He's abusive, I'm scared.

[Trimmer]

Kaito - somehow I missed this thread, and this is the first time I've seen it. I've read over the past few months of your progress, and wow - you've come a long way. In sitting here reading it, I was cringing all the way through - especially when you'd get into those text discussions with him - saying to myself "no, no, don't give in! ! !" and knowing I still had a month and a half still to read...

 

I think you've gotten great advice and support here. One thing that concerns me is that there's a pattern of your ex doing anything he can to keep a connection - even if it's a negative one - with you, and I think you need to get assertive about tying up all those loose ends and cutting ALL the remaining strings.

 

One thing that jumped out at me:

 

I don't get this guy. Everytime I give him the tiniest bit of slack he walks all over me again.

Ah - to me, this totally makes sense. I think the prospect of him completely and finally accepting that you are gone isn't something he is willing to embrace, much less accept, so I think he will take any opportunity to keep a connection with you alive - even if it's a pathological one, and he certainly has his pathologies, right?

 

If you accept this premise, then it's not hard to see why he continually wants to put off getting the rest of his "stuff", for example; as long as his stuff is there, it remains a connection between the two of you. He really has no reason to want that scenario to be resolved, as you do - quite the contrary. Having his "stuff" there at your house is like he peed and marked out his place inside your territory. A symbolic beachhead...

 

So when you look at it from these perspectives, all these weird behaviors make sense.

As for ex...

1)He says he will come for his things and never does.

2) He has already broken his end of the contract because he has failed to close a bank account before the time limit, still waiting on him to do it.

3) He is approaching another deadline for which I am positive he has made no progress. He is supposed to change the address on the bills he gets, and since he hasn't even come to pick up his mail I doubt he has had a chance to do that.

To you, from a rational point of view, it seems like, wouldn't anyone want to get these aggravations taken care of once and for all? But to him, that would be finally calling it a day and declaring the end, and whether it's conscious or unconscious, he just has no motivation to do that.

 

So I think you're going to have to build the motivation and take the initiative to make these things happen yourself. For example, with his stuff:

 

Its annoying to make the trip to where he is, but I asked the ppl he was staying with if I could drop his things off and they said it was just fine. So that may be happening soon.

I strongly encourage you to do this. None of this BS about it being illegal to move his stuff. You are delivering his stuff to him. Make it happen - intead of waiting in frustration for this "string" to be cut, take control and do it yourself, then check that sucker off your list!

 

Closing the bank account: Now, the bank may have said you both "need" to come in to close it, but I have some thoughts about that. They may have been talking about the way to close an account that makes their lives easiest, but I wonder: don't you suppose there might be a way for a person to take themselves off an account like that, in the event that the other person is not cooperating? I think I read you say that your department had a legal adviser? Can you check in with them and say that you've got a joint account that you want to be off of, and see what kind of a letter you can write the bank to push things along? I know you can't usually kick someone ELSE off a joint account that they have a right to, but maybe there's a way you can relinquish your right to it, and assuming there is no current debt against it (i.e. it's not a credit card account, and if it's a checking account, it's not overdrawn...) maybe you can force that hand somehow, instead of having to passively wait while he is in control of the progress.

 

Incidentally, I doubt you both have to appear simultaneously. If nothing else, go in yourself, ask them to start the paperwork to take you off the account, and do your signatures. Then let him know it is there waiting for him. When we divorced, they were very clear that we didn't need to come in at the same time - there's no reason for it. (But still check with a lawyer to see if there's any way you can force it to happen on your own...)

 

Pretty soon I'll be changing where his bills go FOR him. I'll just have to open his mail and fill out the "change of address" forms on the mail-in stubs for him, since I doubt he's done it yet.

It doesn't seem like you need to open them, and as a matter of fact, that might not be a good idea - maybe even from a legal perspective. Even aside from the legal issue, you are putting yourself in a position of taking responsibility for solving his problem, and you don't need to do that. Instead, mark the outsides of the envelopes something like "No longer at this address - New address: blah blah blah" and just give them back to the post office, just like a new homeowner would do in this case. Just keep doing that; I think most creditors send their bills "address correction requested" so this should get the proper information back to them. They want to find the people who owe them money, they'll get the message eventually.

 

Now, with all of these things, you can give him fair warning if you want: this is what I'm going to do with the bank account in 3 (or whatever) days, if you haven't signed off on the change by then... or ...this is what I'll be doing with any bills that arrive here after the deadline you agreed to. And indeed, that would probably be the civil thing to do. But by taking these actions, you would be setting clear boundaries, communicating them fairly and clearly, and then enforcing them, instead of letting him "walk all over you" as you put it, while you sit in frustration, waiting for him to take actions that he doesn't care about.

 

Again, whether consciously or subconsciously, he is still keeping those loose ends - those strings - attached to you, and isn't motivated to take care of and finalize things, so don't be surprised when deadlines pass and things don't get done. But I think if you go looking, you may find that you can take control - and in the process, keep him from having this last bit of control over your life, even if it is just to create aggravation and frustration. Take control and end it.

 

Finally, one of the other things I noticed over the several months of your posts was that periodic pattern I mentioned up top, of you guys texting/talking about your relationship that is now OVER, that I kept cringing at. As one of the other insightful posters pointed out, every one of those conversations is just full of traps waiting to spring on you. Now, I'll note that you seemed to do a good job of not "buying in" and getting trapped, but I'm wondering if these kinds of conversations are still going on? If so, I would encourage you to stop, period.

 

The idea of "still being friends" is one that may sound "nice", to try to end things on a gentle note and so on, but this was a pathological relationship, and while you may think you are helping him to talk things through and discuss and so on, in fact, those conversations are only doing that same thing I talked about earlier: providing him a continued connection with you, so he can avoid completely accepting that the relationship is now fully OVER. So while you may feel like you are being nice and trying to be civil in these discussions, etc, you are probably not helping either of you.

 

I know I'm going on at length here, but please consider reading this post of mine... I have this technique I used when my marriage was breaking up and I needed to still talk to my ex-wife about property, kids, etc, but I needed to separate from the husband/wife part of our dynamic. (and this post is already long enough, but hey, I'm catching up to 3 months of activity here, right?) The post I referenced deals with divorce and kids, etc. but the basic idea of separating your ex into his different "characters" could still be useful to you.

 

Anyway, I strongly encourage you to separate out your dealings with your ex and deal with him only as needed on a business/logistical level, but decline (politely, as needed) to engage with him and get drawn into partner/boyfriend/girlfriend issues. And honestly, I don't expect that trying to be a "friend" character is likely to be a benefit to either of you, because I think he will just continue to use that connection with you to serve other emotional purposes on his end. I suspect that is exactly why it works for him to keep the bank account open, keep his stuff at your house, etc. because then you HAVE to deal with him on the business/logistical level, and then he twists it back onto the girlfriend/boyfriend dynamic, and it feeds his need for connection with you. This dynamic is no good for either of you.

 

I think it will help you to cut all strings, tie up all loose ends, cut off your dealings with him in the boyfriend/friend interactions, and be very sure of your boundaries around interacting with him only on business/logistical issues.

 

Don't get drawn into those boyfriend/girlfriend discussions. I'll say it again: even if you're strong enough to come through them relatively unscathed, they still fuel his pathologies, and that is no good for anyone.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Trimmer

[Kaito]

Thank you for the lengthy response Trimmer I appreciate the feedback.

 

 

If you accept this premise, then it's not hard to see why he continually wants to put off getting the rest of his "stuff", for example; as long as his stuff is there, it remains a connection between the two of you. He really has no reason to want that scenario to be resolved, as you do - quite the contrary. Having his "stuff" there at your house is like he peed and marked out his place inside your territory. A symbolic beachhead...

 

 

This does really make sense and I was thinking this over before. I told my mother, "He may be getting what he wants by keeping his things here until the name is off the loan, since he's dragging his feet... but at least financially we will be separated and then I can get rid of his stuff and not be afraid of him doing anything against me!"

 

But, I agree I do need to drop his things off. Its been hard with gas money/work, etc... but this stuff needs to go and besides his excuses of not having money to get here either I do think that he is delaying on purpose. He says he has no money but I know he's not paying rent, he has been working a bit so he has some money, and I'm pretty sure he's been spending a ton on booze so he can just quit that and take care of his responsibilities if he wanted (yeah right).

 

 

 

Closing the bank account: Now, the bank may have said you both "need" to come in to close it, but I have some thoughts about that. They may have been talking about the way to close an account that makes their lives easiest, but I wonder: don't you suppose there might be a way for a person to take themselves off an account like that, in the event that the other person is not cooperating? I think I read you say that your department had a legal adviser? Can you check in with them and say that you've got a joint account that you want to be off of, and see what kind of a letter you can write the bank to push things along? I know you can't usually kick someone ELSE off a joint account that they have a right to, but maybe there's a way you can relinquish your right to it, and assuming there is no current debt against it (i.e. it's not a credit card account, and if it's a checking account, it's not overdrawn...) maybe you can force that hand somehow, instead of having to passively wait while he is in control of the progress.

 

Incidentally, I doubt you both have to appear simultaneously. If nothing else, go in yourself, ask them to start the paperwork to take you off the account, and do your signatures. Then let him know it is there waiting for him. When we divorced, they were very clear that we didn't need to come in at the same time - there's no reason for it. (But still check with a lawyer to see if there's any way you can force it to happen on your own...)

 

 

I called the bank a while ago and asked to close it (when we broke up last time)... asked if I could do so alone. They told me no. Recently, he told me he called and that only one of us was needed. I told him he could keep the money in that account since that was the one his paychecks had been deposited into, so that he should be the one to close it. I have considered going to close it myself and then depositing the money into his other account, which I have all the info for still... somewhere. But then he complains that he still has checks coming out of it for bills he is paying. Granted, I probably don't have to worry about that now since he said 1) he is getting checks so he can switch accounts and 2) I have all his bills for July so its not like he can pay them right now anyway. So, I suppose I can go and cancel that. I'll give him a heads up first so he doesn't bitch but I'm thinking maybe Tuesday I'll take a trip... bring him some of his stuff, close that account, deposit that money to his own account, and ... not sure what else.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem like you need to open them, and as a matter of fact, that might not be a good idea - maybe even from a legal perspective. Even aside from the legal issue, you are putting yourself in a position of taking responsibility for solving his problem, and you don't need to do that. Instead, mark the outsides of the envelopes something like "No longer at this address - New address: blah blah blah" and just give them back to the post office, just like a new homeowner would do in this case. Just keep doing that; I think most creditors send their bills "address correction requested" so this should get the proper information back to them. They want to find the people who owe them money, they'll get the message eventually. for him to take actions that he doesn't care about.

 

 

I didn't even know I could write on the outside like that and send it back to the post office, I didn't think that would work. Well, I may bring his next batch of letters to him and advise him to take care of that, since we're still within the time limit of the contract. But the next bills I will do that, after I give him warning. As long as he gets a warning from me I don't see how he can complain after the fact. He still will, but he won't have a leg to stand on and typically he gives up when he knows that... or else has such a hollow argument that it never gets anywhere and is usually just him telling me I'm a bad person or whatever.

 

 

Now, with all of these things, you can give him fair warning if you want: this is what I'm going to do with the bank account in 3 (or whatever) days, if you haven't signed off on the change by then... or ...this is what I'll be doing with any bills that arrive here after the deadline you agreed to. And indeed, that would probably be the civil thing to do. But by taking these actions, you would be setting clear boundaries, communicating them fairly and clearly, and then enforcing them, instead of letting him "walk all over you" as you put it, while you sit in frustration, waiting for him to take actions that he doesn't care about.

 

Again, whether consciously or subconsciously, he is still keeping those loose ends - those strings - attached to you, and isn't motivated to take care of and finalize things, so don't be surprised when deadlines pass and things don't get done. But I think if you go looking, you may find that you can take control - and in the process, keep him from having this last bit of control over your life, even if it is just to create aggravation and frustration. Take control and end it.

 

 

I agree.... I'm going to start putting my foot down more. If money gets tight because of gas trips, well.. my parents have offered to give me money several times, I suppose I can take them up on it. But anyway, I have to go near to his place for some things anyway soon. I'll use that opportunity to bring some items and, if I see him, let him know what I'll do about the letters. I'll also take care of the bank account then if its not done.

 

 

 

Finally, one of the other things I noticed over the several months of your posts was that periodic pattern I mentioned up top, of you guys texting/talking about your relationship that is now OVER, that I kept cringing at. As one of the other insightful posters pointed out, every one of those conversations is just full of traps waiting to spring on you. Now, I'll note that you seemed to do a good job of not "buying in" and getting trapped, but I'm wondering if these kinds of conversations are still going on? If so, I would encourage you to stop, period.

 

The idea of "still being friends" is one that may sound "nice", to try to end things on a gentle note and so on, but this was a pathological relationship, and while you may think you are helping him to talk things through and discuss and so on, in fact, those conversations are only doing that same thing I talked about earlier: providing him a continued connection with you, so he can avoid completely accepting that the relationship is now fully OVER. So while you may feel like you are being nice and trying to be civil in these discussions, etc, you are probably not helping either of you.

 

 

 

Those conversations are no longer happening. In fact, after his last ditch effort and asking me to "date part time" he hasn't spoken with me much at all. In fact, all contact has been me seeking him out for matters in relation to us splitting and nothing else. And I realize what you mean about those friendly discussions just being another way for him to stay attached... and no, I know none of those conversations has ever helped him or me because he hasn't changed one bit. I don't trust a thing he says anymore and I most certainly do not want to be his friend. Even his own friends have come to me to say they wish they had known us both the same amount of time so that they could have, in good faith, chosen me over him... lol. I guess he's even getting on their nerves. They know how he is, but he's just about family to them so they can't just ditch him. But yeah... I'm totally cool with cutting all ties, I wish I could have it all done already. I guess his name on the house has me nervous to do too much. But I've given him ample time to take care of everything and not only has he spent his time dragging his feet, he has also spent it trying to weasel his way back to me... expecting that he'd get another chance. Unbelievable. He has said he won't try anymore but I don't believe that either. If he was truly moved on he'd have found a way to get his stuff. He'd have asked his friends for help to move it in one trip, they have a huge trailer I know they'd gladly let him borrow.

 

 

 

I know I'm going on at length here, but please consider reading this post of mine... I have this technique I used when my marriage was breaking up and I needed to still talk to my ex-wife about property, kids, etc, but I needed to separate from the husband/wife part of our dynamic. (and this post is already long enough, but hey, I'm catching up to 3 months of activity here, right?) The post I referenced deals with divorce and kids, etc. but the basic idea of separating your ex into his different "characters" could still be useful to you.

 

Anyway, I strongly encourage you to separate out your dealings with your ex and deal with him only as needed on a business/logistical level, but decline (politely, as needed) to engage with him and get drawn into partner/boyfriend/girlfriend issues. And honestly, I don't expect that trying to be a "friend" character is likely to be a benefit to either of you, because I think he will just continue to use that connection with you to serve other emotional purposes on his end. I suspect that is exactly why it works for him to keep the bank account open, keep his stuff at your house, etc. because then you HAVE to deal with him on the business/logistical level, and then he twists it back onto the girlfriend/boyfriend dynamic, and it feeds his need for connection with you. This dynamic is no good for either of you.

 

I think it will help you to cut all strings, tie up all loose ends, cut off your dealings with him in the boyfriend/friend interactions, and be very sure of your boundaries around interacting with him only on business/logistical issues.

 

Don't get drawn into those boyfriend/girlfriend discussions. I'll say it again: even if you're strong enough to come through them relatively unscathed, they still fuel his pathologies, and that is no good for anyone.

 

I will read that thread when I get a chance, thank you. And I'll contact him today to let him know that I plan to close the account this week if he doesn't do it himself. I don't need to tell him about bringing his stuff.

[coffeeaddict]

Wow, sounds like things are really on the upswing, I'm happy for you. Regardless of whether Leo's calling you girlfriend or not, if you've met his parents and he's helping you out around the house, then it sounds like he may indeed have been struck by cupid's arrow.

 

It's gratifying to watch someone who was in such bad straits just a few months ago reach a much better place and become so confident and self assured.

 

"Part time dating," that's a good one. Yeah, I think as long as he's in your life in any capacity, his intentions toward you will remain the same. I'm a big fan of what Trimmer says about cutting the last cords with the ex. But it sounds like you're well on the way to accomplishing that goal.

[betterdeal]

Maybe you can get part-time pregnant too?

[scarlett27]

its fine if u want to let some low life tread all over u and beat u thats ur choice BUT TO LET HIM BEAT AN ANIMAL ??? ARE U OUT OF UR MIND , IF I COULD TRACE U I WOULD AND CALL RSPCA RIGHT NOW DISGUSTING

[Kaito]

its fine if u want to let some low life tread all over u and beat u thats ur choice BUT TO LET HIM BEAT AN ANIMAL ??? ARE U OUT OF UR MIND , IF I COULD TRACE U I WOULD AND CALL RSPCA RIGHT NOW DISGUSTING

 

Wow, cool.

 

Anyway...

 

So I found out he has a new girlfriend! I knew he had started going on dates, I assumed he had success when suddenly he stopped messaging me (I really didn't have faith that he had done that on his own lol). She has a little girl, like he's always wanted. I'm happy for him, I just hope he treats her right. He told me he thinks it all happened for a reason, and he thanked me for helping him face his past/problems, etc. He says he's done "****ing around" And will get his stuff soon. In fact, now he is supposedly coming tuesday AND cancelling the bank account. I printed my proof that I needed to show that it was open after the date, so I'm good. I haven't spoken to him on phone but the few texts I saw were with a total different tone and only spoke briefly of her, and otherwise were all about business and he seemed very happy to comply.

 

I hope it stays this way!!!!

 

EDIT: Oh... I'm excited about this so I'm gonna talk about it. Leo's b-day is in Sept. I want to make him something. Well, in particular, I want to sew him an ammo pouch for his revolver ammo. He lives in a state where open carry is legal and does it everywhere he goes. He never has extra ammo though, and while carrying a little pouch of it may not be necessary, I still think it would be a sweet idea and show I'm thinking of him, without being totally extravagant.. shows I put effort into it. Also I'd like to learn how to make something like that for myself lol. But yeah... totally ecstatic about making it. I'm gonna filch an empty casing from his place as soon as I can get alone in the room to pick one up. Shouldn't be too hard, usually he falls asleep while we watch stuff and its easy to leave him for a min, he usually doesn't get up until I rouse him (heeeaaavy sleeper). But yeah, using that casing, I'm going to measure out stretchy fabric so they can be slid in (like stretch pencil holders in a binder). It'll be small, like smaller than wallet size, probably only carry like 10-12 rounds. But still neat, and I really think he'll appreciate it. Its a fold style with a velcro fastening. Might make the velcro a snap, not sure yet. Also not sure how thick I can get the fabric... it has to be pretty tough. We'll see... eee.

 

Also,

 

 

Maybe you can get part-time pregnant too?

 

Lol >D

Edited June 26, 2011 by Kaito

[Kaito]

Quick update... nothing spectacular, but I'm happy and love to share it

 

Spent the night at Leo's last night and going back in a minute. He's been very cuddly lately.. since my birthday actually... specifically since he's been to my house, not sure of the connection but for some reason he's now more touchy feely when we're watching movies/shows and when we settle in for bed. Yay ^_^ I love it. Its kinda sad I notice these small changes, isn't it? I guess every little bit is like: omg yaaaaaay. I've always been pretty easy to please lol. Got to enjoy the little things, yes?

 

Anyway gotta get out of here. Ex comes tomorrow after work to get stuff. I don't want to see him but at least it'll be so much better now cause he's got someone else and won't be pining after me anymore... thank goodness.

[coffeeaddict]

Part-time pregnant, classic. Or maybe a part time alcohol, to become a part-time alcohol you just get plastered slightly less often than a full-time alcoholic.

 

Great news about the new gf, if you're lucky maybe it means he'll walk out of your life permanently, but at the same time I'd be cautious. Watch out for a request to "let's be friends and keep in touch to talk about our new lives" or something of that nature.

 

I remember once upon a time somewhere back in May he said that "He was moving on" and "Was thankful for the chance to change," and that was a subterfuge which preceded a series of overtures to you. If he has a new gf it appears he's moved on from you, you might not think he's pursuing you anymore.

 

I'm just trying to keep your guard up. A healthy dose of paranoia never hurt anyone, lol.

 

Above all, if he asks to remain in your life in any capacity, the best advice I can give you is don't forget what he did to you.

 

It's amazing how he stripped me away to mold me how he wanted, and now that he is gone I feel so empty.

 

That quote illustrates how much you've gained in a relatively short period of time, but also illustrates the danger.

[Kaito]

Sorry for the late reply. I forgot I read this a while ago, dunno why I never responded. Maybe I was working. Anyway...

 

 

Oh, I know to be cautious. This new GF has him out of my hair, for sure, but that presents new problems. So far him not "****ing around" hasn't... quite... shown through. He still seemingly ignores me, although not as bad as before, and according to him its cause he's working all the time so he doesn't lose everything. I guess I believe that. But anyway... he's a pain to see, it was annoying when he came over last time cause he saw some movies I was gonna keep that he says were his. Well, they were.. one I gave him as a present and the other was a movie I got him into, but I wanted the complete set so I tried to keep them. Well, I guess that was wrong of me. He took a few of them back, but let me keep some. I dunno, I felt entitled I guess. He likes to think he helped me out but really I lost the most money in this thing. The $2,000 I paid for the car he wanted, I never got back. The ~$400-500 I paid for a medical bill that he wasn't paying and still haven't paid off. Granted, I kept some stuff he bought (a couch... didn't want it but whatever, I'll take it), and he did buy me some stuff (most of it unwanted, but some of it I do like). Still, he used to act like he did me a huge favor in my life, but he forgets that I paid my way through it too and had my contributions. Now that he's without me, he's seeing how hard it is to keep up with his payments. Even if he didn't lose his job, he'd be struggling.

 

Moving on. Its a pain in the ass to get him out here -- DKJHDSfjkhsdfjkhsdfjk

 

OMG No joke, I just got a text from him as I'm typing to you. Coffee you got the nail RIGHT on the head:

 

"Kaito, you are a great person. I enjoyed watching you grow. Sorry I was a boy and not a man. I never want to lose touch with you."

 

Wooooooow. No thanks, boy. I want you so far gone I have to buy tickets from NASA to ever see you again.

 

I really hope he treats his new girl better than he treated me. And he better not ever tell her little girl anything half as terrible as he would tell his son. Apparently he's good with little girls though, I dunno.

 

Anyway, moving on. Its been a pain to get him out here to get his stuff, but at the same time I really hate seeing him. Omg he is so annoying. How did I ever like this guy? I mean, I know how. I know what I was into then, my state of mind, the attention I got and loved. Christ, I'd still love to be doted on like that again -- how it was in the beginning. But honestly, it was such a set-up for failure. I mean, for Leo to treat me in a way like my ex did our first week of dating, I'd never wonder how he felt about me. I'd feel much more secure about it. Not that I want that all the time, I enjoy how we are now... but I do admit having concerns about how he feels about me. I don't think he is quite as into me as I am into him. We may hang out a lot, but the intimacy isn't as much as I'd like. I think I may just not be up to his par as far as looks go.

 

Yeah I just switched focus there... But I just don't care to talk about my ex too much.

 

Leo and I have been "seeing" each other for 2 months. In fact, its been almost exactly 2 months since the first time we slept together. But it seems our intimacy is waning. Or maybe its just me? I dunno. I like to think his sex drive is just less than what I'm used to, but maybe he just isn't into me and is instead letting me hang around in that capacity cause, well, what guy wouldn't? I like to think he's not like that but I honestly don't know,and I'm afraid to give him more credit than I should. I'm really good at expecting the best from people and getting much less.

 

Still. He's there for me always, we hang out almost every night. Its like we're close friends who often cuddle, sometimes do more. I don't want to be a "friends with benefits". I don't like that BS -- I don't believe in it. But I'm afraid I might be thrusting myself into that capacity without meaning to. I guess thats what the "friend zone" is for girls. I don't want to just be his friend. I want more security than that... I want to be considered his, and him mine. I don't think that's too possessive either, I think I have a right to want to be in a more steady relationship. I'm not the casual dating type. As far as I've gathered from him, he's not either. But I still have my concerns, and I'm afraid to ask and ruin what might turn into a good thing.

 

So... if I'm still having these concerns... I mean, I think its still too soon to worry, I barely know the guy (all things considered -- it takes months to really get to know someone, longer perhaps). But if I still feel uncertain say... in another month or more... when should I start asking questions? If in 3, or maybe 5 months, I'm not sure how he feels and things are more or less the same, how can I go about it to ask, "Hey... so are we a couple, or have I entered into friends with benefits without realizing it?" Part of me never wants to ask. I figure, either we'll go on like that and one day he'll surprise me and it'll become more serious. Or, we'll go on like that and one day I'll be hurt cause he's deciding he found someone else. I mean, that second route will hurt... but why bring myself that pain sooner than need be? I'm not in any hurry to find anyone and settle down, so I figure I can enjoy what we have, whatever it is, until something like that happens.

 

What are all your thoughts? Am I still being too paranoid? Time is going by fast, and it seems like no progress by way of "seriousness" is being made. I mean, maybe some is. He's coming over my place now, he's sort of become part of my life, not just because I'm asking but also because he's offering. For instance, offering me help, saying he'll do this or that for me around my house, or we'll do it together... etc. Saying we'll do this or that together -- you know, "making plans" of sorts... but, then again, all of it could be stuff two close friends would do for each other, which is where my concern stems from. He very rarely displays any sort of intimacy toward me without me initiating it. Sometimes he is more "aggressive" with it, but its rare. Sigh. Again, I guess it could just be his sex drive is lower than I'm used to, or else he isn't in the mood due to other concerns in his life (I get like that too -- when something is going on that has me a little stressed I'm usually not in the mood, but nothing has been like that for me lately... he, however, does have many things to be concerned about.)

 

Insight please!!

[betterdeal]

Sounds like the honeymoon period is coming to an end. Now you're into really interesting territory where you and he can grow a lot, together. Discuss things with him. For instance, you want to have fun together, and to communicate openly with each other, right, for there to be ways you will both know when the other person is up for sexy times, and when is a time for space, for business, for cuddles, for playing monopoly, just to be able to bond well.

 

So you kind of have to put some feelers out, find out what his way of telling you stuff is, and practice your ways of telling him things. Now you guys are getting to know some really subtle and nuanced stuff about each other. You're into the deep tissue now. It's easier to get this sort of idea across if you approach it playfully, inquisitively, as a learning thing, and, like the rest of life, the secret of success is practice.

 

So take a wee step back, a calm breath and consider how far you have come, how well you have done, where you are know compared to a year ago, and feel the energy you are creating now flowing all around you. Then get back into the fray of life once more and keep on keeping on!

[Kaito]

Sounds like the honeymoon period is coming to an end. Now you're into really interesting territory where you and he can grow a lot, together. Discuss things with him. For instance, you want to have fun together, and to communicate openly with each other, right, for there to be ways you will both know when the other person is up for sexy times, and when is a time for space, for business, for cuddles, for playing monopoly, just to be able to bond well.

 

So you kind of have to put some feelers out, find out what his way of telling you stuff is, and practice your ways of telling him things. Now you guys are getting to know some really subtle and nuanced stuff about each other. You're into the deep tissue now. It's easier to get this sort of idea across if you approach it playfully, inquisitively, as a learning thing, and, like the rest of life, the secret of success is practice.

 

So take a wee step back, a calm breath and consider how far you have come, how well you have done, where you are know compared to a year ago, and feel the energy you are creating now flowing all around you. Then get back into the fray of life once more and keep on keeping on!

 

Thanks. I asked my friend and he too thinks we should talk about it, that I should ask how he feels about us.

 

 

As far as finding out those nuances about him, I have already picked up on a lot of stuff. But I still am unsure about how he feels because I don't know how he really expresses that stuff. How does he act around a girlfriend? I have no idea. Is he acting that way around me? If I knew these things I wouldn't be concerned.

 

I've decided to ask him how he feels about us. And, if he says we're just friends, I'm going to cut off our intimacy. I'm not the type to date around and do "friends with benefits". I'm only interested in serious, long term stuff when it comes to being physical. So... at least I'll have gained a good friend either way. I'll be sad that it doesn't work out. I REALLY like him. But I can't keep this up either if its just a fling to him. Not my style. I wish I knew how he was... whether or not he feels the same way I do... without having to ask. But after just knowing him a couple months, and not being able to really see how he is around a whole lot of other people, I just can't know how he feels or how he acts without asking.

[betterdeal]

Or maybe by hanging out with him and other people at the same time, to see how he behaves with other people? Or, you can try the I feel ... because of ... and I'd like you to ... formula, e.g.

 

I feel unsure about us because I don't know how you feel, and I'd like you to try telling me how you feel a bit more.

Edited July 12, 2011 by betterdeal

[Kaito]

Well, I asked him how he felt about us. At first it was , "I dunno." Then he said he enjoys hanging out with me. He doesn't want that to stop. He said he's not looking for anything else right now, but also not looking for anything serious. He mentioned still being hurt by what his ex did to him, how he never was physically ill until after that happened and now he's got a lot of health problems (PVCs, grey hair, bad eyesight, etc). He also mentioned how he's busy with school now (true) and also how he doesn't have a job and hasn't had one in two years, and he doesn't want to be that bum boyfriend.

 

He also mentioned how I just got out of a relationship. Now, this doesn't bother me in the slightest, as you all know, but clearly it bothers him at least enough to mention. I guess its right for him to be cautious of me in that regard.

 

But he said that if it would make me more comfortable, we could stop the sexual stuff.

 

I told him I enjoyed hanging out too, I enjoyed the sexual stuff but that, until / if we got serious, that we should stop being sexual.

 

I am so sad now I am going to miss touching him so much. But, the touching has been kind of one sided mostly anyway. I give him more attention than he's given me so I guess its a good thing... not fair to me to keep giving him attention and getting only a fraction back. I dunno. I just wanted to know what it felt like to be his girlfriend... what would he act like if he was serious? I wonder if I'll ever know.

 

Seriously though... my timing sucks. I guess it always has. Maybe it would have been better if I met him a few months from now. Then again, maybe not. I think the time we're hanging out is important to build trust. Also, he's helping me a lot, moving on from my ex... not emotionally, but I mean because he's there to help me around my house and stuff, which is nice. Not that I couldn't do it on my own, but he does make my life easier.

 

Grr. I really like Leo ;_; I actually don't think I realized how much until I just severed that physical tie. I've never had a fling before, but... maybe that's all that was.

 

At least we'll still be hanging out and still friends. I know we'll be good friends but I definitely want more than that. I just hope I can get over that thought/feeling and not let it come between us.

[betterdeal]

It was an in-between thing, and they're cool. Don't be sad it's over - be happy it happened.

[Kaito]

It was an in-between thing, and they're cool. Don't be sad it's over - be happy it happened.

 

I don't know what an in-between thing is... well, maybe I do now, but I was definitely not okay with it. I like him too much to just be a friend he has fun with. F that. That's still not me. I suppose I should have been smarter and less hopeful that all this hanging out and intimacy meant something more. :\ I suppose I am glad it happened though, I definitely don't regret the opportunity I had to be that close to someone so great. It's funny. I'm very picky with guys I like, but I always seem to find them at the worst times. Leo was only my third partner. I still hope in the future he can remain the last. :\

[Trimmer]

Kaito - I hope you're doing well, and that you can look at your time with Leo as a pleasant experience.

 

Have you spent very much time of your adult life "on your own", i.e. not being in a relationship? For some people that is a really scary idea, but you might consider that just being on your own for a while, and not scrambling to fill that space with a relationship, will let you fill out your own life as a strong, confident, capable individual, without having to depend on a realtionship to fill some perceived void.

 

Different people are different of course, but I always suggest that as weird as it may sound to some people, a period of growth by oneself can be a real beneficial thing... I believe you need to be able to be a complete, strong, confident individual by yourself first, before you can really have a good relationship.

[Kaito]

QUOTE=Trimmer;3510894]Kaito - I hope you're doing well, and that you can look at your time with Leo as a pleasant experience.

 

Have you spent very much time of your adult life "on your own", i.e. not being in a relationship? For some people that is a really scary idea, but you might consider that just being on your own for a while, and not scrambling to fill that space with a relationship, will let you fill out your own life as a strong, confident, capable individual, without having to depend on a realtionship to fill some perceived void.

 

Different people are different of course, but I always suggest that as weird as it may sound to some people, a period of growth by oneself can be a real beneficial thing... I believe you need to be able to be a complete, strong, confident individual by yourself first, before you can really have a good relationship.

 

I know this. And I strongly believe it. That was my plan originally but its hard for me to turn away when I find something. No matter, ill be doing it this way now, which is certainly for the best. I don't necessarily see why I can't grow as a person and be in a relationship.. but I guess another person is very influential, more so as a lover than a friend.

[betterdeal]

I don't know what an in-between thing is... well, maybe I do now, but I was definitely not okay with it. I like him too much to just be a friend he has fun with. F that. That's still not me. I suppose I should have been smarter and less hopeful that all this hanging out and intimacy meant something more. :\ I suppose I am glad it happened though, I definitely don't regret the opportunity I had to be that close to someone so great. It's funny. I'm very picky with guys I like, but I always seem to find them at the worst times. Leo was only my third partner. I still hope in the future he can remain the last. :\

 

The thing is, you're just out of a relationship and he's been consistent in saying he's not ready for a long term relationship, so, as I see it, it was an in-between long term relationships relationship. And it is a bit deflating in one sense to have something that doesn't grow, but it was also fun at times, so you can choose to take what you want from it.

 

Hell, I don't know what the future will hold. Leo might loosen up and become more interested in growing with you. He might not. People come and go. Such is life. I know couples who are married and have kids, but they also spent a good ten years apart, with other partners, single, doing their own things. More of life is down to serendipity than we sometimes allow for.

 

You know you want the whole thing, to hand over your souls with someone else so that you may both carry them safely to the grave, so, now you're over your abusive ex and you've apparently come to the end of the in-between thing, you're in a good position to consider something a bit different from your last couple of relationships. Something that develops more organically, to grow together with someone and for it to become long term, over a long time. Less rushing around, more smooth.

[Kaito]

Thanks Betterdeal. Also, I'm sorry cause I totally forgot to update this.

 

So, after hanging out with him a couple more nights (and a few nights apart cause I worked), turns out... we had sex again. Kind of like one of those things where you can't resist I guess. I know I should have stuck to my guns but I can't say I didn't want to either.

 

I talked to him again about it. I said clearly I was okay with us continuing this way because I didn't want it to stop. I also told him that, although he said he wasn't looking for anything else, if he ever decided he wanted to sleep with someone else that he needs to tell me so we can stop. He agreed. So.. there it is. And I'm happy about it. I think the uncertainty of where I stood bothered me, but knowing exactly what he thinks now actually was very liberating and I feel sooooo much better. I'm really enjoying my time with him now without that constant thought of "what am I to him? how much does he like me?" And I totally get it now, too. I used to think "why not be serious if you like someone? What's this whole 'going too fast' business"? But I get it. I know what it means. Serious means you gotta start thinking about futures together. I can't be thinking about that now, I don't even want to. That means moving stuff, integrating, attaching in more material ways. And there is no no no no way I'm ready for that. I guess, I didn't mean that when I mean serious. Serious to me is just a title and a promise to stay exclusive. Well... I don't have the title, but I have a promise to remain exclusive until the desire to be together intimately is over. And what else is there to the beginnings of a relationship? Not much. Seriousness can come later, if it will. I'm happy with what we've got now. And, if he decides to move on, then I can as well, no big deal. I'll miss it of course.. mostly just because I honestly feel we could be an excellent couple together, long term... and I'd mourn for the loss of that possibility. But I know I can move on. Granted, I also am enjoying this single thing a lot... being able to do what I want with my stuff and not having to answer to anyone about anything. I don't think I even want to get serious anytime soon. I'm still feeling this out... still growing. Yeah.. there's too much growing to do right now.

 

If I become serious with Leo one day, I'll be super happy. For now, I am also super happy. Win-win.

[betterdeal]

Now that sounds great! Serious is too often a synonym for dependent. Relationships are best when they're fun and full of joy. Sure, there will be lulls and learning periods, like you've just had, but overall, it's about enjoying yourself. And you are, which is champion

[Lisa_H]

I was terrified because I had just gotten out of a relationship with a man who was very often angry. But he never showed anger how my fiance has and sometimes still does.

 

I feel bad for you. The most scary thing about this is that you are attracting this kind of man and until you figure out why and how to fix - you will remain in this cycle.

 

Please get some coaching for yourself and THEN you will realize you deserve the best and how to attract the best person for you.

 

My ex husband could sometimes be angry and abusive. He never hit me, but he did scare the crap out of me and one night put me in a choke hold.

 

It is very hard to go through. I was determined to "make it work" He said he would get help but never did. These outburst seemed to happen about once every three months or so. I continued to allow it - sure I would get mad and threaten if he didn't get help I would divorce him, but nothing really ever changed.

 

The best thing that ever happened to me -- HE LEFT ME!!

 

I think you need to focus on yourself and getting yourself where you need to be. Then you can find the strength you need to feel GOOD about demanding respect from any person you choose to be in a relationship with.

 

I wish you the best of luck and my heart goes out to you.

[Kaito]

I feel bad for you. The most scary thing about this is that you are attracting this kind of man and until you figure out why and how to fix - you will remain in this cycle.

 

Please get some coaching for yourself and THEN you will realize you deserve the best and how to attract the best person for you.

 

My ex husband could sometimes be angry and abusive. He never hit me, but he did scare the crap out of me and one night put me in a choke hold.

 

It is very hard to go through. I was determined to "make it work" He said he would get help but never did. These outburst seemed to happen about once every three months or so. I continued to allow it - sure I would get mad and threaten if he didn't get help I would divorce him, but nothing really ever changed.

 

The best thing that ever happened to me -- HE LEFT ME!!

 

I think you need to focus on yourself and getting yourself where you need to be. Then you can find the strength you need to feel GOOD about demanding respect from any person you choose to be in a relationship with.

 

I wish you the best of luck and my heart goes out to you.

 

Thankfully, I am not attracting that kind of man anymore. Probably because I stand on my own now and am strong, not an easy victim.

 

But yeah, clearly moved on from here lol. I should probably update that original post...

 

Also, I wanted to add: The best part about this decision to keep things going with Leo was that I made it all on my own. It was the first time I didn't come here for advice, or go to one of my friends/family members for advice. I had asked my friend for advice on what to do about feeling uncertain -- his idea was to talk to Leo. I did, which lead to the "no touch" rule. I tried that out, wasn't liking it, thought about alternatives, and decided to go with it. Made my own decision! I know thats really no big deal but it felt good. I told my friend about my decision and he said, "That's the first time you came to me saying 'this is what I want, this is how I'm doing it' without asking for help. It doesn't matter what I think of it, because you know what you're doing now." I think he was proud of me lol. Might be silly, but its a profound difference in how I'm being... definitely getting used to this idea of not having to get approval for stuff before deciding to do it, and just going for what I feel is right. I guess after so long of being that way, I didn't even notice I was doing it!!

[Kaito]

Update..

 

Ex has FINALLY closed the bank account both our names were on, however it was attached to a savings acct that only has my name on it, so I gotta take care of that. Had no idea. He was like: I need that money too, I guess that's what I get for waiting till the last minute. I replied: Way past last minute.... (He closed it about 2 months late).

 

Things with Leo are great. After that talk and sad few days thinking I'd never get to be intimate with him again, things have moved on and are better than before. Still enjoying each other's time, hanging out a lot, he's more cuddly in bed and I looooove it. I've way calmed down with that whole worrying "how does he feel about me!?" I just don't think about it anymore... I just... live, I guess. How it should be, of course. I get focused in on things way too easily and tend to overreact at times. I'm glad that's over.

 

I've taken two trips now to take things to me ex because he's too broke to take the trip here. I don't exactly want him here, but its a lot better if he comes cause his car is bigger than mine and can fit a lot more in it. Its almost all out!! I can't believe how long its taking... but I guess I can't get him totally out of my hair until his names off my house, anyway. :\

 

The truck in both our names has a few ppl interested in buying it, but it can't be sold until I bring the title and some other stuff up to my dad (he's the one selling it). I take that up this weekend. I can't wait to get rid of that payment. Ex keeps asking for the truck, saying I can sell his Kia instead and hopefully lose less money, and he'll make payments on the truck. I laugh at that cause he can barely afford the stuff he pays for now, he's missed payments -- AND my name is on that truck. No thanks, I don't need to worry about that... unless he could somehow refinance and get my name off, which I do not trust him to do in any sort of timely fashion. Plus, its in no way my responsibility to sell his Kia!!!

 

I started working on my presentation today for the police academy -- about abusive men / patterns of abuse. I'm kind of excited, even though it'll be many months before I will be able to present.

 

Work is going well. I'm taking really good care of myself now... eating better, working out semi-regularly (I could workout more but its better than nothing!). I have a triathlon this weekend with my mother and I'm excited. In some ways I'm in better shape now than I was with my last triathlon, so I'm hoping I have no trouble finishing.

 

But yeah.. I'm trying to lose weight. Its easy to be motivated since Leo is very handsome and thin/fit, and he stays relatively active. I don't quite feel worthy to be with him so I keep myself active enough to lose weight but I'm not going too crazy with it. I still enjoy myself. But... I haven't had any way to measure my weight loss, I just sort of feel like I've lost some. I feel sexier, like clothes fit better and look nicer but I'm hoping its not just in my head.

 

Oh, I cut my hair quite short. I'm not in love with it, but its something I do every few years when I feel inspired. I grow my hair long then kinda chop it all off. When its short I have way more confidence, and overall more energetic / motivated, have an easier time losing weight since I kinda feel like only thinner, good looking girls can pull off short hair lol. So I gotta try harder to look okay lol, I can't just hide behind my mess of hair.

 

I also bought myself some new clothes, stuff that shows more skin. I actually bought shorts, which I haven't worn since........ ..... ever... lol. My legs aren't great but they're getting better. I've been trying to tan outside on nice days too so I'm not so pale / farmers tan because of work.

 

Oh. I've been spending my time teaching myself new things. ASL, Polish, Irish, how to play violin, etc... reading a lot... I'm having a lot of fun.

 

Anyway, I better go do some stuff. I'm being kind of lazy today, its my first day off from work.

[CopingGal]

Hi. I wasn't able to read your whole posting, but I read a lot of it. first of all, I think you should just start with counseling or a hot line before you make any decisions. Do this right. Call a hot line and get some advice. Once you get away, you need to report him to the ASPCA. What he is doing to that innocent creature is horrible. Just horrible. What he did to you is horrible too. Stand up for yourself but at a safe distance. Stand up for the dog too. The dog can't speak for itself but you can. Also, sorry you had to go through this.

[Kaito]

I really need to update the first post.... does anyone know how to do this???