Are we lovers or aren't we?

[myjot]

What "void" does your lover fill that your husband does not?

 

I wish I knew.

[jnj express]

You are all missing one rather large point---THIS WOMAN HAS CHILDREN

 

So mrs cheater what do you intend to tell your kids, if/when you get "OUTED"

 

What do you intend to tell them as they get shuttled back and forth---or since you are in your 40's and they may be older---what do you intend to tell them, as to the example their mother sets for them----or are you gonna tell them, to act like whores, sluts, trollops, or whatever you wanna call the type of person who does what you do

[Pillow]

It`s true humans have not evolved for monogamy.

 

This is overall the best argument against monogamy.

 

Find me an evolutionary biologist who publishes a paper saying we are wired for monogamy and I`ll show you a biologist who got his/her PHD at a diploma mill.

 

However, we aren`t wired for most of the cultural traits we hold dearest, the traits that brought us well past any other animal on this planet.

 

We aren`t wired to live in the compact city/cultures that we live in.

Yet we live in them and thrive in them.

We aren`t wired to care for our young for decades (Men aren`t wired to care for young at all).

Yet we do care for our young for decades and because of this they are able to thrive in those city/cultures we live in.

We aren`t wired to eat, farm, consume most of the things we consume.

Yet these things have led to our species dominating this planet for millennia.

We aren`t wired for the many social constructs that keep us and our families safe within our cultures.

Yet without these social constructs the rule would be might makes right and most of us would be at the mercy of warlords.

 

Humans are where we are because we had one little evolutionary advantage that allowed us to go waaaaayyy beyond what our biology ever intended.

 

Our intelligence enabled us to overcome our animalistic evolutionary urges to build something great (arguably) and to make it safe to live within it.

 

We are at a point where our evolutionary biology no longer drives our culture.

Our culture now drives our evolution.

This is an amazing thing if you think about it.

 

If we can`t overcome our most basic animalistic urges we`re really nothing more than primates.

 

I like to think we`re more than that but I`m biased.

 

 

 

There isn`t much to that thought process.

His body is telling him he wants you.

His mind is telling him you`re dangerous as hell as far as his life goes.(Wife/kids)

He will probably try to find a way to have you and mitigate the danger.

 

Pursuing him will get you more from him.

Pursuing him to hard will push him away from you out of fear.

The best thing for you to do to continue this affair is to simply be available to him.

 

I`m more interested in the "void" you speak of that he fills.

 

 

 

EXCELLENT POST! I just had to comment because I am so sick of the "not a man's biology" tirade people go on to justify their behavior. Obviously, these people have not read how much science can be constructed to reflect a person's biases!!

[nyrias]

EXCELLENT POST! I just had to comment because I am so sick of the "not a man's biology" tirade people go on to justify their behavior. Obviously, these people have not read how much science can be constructed to reflect a person's biases!!

 

I don't know how "explaining" becomes "justifying" in this discussion. It is like saying that the "drug trade" causes a lot of murders .. is a way to justify murders. I just don't get it.

 

We are evolved to like sugar. That is why there are so many obese people. Is this a way to justify eating unhealthy food .. NO. However, it does provide a reason of *why* people want unhealthy food, and the understanding may even help to find a solution (i.e. artificial sweetening .. we like that taste .. give that to people without making them fat).

 

Why is this discussion different? It is obvious that there are *some* reason(s) why people want to cheat. You can say whatever that reason is .. is a justification.

[linwood]

What does your lover fill that your husband does not?

 

I wish I knew.

 

You should think about that.

Consider the reasons behind your feelings concerning your desires.

 

If you can`t even relate what your lover offers you that you need so badly.

Is it something that you really need?

Does this mysterious "thing" even exist or is it something else?

[OldOnTheInside]

You should think about that.

Consider the reasons behind your feelings concerning your desires.

 

If you can`t even relate what your lover offers you that you need so badly.

Is it something that you really need?

Does this mysterious "thing" even exist or is it something else?

 

^This.

 

Some questions for the OP:

 

You're currently in a "limbo" now, right? How long do you intend to stay like this? I'm sure you realise that this two-man-deal is unlikely to last forever. Every time you the two of you cheat the potential of discovery is increased (it certainly doesn't decrease or stay unchanging). One little mistake and it is all over. The **** hits the fan.

 

What do you think is going to happen if you get caught? A happy ending for all involved? For your family and his? Why continue walking down such a self-destructive path? All humans have the potential to be self-destructive and many are...but all humans have the potential to control our self-destructive desires too. Isn't that evolution has given us? High enough levels of intelligence and sentience so that we can control and manipulate our biological imperatives and behaviour? Don't tell me that "human nature" is enough of a justification for you, unless you believe that you have no self control.

 

But enough Biology fluff...

 

Read the questions that linwood asked you and really think about them.

Are you afraid of what you might find out? Do you really want to see the skeletons that lie in your closet? Or do you already (deep down) know why you're having an affair? Maybe you don't like the answer and what it says about you.

 

My advice: Go NC with the OM, get some counselling, find out why you're doing what you're doing (hopefully the answer isn't "because I want to"), and learn from the experience. I know it is easier said than done, but would you rather stay in limbo for the rest of your life?

[djhall]

I didn't read any of the other responses, since I can predict where most of them will go. However, to answer your actual question, I don't find anything confusing about his behavior as it seems fairly obvious that he wants this as he keeps coming back, but that he doesn't want to lose his family over it and knows this is a line he can't uncross once he goes through with it. As a result, he tugs back and forth between pulling away out of fear and guilt and pulling you closer out of sexual desire.

 

If you are friends with this guy and with his spouse, perhaps you should consider how you would feel if you were a participant in the destruction of his marriage and family before going any further with this. That is obviously something his isn't quite willing to throw away, and it is a very possible outcome of this course of action.

[confusedinkansas]

I don't know how "explaining" becomes "justifying" in this discussion. It is like saying that the "drug trade" causes a lot of murders .. is a way to justify murders. I just don't get it.

 

We are evolved to like sugar. That is why there are so many obese people. Is this a way to justify eating unhealthy food .. NO. However, it does provide a reason of *why* people want unhealthy food, and the understanding may even help to find a solution (i.e. artificial sweetening .. we like that taste .. give that to people without making them fat).

 

Why is this discussion different? It is obvious that there are *some* reason(s) why people want to cheat. You can say whatever that reason is .. is a justification.

 

I'm only commenting to say - you'll never win this battle.

I've tried so many times it makes my head hurt. It's impossible to try to 'explain', 'reason', 'justify' anything to a BS. They see EVERYTHING you say as a justification for what you did.

WE (I) know the difference. They never will.

[John Michael Kane]

I'm only commenting to say - you'll never win this battle.

I've tried so many times it makes my head hurt. It's impossible to try to 'explain', 'reason', 'justify' anything to a BS. They see EVERYTHING you say as a justification for what you did.

WE (I) know the difference. They never will.

 

The problem is that cheaters are the ones who will forever refuse to learn from their actions, not the BSs.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm only commenting to say - you'll never win this battle.

I've tried so many times it makes my head hurt. It's impossible to try to 'explain', 'reason', 'justify' anything to a BS. They see EVERYTHING you say as a justification for what you did.

WE (I) know the difference. They never will.

 

Every, single BS on the planet has succumbed to this 'blindness?'

 

Or could there be something in the delivery?

[dreamingoftigers]

The problem is that cheaters are the ones who will forever refuse to learn from their actions, not the BSs.

 

I think that thomasb is one exception to this.

[John Michael Kane]

I think that thomasb is one exception to this.

 

No cheater is an exception.

[dreamingoftigers]

No cheater is an exception.

 

Thomasb didn't learn from his actions and he doesn't currently encourage people not to cheat?

[John Michael Kane]

Thomasb didn't learn from his actions and he doesn't currently encourage people not to cheat?

 

Exactly.:o

[confusedinkansas]

Every, single BS on the planet has succumbed to this 'blindness?'

 

Or could there be something in the delivery?

 

Must be the delivery because I didn't say every single BS. I think on this forum MOST BS's don't want to hear that there are reasons & they don't want to hear the other side of the story.

 

The problem is that cheaters are the ones who will forever refuse to learn from their actions, not the BSs.

Not true. Many here - myself included have learned a great deal & would never have another affair.

[Memphis Raines]

The problem is that cheaters are the ones who will forever refuse to learn from their actions, not the BSs.

 

Not true. Many here - myself included have learned a great deal & would never have another affair.

 

yet you don't regret your affair and wouldn't change anything if you had to do it all over again.

 

doesn't sound like a lesson learned to me.

[ladydesigner]

The problem is that cheaters are the ones who will forever refuse to learn from their actions, not the BSs.

 

Oh I learned from my actions BIGTIME. I can say I will never cheat again. Having been on both sides (A BS first who committed a revenge affair), there is no way in hell I would EVER have an A again. I know the slippery slope, the guilt, the loss of integrity, the ick factor alone now is enough for me.

 

I think cheaters can change and learn from their actions.

[confusedinkansas]

yet you don't regret your affair and wouldn't change anything if you had to do it all over again.

 

doesn't sound like a lesson learned to me.

 

Nope - Because even as my counselor once said. My husband was one that needed 'shocked back to reality.' (I've actually had 2 counselors tell me this) That didn't mean much to me at the time I was in counseling - but as I look back on things I realize maybe that's 'in part' why I did what I did. He wouldn't hear me. Didn't want to listen.

This got him to see what he could have lost if he would have kept at the things he was doing.

So now, in hindsite I wouldn't change it because it's brought us closer. Much closer than we were before.

 

But with that said - It does not mean I'm going back to the A ever again. No Way Jose'. It may have worked the first time - but I would do things differently if we ever hit the kinds of bumps we were going thru at that time..............So, YEP Lesson Learned!!

[Memphis Raines]

Nope - Because even as my counselor once said. My husband was one that needed 'shocked back to reality.' (I've actually had 2 counselors tell me this) That didn't mean much to me at the time I was in counseling - but as I look back on things I realize maybe that's 'in part' why I did what I did. He wouldn't hear me. Didn't want to listen.

This got him to see what he could have lost if he would have kept at the things he was doing.

So now, in hindsite I wouldn't change it because it's brought us closer. Much closer than we were before.

 

But with that said - It does not mean I'm going back to the A ever again. No Way Jose'. It may have worked the first time - but I would do things differently if we ever hit the kinds of bumps we were going thru at that time..............So, YEP Lesson Learned!!

 

so then you didn't mean it when you said you wouldn't do anything differently if you could do it all again?

[confusedinkansas]

The A changed the dynamic of my marriage over the course of time - I believe in a positive way, however; I still would never have another A. Ever.

 

I didn't know at the time how it was going to affect us. Frankly, at the time, didn't really care. I'm glad that things worked out the way they did - obviously. Even with what I know now, I still don't believe that having an affair is the answer. I never cheer anyone on that's having one or had one.

My perspective as the WS - it's too painful for me. If I were to even consider it - I know that I couldn't handle the adrenaline rush now. I don't have the time or energy for one & mostly I couldn't handle looking my husband in the eye now.

 

What you may not realize - My affair happened many years ago. My point of view is more removed & not nearly as raw as most posters here. That's why I post here. I personally think that I'm a little more objective.

[confusedinkansas]

I started posting here because myjot's situation was familiar to me.

My XAP used to do the same damn thing. On again & Off again. Blew like the wind.

 

I think it's a standard behavior for someone that's into an affair so deep that they don't know what to do with themselves. I think even though we talked about never leaving our spouses he became more attached than I did.

 

Weirdly enough - My XAP used to tell me "I wish my wife would just have an affair then she'd be out of my hair & I could spend more time with you"

Well....he got his wish. She was in the middle of an affair at the same time ours was going on. But ironically enough the minute he found that out he cut things off with me. Said he couldn't trust women anymore. I mean, really!! WTF is that about - Anyway she did divorce him for the other guy.

 

So, see....the things that we/they say during an affair often times makes no sense. We don't think clearly when we're in the 'heat of the moment' so to speak.

 

Myjot - After my last post I scrolled back thru the thread & I see you haven't posted in a while. Do you have an update? Are you still in the affair now?

[Entropy3000]

I am new to this (or any) forum, so pls forgive me if my post is out of context.

We have known each other since grade 9, we are know both 42. Two years ago he said "hello" online via social network. Simply innocent and brief at that time. Then last May he laid it on thick and he captured my attention, which is hard to do. He persued me relentlessly and I fell for it hook line and sinker. Our on-line chats lead to very few phone calls--he called me--I never made the first move. Then we met in person--we kissed and that was it! We both wanted more. We slowly and carefully nurtured our fantasy. We met locally only a few times, each time wanting more, but unable to see it through (very brief encounters). The more physical we became...the more careful we became about chats and texts (we agreed to end the playful banter). Finally after 8 months of talking about it, we met out of town. We were both wanting each other badly, but both also knew how serious our actions were.

A short time after that meeting his contact with me has become much less. He admits he is afraid to get caught (no kidding!). We are both married with families. We have many friends in common including our spouses. We are clear with each other that our relationship is strickly about sex. We have no interest in changing our lives for each other.

My issue lately his his hot/cold interest in me. He is always friendly, but not always playful. He will not always say "hi", and then he will ask to call me and ask when I will be out of town next. We agreed to lay off the hot talk chats, and texts...but he claims he still wants to "hang and play" out of town. Just last week we spoke twice, yet he could not meet me away. (altho, I never expect he always will)

I am willing! Is he? Really? I want this!! But not sure how the game works.

 

Keep in mind, we both realize the seriousness of our actions, we have discussed this plenty. I am not looking to be told how awful I am for being involved with this situation. I know!!! I just want greater understanding of him.

I am especially interested in hearing from married men who have had or are having an affair with no desire to leave their home life. Do I patiently pursue?

 

I think you should discuss this with your husband. Tell him you do not believe in monogamy and is it ok if you open your marriage to others for the fun that it brings. Who knows he may say go for it. Otherwise you are disrespecting your husband and your marriage. You don't care I know but I am suggesting a way you can pursue your life in the way that makes you happy. IF there is no way you can share this with your husband then that should give you your answer. We know you won't.