mean - just true to yourself...speak your truth, having a voice. take action on what is right. things turn around...

[NickFeek]

You're right, and here's a perfect example.

 

Something pretty intense happened today. I finally got some answers from her, which were NO marriage counseling and NO compromising on the work front. I essentially told her those are deal breakers for me, and she started talking about the logistics of our impending breakup.

 

About 2-3 hours later, she started asking me what I wanted from her, i.e. what it would take to keep this marriage intact. I had spent those hours accepting the end of things, and making peace with it as much as possible in so short a time, and then she comes back with possible points of compromise.

 

I'm not convinced she understands what it WOULD take, and I understand even SHE is vacillating because of how hard the future looks for the kids & us. But I guess the bigger point here is what you just said, which is it wasn't ME who said that's it we're breaking up. It was her. And even though I more or less agreed, since she put it out there, she had the power to retract it. I'm putting all the power in her hands, because I'm not courageous enough to take it on myself.

 

Now this was still a big thing, because her answers were pretty definitive, and that's helping me keep my mind made up. But I don't want to think we'll have to go through this "breakup" again & again just because I can't pull the trigger myself. I'll keep you all posted about what happens next.

[lovingwhatis]

Nick,

 

It makes me smile to know that we are tuned in enough to think along similar lines. Somehow synchronicities like that increase my faith in how things work.

 

I trust you had a good weekend. I wrote you a question about how things went with your W, but just read your current post, and that answered it. I am with you on the multiple breakups part, it is even harder to have to go through the wrenching emotions multiple times instead of doing a "pull the bandaid off". As far as your inability to be the one to be the one that does it, instead of leaving it to her, I wanted to suggest the zen concept of "it" making itself, instead of thinking you (or she) for that matter needs to make it. I don't want to get flack for this, for i know that it could potentially get you more stuck by reinforcing the indecision, but it ultimately is the thing that happens, whether you like it or not, life continues, and somewhere there is a hard or soft ending. But it does happen... It is more of a matter of removing the obstacles in you that are preventing the natural flow of things. Just a food for thought.

 

On a different note, your phrase "without the burden of the complete relationship" intrigued me. Can you elaborate on that? That's something I've pondered at times too, the weight of this entity called "the relationship" vs the moment to moment interactions with another human being. Sometimes that weight can indeed seem heavy, but when we really look, that's just a construct, the relationship per se doesn't really exist.. I hope you know what I mean.

 

My grief has to do with the imminent death of someone I love and care about. I am very close to him, and seeing death come slowly is showing me that no matter how much emotional awareness I thought I had, there is no such thing as "being fully prepared"... All kinds of layers of emotions show up, other people's emotions, memories of previously suppressed emotions... I am navigating it as best as I can, with the help of sweets and pastries. Participating in your thread has helped me more indirectly deal with the emotions of grief, mine and the other person's. There seem to be no shortcuts, no easy ways to do it. And though generally I agree with 2sunny's weeding analogy, I am consciously making the choice to not shy away from the intensity of it, and not move away from his pain just so I can spare myself pain.

 

Thanks for listening.

I was JUST thinking about that phrase, "The only way out is through."

 

Sorry you have some grief to deal with as well. Yes, I've studied the five stages; but I've never seen the seven stages. That makes so much sense, and it's good to know there are more positive stages to look forward to. I know they're not always linear, but I'm fairly well ensconced in Stage 4 right now (with a pinch of 5), and very happy to be out of the first three.

 

So good to hear someone you know has actually come out the other side of this with life & kids healthy. And I agree about the loneliness. I have said to several people in the last week (and many more over the last couple of decades) that loneliness WITH someone is so much harder to take than truly being alone.

 

Thank you for the compliment. I am trying hard to be open & honest through it all. But I'm not sure I can own all of the bravery. I seem to be at the precipice right now, and I'm having trouble taking that final leap. My wife has good & bad days, and generally that hasn't confused me. But today she was in a very good mood - I'd say even solicitous & flirty - and for some reason it's really confusing me. I'm still resigned to take the steps I/we need to take, but a day like this makes it hurt even more. I think I might resent it. It feels like she's sensing my resignation and is reaching out to me, and though part of me is happy that she's happy and being nice & more understanding, the other part wants to say A. Are you being real? and B. After all we've failed at, I hope you don't think this is enough. I feel cruel for thinking these things, but I can't deny it. I would love to have what we had today without the burden of the complete relationship. I just can't carry that anymore.

[NickFeek]

Ha, sweets and pastries. I've put on a few pounds myself in the last six months.

 

So sorry to hear that. I do think you're taking a great approach to it, and good to hear you're getting at least some benefit from all the help you've given me. And I agree you have to stay in touch with the person in pain. I drifted away from my grandmother in the last years of her life - one of my most favorite people on earth - and I will always regret that.

 

I'm also taking comfort in synchronicities. I've had several people say the same things to me about my situation, and that can't be a coincidence.

 

I have to say I think, despite all the inner & outer struggle, the Zen approach is how I've been handling this more than any other way. I've done my best to be very honest with her, and to ask her to do the same with me, and through all that we're defining piece by piece what is and is not tenable. In a very slow & sometimes more painful way, we are beginning to conclude the same things. Neither of us seem 100% ready to stick to our guns, and I DO believe that eventually someone needs to take the first step & decide; but in the process we're hopefully making that final stepping up easier - or at least more inevitable.

 

My original meaning of "without the burden of the complete relationship" was just that I could see us being friends, coparents, partners in other decisions, and much more respectful & loving to each other if we were not married. That, like what 2sunny is saying, if we can pull away all the weeds, the good stuff can poke through. But the way you describe it, it brings up something else - something along the lines of "you always hurt the ones you love" idea.

 

I have always found it easier to be more tolerant & patient with people I'm NOT close to. I think when expectations are broader & deeper, we worry more about what that other person is giving us, and that colors how we interact on every level. I'm not suggesting all relationships should only go so deep, just that it's infinitely harder to navigate the deeper waters. Still worth it with the right person(s).

 

As to the "just a construct" thought, I agree. I told my wife today that the mythology of our relationship is that I'm the screwed up one with the issues that need to be resolved, and she's the stable one waiting for me to come around, and that this has so framed our relationship from the get-go that it's caused us (and especially her) to overlook or at least discount whatever issues she needs to deal with, and whatever things I may be right about. It's hard not to fall into the routine/trap of relying on the construct, and sometimes it can even be comforting. But as I've seen the hard way it can lull you into neglecting what needs working on or nurturing.

[change]

 

My original meaning of "without the burden of the complete relationship" was just that I could see us being friends, coparents, partners in other decisions, and much more respectful & loving to each other if we were not married. That, like what 2sunny is saying, if we can pull away all the weeds, the good stuff can poke through. But the way you describe it, it brings up something else - something along the lines of "you always hurt the ones you love" idea.

 

I can't say that I totally understand this. The burden here seems to be obligation, is it not? The good stuff that you describe poking through is much of the good stuff that a marriage is made of.

 

 

As to the "just a construct" thought, I agree. I told my wife today that the mythology of our relationship is that I'm the screwed up one with the issues that need to be resolved, and she's the stable one waiting for me to come around, and that this has so framed our relationship from the get-go that it's caused us (and especially her) to overlook or at least discount whatever issues she needs to deal with, and whatever things I may be right about. It's hard not to fall into the routine/trap of relying on the construct, and sometimes it can even be comforting. But as I've seen the hard way it can lull you into neglecting what needs working on or nurturing.

 

Man, I have to say that this really speaks to me. Thank you for sharing, NickFeek.

 

I've caused a lot of issues in my marriage, but my wife has always taken on the 'stable caretaker' role. When it was no longer necessary, she was unable to relinquish it or the resentment that she had apparently built up. Now in our separation, the construct is still alive and well, despite the fact that my behavior has changed completely. She still had yet to take responsibility for the failings in our marriage or the failings that may lead us to divorce.

 

I may take what you've written and read it to her.

[lovingwhatis]

I know! Despite my working out, I seem to constantly gravitate towards sweets, it is my preferred escape method.

 

Thank you for the empathy. Yes, I know what you mean about grandparents, I did that once, and wished that I had the strength at the time to handle it better, and I feel that currently I am being offered an opportunity to really open up in ways I previously was unable to. It goes back to the willingness to have the heart broken... It has been transformative.

 

"We hurt the ones we love most", yep. Though there also seems to be some more resilience in those relationships that somehow lacks in others. And of course, the most intimate of those relationships has the potential to really be the most hurtful...

 

Reading your post today coincided with me doing some research online about sacred sexuality, a whole different way of looking at sexuality. So I will share with you one observation with you... Well, first I have to say, that has been a topic I've avoided for a while, for I am rather fearful of it. But in your posts I constantly see this hurt, and today it clicked with something. This lady was discussing sexuality in a completely different way. I feel that you (this goes for me as well) can benefit from some healing of the wounds of rejection. You've experienced rejection for so long, it feels that when you talk about your interactions with your W, even the non sexual ones, there is this gaping wound underneath, the wound of being denied... Not to go into a victim description here, but for me it is time to approach that wound squarely and face some stuff on a deep level. For as you are approaching things with W in the more organic way, this is one area that you can benefit from healing...

 

Of course, it has taken me years to be able to see this for myself. Ive had people suggest it, and I just wasn't ready. With such wound, it really makes relating on an intimate level almost nauseating. Transcending it may mean the real key to finding strength to end it, or the strength to keep going.

 

Love that phrase, "mythology of the relationship". Isn't it like this, a mythology, a story, intertwined with all kinds of memories, stories, cultural views, images. But taken away completely, what's left is the woman facing you, her face, her body, her energy, and whatever interaction that arises...

 

 

Ha, sweets and pastries. I've put on a few pounds myself in the last six months.

 

So sorry to hear that. I do think you're taking a great approach to it, and good to hear you're getting at least some benefit from all the help you've given me. And I agree you have to stay in touch with the person in pain. I drifted away from my grandmother in the last years of her life - one of my most favorite people on earth - and I will always regret that.

 

I'm also taking comfort in synchronicities. I've had several people say the same things to me about my situation, and that can't be a coincidence.

 

I have to say I think, despite all the inner & outer struggle, the Zen approach is how I've been handling this more than any other way. I've done my best to be very honest with her, and to ask her to do the same with me, and through all that we're defining piece by piece what is and is not tenable. In a very slow & sometimes more painful way, we are beginning to conclude the same things. Neither of us seem 100% ready to stick to our guns, and I DO believe that eventually someone needs to take the first step & decide; but in the process we're hopefully making that final stepping up easier - or at least more inevitable.

 

My original meaning of "without the burden of the complete relationship" was just that I could see us being friends, coparents, partners in other decisions, and much more respectful & loving to each other if we were not married. That, like what 2sunny is saying, if we can pull away all the weeds, the good stuff can poke through. But the way you describe it, it brings up something else - something along the lines of "you always hurt the ones you love" idea.

 

I have always found it easier to be more tolerant & patient with people I'm NOT close to. I think when expectations are broader & deeper, we worry more about what that other person is giving us, and that colors how we interact on every level. I'm not suggesting all relationships should only go so deep, just that it's infinitely harder to navigate the deeper waters. Still worth it with the right person(s).

 

As to the "just a construct" thought, I agree. I told my wife today that the mythology of our relationship is that I'm the screwed up one with the issues that need to be resolved, and she's the stable one waiting for me to come around, and that this has so framed our relationship from the get-go that it's caused us (and especially her) to overlook or at least discount whatever issues she needs to deal with, and whatever things I may be right about. It's hard not to fall into the routine/trap of relying on the construct, and sometimes it can even be comforting. But as I've seen the hard way it can lull you into neglecting what needs working on or nurturing.

[NickFeek]

Reading your post today coincided with me doing some research online about sacred sexuality, a whole different way of looking at sexuality. So I will share with you one observation with you... Well, first I have to say, that has been a topic I've avoided for a while, for I am rather fearful of it. But in your posts I constantly see this hurt, and today it clicked with something. This lady was discussing sexuality in a completely different way. I feel that you (this goes for me as well) can benefit from some healing of the wounds of rejection. You've experienced rejection for so long, it feels that when you talk about your interactions with your W, even the non sexual ones, there is this gaping wound underneath, the wound of being denied... Not to go into a victim description here, but for me it is time to approach that wound squarely and face some stuff on a deep level. For as you are approaching things with W in the more organic way, this is one area that you can benefit from healing...

 

Of course, it has taken me years to be able to see this for myself. Ive had people suggest it, and I just wasn't ready. With such wound, it really makes relating on an intimate level almost nauseating. Transcending it may mean the real key to finding strength to end it, or the strength to keep going.

 

Love that phrase, "mythology of the relationship". Isn't it like this, a mythology, a story, intertwined with all kinds of memories, stories, cultural views, images. But taken away completely, what's left is the woman facing you, her face, her body, her energy, and whatever interaction that arises...

 

To the last part, yes that's it exactly. And I think through all that the "what's left" part is what we lost. It's possible to find it again, but there's a lot to break down to get there.

 

You've definitely hit on something. I do feel perpetually denied, and I do feel like that means I've taken on the victim role - to the point where I'd have a hard time taking command of an interpersonal exchange. I've learned the last few years how to do that emotionally, but physically my hands have been tied. I feel like that part of me has atrophied, or had until my affair, and now it's awake again in a way that can't be stopped. There's more on this subject, but my head is just not clear enough today to sort through it.

[NickFeek]

I can't say that I totally understand this. The burden here seems to be obligation, is it not? The good stuff that you describe poking through is much of the good stuff that a marriage is made of.

 

Man, I have to say that this really speaks to me. Thank you for sharing, NickFeek.

 

I've caused a lot of issues in my marriage, but my wife has always taken on the 'stable caretaker' role. When it was no longer necessary, she was unable to relinquish it or the resentment that she had apparently built up. Now in our separation, the construct is still alive and well, despite the fact that my behavior has changed completely. She still had yet to take responsibility for the failings in our marriage or the failings that may lead us to divorce.

 

I may take what you've written and read it to her.

 

I don't think you're wrong at all in your first paragraph. When it gets tough or impossible to hold onto that obligation is when the weeds that need to be pulled are at the core of the relationship. It pretty much requires pulling up the whole thing, obligation included. And through that I just hope what's left is the good stuff. But yes, in a healthier relationship, obligation is essential - it helps us weather the bad times without running every time we get scared.

 

Wow times two! First because it's nice to hear something I'm saying is helping someone else. And second because your situation sounds SO MUCH like my own. I really hope you're able to shake up the mythology enough for her to see things from a different angle. If she's anything like my wife, it's going to be tough to get her there, but I still say it's worth the effort. I just mentioned this to her today, and she really didn't want to hear it. She's MORE than convinced that her whole side of things is the only way to look at it. To her credit, there are still times when she'll try to understand what I'm saying and/or what I think we need, but I have yet to see any change stem from that. I hope for better for you, though.

[emexiaAlete]

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[2sunny]

well - another week has passed. what has changed?

 

how are you participating differently in the marriage?

 

how has your change affected change in your wife(it always does). every reaction/ non reaction has affects on others - by what they do or don't do in adjusting to the change you bring.

 

what has that been looking like this past week?

[NickFeek]

well - another week has passed. what has changed?

 

how are you participating differently in the marriage?

 

how has your change affected change in your wife(it always does). every reaction/ non reaction has affects on others - by what they do or don't do in adjusting to the change you bring.

 

what has that been looking like this past week?

 

Thank you for checking in. I realized after several days of no postings that I've come to rely on this connection.

 

Things are much colder at home - fewer good moments & fewer conflicts. I have changed in that I'm not repeating the responses to crises she's used to me giving. I'm standing my ground, and that's making her see that this time around is very different. I think my wife is in a state of shock, because she's realizing it's highly likely the end is near.

 

We had a series of very deep discussions, and the takeaway points were: 1. She has confirmed she is dead set against counseling; 2. She says there will be no compromise on her work situation; 3. She feels like whatever work we might do would never bring her to the point where she could live with someone who cheated on her. Essentially all this adds up to her jumping off the boat without even picking up the oar. We've already started talking about what to do with living situations & the kids. It feels more like a dress rehearsal for the real thing, but something this hard I'm willing to give time.

 

Bottom line is we are both in a VERY different place than a week ago. I can barely think about the kids right now -too painful & scary. And there's still a big part of me that will miss my wife. Just very sad. But I'm also thinking about what life might be like "after the fall", so to speak, and I see rays of sunshine here & there.

[2sunny]

wow... it is surprising that you show her what is inevitable in the marriage and she simply turns away without a fight to make any of it different or better.

 

she's not jumping ship = she's never intended to be on that ship to begin with.

 

she's standing on the shore waving as you sail around on your own... kids in tow.

 

she hasn't intended to participate physically in the marriage... she just now has a good reason to blame someone else (you) for what she never intended to do anyway (be there physically).

 

i think what you may find when you let go of the delusion - of her role she plays - is that life will be easier and more manageable when you let go of the battle... the battle of her being there when she's actually not really there to begin with.

 

she pretends a lot - pretends to participate - pretends to care - pretends to be involved = but what she actually offers is a lie - because she's not DOING anything to participate except give you lip service = and that is NOT participating... that is just trying to support her lies.

 

let her have her work = it's obviously more important to her than her family.

 

some people are this way. you can't make her change. you can accept that this IS her way... then move forward.

 

to let go of what drags us down is very freeing... kind of like watching a bird go from flapping and flapping its' wings = to moving towards watching a bird float along with no effort... riding a thermal...no effort, no battle... just effortless and happy.

 

i'd get busy letting go of her energy that's dragging you down and making you have to flap your wings with vigorous effort.

[NickFeek]

wow... it is surprising that you show her what is inevitable in the marriage and she simply turns away without a fight to make any of it different or better.

 

she's not jumping ship = she's never intended to be on that ship to begin with.

 

the battle of her being there when she's actually not really there to begin with.

 

she's not DOING anything to participate except give you lip service = and that is NOT participating... that is just trying to support her lies.

 

to let go of what drags us down is very freeing... kind of like watching a bird go from flapping and flapping its' wings = to moving towards watching a bird float along with no effort... riding a thermal...no effort, no battle... just effortless and happy.

 

i'd get busy letting go of her energy that's dragging you down and making you have to flap your wings with vigorous effort.

 

I pulled out the quotes that really hit me.

 

It really is surprising to me that she IS turning away without a fight. I would have expected that in the time of deepest crisis for us she'd let go of her usual stubbornness, but no.

 

Do you really believe she never intended to be on the ship to begin with? It's a question I've asked myself over & over through the years. One thing I think might illustrate this is something that's always bothered me. She has said to me countless times over the years that she's always waiting for the "other shoe to drop". In my weakest & most guilt-ridden states, I interpreted that as me being untrue to her & weak-willed in relation to the marriage, and that since I HAVE messed up here & there I was setting a precedent that would always make her unsure of where I stood. Now I believe some of that may be true, but just yesterday it hit me why this declaration of hers has always bothered me. I know that when I feel like another shoe might drop, it's either because of something I did that I shouldn't have, or something I neglected to do that I SHOULD have. So I applied this to her, and she is unquestionably in the second category. So what I'm realizing is that feeling she has comes as much from her as it does from me - maybe even more.

 

I have pleaded with her for so long to bring out & show me with action what she says she feels, and it seems like she can only do what SHE thinks is right. I guess objectively that's okay, but then that means we're just not a good match. It shouldn't be so hard for her to do things that make me happy, especially if what I'm asking is pretty run of the mill, and I'm not a violent person.

 

The bird analogy really hit home with me. Looking in from partially outside now, I can feel the burden I've been carrying. I can also feel the burden she's been carrying, and why it would be just as desirable to her to want to get out from under it. It's possible that we both might be better off.

[2sunny]

ok- so she's telling you that while your ship is intending to sail away - she's on a different ship (work, work, work) waving at you from her ship - while your ship pulls away.

 

go! she's not doing anything to stop you. start exploring on that ship. start checking out the islands around you.

 

she's not interested - at all! get busy living! she's stuck being perfectly happy with her work - just realize she WANTS to blame YOU - don't allow that - remind her that SHE had choices too... and she made her choices perfectly clear with her actions (work, work, work).

 

since all she can consider is working - get busy living.

[NickFeek]

That's all true. I have to say it hurts that right in the middle of all this she hasn't taken off any time from work, hasn't cut back her hours, has barely changed anything. I know everyone needs to get lost in work now & then, but this is DO OR DIE time and she's mostly gone. And while that's not different from how things usually are, it hurts so much more when I know that SHE KNOWS how dire the situation is. As you say, it does seem like proof positive that she's making her choice.

[2sunny]

That's all true. I have to say it hurts that right in the middle of all this she hasn't taken off any time from work, hasn't cut back her hours, has barely changed anything. I know everyone needs to get lost in work now & then, but this is DO OR DIE time and she's mostly gone. And while that's not different from how things usually are, it hurts so much more when I know that SHE KNOWS how dire the situation is. As you say, it does seem like proof positive that she's making her choice.

 

that's just it - she doesn't intend to participate or change a thing.

 

so you either accept it and know what she offers... or change it for yourself knowing that SHE won't change a thing.

 

it hurts now... but after you change it - and get comfortable with what happy looks like for YOU - it won't be as painful after you get to the other side... it will look happy on the other side.