He's abusive, I'm scared.

[Art_Critic]

Hey Kaito... you sound like a very strong woman... keep the strength while you go thru this.

 

You would put his name on the storage locker and his address and then you prepay the first month upfront.

That gives him time to go get it and it leave you off the hook for payment.

 

Keep posting and you are in my thoughts...

**hugz**

[betterdeal]

Your dog has a taste for blood. In my experience, that means they need putting down, but I haven't been involved in animal welfare for over a decade. Training may have improved since then. Call the Blue Cross or other animal charity and ask for advice.

 

Regards storage, you'll have to talk to the storage company. Maybe paying for a fixed period is all you need to do. After that, they may sell the contents to recoup losses, but you have to find out from them. Keep a written record. If he doesn't collect in a certain period, it may be that it becomes yours legally. Check with experts on that. I suggest you give the key to a third party you trust, such as your supervisor or father. Then you eliminate some contact with him and he deals with someone he won't bully.

[johan]

Your dog has a taste for blood. In my experience, that means they need putting down, but I haven't been involved in animal welfare for over a decade.

 

What dog doesn't? Our dog used to kill squirrels all the time.

 

It was a chicken the dog killed. Not an infant.

[coffeeaddict]

He is trying to bait you and get you engaged again in the drama....If he says something that blames you, you want to correct him...normal, with normal people, but he's NOT normal. He will not validate you. He will blame you, turn things around, make you doubt yourself.

 

Yeah, that's my interpretation too. The drama is like an attempt on his part to bring you back to the table. By even getting you engaged in trying to prove your side to him, it puts him back in a position of authority. If he can convince you that it's simply a question of his side Vs your side and the truth is somewhere in the middle, then you doubt yourself and he wins. Then after bringing you down he can build you back up again, which gives him even more power.

 

For normal people having a fight there are two valid sides, but in this case it's a guy who seeks to play your emotions like a pianist, control and abuse you, abuse the pets, take your money, take your confidence, and then on the back end post pictures with girls and say you never loved him. There's simply no reasoning with such a person, he doesn't have a valid side, there's your side and then there's the boot on your throat, and that's his side.

 

It's essentially a lawyers tactic, if you're a lawyer and you know you have a lousy case (like your ex does), you change the subject. You talk about something else, you create accusations. Even if all your accusations are struck down point by point by the opposing team, you've still won, because you've changed the subject.

 

Instead of the original subject of the aforementioned behavior, the new subject is, "You didn't love me," "You didn't try hard enough," this that and the other, and because you're a normal Human with normal emotions, you feel compelled to defend yourself on his terms. I think blueskyday's advice is really good:

 

Don't talk to him anymore. If he says something rude like "You gave up," and you can't help but hear it, then say "Yes, I did give up." He can't argue with that.

 

The experts say to make him believe you DO blame it all on yourself, don't argue with him. Say things like "I'm so confused. I need time." Don't try to talk with him about what went wrong in the relationship. It's like trying to pin jello to the wall....impossible.

Edited May 1, 2011 by coffeeaddict

[Kaito]

Thank you Art. This is something I will definitely consider.

 

And I know its natural for my dog to want to attack small prey, I just wish he'd eat it and not just kill mercilessly. I honestly think its just a game for him... chase it and make it stop moving. Then when that one's done, on to the next.

 

I am actually a proponent for dogs eating natural food such as chickens, rabbits, squirrels, what have you. But like I said... he doesn't even recognize it until food until its cut up for him lol.

 

I have another update. So... my ex seems... civil at this time. He is coming over tomorrow ( I know I know... bad idea). He claims it is to help me put up the dog fence in the backyard (its about 1/3 done). He also says I do not actually need to be out there helping, but he feels its responsibility to get it done. I think he feels partially responsible for the chicks dying cause he was supposed to have the fence up last weekend, before this all happened.

 

Anyway, I said okay so he could do that and get some items of his, and so we could exchange the cars and all that. I'm feeling okay and not at all like I want to be back with him. I stayed home from work today because yesterday was AWFUL and I was so depressed, as you all know... I stayed up late talking to my mom and felt better, but was still EXHAUSTED mentally/emotionally by the time I woke up. My supervisor let me stay home to get some much needed rest and to clear my head even more.

 

I was afraid today, being alone to my own devices, I'd become a mess again. But, I never wanted to contact him at all and he only contacted me about business. I feel actually very wonderful, except for the whole incident with the chickens. But, I got the experience I needed of processing one (even if I didn't kill it), so its a plus in that regard. I also spent all day between the computer (such as this post and talking to friends about plans to go home this weekend) and cleaning the house. The room I'm in now with the computer is SO much neater, and I divided some of his stuff apart from everything else. There's more of it in here, somewhere... but its a good start. I cleaned it up enough that I don't feel cluttered and claustrophobic.

 

I also cleaned my dishes and the kitchen table. Again, not perfect, not finished, but so much better it makes me feel good.

 

I need to clean my laundry room desperately and burn all these cardboard boxes I have back there... I've been saving them for a big bonfire party but its just out of control now, I am sick of them taking up space. I have some exercise equipment in there and I want to set it up and start working out.

 

Its SUCH a good feeling to be able to do things MY way now. I was looking around the house at how many places I let my ex take control. Things I wanted a certain way and he just busted in and took over. Our computer room was supposed to be MY study, with my books, a quiet place I could retreat too. He was also going to have a computer room adjacent mine. Well, then I gave him the great idea to make our master bedroom downstairs an entertainment room (since our living room is an odd shape and we were having trouble figuring out how to place the couch and TV without it being awkward). So, the master bedroom became HIS entertainment room, and had a desk for a while for his computer. And the computer room he was going to have upstairs became our bedroom. But what did he do? He moved his computer into MY study and decided what he was going to do with it. It got messier and messier each day. I asked him to please let me rearrange the study how I wanted it, and he said no, and complained that we had gotten this house for me and "can't I just have one room??" I exclaimed that the entire entertainment room, the BIGGEST room in the house, was his room! "But you have ALL The other rooms." Me: They're tiny, one is a guest bedroom, and the other is for the cat's stuff.... oh, and the only one left is OUR bedroom. This one room was supposed to be just for me, like the entertainment room was just for you!

Him: But you use it too. Its not just my entertainment room.

 

Ugh. It was always so infuriating. NOW I can set up my study just how I want! With the book shelves against the wall, my desk with my computer, MY chair back (he kept stealing it, even though he had bought it for me....he offered it to me and gave it back to me once, but even after that would annoy me by squeeking the chair he got in return, or complaining about it.), finally get it cleaned up.

 

And, when we first moved in, there's this secluded little cubby like space in our kitchen. I wanted the dehydrator to go there, since its big and square and would probably have fit that space nicely. Its not pretty, but that keeps it out of the way but also accessible for the few times I actually use it. Well, HE decided that our beta's fish tank HAD to go there. I had no say in the matter. He wanted it there because it was pretty. I agree, it is pretty (even though the tank is a bit messy). Its a very pretty space. But I don't want pretty space in my kitchen, I want usable space to make cooking easier and more convenient... and its not like he ever did much in the kitchen, so why did he get to say what I put where? Well... now I can move the fish tank if I please and not hear grief!!

 

I was always letting him have his way. It was too frustrating to try and argue with him, because you could never win. AND if you made a good point and it looked like he couldn't deny you were right without appearing to be lying or to be a total idiot, he'd laugh it off and essentially call the argument off because clearly it wasn't important enough to be taken seriously. Then, when I stayed mad and wanted to finish our discussion, he's accuse me of things like dragging it on or fighting without a reason, making the relationship harder, etc. Ugh.

 

I still can't decide if he got this house for me or him. I'm thinking he got it knowing I'd love it and I guess hoping it would keep me with him. But... he used to flip flop. When things were good, he loved the house. When things were bad, he hated it, saying how he would have preferred less acreage and a garage, that he got this for me and I should be grateful and not complain about him. He would hold the house over my head when he could. But, like I said, if he was happy he loved it. Unbelievable.

 

Okay thats enough reminiscing. Its amazing how many more controlling things he did that just come out of the woodwork when my head is clear...

 

In other news, and I know this is a big no-no... but here goes anyway...

 

I joined a dating site *for casual conversation only*. I know I cannot date now, not even close. I just wanted to talk to some guys to 1) take my mind off my ex and 2)a little confidence booster, and 3) enjoy guys being nice to me because, lets face it, even if they're total *******s they sweet talk the hell out of you online! lol At first it was actually hurting more than helping, but I have found a couple guys I'm talking to who I enjoy talking to. One of them in particular... its crazy. Him and I have so much in common. I'm on guard of course, just in case... but he seems easy to talk to and like he'd be a lot of fun to be around. I'll see how it unfolds, I might have a new friend on my hands! And one that lives near me, which is important. I find that talking to him helps me keep a level head and makes it so much easier to deal with my ex. If my ex pulls any of his sh*t tomorrow I'll make sure to keep this other guy in mind, to remind me that there IS something better out there. Someone BETTER suited to me. This guy may not be it, but even so, he's so much more suited to me at first glance than my ex EVER was! My ex was good at being sweet and we had a few things here and there in common at first. But, as we all know, that sweetness is a facade the abuser uses to bait his prey. I'm hoping this guy is no abuser. Time will tell. Again, I am NOT considering dating him or anyone, I know that is unwise. I'm just looking to get a really good friend. In another several months, when I'm more stable, then maybe I can think about dating someone.

 

I am going home this weekend and I will hopefully be seeing some friends. I will definitely be seeing my mom and my brother, and I'd like to get a chance to see my father and his side of my family too. I cannot wait to see them.. I love my family. My mom is a sweetheart, she made dinner reservations at my favorite restaurant I'm gonna be a pig on saturday!!!! And probably a bit of a lush too lol.

 

Just read your post Coffee.

"It's essentially a lawyers tactic, if you're a lawyer and you know you have a lousy case (like your ex does), you change the subject. You talk about something else, you create accusations. Even if all your accusations are struck down point by point by the opposing team, you've still won, because you've changed the subject. "

 

I took logic in college... red herring fallacy, and the other ones that I forgot what they're called... wow. All logical argument fallacies I used to know so well and he's turning them around on me.

 

I do also like bluesky's advice, and I will use it the next time he tries to argue with me.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Kaito

[Kaito]

He texted me saying "not even a week and already I've been used." The sadistic side in me wanted to know how, so I asked if he wanted to talk about it. He said no, mentioned how he just wants to be loved, how he can only stand being alone for so long. I told him exactly what I need as well: that he needs to be happy being single before he can ever love anybody else properly. I noted that he said "I need to be loved." Last time we broke up he said, "I need somebody to love, I have all this love to give now and nobody to give it to." That time he went back for a romp with his ex, before he realized that I guess she was using him. Whatever. That's what he gets for fooling around with hussies. The only girls he ever meets are friends of his younger friend, so they're all like 18 years old. He's 28. So lame.

[Kaito]

Well I found out his "being used" story. Apparently a girl was chatting him up and was seeming like she wanted to date him, but she was only doing it to get back at another guy. Again, this is the same guy who only hangs out with young girls so she was probably 18 or so. He said they had a similar upbringing so he was connecting with her.

 

Anyway, he said that "this has to be the last conversation about our relationship" .. thank goodness! He said if I had any questions or needed closure that I could bring it up again, but that he needed to move on now. Whew! I was done days ago, no problem to me!

 

He comes over in a few hours. I'll let you all know tonight how it went. I'm nervous to see him, honestly. Not about my safety... just.. nervous. Its the first time I'll see him since we've been broken up. I just have to keep thinking about how I cannot change him, and that the abusiveness IS a part of him that I would have always dealt with if I stayed with him. I know this because even now he does not admit that its a problem. He had NO idea what the real problem was. He kept blaming other things, not owning his abusive nature. At first, yes, I was trying to point out things to him and correct him. But you all told me not to, that he wouldn't listen anyway. Well, I know you're right, so I stopped. I started just agreeing with him to get him to shut up.

 

He blamed me for him stopping counselling. He said he had asked me to go but I didn't want to. I had to laugh at that, and I corrected him this last time (after this I was so done cause he definitely was not even hearing me).. I told him that it was me who suggested counseling, and he would not budge until I threatened to leave. Even then he tried to call my bluff, but I wasn't bluffing. Once he realized that he agreed and went to a few sessions. I went to a few alone, and a few with him. But this girl did nothing for me, as awesome a counselor as she was... she couldn't, because I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I was trying to fix you, and I was still finding fault with me. One day I'd talk to her, trying to work it out with him. The next I was trying to figure out how to get out. I had no clue which direction to take then... so she couldn't have helped me. I didn't even realize this until now.

 

Then, his retort to that was, "I asked you like two months ago, you said no."

Okay... huh?! Where was I? At this point I gave up. He knows damn well I can't remember a specific conversation two months ago, and there's no way he can either. Two months ago was the beginning of March. I was hatching chickens and they were just about ready to come out. I think I also ordered my second batch of chicks. It was just before I cut my bangs... so, this must have been the time we were building the brooders. I remember things were going pretty well then. I don't remember any big fights from that time frame. Soon after that he did lose his job, and there was no way he was gonna mention counseling that we couldn't afford. In fact, I think the only thing he was talking about before he lost his job was how nervous he was about work. And how he wanted to go to college for a new job. So.. no clue about that. I swear he pulls stuff out of his ass.

 

Ugh, gotta get ready. I need to go shopping and do so much damn stuff today.

[betterdeal]

So now he's out of this abusive relationship and not being held back by you any longer, he can go to college and counselling and do all the things you stopped him from doing. He must be relieved by this.

 

He may even choose to spend some of his time reading titles such as

 

The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing,

How to be Assertive in Any Situation, or

Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self

 

And learn how to avoid being used by 18 year old girls for meaningless, no-strings sex and things like that.

[Kaito]

My update before I respond.

 

Turns out the using thing was more than just a casual conversation and included a kiss. But whatever. She was 22. And, a friend told her that "Oh, he just broke up with his girlfriend but he'll probably get back with her", which shows just what some people think of all this. Oy.

 

I spent half the day with him today. It was the first time seeing him, and yes it was hard. Not... TERRIBLE... but not easy either. He was very nice. He took his clothes, we talked about the separation and different terms... and he helped me with my dog fence. He was such a gentleman. He said he doesn't know why now he can be so nice. And I was different too, of course... more carefree and open. He asked me, "How come the girl I fell in love with has to come out NOW?!" Well, I thought the same about him.

 

The thing that hurt about all of it was thinking, "Why did he have to be so mean to me when we were together, but so nice now?" I know thats just how abusiveness goes... but it totally sucks.

 

Anyway, I have no intention to go back with him, and he has no intention to go back to me. He explained to me that he knows he needs to fix himself before he can move on and get in any sort of good relationship. I guess he matured a little bit, but just had a weekend of bad decisions (thats what he said... that he made poor decisions cause he was feeling sad). Unfortunately, the changes he mentions making are not exactly the ones he needs to make most. He mentioned exercising and losing weight. Sure that'll help his mood but won't help him be nice to people. His sister told me he was always mean to his girlfriends, and I know he was not always heavy and in fact used to be quite fit.

 

He also said some stuff I know to be controlling/condescending, but he did not mean it that way (he really does NOT realize his thinking is skewed). He said he'd be here to help me around the house until I date someone else who can help me. Essentially, saying I can't do it myself. Well, he's partially right. I don't know how to do a lot by myself and some of it I'm not strong enough for (chopping wood) just yet. But, I am fully capable of learning and/or hiring someone! Still, I do not mind the help and I also do not mind being friendly with him.

 

He said something else that was fascinating to me as far as his abusive tendencies and thinking goes, but I cannot remember it now. But yeah, its clear to me that he is still the same man, still capable of the same rage. He just doesn't have to show it toward me because I'm beyond his control now. Now its either the sweet tactics to "win me back", or its nothing at all since he just doesn't want me back. Either or, I'm not dealing with his anger so that's good.

 

"So now he's out of this abusive relationship and not being held back by you any longer, he can go to college and counselling and do all the things you stopped him from doing. He must be relieved by this.

 

He may even choose to spend some of his time reading titles such as

 

The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing,

How to be Assertive in Any Situation, or

Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self

 

And learn how to avoid being used by 18 year old girls for meaningless, no-strings sex and things like that."

 

Lol betterdeal, exactly my point! He doesn't even know that he should be going to counseling, should be reading those books, etc. Isn't it amazing?! How can someone be so blind to themselves?! But hey, I can't talk. I was blind to the brain washing that was going on. And I know either 1) he's still trying, or 2) he's still doing it without meaning to, because thats a part of him... but yeah, the way he talks even now shows he has an abuser's mindset. He kept saying he's a nice guy, he just gets angry. ... He.. mentioned something that reminded me of that Border Personality Disorder. Something about being two weeks into our relationship and feeling stress for some reason, and then things going downhill.. something about him falling back into old habits... I wish I could remember. It was something he said he did in relationships, not just mind. But, of course, a day or so ago he was saying I'm the only girl he's done this with. Lol. He's so confused or so caught up in his own lie he forgot where the truth is!

 

But yeah, I'll never be able to show him or convince him that he has the problem of abusiveness. To him its about anger, about his past, about facing his demons. He is beyond help because he cannot admit the proper problem. And he insists he's not a bad guy, that he did a lot of nice things for me. Its true, he did occassionally give me gifts. He occassionally got things for me. He sometimes cleaned, cooked... once in a blue moon exercised. And yes, he did a few times help me with a project. Actually, he was best about that. I'm not sure why projects were something he kept on fairly decently. I think they made him feel good about himself, getting things done like that. As for the abuser mentality, maybe its kind of like a way to show, "Hey, you need me, you couldn't have fixed this!"

 

And, I admit, it made me question leaving him a few times. "What will I do without him, I can't fix the washer! I can't fix the barn door, or put up fence!" Well... I can, damnit, I just need to learn first! And I am learning.

 

Edit to add: One more thing. I spoke to the family friend I mentioned previously... the older woman. She is married to a man who was once abusive to her and the children. He mellowed in age. Well, of course, she told me, "Oh men are just like that! They're hard to deal with! If you guys get back together, good. If not, well that's okay too."

 

That really bothered me. But, you know, I understand why she said it. To her, the abuse isn't an issue because she probably didn't think she was abused. They always mention he had "an alcohol problem". It was never an "Abuse problem". Sure he hit her, the kids, but whatever. He doesn't drink anymore and he doesn't hit anyone anymore, so its okay now. I guess her to say, "Good girl! You deserve to be treated better!" Would be like her admitting her marriage was unnecessary or bad. Still... it hurt hearing that, kind of like she said, "You should have tried harder."

 

His mother also messaged me. She totally understands and was very sweet and loving. It totally reinforces my decision when 99% of people agree with me about what had to be done, and the one person who expressed to me that its okay we get back together was the one who had been abused and stayed with him! Her life may be okay now, but its not how I want to live. I don't want to wait to get there. I don't want to change so much I forget who I was and become his "pet" more or less. Sure, one of her kids turned out okay. The other, while he's kind of like a younger brother even though he's a month or so older than me, is immature, drinks too much, does drugs, and is a womanizer and can be awful violent and rude. Turning into his dad. The other one is full of himself but as far as I know is a gentleman. He's in a marriage that I'm not sure if its good or not, but it works for them. His wife's a sweet girl and he seems to cater to her... so I guess no abuse happens there. And he certainly doesn't abuse any substances anymore, but I hear he used to as well.

 

I do not want my kids growing up like that, in that, around that. No!

 

Oh, and another thing... I can tell how much I really do not trust him still. He grabbed a pocket knife today to get a stubborn splinter out. We were in the car, it was just after he grabbed some metal poles for the fence and a metal piece wouldn't come out with the pliers he had. So he took out the knife and started working at it. I suddenly imagined him jabbing at me with it. I put my hand on the door handle, leaned back, and he looked at where I had put my hand. I realized I just gave away my thoughts... so I casually picked up my sweater on my hand nearest him in case I needed to lift it to try and catch the blade before it hit me, if he did anything. He didn't... he had no intentions to. But god, was I so nervous in those moments.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Kaito

[blueskyday]

If he says some crap about blaming you for his inability to go for counseling, you can also say "You believe I kept you from getting counseling." It's a general statement of what he "believes," not an admission that he is right. Then, in your head, tell yourself "I know that's not true."

 

I like the generic, "I understand." You can use it in response to anything, and then change the subject.

 

And yes, take the (fake) blame for the relationship not working out, as in, "I'm so confused. I feel so depressed all the time. I have problems, blah blah....blah." Let him think you blame yourself...and you will take all the fun out of him convincing you with that "boot on your neck" approach (love that expression, Coffee).

 

He's such a tool. Just don't, under any circumstances, feel sympathy towards him, or any enjoyment in being with him, or he will have you at "hello," so to speak....Keep thinking, "He's full of sh*t."

 

What really, really helped me when I was in your shoes was to think like this:

 

"My ex is NOT a nice guy who was happens to be an a**hole sometimes.

He is an a**hole who happens to be nice sometimes -- when it serves him."

 

It's a subtle thing, but you will never be caught off guard again if you think that.

Edited May 3, 2011 by blueskyday

[blueskyday]

GLad you don't trust him....The knife incident sounds like it was scary to you! You are listening to your gut now. That's great!

 

Maybe the lesson is you don't spend any time alone with him at all, and certainly not in the small confines of a car or any room with the door closed...I always knew my exits and had them clearly open...

 

On a happier note, it might be fun to start making lists of what you like (ie, ketchup on meatloaf), and what you don't like (getting groceries on Sunday morning, which he did)...and how you feel every day at a few different check in points. It's a great way to get back in touch with yourself...It's amazing how many little things you have given up, isn't it? And now you are going to get them all back!

[johan]

I don't think this guy was physically abusive so much as emotionally and verbally. It doesn't seem necessary to keep an eye on the exits and avoid being in a car with him, at least not in the name of safety. Maybe it's just better to be apart, but the advice I'm seeing doesn't seem right for the kind of guy we're talking about. Or else maybe I missed something.

[coffeeaddict]

Sounds like quite a day, glad to hear that it didn't go too badly and you're doing well.

[coffeeaddict]

I don't think this guy was physically abusive so much as emotionally and verbally. It doesn't seem necessary to keep an eye on the exits and avoid being in a car with him, at least not in the name of safety. Maybe it's just better to be apart, but the advice I'm seeing doesn't seem right for the kind of guy we're talking about. Or else maybe I missed something.

 

I don't think it was a consistent pattern of physical abuse, but she mentioned these incidents:

 

"I was completely at his mercy, without a way to communicate to anyone else (we did not have or phones and we were stuck in deep snow a few miles from anyone else). My only response to the initial attack was to drop and cower in such a way that THANK GOODNESS worked and stopped his attack immediately. Still, he didn't do what most concerned love ones would do. He did not drop down to help me up. He did not comfort me. He stood over me for a while. He then said: If anyone asks, you fell and hit your head on the guard rail."

 

"he beats the dog without remorse when the dog misbehaves."

 

"If the dog steps out of line he gets a severe beating on the head, while I have to beg him to stop and listen to the dog crying."

[Kaito]

"My ex is NOT a nice guy who was happens to be an a**hole sometimes.

He is an a**hole who happens to be nice sometimes -- when it serves him."

 

Bluesky, I love this! Thank you, you totally just brightened my mood!

 

I also love the list idea.. I'm a buy list writer as is. I will totally start a like and do not like list!!

 

Johan, the bulk of it was emotional/verbal... and the control/manipulation/brain washing.

 

No, I do not think I need to worry for my safety, I really don't. But I still don't trust me, and it still made me nervous. Its like... I'm not worried that he would hurt me, I'm worried that he COULD. And, knowing he has exploded in the past (although never when we were separating/separated), I know he could do it again. Heck, the fear of that was a major reason why I left him!

 

When he realizes I'm serious, that this is it, who knows if he'll get physical again. But he does offer to get out of my life when I mention it makes me uncomfortable in certain ways. But I don't want to make the separation any harder on either of us, and I honestly need his cooperation to make it through this. The stress of fighting him on everything would totally break me down.

[betterdeal]

I'm glad to hear you're noticing your own feelings when you were around him, and you are clearly delineating between him and you. In fact, it sounds like he is too. This is perhaps why you are both behaving (and being perceived to be behaving) in ways you both like, with little anger, blame, fear (compared to the past).

 

He's showing good signs of looking for other ways to heal his own wounds and improve his own behaviour. Taking an holistic viewpoint, if he deals with his past, this may affect his future, and if he deals with his anger, this may affect his aggressiveness, if he starts to exercise, this may give him the strength to deal with his past, and that may give him the key to finding out why he finds intimate relationships so threatening and so on.

 

So long as he is encouraged when he does do something helpful for himself and discouraged when he does something harmful, that's how he will learn. This is not to say I suggest you are to be part of his life. Not at all. Just a general observation that if his experience in society is one of do what you like so long as it doesn't harm people then he may well improve.

[Kaito]

Thank you betterdeal. I really hope he follows through with his path to improvement. He has such big dreams of becoming fit again, I would be so happy to see it happen. I don't think he deserves to be miserable, and if he keeps abusing he will stay miserable. He's the type of person who NEEDS to be with someone, like desperately. He says this all the time. I love being with people but I'm feeling better everyday about being alone. I love focusing on me!

 

I'm hoping he'll become strong enough to not need a partner, so that he won't cling to the first person who gives me attention. He's gotten a lot of bad girls that way, apparently.

 

He thanks me a lot for how I've helped him. He says I'm the best thing thats happened to him, he calls me a perfect person. He creates a boundary after this, saying he does not want to get together with me again. But he says he wants to let me know that, that he thinks very highly of me and is thankful. I appreciate it, of course, who wouldn't? I think he's admiring traits in me he wishes he had... levelheadedness and ambition. He seems to only have motivation when the **** already hit the fan! And he's... sometimes level headed... not really... :x

[coffeeaddict]

You mentioned the last time you broke up he sent a lot of sweet messages, and made a lot of promises. Do you think he might be repeating the same pattern? I mean, with the being very nice and a perfect gentlemen, saying he wants to fix himself, saying he doesn't want to get back together but then offering to help out around the house until you find a boyfriend. I'm not saying really bad people can't authentically change themselves and become good people, I'm not that cynical.

 

I could be dead wrong about it (obviously), but I would just be a little bit cautious about it. Because he does have a pattern of rebranding himself whenever you try and end the relationship, and basically becoming what he knows you want him to be.

[Kaito]

You mentioned the last time you broke up he sent a lot of sweet messages, and made a lot of promises. Do you think he might be repeating the same pattern? I mean, with the being very nice and a perfect gentlemen, saying he wants to fix himself, saying he doesn't want to get back together but then offering to help out around the house until you find a boyfriend. I'm not saying really bad people can't authentically change themselves and become good people, I'm not that cynical.

 

I could be dead wrong about it (obviously), but I would just be a little bit cautious about it. Because he does have a pattern of rebranding himself whenever you try and end the relationship, and basically becoming what he knows you want him to be.

 

I thought about that, maybe he's repeating the same pattern. Its different this time because he is not trying to win me over... at least not as directly, if that is his goal. Last time around his messages were always clearly geared at getting me back. Saying how perfect we were, asking for me back, texting me non-stop. I actually don't talk with him a lot at all on a daily basis, just when he randomly sends a message my way. At first he started talking a lot but the past few days is not really as much, I've literally told you guys about every encounter.

 

But I am also being cautious. I know that, potentially, this is a ploy. In fact, it looks an awful lot like one. Unfortunately, wanting to be friends and supportive ALSO looks like a ploy lol, there's no way around it. I tend to believe him in that he is not trying to get back with me, that this is not a scheme of his. I think he may WANT to be back with me, he wishes he could be nice and we could work it out, but he knows that's not possible at this point... too much bad has happened, and he needs to fix himself!

 

I really hope he wouldn't sink so low as to play around like that. I know I know, hitting me and the dog and being mean to his kid is VERY low. BUt I don't think in his eyes it is, because he had "Excuses" for those behaviors.. he was abused, treated bad, bad childhood, etc. Now there's no excuse like that to hide behind.. he has to justify his actions. His justification is in the name of friendship we keep talking.

 

I may be cutting it short sooner than he wants, though. I'm well on my way to figuring out how to separate the bills, the deeds and titles and loans and such. The process is in place, day by day I'll get it done.

 

He's letting me use his stuff until he needs it. I'm trying not to touch his things... in fact I need to start moving it all into a separate bedroom. I want it out of the way, but I told him I'd let him get his place first. He's got something almost lined up, it seems... not settled on yet, but he was talking about rooming with a friend.. not someone he should really hang around if he wants to improve himself, but.. well.. I guess he's got nobody else.

 

Okay, I'm off for a bike ride

[coffeeaddict]

I thought about that, maybe he's repeating the same pattern. Its different this time because he is not trying to win me over... at least not as directly, if that is his goal. Last time around his messages were always clearly geared at getting me back. Saying how perfect we were, asking for me back, texting me non-stop.

 

True, but if he says he's trying to win you over directly then he's less credible in your eyes, because you'll just assume that he's doing what he's doing to get you back.

 

If he can convince you he's a genuinely changing man while not trying to win you back, he gets further because he looks better, since he knows that's the reason you left in the first place.

 

The reason I propose it as a possibility is because of the manipulative track record, but also because I can tell he succeeded at least a little bit in altering your perception of him:

 

He explained to me that he knows he needs to fix himself before he can move on and get in any sort of good relationship. I guess he matured a little bit.

He also said some stuff I know to be controlling/condescending, but he did not mean it that way.

Ultimately you can only judge someone based on their actions and their track record. Regardless of whether he says he's fixing himself, he's still an abuser and you're still his victim. And regardless of whether he says that he's only coming around to be a good samaritan or your friend, the result is an abuser is still hanging around his victim.

 

Given the fact that you mentioned you once broke up with him for 3 weeks and he poured on the sweet-talk, since it's only been 1 week, I think it's unlikely that his intentions toward you have changed.

 

Also remember just a few days ago, when you said he was posting pictures of himself with girls at a time when he knew you would be feeling lonely and wounded, and then subsequently texted you: "All these parties and girls don't equal holding you at night." That's very intentionally manipulative behavior, flattering you at a time when he knew you would be feeling bad. And that was what, 48 hours ago? lol. If those were his intentions 2 days ago...

 

All I can do is make judgements based on a pattern. I'm just presenting the possibility to encourage you keep your guards up a little bit, because I'd hate to see you get snookered again. You're very smart and figuring things out fast, but people are vulnerable when they go through breakups.

 

Take care of yourself, and hope you had fun on the bike ride.

[blueskyday]

I second all that was just said above.

 

Also, just because his past abuse was mostly verbal and emotional doesn't mean that he can't and won't get physical with his abuse.

 

My ex tried to strangle me after years of tormenting me with (only, ha!) verbal/emotional abuse. He didn't get physical until there wasn't any other tool of control and abuse left in his tool box that would work on me...at least that's how the police officer explained it.

 

So, be very careful. I never ever would have thought my ex would cross the line into physical abuse, but he did. It's a straight line of abuse escalation...

[Kaito]

True, but if he says he's trying to win you over directly then he's less credible in your eyes, because you'll just assume that he's doing what he's doing to get you back.

 

That is very true.

 

I did have fun, thank you.

 

I've been talking to a guy who I am steadily noticing has all the traits I loved about my ex when he was a good guy. Its making me realize that there are greater people in this world who don't have to be *******s. I always knew it but I like the proof before my eyes.

 

As for him being around... I can't say I'm 100% comfortable with it, and my guard was definitely up. I will probably discourage a lot of it from now on, but he does have to come by now and again for his things. I'm going to keep up with the separating of our bills and all that. I spoke to the lawyer today so I know how to go about getting his name off the deed and loan to the house, as well as resources for writing my agreement/contract with him about me getting the house. I couldn't get it done for Monday, I hope to have it done and signed by next week, if not Friday.

 

Its tough. Part of me wants him long gone, part of me wants him around because he's useful (yes, I know thats probably using him)... to help me get that stuff done. Part of me says its okay I stay friends and yet at the same time I'm nervous cause I think he may be trying to get back with me still... and I really don't want that.

[betterdeal]

When I'm faced with a choice between conspiracy and cock-up, I tend to go for the easiest, simplest explanation i.e. cock-up. Your ex is more likely to be a confused mess whose learnt myriad self-defeating, maladaptive coping mechanisms than a Professor Moriarty.

 

No matter. This is largely academic. Your new-found self-respect and self-awareness are more than capable of dealing with any transgressions into your space. Any relationship you enter into with anyone from now on will be with those skills there to protect your inner self and so you will enjoy any such relationship when it is enjoyable, and deal with it efficiently and in a self-supporting way if it wavers.

 

You don't sound like you're going to confuse infatuation, lust, companionship or affection with a delusional version of love whereby all bad things are excused by said so-called love. Even putting words like "true" or "real" before the word love doesn't make it exist. I'm sure Hitler "truly loved" the Aryan race.

 

It's the love we have for ourself, our life, our world that is the foundation of all our relationships. The better we honour that love, the better the relationships we choose to be in. This applies to all of us, including you and including him.

 

And you have found that love without his help, and he will find his without yours. I cannot give you your truths, nor can you give him his. He needs to find them himself. He may think you're a key to that and confuses that with needing you in his life, but it might just be the fact that you reject him and his behaviour permanently that will be what he learns most from. In that sense, it is your gift to him.

[coffeeaddict]

I've been talking to a guy who I am steadily noticing has all the traits I loved about my ex when he was a good guy. Its making me realize that there are greater people in this world who don't have to be *******s. I always knew it but I like the proof before my eyes.

 

Sounds awesome, should help along the process of regaining your self confidence as well as learning to trust again.

[coffeeaddict]

Also, just because his past abuse was mostly verbal and emotional doesn't mean that he can't and won't get physical with his abuse.

Yep. It's just logical that the physical component comes in combination with the psychological component, because the ability to physically abuse comes in combination with the prerequisite of the other person accepting it, so psychological control often leads into physical abuse which is then used to reinforce the psychological aspect and so on, like you describe with your ex.

 

I don't necessarily think every instance where one person physically lashes out at someone or throws something across the room means the person is an abuser, because people do lose their cool, people have fights, people lose their tempers, people are Human.

 

What really concerns me about Kaito's story is that after he struck her, he told her to tell other people that she hit yourself. That second part concerns me as much if not more than the first part, because it's very calculating, and it demonstrates intent, intent is important. To have a temper is one thing, lots of people have tempers. But saying, "I'm going to inflict this on you, and you're going to tell these people that you inflicted it on yourself," that's something quite different from losing a temper. It's using psychological control in a calculated manner to cover up physical abuse, the fact that it happened only once is meaningless, because once demonstrates intent. Intent meaning intentional and calculated, as opposed to someone who does things but doesn't intend to do them. And it definitely fits with changing his persona the last time you distance yourself as well as this time, increasing the flattering, the sweetness, it fits the profile and the pattern.

 

But like I said, all we can do is make judgements/logical assumptions based on a pattern, because we're all anonymous people. People can change of course, but people with your ex's problems they don't change (or even start to change) in 48 hours, lol. My dad changed but it took him 30 years, and the change was more of a gradual mellowing of his controlling and meanness accompanied by a physical decline which made him more dependent on others.

 

Best wishes.