Different MM's yet such similar stories-coincidence or not?

[DCMNW]

Hi Everyone!

 

I've been coming to LS for a couple weeks now and I'm curious to get some opinions on how coincidental it is that all of our stories are so similar. I, like alot of OW here was involved with a MM who basically gave me this story:

 

-W told him she doesn't love him anymore and wants out of the marriage

-W hasn't touched him in months and they don't have sex

-W treats him badly, constantly yelling/cursing at him, etc.

-Thinks W might be mentally sick and needs help because of her crazy mood swings

 

I have seen multiple post here with MM who tell their OW some of the exact same things. I find it hard to believe that there is this "code" that all MM use on OW to manipulate them into falling for them because they feel sorry for them. I understand that some MM do actually do this. But isn't it possible that it could be MM that are actually in these sexless, loveless marriages that are prone to then get into an EA because they need to fill a void?

 

Not trying to stand up for MM that go outside the marriage for this instead of getting a D, but I just dont think that all these MM are manipulative and evil and know exactly what they are doing to get the OW hooked on them. I really think alot of these MM are confused and upset about the state of their marriages and look to the OW to help them feel better and give them the affection they arent getting at home.

 

Any thoughts?

[BB07]

Hi Everyone!

 

I've been coming to LS for a couple weeks now and I'm curious to get some opinions on how coincidental it is that all of our stories are so similar. I, like alot of OW here was involved with a MM who basically gave me this story:

 

-W told him she doesn't love him anymore and wants out of the marriage

-W hasn't touched him in months and they don't have sex

-W treats him badly, constantly yelling/cursing at him, etc.

-Thinks W might be mentally sick and needs help because of her crazy mood swings

 

I have seen multiple post here with MM who tell their OW some of the exact same things. I find it hard to believe that there is this "code" that all MM use on OW to manipulate them into falling for them because they feel sorry for them. I understand that some MM do actually do this. But isn't it possible that it could be MM that are actually in these sexless, loveless marriages that are prone to then get into an EA because they need to fill a void?

 

Not trying to stand up for MM that go outside the marriage for this instead of getting a D, but I just dont think that all these MM are manipulative and evil and know exactly what they are doing to get the OW hooked on them. I really think alot of these MM are confused and upset about the state of their marriages and look to the OW to help them feel better and give them the affection they arent getting at home.

 

Any thoughts?

 

It's all about justifications to do something that they know is wrong, the reasons (evil and manipulative vs confused and upset) don't really matter......it is what it is. If it quakes like a duck...it IS a duck.

 

In your post you are doing your own bit of justifying and you are implying that its not as bad if the guy is confused and upset vs evil and manipulative. Again........it's the SAME thing. A duck quakes like a duck!

 

Justification makes us all feel better when we are doing something we know we shouldn't. It allows us to lie to ourselves, tell ourselves that our case is special, different and it's outside the norm or else we wouldn't cross that line but it's all the same......the reasons why don't really matter. Again..........a duck still quakes like a duck.

[spice4life]

Whatever the case is, it is simply wrong to handle things this way. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou by saying that...my opinion comes from learning this lesson the very hard way. Not something I am proud of at all. I wasn't the married one in my situation, but it was the biggest most painful lesson I have ever learned. The truth is, if a person is not happy in their marriage then they need to "man up or woman up" and deal with it without turning to an outsider. And the outsider needs to do the same...they need to say no and not insert themselves in another person's relationship...period. It is just a bad thing to do no matter what part of the triangle you are. If a person is unhappy then express it to the partner they are committed to and resolve it one way or another by working on the relationship or getting out of it. I think the kids excuse is used a lot, but that does not fly with me. When I was in an unhappy marriage I got out of it and my children are fine. They realized that people do not have to stay together if they are truly not a match and are unhappy. And most importantly, they saw that life does go on and everyone can end up happy.

 

My point is, if a MM or MW is not happy, then they need to do deal with it in a an adult manner to resolve their issues. Cheating is NOT the answer and helping someone else cheat is DEFINITELY not the answer. I will never put myself in that position again...it's simply not healthy. if you are not happy in a marriage or married the wrong person, own it and get out. Don't beat yourself up because a lot of people have made the same mistake and have gone on to live happy fulfilling lives.

 

Just my two cents.

[DCMNW]

BB- Totally agree that they are justifying their actions. I guess I just dont think all MM are being malicious and lie about the state of their marriage to get the OW to fall for him. Although just because its not malicious and purposely hurtful doesnt make it okay to have an affair either though and I understand that.

 

Spice4life- I agree! They do need to man up and either fix their marriage or get out instead of having an affair!

[dreamingoftigers]

It's all about justifications to do something that they know is wrong, the reasons (evil and manipulative vs confused and upset) don't really matter......it is what it is. If it quakes like a duck...it IS a duck.

 

In your post you are doing your own bit of justifying and you are implying that its not as bad if the guy is confused and upset vs evil and manipulative. Again........it's the SAME thing. A duck quakes like a duck!

 

Justification makes us all feel better when we are doing something we know we shouldn't. It allows us to lie to ourselves, tell ourselves that our case is special, different and it's outside the norm or else we wouldn't cross that line but it's all the same......the reasons why don't really matter. Again..........a duck still quakes like a duck.

 

Where are all of these quaking ducks coming from?:lmao:

 

OH NO, we are having a DUCK QUAKE!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Anyhow, I have said before that I don't think that that many men are the ones cheating on their wives.

 

 

There stories are so similar that I think that there are only 16 of them on the whole planet, they just really get around.

[BB07]

Obviously I need to learn how to spell a bit better.....should have been quacks. :laugh: Spell checks can't catch stupid.

[BB07]

Where are all of these quaking ducks coming from?:lmao:

 

OH NO, we are having a DUCK QUAKE!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Anyhow, I have said before that I don't think that that many men are the ones cheating on their wives.

 

 

There stories are so similar that I think that there are only 16 of them on the whole planet, they just really get around.

 

 

 

OK, I deserved that, I was writing my correction when you posted your post. :laugh:

 

If ducks start falling all around we are really in trouble.

[dreamingoftigers]

Obviously I need to learn how to spell a bit better.....should have been quacks. :laugh: Spell checks can't catch stupid.

 

It did paint a cute mental image of all of these little purple ducks (like duckduckgoose's avatar) quaking and causing a little earthquake in California.

[Breezy Trousers]

Hi Everyone!

But isn't it possible that it could be MM that are actually in these sexless, loveless marriages that are prone to then get into an EA because they need to fill a void?

 

Not trying to stand up for MM that go outside the marriage for this instead of getting a D, but I just dont think that all these MM are manipulative and evil and know exactly what they are doing to get the OW hooked on them. I really think alot of these MM are confused and upset about the state of their marriages and look to the OW to help them feel better and give them the affection they arent getting at home.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Keep coming back.

[Rose1977]

I don't think it's a coincidence at all. Most OW will not keep coming back if they hear the truth - that MM is happily married, but can't handle certan things like the way he is no longer #1 after kids, the change in frequency of sex after a long marriage, etc...

 

The thing is, if things were really that bad - crazy wife, no sex, etc... any rational person would pack up and get the he** out. And granted, some do. But there are plenty of OW on here who have had the same stories given to them over and over and stick around for months or years believing him when he says he will leave.

 

The MM - or MW- has to give the OW hope that he will leave and also make her feel sympathy for him so she will understand why he cheats on the wife but would never cheat on the OW if they end up together.

 

If you could hear the things my BF told the OW - you would think I was psychotic, made him beg for sex, never left the house, and belonged in an insane asylum.

 

I can tell you we had sex the night before he met with her and gave her this sob story and that I am very sane, with medical documents to prove it There have been many MM/MW who have come here admitting that they lied about the reality of their home lives to keep OW coming back - so they could have fun sex with someone but have a "real" life with someone else.

[BB07]

Great post Sad..........and I really appreciate the parts about us OW/OM needing to look within ourselves to find what made us vulnerable to the situation and what our own motivations were. IMO, until we own our own crap about the flaws we have that allowed us to go there, we can't get healthy ourselves.

[2sunny]

What begs examination is what is happening within US (the OP) to miss that glaring fault and buy into it all hook, line and sinker. It took me a while to figure out what was happening within me. The answer to that is different for everyone. Finding out what made us vulnerable to the situation is what's really important. The motives of the MM, not so much.

 

so true.

 

what is it that makes you (OP) think you need to settle or so little from a lying, cheating man?

 

he offers you a small percentage of what you could actually obtain from a healthy man.

 

why short change your best interest?

[Mimolicious]

Hi Everyone!

 

I've been coming to LS for a couple weeks now and I'm curious to get some opinions on how coincidental it is that all of our stories are so similar. I, like alot of OW here was involved with a MM who basically gave me this story:

 

-W told him she doesn't love him anymore and wants out of the marriage

-W hasn't touched him in months and they don't have sex

-W treats him badly, constantly yelling/cursing at him, etc.

-Thinks W might be mentally sick and needs help because of her crazy mood swings

 

I have seen multiple post here with MM who tell their OW some of the exact same things. I find it hard to believe that there is this "code" that all MM use on OW to manipulate them into falling for them because they feel sorry for them. I understand that some MM do actually do this. But isn't it possible that it could be MM that are actually in these sexless, loveless marriages that are prone to then get into an EA because they need to fill a void?

 

Not trying to stand up for MM that go outside the marriage for this instead of getting a D, but I just dont think that all these MM are manipulative and evil and know exactly what they are doing to get the OW hooked on them. I really think alot of these MM are confused and upset about the state of their marriages and look to the OW to help them feel better and give them the affection they arent getting at home.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Because it is the oldest trick in the book and yet there are sooooooooooooo many people who chose to fall for it. Talk is cheap.

[Owl]

Here's something to consider...

 

I realize you don't believe that they're lying, but at the same time, you acknowledge that all of their stories sound remarkably the same.

 

They sound the same because people instinctively know what will work in gaining them sympathy, in getting them "in" with the other person.

 

They paint the picture that they know will WORK in getting them to their goals...of starting an affair with the other person that they're talking to.

 

Pretty much that plain and simple.

 

It's not rocket science. Sure, some people are in a bad place for real...but that still doesn't truly give them a valid reason for doing what they're doing either.

 

But...it makes a pretty good sounding rationalization, doesn't it?

[Holding-On]

Here's something to consider...

 

I realize you don't believe that they're lying, but at the same time, you acknowledge that all of their stories sound remarkably the same.

 

They sound the same because people instinctively know what will work in gaining them sympathy, in getting them "in" with the other person.

 

They paint the picture that they know will WORK in getting them to their goals...of starting an affair with the other person that they're talking to.

 

Pretty much that plain and simple.

 

It's not rocket science. Sure, some people are in a bad place for real...but that still doesn't truly give them a valid reason for doing what they're doing either.

 

But...it makes a pretty good sounding rationalization, doesn't it?

 

well put.

It may not be that most MM walk around intellectually planning it all out (at least not the first affair). It is simply that this approach, among the many interactions they are having daily with women, works with many of the women who are in an emotional place to become the OW. Play it up a little bit, get more sympathy and attention, and repeat into the loop.

 

Eventually you start liking this attention, it feeds your MM ego and so you feed into what makes the OW happy (whatever she seems to want to hear). It leads to an EA. Leads to a PA and voila!

 

And it does seem to me that this sets up the MM. If you complain about things you are mean ol' wifey, right? You would be trying hard NOT to be this person described to you (probably not consciously).

Edited April 28, 2011 by Holding-On

[Spark1111]

well put.

It may not be that most MM walk around intellectually planning it all out (at least not the first affair). It is simply that this approach, among the many interactions they are having daily with women, works with many of the women who are in an emotional place to become the OW. Play it up a little bit, get more sympathy and attention, and repeat into the loop.

 

Eventually you start liking this attention, it feeds your MM ego and so you feed into what makes the OW happy (whatever she seems to want to hear). It leads to an EA. Leads to a PA and voila!

 

And it does seem to me that this sets up the MM. If you complain about things you are mean ol' wifey, right? You would be trying hard NOT to be this person described to you (probably not consciously).

 

About the bolded: great point, HO!

 

If you complain or demand more of his time, or have expectations to see and be with him daily, like a regular relationship, you, too, become the mean old wife!

 

Maybe, in his confusion, he chose you specifically because he sensed your vulnerability. Think about that. Most women, when a man begins to complain of his wife or his marriage, thinks YUCK! So classless.

 

Then he hooked you with your own sympathy for his supposed miserable marriage, and then you became emotionally entrenched because it now empowers you to try and save him from his unhappiness by being the better partner, the recuer, the better woman.

 

The only question you need to ask yourself is why did I need to do that; rescue a sad man and make him happy?

 

In therapy, we have learned that being a rescuer IS empowering to the needy, and rescuing another is a diversion from rescuing YOURSELF from your own unhappiness or neediness.

 

PS: Almost 95% of MM will try to reconcile with their spouse when caught in an affair. SO how truly terrible is that marriage? Not so bad, I would guess.

 

Also, read up on triangle dynamics. Welcome to LS!

 

If only the two of you could escape his entrenchment

[Holding-On]

About the bolded: great point, HO!

 

If you complain or demand more of his time, or have expectations to see and be with him daily, like a regular relationship, you, too, become the mean old wife!

 

Maybe, in his confusion, he chose you specifically because he sensed your vulnerability. Think about that. Most women, when a man begins to complain of his wife or his marriage, thinks YUCK! So classless.

 

Then he hooked you with your own sympathy for his supposed miserable marriage, and then you became emotionally entrenched because it now empowers you to try and save him from his unhappiness by being the better partner, the recuer, the better woman.

 

The only question you need to ask yourself is why did I need to do that; rescue a sad man and make him happy?

 

In therapy, we have learned that being a rescuer IS empowering to the needy, and rescuing another is a diversion from rescuing YOURSELF from your own unhappiness or neediness.

 

PS: Almost 95% of MM will try to reconcile with their spouse when caught in an affair. SO how truly terrible is that marriage? Not so bad, I would guess.

 

Also, read up on triangle dynamics. Welcome to LS!

 

If only the two of you could escape his entrenchment

 

Thanks Spark. I joined the exact same month you did though.

 

I was using "you" in the plural sense (drat our confusing English language!).

 

My MM had a different story for me. It was a tragic tale wherein his beautiful beloved wife had lost her libido due to pharmecuticals she needed to function. How could he ask more of her when he wanted her to continue to be well? But this particular pull worked really well on me.

 

I think that MM started to open up to me and simply read my reactions. If he started saying anything negative about his wife my body language was probably indicative that I was not as sympathetic (or perhaps I pointed out her POV/took her side or who knows, the initial conversations I was not paying attention). If he talked about monogamy hurting him while he loved his wife and missed her I was.

I was also sympathetic to the BW having trouble sleeping and loss of libido from that because I had gone through a horrible case of insomnia myself and felt that having the pressure/guilt to give energy to your husband on top of it all would be really hard.

 

Sorry to T/J but in a nutshell (complete with lots of emoticons!):

I was an MOW. I am in an open marriage. My fog was quite thick to say the least. For I wished for this fairytale ending where he and I got to have a romance and she was free of the burden of, er, servicing him.

 

Strangely it took a very very long time for him to ask his wife. During that time I was on this board because my poly forum really wasn't helpful in getting the monogamous person's POV and because, until he told his wife, I was the OW in the traditional sense (without the fornicating part).

 

Anyway, BW said no way and things were very awkward between me and MM until he retired from the field I work in a couple of years later.

 

So I learned my lesson. Do not interfere with the monogamous! No matter how much they claim monogamy is hurting them at whatever particular moment.

[Rose1977]

About the bolded: great point, HO!

 

 

 

 

LOL. All I saw was HO in huge letters when I looked at this and thought you were starting trouble Spark

[DCMNW]

Sadintexas- great post. I agree that these MM have no coping mechanisms and don't know how to deal with their marital problems. For my MM, he realized a few months into the EA that he needed to deal with his sh*t on his own and not hide from it anymore. He couldn't give me what I wanted at the time (a real relationship) and needed to figure out with a clear head whether he was going to be able to fix his M or end it. And yes I need to figure out why I let myself get into this toxic situation, I guess I felt like he "needed" someone while he was going through a rough time. I truly felt so sorry for him and wanted to "make it better".

 

Owl- It's not that I dont believe they are lying. I think alot of them do lie. I just dont think every single MM lies and tells the same exact story to every OW. I think alot of the time its the MM's that are truly going through a rough patch in their marrage that end up turning to an OW to fill a void. Doesn't make it right though obviously.

 

Spark- felt the same way about not wanting to be like "the mean wife". I always felt scared to tell him my feelings or say when I was upset with something because he would compare me to her. Actually thats when things eventually ended, he said you know I already get this at home from her, I dont need this from you too. It hurts because I'm like I have feelings too and I shouldnt be afraid to express them!

[Flabbergaster]

Regardless of what a MM's issue is, whether he is truly in a bad M, whether he is a serial cheater looking for fun, whether he is broken inside himself, doesn't really matter. We spend so much time analyzing what's happening in the M and whose fault it is, and defending the actions of the MM when in reality, he comes to us with the glaring fault of not being able to deal with his $hit.

 

A healthy person confronts his problems and works to resolve them. He doesn't hide from them. He doesn't deceive people to muddle through. He doesn't use other people for his gain (in this case both women).

 

Speaking as an xMM...I agree with Sad.

 

To the OP...

The reason that the same archetypes keep coming up is because in general these are the types that will cheat, rather than divorce or stay faithful, in the face of adversity.

 

Now about these types...I agree with Sad; a healthy person would confront their problems directly.