wife filed D in March M 26 yrs , MLC?? hope?

[hydin]

Hi all, Here is my story... Ask for more info if needed. Still in houses with W. M 26 yrs, D 20, S 18, S 16. Sep 12/2010. Div filed 3/11

 

W said ILYBNILWY in January. No abuse, alcohol, cheating (not that I know of) etc. She is home every night only opportunity to meet /be with someone is during part time job at school. Twice during separation (separate bedrooms 12/10) she said she would attend M C. Both times saw IC and changed her mind. Said she wanted D first of March. At collaborative divorce counselor she was asked why she wanted a divorce. When she gave the reasons (looked through her stuff and put her pillow outside the bedroom door (after she was sleeping in another room for two weeks). C asked us to wait 30 days to do anything... not hire lawyers, no relationship talk.

 

W want to lawyer (1st one appt) and waited there until it was filed... after 4 days... not the agreed 30.

 

We are both in the house. She cooks meals, washes clothes. Checks in and really acts married. Her IC is driving this D. I asked her best friend after 3 weeks and she was shocked w had filed. W said kids would not be shocked. They were..

 

No relationship talk since until last wk since filing. She expected to be invited to my families Easter dinner... asked me if I had to tell my brother and sister before the dinner... I told her she isn't going. I am taking the boys. I later asked her if she was feeling some doubt and was that why she did not want anyone told. She said no, she had not changed her mind and thought there was no chance of reconciling.

 

It is like she is living a fantasy. W is 49. She has no idea on finances and costs of living separate. She seems to think she can get the house with a part time income of 11,000.

 

I need some advice on being in house with her. I work out of the house. She wants to sit with me in Church, at events.. Wants to share a hotel room later this month at a kids event. She even told me when Easter Dinner came up "we are going to spend dinners together as a family for holidays, Right? I said I did not think so. She either does not have a clue about what is coming or she has it all figured out and is playing dumb. She is smart but I feel very depressed. Listens constantly to books on tape with head phones in. No friends or social life. She has been out two nights since January.

 

I want to reconcile but it is getting tough not to get down. Kids are great and seem to realize what is happening and who is driving it. No one expected this that I have talked to.

 

W is not talking to her lawyer or pushing things. Took over 3 weeks to get the papers to my lawyer for me to sign...Her L also sent me an e mail on Easter morning saying that W and he were writing up final settlement proposal on Wed. this week and he hoped it would be amicable. Nice touch...while at brunch with w and Kids...

 

She blames me for her unhappiness. D 19 is not coming home this summer. This news hit at same time she started this spiral to D. I think it is menopause and depression. She seems to snap every once and a while into detachment or meanness.

 

Any ideas? next steps?

[dreamingoftigers]

Divorce Busters 180 pronto.

 

She is not thinking rational/straight and has fog written all over her.

 

Check everywhere and I mean everywhere for evidence of an A.

 

If she isn't out often, does she use the internet frequently? A lot of the older 30+ women seem to have a bit of a problem with getting sucked into online relationships and having emotional affairs.

 

The ILYBINILWY speech is practically gospel for: "You are nice, but he's banging me right now."

 

Start the 180 and don't be one tiny iota of a little bit scared of her walking on you, she is going to test you, test the Hell out of you. Then she will most likely snap her head back on straight. Especially since she is still living with you and trying to be so friendly. This is not a woman who knows what she wants. Let her actions and choices have merit. You don't throw out a D unless you are going to back it up.

 

The counselor is a symptom of the problem, not the crux of it.

[GorillaTheater]

I think you're on the right path. Keep staying away from relationship talks unless she's the one who brings them up, and even then keep it short and keep a pretty tight rein on any attempt to blame this mess on you. "You chose this, not me."

 

Easter was handled correctly, IMO. gives her a healthy dose of reality: the family is breaking up, she's the one doing it, and you're not willing to accept a demotion to "just friends" nor "lie by conduct" in front of others that everything's just peachy in your relationship. Keep this up. Make her see what she's giving up.

 

Take a look at the 180 list:

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000476

 

That stuff makes an impact. It may not save your marriage, but it will make her stop and think. Something she appears to not be doing much at this point.

 

And get a lawyer. ASAP. This isn't to declare war on your wife or play into her game, this is you protecting yourself and your children because nobody else is going to do that job for you.

[hydin]

I have a lawyer and am getting ready to respond to the complaint next week. This weekend she was expecting me to drive 8 hrs away with her for S18's event and stay in the same hotel room. I am flying down and have my own room. I have started a 180.. tough in the same house. I don't speak to her unless we actually cross paths. I agree she is confused. Counselor is telling her to "stand up for herself" and I fear she now feels if she reconciles she will not be doing that.. She says one thing when we have talked then sees the counselor and takes a firm stand against what she said two days earlier. A is a slight possibility but would have limited hours. I have been checking "things" and have seen nothing yet. Divorced friend at work also not helping.

 

Thanks for the advice... keep it coming. I am GAL and going to counseling.

[hydin]

Oh and she is not on facebook and does not spend much time on line on computer.. just playing solitaire. She also listens to books on tape in earphones nonstop.

[worldgonewrong]

Forgive this side bar, but I utter it in empathy to your situation:

 

But after reading this, shouldn't there be a law that prevents counselors from busting up other-wise-savable marriages?! I would love to see the stats (not that they exist) of counselors who have influenced the demise of marriages, rightly and/or wrongly so.

 

Sometimes a counselor can be the best thing for a sh*tty marriage, but sometimes the counselor can accelerate the break-up, toxic-like, in a decent marriage. Especially if the dumper is 'confused' and impressionable to any sort of nudge.

 

Pardon my raging at the sky.

[hydin]

W filed after 6 hours of counseling and the counselor never even asked to talk to me. Best part is she is from our church... retiring in June and Pastor is extremely embarrassed and pissed off...we both are very active in church. Same counselor lead another active couple to divorce last year...

[worldgonewrong]

I sympathize, hydin. By the time my wife and I had our 2 meager MC sessions together, the separation was already a 'done deal' thanks to my wife's independent counseling that preceded. I'm STILL livid at that therapist for throwing oil on the fire. Man, if we lived our lives according to how we "feel" all the time, we might as well be apes picking nits off each other's backsides.

[GorillaTheater]

I have a lawyer and am getting ready to respond to the complaint next week.

 

Good.

 

This weekend she was expecting me to drive 8 hrs away with her for S18's event and stay in the same hotel room. I am flying down and have my own room.

 

Very good.

 

I have started a 180.. tough in the same house. I don't speak to her unless we actually cross paths. I agree she is confused. Counselor is telling her to "stand up for herself" and I fear she now feels if she reconciles she will not be doing that.. She says one thing when we have talked then sees the counselor and takes a firm stand against what she said two days earlier.

 

Nothing's going to be easy about this brother. However it goes, it will likely be the toughest thing you've ever done in your life. The good news? That likewise however it turns out, you will learn more about yourself (good and bad) and more about your depths of strength than you ever thought possible. (There has to be SOME kind of silver lining to this sh*t fest, right?)

 

A is a slight possibility but would have limited hours. I have been checking "things" and have seen nothing yet. Divorced friend at work also not helping.

 

I know what the ILYBINILWY usually means. May not be the case here but you're well-served by keeping your eyes open.

 

Really, this whole thing just reeks of an MLC. If it is, odds are she's not going to snap out of it soon, if ever. But just like the ILYBINILWY thing, there are general truths but no certainties. The best way to get through it in any event is to focus on you and the kids.

[Soxfaninfl]

Forgive this side bar, but I utter it in empathy to your situation:

 

But after reading this, shouldn't there be a law that prevents counselors from busting up other-wise-savable marriages?! I would love to see the stats (not that they exist) of counselors who have influenced the demise of marriages, rightly and/or wrongly so.

 

Sometimes a counselor can be the best thing for a sh*tty marriage, but sometimes the counselor can accelerate the break-up, toxic-like, in a decent marriage. Especially if the dumper is 'confused' and impressionable to any sort of nudge.

 

Pardon my raging at the sky.

 

I had a bad counselor also. We went separately at first for a month and a half and when we finally went together my stbxw said I don't want this anymore! She said the same thing in the 2nd session and it was over. I told her at the end of the session that she didn't help. Can you report a counselor? She was horrible.

[worldgonewrong]

Really, this whole thing just reeks of an MLC.

 

 

what's an MLC???

[worldgonewrong]

Can you report a counselor?

 

Damn good question. I should research that.

[GorillaTheater]

what's an MLC???

 

Mid Life Crisis. There's some controversy in professional circles as to whether MLC exists, but not in my mind.

[worldgonewrong]

thanks, GT.

Of course, Mid Life Crisis. The acronyms fly fast & furious around here, so sometimes I blank out.

And YES. I agree - MLC does indeed exist.

[GorillaTheater]

One common aspect of MLC seems to be unresolved childhood issues. Hydin, are you aware of any history of abuse or abandonment with your wife? It may be neither here nor there, you certainly have more immediate issues to deal with. But knowledge is power, and just as Wayward Wives tend to follow a script (thus giving you a game plan), so do MLCers.

[hydin]

Father career army. In Vietnam on and off for long periods when she was under 13. Other things that are interesting... Grandmother's husband died in early 50's and she lived with W and family until 93... Father would go to to their house in FLA without his wife from 58 until 70 for anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months twice a year. When Grandmother died this stopped. I really don't know much about her childhood as far as details of abuse or year by year stuff. Mom ran household even when Dad was home. Still does. in mid 70's.

[Yasuandio]

Of course, therapists can provide counterproductive methods -- it's all in what type of theriapist you sign up for. Divorce Busters and Marriage Builders sites recommend therapists trained in "solution-based" methodologies. The concept of solution, in and of itself, suggests the therapy has an end game plan. Such a theraputacal model may not be as lucritive for some therapists.

 

I can also tell you that there is little reason to believe that your wife is so heavily influenced by the therapist. The heart wants what the heart wants, no matter what llogical rationales are drawn by family, friend, church pastors, associates, theripists, and/or medical professionals.

 

The only way you wife's real "wants" could be swayed is through some sort of mind control. Or, if your wife has no mind of her own, and does not think for herself -- then, it's possible she could be influenced. Give the woman some credit, she is not walking around mindlessly, with a blank empty stare, with arms sticking out straight forward, right?

[hydin]

same counselor led another couple to divorce last year.... W has changed her mind 4 times about counseling AFTER telling me she would go.. that she could not tell the kids she had tried everything.... visits counselor and then comes right home and says no MC. Won't answer questions.. delays answer until she sees her counselor. Not under mind control but very confused and only variable is counselor... explains to me why she wants to go to MC on Sunday... WED after counseling appt no MC? interesting at least.

 

In any case, I have no control in the situation. If she wants a D then it will get done.

[Yasuandio]

The variable may not necessarily be the therapist. It could be any feeling, person, and situations that are subject to therapy, including herself, not to mention her general opinions regarding the validity of such treatment. Natually, their are infinite variables - that's why you can just draw that assumption that therapist is leading her by the nose.

 

Likewise, an example of a single couple that fell into divorce with this therapist is not convincing either. It doesn't matter if you can come up with ten couples that fell into divorce with this therapist, because you do not two important things:

 

1). How many married has she served successfully/unsuccessfully (assuming success is staying married -- which is an entirely different set of numbers you will need to support this study.

 

2). You would have to sort out and catorgize all the variations in the marital discords, and assign them a value, so you could measure your outcome. Designing such instrumentation is a study in and of itself -- but someone has probable designed one in the field of psychology.

 

Sorry, this is what happens when I am confronted with geralizations. Do you see my point? Don't jump to conclusions too fast.

 

Try you instincts. Does you wife have good self-esteem? Is she decisive? Fair, honest, compulsive, impulsive, naive, impressionable, mind-of-her-own, pro-active? Does she typically use good judgment? Does she exhibit warmth, emaphaty, love, kindness? Is she a giver, is she a taker? Think about her other communicative, intellectual, emotional, and moral qualities, then, match them to the actions you are observing. If there are incongruencies, you can bet some's fishy in Denmark.

[robf1971]

Mid Life Crisis. There's some controversy in professional circles as to whether MLC exists, but not in my mind.

 

IMO an MLC is just a p*ss poor excuse for adult bad behaviour.

[worldgonewrong]

Yas- I hear what you're saying & agree for the most part.

My point re the counselor angle is that sometimes if a person is vulnerable and is seeking authority to make the decision (or sway it) without the guilt of assuming responsibility for the decision, then a therapist can play that role. No, I don't think his wife is like a zombie being led around. BUT if a therapist tells you what you WANT to hear -- as opposed to hearing some good, hard truths that conflict with your own preconceived notions -- then that therapist is not necessarily doing that person (or the other person in the relationship) a service.

[HopelessinDTW]

The therapist give you his/her opinion based on what YOU tell them. She could very easily tell the therapist a bunch of BS, and basically the therapist will tell her exactly what she wants to hear. The hallmark MLC trait is to blame everyone/everything except themselves for all their unhappiness. If the therapist hears only one side of the story, how could they not side with you?

[worldgonewrong]

If the therapist hears only one side of the story, how could they not side with you?

 

true. by the same token, a good therapist will also pull you out of any narcissistic tendencies and help you see your own culpability.

[hydin]

The fun starts.. W saw lawyer today and he sent a request to my lawyer that I just file a few documents and don't bother with the others he requested with the filing. I have put all the docs together and it is an 8 inch stack. Nice touch... ask for 5 years of docs and then 3 weeks later say never mind....

 

I have not seen her financial docs since she did not file them when the divorce was filed like she should have... wonder what is in the statements from the cards in her name only... Hmmmm Wonder if she has separate account somewhere... Hmmmm.

 

Why would lawyer say just send balance for 401 k and sworn financial disclosure and we will send our settlement offer... without W supplying anything.... I don't think so.... Can't wait to see her charge statements...

[2sunny]

IMO an MLC is just a p*ss poor excuse for adult bad behaviour.

 

 

INDEED...

 

 

The fun starts.. W saw lawyer today and he sent a request to my lawyer that I just file a few documents and don't bother with the others he requested with the filing. I have put all the docs together and it is an 8 inch stack. Nice touch... ask for 5 years of docs and then 3 weeks later say never mind....

 

I have not seen her financial docs since she did not file them when the divorce was filed like she should have... wonder what is in the statements from the cards in her name only... Hmmmm Wonder if she has separate account somewhere... Hmmmm.

 

Why would lawyer say just send balance for 401 k and sworn financial disclosure and we will send our settlement offer... without W supplying anything.... I don't think so.... Can't wait to see her charge statements...

 

make sure you view her financials and completely understand the law and your laws for your state before you agree to anything.

 

she's moving this at light speed for some reason... seems like she's intending to cover something up - or she wouldn't be in such a hurry.

 

kick her out!

 

since she wants the D that badly - make her move now! she hasn't considered your feelings in all of this - so give her what she's asking for - get her out. let her figure out her future - it's no longer your worry.

 

i agree with your stance on not going places with her... she's still trying to lie and pretend. she has another man - i guarantee it... probably at her work. you haven't been digging deep enough... or she's good at hiding things.

 

be absolutely sure she discloses everything before sining any papers. and don't take her separate debt as your own.

 

hugs