Is this marriage savable?

[dreamingoftigers]

My younger sister has BPD.

 

She was sexually abused as a child. I first notice something was wrong when we were teens...she was bulimic and a cutter.

 

Her rages are unbelieable. Now in her early 30s, she has lost her husband, custody of her child, can't hold a job, and causes my parents stress and drama on a daily basis.

 

She is on disability for this disorder, so she does get free insurance. She has been hospitalized long term in one of the nation's best psych hospitals, has gotten DBT therapy...nothing has helped.

 

She only gets worse. Now she is an alcoholic in addition to the BPD, so you can imagine how bad it gets.

 

I know you love your wife, but BPD is not something that is easily treated. I know you can't see it now, but it is good that she left and it was HER idea. If YOU were leaving HER, it would be 24/7 drama, suicide threats, yelling & screaming, etc.

 

People with BPD are very hard to treat. A large number of them end up dying

from suicide. My sister has been taught coping skills, how to handle stress, tried numerous meds, in patient hospitalization... and when she gets in a rage, everything she has learned is forgotten. And all that comes out is craziness.

 

I know you are hurting, but a life with a BPD is not a happy life. They drag you down, make you question your sanity and suck the life right out of you. They can only focus on their own pain, and most of that pain is based upon irrational assumptions. Your life will be spent constantly trying to defend

yourself and trying to make her feel secure.

 

Hi there, I have seen you post up about your sister before, I have been diagnosed with BPD in my younger years and quite frankly, was very symptomatic including suicidal behaviors and addictive tendencies etc. Through fluke I ended up having EMDR therapy. DBT is a wonderful therapy but doing massive neural residing through behaviour is not anywhere near as successful as EMDR which is generally applied to PTSD.

 

BPD tends to be layers of PTSD rooted in childhood experience that the brain can't cope with.

 

Not being completely flooded with emotion is so amazing now. It us a very hard difference to try to explain to someone who doesn't have that issue. I can see now (probably in somewhat of a limited sense) how my behaviour affects others. I never thought I hurt anyone because I didn't "feel" like I did. But they could hurt me in so many ways. If one friend and another friend went without me somewhere I would feel pretty rejected/isolated/angry, completely flooded with it. Now it seems so nuts to even have that bother me in the slightest.

 

If your sister is that far gone, you have nothing to lose by suggesting EMDR. DBT practices could follow that but truly DBT is a skill set that should be applied after the majority of her triggers should be processed.

 

I am not claiming that I am "cured" but my stress response is 80% better and I can do day to day things without depending on another person to stabilize me and my insecurities moment to moment.

[Quiet Storm]

Thank you for suggestion. She has had EMDR and it hasn't helped, either. She has done okay while in Sheppard Pratt, and for a few weeks after she gets out but it quickly spirals down. Even with daily outpatient therapy. I understand many BPD are not as serious, but I did want the poster to be able to see that even with intense treatment, some BPD cannot be cured. It is not like bipolar where medication often makes an immediate difference. I think personality disorders go so deep, many times you can treat the behaviors but the thought processes are very hard to change.

[Le Corb]

I am just sick of this, sick of life. The only reason keeps me alive is I don't want her to get 100% of everything. I cannot live here anymore, the house is driving me insane, who is there to help you, nobody, you are always alone, the psychologist, the counselor cannot talk to you when you need them, when you call helplines what can they do, they just listen, and say to go your counselor in the morning. I am finished, there is just no way I can trust anyone ever again, life simply cannot go on like this anymore, without trust, after the court if it comes to that, I am donating everything to charity.

[heartshaped]

Le Corb, during this difficult time you need to rely on your family and friends and begin to start working on yourself. It sounds like you loved this woman very deeply and she's choosing to throw all of that away for whatever reason, but understand this wasn't your fault, there was nothing you could do to stop it, and you will be happy again. Just take things one day at a time and focus on yourself.

[Le Corb]

What kind of life is it without trust, I cannot even trust myself anymore, or anybody around me, no matter how much I love them and care for them, they can turn on you anytime, you have to be very careful, do not trust anymore, not even yourself. Believe me, DO NOT TRUST ANYONE, now I even feel like this when I am around families and friends.

[Olivia1966]

Sorry to tell you but you never ever loved her, even a little. You loved a fantasy, you loved the person you thought she was but she was never that person. Now you've just had a dose of reality, now you know who she is and who she was all along.

 

I have to dispute this. If she does have BPD, and, of course, so far there's evidence, but no diagnosis, one of the hallmarks of BPD is "markedly and persistently unstable self-image."

 

She may very well have been who he thought she was when they were together and still be someone very different now.

[fltc]

Olivia, the "someone very different" was always there.

 

Le Corb, time for some tough love!

 

Strip, stand in front of a mirror, lift your penis. That empty space is where your balls were before she took them but do not despair, when you go to court and whup her miserable butt the judge can restore your property, your self respect and your manhood.

 

Believe it or not, it's true so don't stall. Get angry, get FURIOUS at the way you've been treated and unleash the attack lawyers RIGHT NOW!

[Downtown]

Get angry, get FURIOUS at the way you've been treated and unleash the attack lawyers RIGHT NOW!

Le Corb, I agree with FLTC's statement above. ANGER will be your friend over the next year. For caregivers like us, our best chance of staying away from a BPD loved one and moving on is to get angry. We can use the anger as a crutch to walk away to safety. Once you've been safely away from your W for a year, you can kick that crutch aside. You no longer will need it.

 

I nonetheless am very concerned about your safety over the next few months due to your depression. Please hang in there, mate! Please do not give up on the therapy sessions or the meds. Whenever you start therapy with any psychologist, the first several sessions typically are not very useful because the psych will just ask questions and take notes. His guidance becomes much better when he's had time to get a sense of what your issues are. With sessions lasting only 50 minutes, that takes time. Hence, if you are only meeting once a week, please consider speeding the process up by scheduling meetings at least twice a week. Also, they have group sessions you can take at much lower cost -- to supplement the individual therapy sessions.

 

As to the meds, every person's body chemistry is unique. This is why it will take time for them to find an anti-depressant that works well for you. It is like fitting shoes and is as much of an art as it is a science. So please hang tough while your psychiatrist is trying different drugs at different strengths. Meanwhile, your feelings are so intense that your perceptions are severely distorted. This is true for everyone who is depressed. This is why depression is such a deadly thing to experience. It will make you feel like your family and friends would be better off without you. DON'T believe it for a minute! It is a feeling -- an intense painful feeling -- but it does not reflect reality.

 

If you have trouble sleeping and find yourself up late at night, remember that -- for those of us living on the other side of the planet here in the States or the UK -- it's the middle of the day. We therefore will respond to you at even odd hours (for Australia). Take care, Le Corb.

[Le Corb]

Do BPDer fake relationships? I found it hard to believe that how could one fake it for that long without anyone noticing? Now when I look back there were some hints, I was just naively thinking that it was related to the stress from the renovation.

 

Sometimes I am angry at her for what she did, and sometimes I think about all the good times we had and all the dreams we shared, it only brings tears to my eyes.

 

Should I give up all hope on reconciliation now?

[Downtown]

Do BPDer fake relationships?

Le Corb, before answering your question, it is important to emphasize that I do not know whether your W is a BPDer (i.e., exhibiting strong BPD traits). I have never met the young lady. In contrast, you know her a thousand times better than any other person on the planet. Hence, I have been encouraging you to read as much as you can about these traits and decide, for yourself, which ones apply. These traits are not hard to spot because there is nothing subtle about them.

 

The reason I believe so strongly it is worth your while to consider these traits is that, if you are describing your relationship accurately, her behavior is far from normal. That is, normal women do not keep running away from their H's and locking them out of the car before driving off. And normal women do not behave like they love you for 8 years and then, in an instant, treat you with the utter contempt and hatred pouring out of your W. As far as I know, the only women capable of such intense cruelty are BPDers or sociopaths.

 

As to your question, no, a BPDer would not fake a relationship for 8 years. Because a BPDer has a very weak, fragile sense of who she is, she does present a false self image to others so as to fit in and be loved. But, just like you, she would have meant it when she said she loved you and adored you. As I explained earlier, a BPDer does not start hating you because the love was fake. Rather, she starts hating you because she is unstable and does black-white thinking, wherein she will believe you are "all good" for a few days and then, in an instant, flip to believing you are "all bad." Moreover, the flip to "all bad" can become permanent, as occurred with my exW after 15 years.

 

If your W really did fake the entire 8 years, she would be exhibiting sociopath traits. A sociopath is perfectly capable of pretending to love someone for years and then walking away with his money. A friend of my family, for example, married a guy who doted on her and treated her sweetly for many years. Yet, as soon as he got his hands on every last dollar of her inheritance, he divorced her without any explanation whatsoever. To a sociopath, other people are just objects.

 

If that were the case with your W, however, you would have seen red flags during the 8 years that your W is capable of using people, winning their trust, and then dropping them like used tissue paper. You have mentioned nothing like that. Further, BPDers are far more common than sociopaths (thank goodness). This is why I suggested that you begin your reading with BPD traits to see if they apply.

 

You can do this, Le Corb. This is not rocket science. You will be able to make sense out of what now seems so totally incomprehensible to you. This is why I am encouraging you to stop wallowing in the pain and to start taking control of your life by collecting information. One way is to read about the traits of BPD (or perhaps Antisocial/Sociopathic PD). Another is to keep going to your therapist. After several worthless sessions of his asking questions and taking notes, he will eventually deliver if he is any good.

[marqueemoon4]

Do BPDer fake relationships? I found it hard to believe that how could one fake it for that long without anyone noticing? Now when I look back there were some hints, I was just naively thinking that it was related to the stress from the renovation.

 

Sometimes I am angry at her for what she did, and sometimes I think about all the good times we had and all the dreams we shared, it only brings tears to my eyes.

 

Should I give up all hope on reconciliation now?

 

I would... the sooner you do that you can start healing.

[Le Corb]

Thank you so much for your support once again. All of you have been very kind to me, thanks for listening. I am glad that I have someone to talk to here at anytime. There certainly have been many sleepless nights.

 

I have been trying to describe the relationship and what happened as accurate as possible. What she did with the frequent running and driving away were certainly not normal, after talking to some friends and professionals, for years I just dealt with it, thinking that it was just her way of dealing with stress, I should have seen this coming, considering how many times she has changed her study majors, and she does have a very strong tendency to give up if things get too hard, such as homework, problem with the house maintenance, long term friendships. It could also be related to being passive aggressive, as "IfIknewThen" suggested, she can cover up her emotions, while I think it is all fine, until she gets angry at me for no reason at all, then she would tell me about all the small things that happened months ago, such as I was too critical of her in term of her studies, telling her that not to play games and dance around in her study instead she should do some university homeworks; I told her not to burn the plastic handles of the pots and pans again and again when she cooks; I worried about her going to see a band because she would get home too late on the train; she will get angry at me a month or two later, for me telling her off, now it is all me controlling her life and verbal abuse, according to the Patricia Evans book that she is reading.

 

In term of sociopath, I did not see any patterns or red flags of her using people. After she left, she told me that she faked the relationship for months, in front of all of our families and friends, I certainly did not noticed a thing. She did try to ask my family to buy a business for us to run only a couple of months before she left, 1 week before she left she showed me this expensive house with the intention of purchasing, 3 months before we were bidding on another property, I am just glad that we did not win the auction. She said she waited until the renovation was finished, so the house can be listed on the market, or if I don't want to sell it my family should transfer the money to her account.

 

Now unlike what she wrote in the letter, the reasons why she left are no longer because of my anxiety and her wanting to be independent. It is because of that I was becoming more and more mentally unstable, I have been manipulative, playing word/mind games, I was a control freak and verbal abuser.

 

It seems like a combination of many things. I must admit that it takes two to tango, I do share my responsibilities in the breakup, perhaps I was too critical of her, I said many hurtful things when we had arguments, we spent too much time together and we lost ourselves? I should have listened to her more instead of offering solutions to her problems. In the past 8 years there was no communication from her when she felt unhappy, I could only find out after she got angry a week, a month or two later. Perhaps there is a different way to communicate, I still do not know... I hope I can at least learn something from this unfortunate situation.

 

Thanks again for listening.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Le Corb

[Owl]

I know that you've looked and found no evidence of cheating.

 

I also know that I'm probably going to bring down the wrath of many posters for bringing this up...

 

But there are several key things here that cause me to suspect that something like this is the case.

 

1. The "walkaway wife" issue. Women rarely exit a relationship without having another one already set up. I'm not attacking anyone with this statement...it just seems to me that it's a very common thing that women often leave FROM a relationship TO another relationship.

 

2. The "re-writing of marital history". This is a common element among cheaters...it's a mental defense mechanism they use to help themselves justify their actions. It makes them feel better for the choice that they're making now.

 

3. The "instant hostility of her family". Either she's convinced them that you're a threat to her well-being, or they're already enamoured with your replacement. This is a common reaction where they feel her actions are justified for some reason.

 

4. The complete lack of "buildup" to where things are at now. It came as a sudden change, not as a marriage slowly deteriorating. She was there one moment, and then totally gone the next, with no warning.

 

 

Just my thoughts...but there are many things here that lead me to believe that she's already got someone else lined up.

[fltc]

Le Corb, pay attention to Owl!

[Le Corb]

Last time I spoke to her, she told me that she is just too traumatized to enter another relationship...and cried... she said that she wants to die alone as an old lady with a lot of feral animals?!?... if I want to make it up to her, just pay her the amount that she is asking for at mediation.

 

I am still puzzled... what have I done? to make her this resentful, all I did was to protect her from the asbestos and making sure that it is safe for her and our future family. I told her not to do certain things and be safe.

 

At the end of the renovation she just wanted out, in the letter she left she said she does not want to re-partner or re-marry anytime time in the foreseeable future, she wants time to be independent...

 

Her whole family now thinks that I am mental, I have been controlling her life, verbally abusing her. Completely switched from the whole anxiety issue at the beginning of the breakup.

 

To me and everyone else there was indeed no buildup at all! to her it sounds like it has been like a volcano.

 

Last year she went on a 2 months holiday overseas with my family, I did not go. My mother noticed something different, like she did not buy me any presents, whenever my family were looking for something for me, she was either annoyed or did not want to have any inputs, at the end she was not willing to take back 1 thing for me in her suitcase.

 

If she is having an affair, she has certainly been hiding it quite well, together with her acting, if BPDers cannot act, she has done a very convincing job for months, if not at least a year in front of everyone. Now she has cut contacts with pretty much all of our friends.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Le Corb

[Quiet Storm]

My sister is BPD and she "acts". She tells long, detailed lies about many things. Once she even told her work that our mother died just to get off for a week. Imagine how my mom felt when she received sympathy flowers at the house for her own death?

 

However, I could not imagine my sister telling an eight year lie. She doesn't think that far ahead in the future. Everying is very day-by-day. Most of her lies are spur of the moment "get me out of trouble" lies or "need attention/ embellishment" lies. Many of her lies depend on her audience and what she wants them to believe about her. She is very chameleon-like. Many of her lies are for no reason whatsover, like she will say she went shopping when she went to the library.

 

She has fooled bosses, parents, cops...even her doctors with her lies.

 

I do think lying is a very big part of BPD, but I don't think it is cold, calucating, planning ahead kind of lies like with NPD. I think it is more like the lies a little kid tells...selfish, get me out of trouble/ make people like me kind of lies.

 

My sister behaves and acts like a teenager. I think many BPD's have this trait. Her rebelliousness, lying, drama, large displays of emotion, risk taking, manipulation, gossiping, very focused on friends and bf/gf relationships are all things teenagers do. It's like she got stuck in that stage and never grew up.

 

Keep in mind, this is just my experience with someone that has a definite BPD diagnosis, so it may not apply if your wife doesn't have this.

[Downtown]

the reasons why she left are... because I was becoming more and more mentally unstable, I have been manipulative, playing word/mind games, I was a control freak and verbal abuser.

BPDers cannot deal with the shame of having selfish and bad thoughts and therefore will project these thoughts and intentions onto their mates. With my exW, for example, I could practically read her mind at times by just observing the things she was accusing me of doing or thinking. Hence, if she is incorrect about your being this way, the likely explanation is that she is a BPDer -- because BPDers do exactly those things: manipulation, playing mind games, being extremely controlling, and being verbally abusive. In effect, then, she is accusing YOU of having strong BPD traits. What does your psychologist say? Has he stopped taking notes long enough to actually tell you anything yet?

Her whole family now thinks that I am mental, I have been controlling her life, verbally abusing her.

If she is a BPDer, you can ignore what her dysfunctional family thinks. Because BPDers suffer from a thought disorder, they actually BELIEVE all the nasty things they say about you to mutual friends and family. This is one reason they are so absolutely convincing to those people outside your family. The other reason is that they typically are superb actors, as I discuss below.

if BPDers cannot act, she has done a very convincing job for months, if not at least a year in front of everyone.

On the contrary, BPDers typically are superb actors. I never said they cannot act. What I said was that, when a BPDer has been showing you adoration and love for 8 years, that affection likely is real, not fake. The fake part, I noted above, is the false self image a BPDer projects. That is done because, lacking a sense of who she really is, she will try to figure out how other people expect her to behave and will act in that manner. This is not to say, however, that a BPDer would spend 8 years pretending to love someone she doesn't love. I therefore agree with what Quiet Storm says above. Edited May 23, 2011 by Downtown

[Le Corb]

It has been 10 weeks and 3 days, my psychologist is still taking notes, I just feel so empty, it seems like I don't belong to this world anymore, I cannot relate to anything around me, its very tiring.

 

Now I have all these different answers, and every time I ask her the answer changes, and getting more and more extreme, to the point "be careful on the road" is now verbal abuse...

 

I spent the whole day in bed today, I am just so tired, mediation is next month, I don't think I am ready to negotiate with her with financial settlement, she said her lawyer's proposal letter will arrive soon, I am expecting some outrageous claims.

 

Why didn't she talk to me? if she was that unhappy? I just don't understand. Why does she have to end this in a such brutal way? and let things build up to this point without having any heart to heart conversations.

 

I have never seen this side of her, heartless, calculated and greedy. I remember her asking my family to buy a cafe/restaurant for us to run just a couple of months before she left. Now she said she has been faking it all alone, it is just madness.

 

A lot of our friends started to put money together for me to fight the legal battle.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Le Corb

[Downtown]

It seems like I don't belong to this world anymore, I cannot relate to anything around me, its very tiring.

Living with an unstable woman is so disorienting and confusing that all the Non partners come stumbling out of those relationships feeling like the world is upside down. It is so common that BPDfamily.com (a site targeted to Nons like you and me) calls its forum community "Oz." It refers not to Australia but, rather, the Wizard of Oz. Indeed, that site even has an article explaining why its use of many Wizard of Oz metaphors is appropriate for anyone stumbling out of a BPDer relationship. The article is available at http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a122.htm.

Now I have all these different answers, and every time I ask her the answer changes, and getting more and more extreme, to the point "be careful on the road" is now verbal abuse...

Yes, that is how unstable women behave. And, if you say nothing to her, she will claim your silence is abusive.

I don't think I am ready to negotiate with her with financial settlement, she said her lawyer's proposal letter will arrive soon, I am expecting some outrageous claims.

That's why you are hiring an attorney. He sees outrageous claims every day at work. It is no big deal for him to handle.

A lot of our friends started to put money together for me to fight the legal battle.

You are very fortunate to have loyal friends who will help when you are down. If you had killed yourself that night in the woods, they would be suffering right now -- along with your family. So when you get that "everyone is better off without me" feeling, don't believe it. It is the depression talking and it will eventually pass. And your psychologist will soon start talking instead of writing. If he doesn't, switch to another one. You can do this, mate.

[robf1971]

It has been 10 weeks and 3 days, my psychologist is still taking notes, I just feel so empty, it seems like I don't belong to this world anymore, I cannot relate to anything around me, its very tiring.

 

Now I have all these different answers, and every time I ask her the answer changes, and getting more and more extreme, to the point "be careful on the road" is now verbal abuse...

 

I spent the whole day in bed today, I am just so tired, mediation is next month, I don't think I am ready to negotiate with her with financial settlement, she said her lawyer's proposal letter will arrive soon, I am expecting some outrageous claims.

 

Why didn't she talk to me? if she was that unhappy? I just don't understand. Why does she have to end this in a such brutal way? and let things build up to this point without having any heart to heart conversations.

 

I have never seen this side of her, heartless, calculated and greedy. I remember her asking my family to buy a cafe/restaurant for us to run just a couple of months before she left. Now she said she has been faking it all alone, it is just madness.

 

A lot of our friends started to put money together for me to fight the legal battle.

 

When my wife did the same I thought about BPD, sociopath, etc but you know what she was genuinelly unhappy and had been letting it simmer for 2 years. So it seemed 1 day she was all happy, the next it was "ILYB" speech.

 

This is how it always works, there was a lack of communication in your relationship as there was in mine. Please listen to me, stop trying to analyse her possible illnesses or reasons etc.

 

The only way my relationship turned around was my actions,

 

I stopped initiating relationship conversations, I stood up to her BS, firmly not being a jerk, I started acting happy and doing stuff on my own, even though inside I was cracking up just like you now. I made damn sure there was no infidelity going on. I stopped initiating any affection, as I knew it would be brushed off.

 

You need to do this, start acting as if all will be ok, and maybe in a few months you will genuinelly feel it. Your wife wants to have BPD, ADD orr BBB or any other acronym? Let her, good for her. You do what makes YOU happy.

 

All her ridiculous demands, can be answered, by " Thats for the lawyers to decide" That needs to be your stock answer to her. Keep doing this and she will stop bothering you anymore.

[Le Corb]

When my wife did the same I thought about BPD, sociopath, etc but you know what she was genuinelly unhappy and had been letting it simmer for 2 years. So it seemed 1 day she was all happy, the next it was "ILYB" speech.

 

This is how it always works, there was a lack of communication in your relationship as there was in mine. Please listen to me, stop trying to analyse her possible illnesses or reasons etc.

 

The only way my relationship turned around was my actions,

 

I stopped initiating relationship conversations, I stood up to her BS, firmly not being a jerk, I started acting happy and doing stuff on my own, even though inside I was cracking up just like you now. I made damn sure there was no infidelity going on. I stopped initiating any affection, as I knew it would be brushed off.

 

You need to do this, start acting as if all will be ok, and maybe in a few months you will genuinelly feel it. Your wife wants to have BPD, ADD orr BBB or any other acronym? Let her, good for her. You do what makes YOU happy.

 

All her ridiculous demands, can be answered, by " Thats for the lawyers to decide" That needs to be your stock answer to her. Keep doing this and she will stop bothering you anymore.

 

How did you reconcile with your wife? We are not living together anymore, it is hard to communicate, now she only wants to talk about financial settlement. I don't think she will contact me anymore, its all too little too late according to her.

[robf1971]

How did you reconcile with your wife? We are not living together anymore, it is hard to communicate, now she only wants to talk about financial settlement. I don't think she will contact me anymore, its all too little too late according to her.

 

As in my reply, I just accepted it. Le Corb, people do things all the time they regret later. Nothing is guaranteed, your wife may or may not come back to you.

 

However you need to stand up to her, not give in to her ridiculous financial requests, let the lawyers handle it. Stop being a victim, you have a choice..

[Owl]

LeCorb, I think you're setting yourself up.

 

You keep calling your wife a BPD'er, as though she's got a diagnosis of this in hand.

 

It's like you've got a major need to convince yourself that this is why she's behaving the way she is.

 

She's behaving the way she is because that's how she's chosen to act/live.

 

As I'd mentioned...I don't know if BPD or infidelity are contributing factors or not here...but my experience and time spent here leads me to suspect that at some point you're going to find out that there is someone else in the picture.

 

Regardless of all that...at this point you need to stop worrying about what's motivating her, and focus instead on protecting yourself from her.

[Le Corb]

I am not a medical professional, I cannot diagnose anyone, whether she has BPD or not, its just a possible explanation suggested here.

 

So many things just don't make sense, I am just searching for answers why, since it happened so suddenly, and there was no buildup.

 

I don't know how I can find out whether there is someone else in the picture, if there is she has certainly covered it well.

[marqueemoon4]

I am not a medical professional, I cannot diagnose anyone, whether she has BPD or not, its just a possible explanation suggested here.

 

So many things just don't make sense, I am just searching for answers why, since it happened so suddenly, and there was no buildup.

 

I don't know how I can find out whether there is someone else in the picture, if there is she has certainly covered it well.

 

You also have to accept you probably won't get all the answers you want, and if you do, you probably won't like them.