EnigmaXOXO Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 When we talk about it she just gets pissed and says its not an issue because she rarely does it (3 times a month). Mav Writes: Whe she goes out she stays out until about 1pm but once she didnt get home until 3 and once 5..............thats when I really got pissed. Juggs, don't have the energy to debate opinions. But I DID take the time to read the original posts TWICE before responding...as well as all the follow-ups. Always do! Link to post Share on other sites
Juggs Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 DOH! Got it, thanks for catching that 'cause I missed it. Link to post Share on other sites
genie Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I agree with the posts that tell you to beware and pay attention. My marriage, which is now over, started with me going out. I was not happy at home, but I don't think I realized that until way after the marriage was over. I can look back and see what happened, I couldn't see it when I was involved in it. I would have never admitted that I was not happy at home. I was overwhelmed with responsibilities, children and a controlling husband. I would go out with the girls and I was so at peace. It got where I was out more and more, or if I wasn't out, I sure wanted to be. He also was going out elsewhere. I never had an affair, (I later found out he had several), but I do think I was looking for positive attention that I wasn't getting at home. I do believe that the going out was the beginning of our ending. I would advice to get some counseling or go do things together. The going out to clubs seperately will definitely not help the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mav2112 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 Quote.......I think it’s one thing if you knowingly enter into a committed relationship with someone who likes to go out and party. Those are the conditions you accept and compromise on from the onset. But it’s a whole different matter when someone suddenly decides to redefine those relationship boundaries without considering their partner’s feelings or how it will adversely affect the dynamics of that relationship. Thats what I am having a hard time with.......I thought the boundaries were laid out after 2 years of dating but I guess I was wrong. Another thing is that in a lot of these replys everyone is saying to let her know how I feel..(i think I have)......I think after being with someone for 4 years it isnt very hard to tell when your spouse does'nt like something. She has to know it bothers me........we know each other to well for her to not realize this Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by mav2112 Another thing is that in a lot of these replys everyone is saying to let her know how I feel..(i think I have)......I think after being with someone for 4 years it isnt very hard to tell when your spouse does'nt like something. She has to know it bothers me........we know each other to well for her to not realize this I get the impression that you feel that because you 2 have known each other for several years, and you feel you know each other well, that you're ASSUMING she knows how you feel about all this, and that you've not really sat right down and openly told her how this sudden bar-behavior makes you feel. You can't expect her to read your mind. Communication is key. Maybe she's really in the dark about how you feel? Maybe she doesn't even THINK you care that she goes out? Don't assume she knows your feelings on the matter......you need to clearly communicate your feelings to her, ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by sportsloving We don't know if she is going out to dance... they could be going to a bar, having a drink, talking and laughing and NOT paying attention to anyone else. The thing is, unless he asks her what she is doing, I doubt he knows either. I wasn't referring to the original poster's situation in my response that mentioned the "dancing" thing. The "dancing" reference was in response to supersleuth's assertion that my stance on his situation was "BS"...it was her who mentioned that she herself is married (yet going through a divorce) and does go out to bars with girlfriends, to dance, and she doesn't cheat (guess she was trying to point out that just because a married woman goes out to dance at a bar, it doesn't necessarily mean she's cheating). And to those who've replied stating they have no problem with their spouse going out with the "girls" or "boys" to the bar/clubs, that's all well and good if BOTH spouses are fine with it.....but that doesn't apply to this guy's situation...because he clearly DOESN'T feel comfortable with it. This isn't an issue, really, about whether it's "right" or "okay" for married people to go out to bars with their friends, it's about what a spouse does if his wife suddenly changes behavior and begins doing something she never did before, and he doesn't feel secure about it. Link to post Share on other sites
advice Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I don't believe that clubs are really a place for married individuals to being hanging out in with their friends. Clubs are designed to meet people and when you are married you shouldn't be engaged in that type of activity. If I were you, I would insist that if my wife wanted to go to a club, then she should go with you. Not with her girl friends. If you guys want to go have a night out together, dance, and hang out...that is one thing. But there is no way I would agree with her going out with her friends to a place where the sole purpose for "most people" is to meet other people of the opposite sex. It is absolutely inappropriate in my opinion. Your happiness and comfort should be more important then a night out with the girls. Therefore, she should respect you on this. Link to post Share on other sites
sportsloving Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by befuddled11 I wasn't referring to the original poster's situation in my response that mentioned the "dancing" thing. The "dancing" reference was in response to supersleuth's assertion that my stance on his situation was "BS"...it was her who mentioned that she herself is married (yet going through a divorce) and does go out to bars with girlfriends, to dance, and she doesn't cheat (guess she was trying to point out that just because a married woman goes out to dance at a bar, it doesn't necessarily mean she's cheating). I apologize~ Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by advice I don't believe that clubs are really a place for married individuals to being hanging out in with their friends. Clubs are designed to meet people and when you are married you shouldn't be engaged in that type of activity. If I were you, I would insist that if my wife wanted to go to a club, then she should go with you. Not with her girl friends. If you guys want to go have a night out together, dance, and hang out...that is one thing. But there is no way I would agree with her going out with her friends to a place where the sole purpose for "most people" is to meet other people of the opposite sex. It is absolutely inappropriate in my opinion. Your happiness and comfort should be more important then a night out with the girls. Therefore, she should respect you on this. Absolutely, clubs are a meat market. The men are looking to score, and the women are their to be prey. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions in the here thread. She has just started wanting to go out to the bars maybe 3 time a month with her girlfriends. It is starting to really bother me for some reason. I think I trust her but really dont feel comfortable with her out. This wasnt a problem I could forsee when we were thinking about getting married.I didnt see this side of her as it has started happening the last six months. I really dont want a wife who likes to go out without me. When we talk about it she just gets pissed and says its not an issue because she rarely does it (3 times a month). I dont know if I should just let her have her way and not fight it, but in the back of my mind I have never thought clubs and bars were the best atmosphere for married people without there spouses. Some people are talking about going clubbing or to meat-market sort of places. I think we need more info before we start making ASSUMPTIONS. It could be the lounge at the local Hilton, which is a far cry from the downtown thumpa thumpa bar. So please, MAV, where is she going with her freinds? I mean if she's going for wine or mantinis to mellow lounge typoe place, the local pub, a meat market, or a disco. Either way, more talk, less accusation folks. Link to post Share on other sites
aroseInLove Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I absolutely love my guy more than life and I wouldn't give a guy in a club eye-to-eye contact.. nor would I anywhere on this earth.. though I have girl friends that sometimes want to meet at a club.. it's better than hogging down food all the time and being tempted by desert menus.. well, that's my take ... I miss my friends I don't otherwise get to see.. we share work stories.. we laugh.. ..sometimes we dance.. and we don't get drunk.. in fact, I only drink wine when I'm with my guy.. otherwise I drink seltzer w/lime.. that's it.. Though it might possibly be a meat market.. it's no meat market to me.. or for me.. It's 100% honest.. and IF I marry this beautiful sweet man of my dreams I would listen to his heart because I wouldn't want that weight on his great shoulders, but I'd have to tell him that I'd be crushed to not see my friends if that's the meeting place.. and I would devastate if my man thought of it as some kind of 'cheating' opportunity and if he faulted me for wanting to meet my friends at a club.. But then again, this guy I love knows me.. he knows me so very well.. he knows my heart.. and knows I give no guy the slightest most remote chance of personal contact ..no matter WHERE I am... Do you know this as a quality in you wife? I don't mean to be rude.. but is she truly truly so very IN LOVE with you OR is she nonchalant in your married world?.. Does she say she misses her friends OR that she's looking for 'fun'? Even if it is fun, it's ok if, for instance, she loves to dance.. like myself.. and this is her only opportunity? All this makes a difference.. Do some soul searching to see the whole picture.. then follow your heart while you don't miss the chance to listen to HER heart that power over her words.. .. and follow that feeling in her kiss.. and in how she looks at you.. how she speaks to you... and you'll know.. Good luck.. Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by sumdude Seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions in the here thread. Some people are talking about going clubbing or to meat-market sort of places. I think we need more info before we start making ASSUMPTIONS. It could be the lounge at the local Hilton, which is a far cry from the downtown thumpa thumpa bar. So please, MAV, where is she going with her freinds? I mean if she's going for wine or mantinis to mellow lounge typoe place, the local pub, a meat market, or a disco. Either way, more talk, less accusation folks. Where are all of these assumptions being made, about the actual "type" of place his wife is going out to? He didn't say it was a martini bar. He didn't say it was a lounge at the Hilton. He didn't say it was the local neighborhood pub. He specifically stated "clubs and bars." It doesn't get more clear than that (see his quote below): should just let her have her way and not fight it, but in the back of my mind I have never thought clubs and bars were the best atmosphere for married people without there spouses. Reading, it really does work! Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 It doesn't get more clear than this...the original poster wrote: She has just started wanting to go out to the bars... A bar is a bar is a bar. The decor and the type of patrons who go there may vary, but it's still a bar. I've lived all over, I used to go to tons of bars when I was younger.....even into my late 20s. A bar, no matter where it is, is a meat-market.....where the goal is to pick someone up, or be picked up. A bar is not a quiet little classy lounge. A bar is not a nice place to get a good meal and converse with friends. A bar is a meat-market, no matter how you slice it. And why a married woman, despite her husband's discomfort with it, would go out several times a month with her single friends to a bar, out of the blue (when this wasn't behavior she had prior to marriage, or during the first half of the marriage), is not exactly a good thing. If she wants to "get out" with friends, why not go to a quiet lounge? Why not go to a restaurant? A coffee bar? A movie? Shopping? A play? Why a meat market? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 more talk, less accusation folks. Are you trying to spoil people's hobbies? Don't you know that this is a very common pastime on LS? Befuddled, not everybody defines 'bars and clubs' the way you do. Sumdude is right; to some people, 'bars and clubs' refers to high-end places where people can go to talk and visit if they want to. I attend a local 'singles' dance' regularly. I go just to dance. Yes, some people do try to pick people up, but a large part of the crowd does go just to dance - it is possible, you know, to not accept offers from men. Just because you may be in an environment where some people are trying to hook up does not mean that you have to. I still would be unlikely to do it myself, but in situations like that described by aroseInlove, where your pals like to go to those places and you might not see them otherwise, it should be possible to work out a compromise. I would only do it weeknights, though. Weekends would be a definite 'no'. Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Befuddled, not everybody defines 'bars and clubs' the way you do. Sumdude is right; to some people, 'bars and clubs' refers to high-end places where people can go to talk and visit if they want to. The way *I* do? Um, try the vast majority of people. When most people hear the term "bar" or "club", a very certain type of place comes to mind......places with music, booze and singles trying to "find" someone. Let's not play the semantics game. And does it really matter? Duh, no. The point of the matter is that this guy has a problem with WHEREVER IT IS his wife is going out to, til the wee hours of the morning, with her single (and newly divorced) female friends. Call it a bar, call it a club, define it however the hell ya like.....but it's the fact (god, I thought the original poster made it super clear) that his wife didn't do this kind of thing when they were dating......and only recently in their marriage did she start doing this...and it bothers him, he doesn't understand her sudden need to do this, and it upsets him and he's not sure how to deal with it. Goodness!! Link to post Share on other sites
befuddled11 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme I attend a local 'singles' dance' regularly. I go just to dance. Yes, some people do try to pick people up, but a large part of the crowd does go just to dance - it is possible, you know, to not accept offers from men. Just because you may be in an environment where some people are trying to hook up does not mean that you have to. What does the fact that you, a single woman who goes to "singles dances" have to do with this married guy's situation of his wife going out to places that are notoriously "singles" places? I don't see what bearing that has on anything. This man had a realistic expectation from the period prior to marrying his wife (when they were dating) that who she was was WHO SHE WAS..and that going out to "bars and clubs" with single girlfriends was not something she needed or wanted to do. Now, she's suddenly doing it......and it doesn't make sense to him, and she's not respecting his feelings. She leaves "at the last minute" (which is pretty transparent), and has been known to not come home until 1am, 3am and even 5am. I'm sure this wasn't what he bargained for when he married her. If she was doing this once in a blue moon, fine....but she's doing this a few times a month. God, how many times does it have to be explained? Moi, oh nevermind. Link to post Share on other sites
Juggs Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 My husband goes to strip clubs all the time... I have no problem with it... He goes to hang out with his friends and have guy fun. I know with every single ounce of my being that that is all he is doing. He comes home to me, he married me, he loves me. I see no problem with it at all. BUT.... That's just my point of view regarding my marriage. Bottom line is, if it bothers you and you have shared this with her in a reasonable and non-accusing way, then she should respect your wishes and at least try and compromise with you about it. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by befuddled11 It doesn't get more clear than this...the original poster wrote: A bar is a bar is a bar. The decor and the type of patrons who go there may vary, but it's still a bar. I've lived all over, I used to go to tons of bars when I was younger.....even into my late 20s. A bar, no matter where it is, is a meat-market.....where the goal is to pick someone up, or be picked up. A bar is not a quiet little classy lounge. A bar is not a nice place to get a good meal and converse with friends. A bar is a meat-market, no matter how you slice it. And why a married woman, despite her husband's discomfort with it, would go out several times a month with her single friends to a bar, out of the blue (when this wasn't behavior she had prior to marriage, or during the first half of the marriage), is not exactly a good thing. If she wants to "get out" with friends, why not go to a quiet lounge? Why not go to a restaurant? A coffee bar? A movie? Shopping? A play? Why a meat market? Maybe in your world but I've certainly been to and seen plenty of places where I go and others go with friends just to have some drinks and hang out. No picking up anyone. You know it completely possible in the real world that people just go out to a bar, pub etc to be out with friends and not to get laid. I'm in mid 30's so perhaps I go places people in thier late 20's don't go. You obviously have your notions and I mine. So be it. I just see some folk immediately jumping on both sides of something where the info is a bit slim. That it bothers MAV is obvious. It's all the hoopla that confuses the issues leading to greater befuddlement. Clearly he feels something might be up AND he states that maybe he's over reacting. But to assume that hanky panky is going on JUST because his wife is at a bar is not cool. And why a married woman, despite her husband's discomfort with it, would go out several times a month with her single friends to a bar, out of the blue (when this wasn't behavior she had prior to marriage, or during the first half of the marriage), is not exactly a good thing. Perhaps to give her friends moral support. Perhaps they now are able to see each other after a long period of separation. Who knows? The point is She's hurting her husband. He's feeling left out. She may be feeling like he wants control. Maybe something is going on. But it's wayyyy to soon to guess. I can easily go out with freinds to any place and still feel no desire or need to pick up anyone. I love my girl . Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Originally posted by befuddled11 The way *I* do? Um, try the vast majority of people. I didn't know you knew what EVERYONE thinks. Obviously you don't know what I think, and many many others. Either way, take care. Link to post Share on other sites
cabbie Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Communication.... just a quick thought- you noted that your wife just started wanting to go out to clubs. There is a reason for everything. Just as you are reacting to her wish for a reason. Are you making assumptions about why she wants to go out, or do you actually know why she is interested in going out. Maybe she wants some time out with her friends, the possibilities are endless. THe thing is to talk about it, therefore giving the message that what is paramount is understanding one another- not just dismissing her wish, rather, exploring it. And what is your thinking? Have to look within for that one. Personally, as a woman, I would hope that should some good day, I have a husband, that sure, he might feel a bit fretful about me wanting to be out, without him, but that he would also trust me, and be interested in my needs, wanting to know more about why I want what I want. I would hope that we would have our own separate interests and involvements, (non romantic and non sexual of course!), and that these would be things that would ultimately add to our relationship. We would be united, but not person. Hope we hear more from you on how this evolves... best wishes.... Link to post Share on other sites
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